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november_gw

unhappy with our design/build firm

18 years ago

We're doing a first floor remodel, incl. kitchen, and we signed an expensive design contract with a D/B firm. The contract specifies that we will receive planning documents, extensive pricing work, construction documents, and permits. Well, the pricing was extensive, all right - way, way over our budget, which we were very clear about. This current number is $100k over their initial bid.

Now we want to complete the design contract but not sign a build contract with them. I've spoken to other reputable builders who say that D/B is known to be really expensive, and they can do it for less. I wish we'd learned this in January.

I'm sure this has happened to others here - was it hard to "break up" with the design firm? Were there contract problems? I'm already fed up, and the project is far from being started.

Comments (7)

  • 18 years ago

    What does your contract say about ownership of the design if you terminate the contract or choose not to proceed after the design phase?

  • 18 years ago

    it says "at the conclusion of this contract, the owner will own the construction drawings and construction document set for the sole purpose of renovating the property." I think this is why it was a more expensive contract than some others - there were several firms that had cheaper design phases but that didn't give us ownership of the plans.

    Since we own everything at the end, so I think we could hand over the plans to another builder. Doing that will be very awkward, but I don't think illegal (we will probably have a lawyer review it anyway).

    I don't know what I'm worried about - I just have an uneasy feeling. But even if we didn't own the plans, how could they stop us from renovating our house in a particular way?

  • 18 years ago

    That's why we never went with D/B firms also for our total house remodel. After interviewing several of them, they all were coming out about 80-100K more than the traditional GC/architect/KD route bids were were also getting.

    D/B give you everything under one roof, and they can guarantee you'll never go over budget. But they set their fees high to safeguard that, and you definitely pay for the convenience and security.

    I would re-examine your contract with the D/B firm, it might even be worth the expense (probably around $300-500) to see a contract lawyer. If you're this uneasy at this point, imagine how you'll be feeling down the line.

  • 18 years ago

    We had a contract with a design firm and, like you, the costs went way over the contracted amount. The worst thing was that during design we kept asking for an invoice, but went nearly 4 months without their sending one. Quite a shock when the final invoice came in at 250% over contracted amount.

    We needed our lawyer to resolve our situation. What it came down to for us is the lack of timely invoicing. That's what determined our outcome.

  • 18 years ago

    You seem to jumping several steps ahead which could create a bigger problem than you already have.

    The best action in cost escalation situations is to meet with the design-builders, explain your predicament, and ask what they can do to remedy the problem at no additional cost to you. Be sure to put everything in writing, even send them your notes from the meeting. If they cannot remedy the problem to your satisfaction, then you should ask them to propose a way for you to seek help from others and let you out of any remaining contract obligation. Obviously, that settlement would allow you to use the design in whatever form is fair to both parties.

    If you find negotiations with the builder to be difficult consider hiring an architect to help you. This is one of the things they are pretty good at and bringing a lawyer into a problem solving meeting can sometimes knock the process off track.

  • 18 years ago

    We have gone through a similar nightmare here. Planned an extensive remodel/addition of our small cape in MA and originally went with a very reputable and expensive DB firm. We started the never ending journey almost 2 years ago and our house should have been done last year this time. The design phase was dragged out so long (meetings w/"project manager", meetings w/kd etc)that by the time it was complete and we had our contract it was 2 weeks before the "break ground" date! I know now that they thought they had us over a barrell and that we would have paid whatever it took to get the job done because they also knew that we had tried for a year prior to get the work done. LONG STORY...anyway. The contract did not include alot of what we had discussed at our many meetings and the proposed budget was so far away from the agreed upon amount that we ended up firing the firm and essentially starting over. One of the many problems with a DB firm is that they could have more than one architect employeed and in our case we got the guy right out of school(of course we didn't know that when we hired them)Unfortunately, aspects of the design never worked for us but we were told it was the only solution. Your know being an older house and all... They also tried,unsuccessfully I might add, to prevent us from using the plan that we paid thousands for but unfortunately in the end we had to pay another architect to get the plan right.
    If you are happy with your plans and there is a clause that states that you are the owner of the plans then there should be no problem. As I said, our DB firm tried to prevent us from using ours but they were not successful. Remember too it is expensive for them to follow through with a suit and a court of law would have a difficult time finding in the firms favor especially since you paid for the documents and it sounds like the contract clearly states that you own them.
    Also,When we had other builders look at our plans the DB Firm had created a MONSTER that was difficult for any GC to read. It seemed there was alot of unnecessary and expensive work detailed in the original plan that was easily drilled down by the new architect.
    HAPPY ENDING...almost. We are in the middle of our renovation with a great builder and a plan that meets our needs. It is still over budget but that goes with the territory. We hope to be back in our new digs by the end of the summer. We'll see. :)

  • 18 years ago

    It should not be possible for an "architect" to be "right out of school". A graduate must work 3 or more years in an office and pass the state registration exam and these requirements must be consistent with NCARB's nationwide standards.

    There are no "unregistered" architects. "Architect" is a professional title, not a generic job description. Inappropriate use of the title or description including "architectural designer" is considered fraud in most states.

    I bring this up to point out that using terms and titles inaccurately is one of the big problems in home design and construction. Most of the "architects" mentioned on this forum turn out to have had no professional training.

    Building a home is a big commitment in time, energy, and money. If an you choose to not hire personal professional representation, you must pay careful attention to what a design/builder tells you and question everything. They may pretend to represent your interests but their conflict of interest is obvious and absolute.

    At any rate, don't fire a builder before investigating all possibilities for a fair settlement. Carefully consider the cost of legal fees and time delays.