girl friend.... Why haven't you contacted a lawyer????? A letter would probably move things along.... In addition, I would inform them that I will put the word out about their shabby work ethic..... In fact, I would think that if they sold something to someone else that you have a receipt for that would constitute THEFT!!!!!!!!!! There is not excuse for them losing your tile and I would make sure they pay for it, and in fact, I would ask for FULL resitution to replace the tile with the same quality as the original. As for them and their accounting.......Again, a letter from a lawyer might quicken things. Good luck with it all. I feel for you with all of the things that have happened. I hope your DS is doing better. Will continue to keep him in my prayers.

Screw the lawyer. I'd be going to the sheriff. You're right. To take your money for a specific item, sell it out from under you, not tell you, and keep the money-- that's most certainly fraud. Even if they offer you something else instead, it's still what's known as bait and switch, which is also illegal. I would send them a certified letter demanding all outstanding monies to be paid in full within 72 hours, or charges will be pressed. Even bankruptcy won't clear this. At the very least, they'll have to come to you and try and make some sort of arrangement to pay you back, or when the sheriff comes knocking, they won't have a leg to stand on.

I agree with dixiechick - I think you should talk to a lawyer and/or the state Attorney General's office - they usually have a consumer fraud division - but frankly I think this sounds more like theft than fraud - you paid for something and they sold it to someone else!

Oh good gravy...what was I thinking...our neighbor is an attorney in the AG's office! I'll give her a call.

Why haven't I contacted a lawyer? They have six tiles which compromise the deck of my tub. They're very special tiles, and not available anywhere, and I do mean ANYWHERE without an extensive wait on backorder. They also have (or said they did) my ten boxes of travertine. The match to that is backordered until June everywhere (believe me I tried) so I wanted to give them a chance to come clean, deliver and move to the next step before I started any legal processes just in case we'd get those tiles. Today that all ended in some difficult conversations with the owners. I also hoped not to have to dig up all the paperwork while I was trying to do 300 other things this week...but that's the way it goes. We have a fabulous attorney and he'll get right on it, but I never see him without all of my ducks in a row (because he's freaking expensive!)

I'll call the AG first and then she can tell me if I should call the police on it (or she'll do it). The police would be kind of fun...given the situation. They deserve some cuffs and a night in jail. They've stressed the hell out of me!

I may seem like a sweet little thing...but if you screw me...you are playing with fire. I've now lost my sense of humor and want to see them pay me every red cent they owe me! Grrrrr

Sorry to be a little negative here and it is water under the bridge so to speak, but didn't you have any reservations when they told you they couldn't meet the payroll???!!

first thing you do is as soon as you have the time, you and a few intimidating-looking friends march in there with all your paperwork and ask very politely that they turn over everything that you've paid for RIGHT NOW.

get it all. load it into your cars/trucks, and take it home. store it in your garage, basement, wherever you can.

THEN....go back with your receipt for the granite/marble (and anything else you paid for that they didn't let you take) and explain very nicely that you would like a full cash refund.

do not leave until they give you one. tell each person that says they "can't do that" that you'd like to speak to their boss. until you get the owner of the company. if the owner's not there, ask the employee to call the owner. ask for the owner's phone number and tell them you'll be happy to call yourself.

squeaky wheel. the best way to address this stuff is to get in people's faces. not confrontationally, not rudely, but nicely. politely. but also persistently. make it very clear that you will not go away until you get what you are entitled to.

stick to your guns. if they say they can't do it now, tell them you'll wait. keep looking at them, expectantly. hover. every time a customer comes in, politely ask if they're now ready to refund your money for the granite you paid for that they sold to someone else. strike up conversations with customers and tell them what happened. but not angrily or rudely. assume an incredulous tone.

do not accept a check. cash or a refund to your credit card.

good luck. no one deserves this kind of treatment.

Fern, I'd already paid for everything when that happened except for some labor on tile cutting work. That's what the money was for, and I did owe it to them.

We own a very large company...there have been years when it's been that tight that a call or two on accounts has made payroll. While we're not in that circumstance now, it's not uncommon for businesses to hit a tight patch here and there when they have to float inventory. Not everyone pays in full (ok maybe they're smarter than me LOL). I've also been a commercial banker, and I've seen many a company run tight. It's not unusual in businesses like this. Perhaps it's not the best way for them to manage their money...but it's reality, and I'm not in love with the idea, but remember...I didn't get that call until all materials were paid for.

At that point I asked for delivery because my senses did pick up on concerns. I got most of it, but not all of it, and then they started avoiding me.

Ed, thanks :) I actually did that the day before yesterday. The problem is that they don't have the inventory in hand. I believe that they never did...they just took my money and ran. Today the tile they said was going to be in on a boat this week, is now "fedex ground" and due next Friday. We do a great deal of shipping in our business...what this actually means is they never ordered the tile, maybe they placed an order today, but not until I mentioned the fraud word did they make that effort.

I'm not sure if it's worth my time to go next friday or not. I'm concerned it would lead to violence actually, (on their part) so I'll talk to my attorney about that.

I'm talking to the owner now, actually both owners. The call that prompted the response today (they tried to make me happy with the fedexed bs) was to the whimpy owner, and when I mentioned that he needed to take ownership of the problem and deal with it by the end of the day so I wouldn't have to pursue other avenues...well that was pretty much the end of any hope. He had his brother call me back because he's to much of a girl to do it himself. (Ok that was unfair, but I'd say that in court too) :oP

They made the choice...I guess we'll go down the hard road.

I am beyond frustrated, but honestly, I can afford to fight them over this, and I will. It's the principal of the thing. They'll probably go out of business...I think they run that tight, and others will suffer, and that sucks too. But I suppose that others are probably already having problems with them, and this might save others from the same fate. Whatever...I'm lucky I can afford to fight and still get my counters. I should count that blessing and go on I guess.

I'm tired...this is no fun. Who the heck talked me into this remodeling crap anyhoo? Which one of you???? :oP

I agree with Bill and that a call to the sheriff and your lawyer is warranted. It just so happens that I have learned a lot about this type of situation recently (ask me how I know !), and I know you are in Alaska, but there must be a similar law on the books to this one in California ...

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/484b.html
484b Any person who receives money for the purpose of obtaining or
paying for services, labor, materials or equipment and willfully
fails to apply such money for such purpose by either willfully
failing to complete the improvements for which funds were provided or
willfully failing to pay for services, labor, materials or equipment
provided incident to such construction, and wrongfully diverts the
funds to a use other than that for which the funds were received,
shall be guilty of a public offense and shall be punishable by a
fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by imprisonment
in the state prison, or in the county jail not exceeding one year,
or by both such fine and such imprisonment if the amount diverted is
in excess of one thousand dollars ($1,000). If the amount diverted
is less than one thousand dollars ($1,000), the person shall be
guilty of a misdemeanor.

I am most definitely not a lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt ...

Very sorry that your have to go in there and kick *ss.

Igloo - everytime it seems it can't get worse, it does with these crooks. I feel so badly for you that you have to deal with all this stress and aggravation. You may need to sic your attorney (and the local law enforcement) on these guys and then just take some time off and enjoy your boy(s). Seriously, girl, you need a break.

I read the other threads and so had my hopes up for you today. Sorry that they didn't step up to the plate. When you do get to the legal details, be sure you ask to be compensated for the hand-painted tiles that no longer match anything.

It may be all for the best, however. I know you secretly want to go with alligators to match your new shades, instead of roosters ;-P

Hang in there,
Judy

I really am not trying to end up as the expert! You are in this business so you already know most of this, but I hope someone can benefit, somewhere.

1. The difference between breach of contract and fraud is the intent of the promisor at the time the promise was made -- if I intend to sell you a widget but run out of money, my widget supplier is on backorder, or any other excuse you've heard, it's probably "only" breach of contract. Fraud is hard to prove for that reason. In most states (YMMV), you can get punitive damages for fraud, but not breach of contract, hence the difference.

2. Anyone who relies on the widget being golden yellow and special orders golden yellow tiles to match may also be entitled to additional, consequential damages. Especially if they told the widget fabricator about the stuff being ordered/made to match. And if you can't get the golden yellow widget anywhere in your state and have to order from another state far away, and have that replacement 400 lb slab of widget shipped, the shipping (and, maybe, time and travel expenses) is another item of consequential damage. Please mention the phrase "consequential damage" to a lawyer and watch her greedy eyes light up. In my state, the homeowner might get the consequential damages for breach of contract but there are some very specific rules on what you can and can't do in case of fraud, which is why you need a local lawyer (expert in igloo defects?). BTW, you don't have to choose between fraud and breach of contract at the beginning -- you can claim both.

3. I know nothing about criminal law.

4. If you wish to go this route (which may be very effective in a small community), bad word of mouth is incredibly effective -- but there is a huge difference between "They sold my widget to someone else" (true statement of fact) and "They will sell your widget to someone else and steal you blind" (maybe defamation).

5. Stuff you already know...keep your documents, note your phone calls, etc. There are a lot of fine points that a good local atty will pick up on (atty fee clause in contract?) but I don't want to be giving out legal advice over the internet to someone in another state. Again, please consult with someone local to you (criminal and/or civil).

6. Good luck and hugs!!!

Igloochick, having gone through a fraudulent cabinet deal, I have some very specific advice. I'm with Bill: call the sheriff and AG. Also, the person that advised you to go get everything you paid for up to now, I would NOT do that because at the end of the day, if you end up in court, the judge will put a value on those items you retrieved and possibly make you eat it. If they don't deliver, then they are the crooks.

I was under such a time crunch, I went ahead and kept the cabinet boxes and modified them thinking the judge would just make him redo my doors like I ordered. I was wrong. He put a $10,000 value on the boxes and I didn't need them. WHY did he do this? Because I had the boxes in my possession. Had I removed them from my home, then I would have gotten full value returned to me.

If your state has laws on the books against fraud, then the Attorney General will enforce the law. The sheriff will arrest the crooks.

FWIW, my crooked cabinet maker was incorporated and changed his business name by the time we got to court. I did win, but got no financial compensation because the business was incorporated and now defunct. I only got the fictitious lein off my property.

Keep us all posted. I'm sorry you're going through this.

Oh i-chic, it just keeps getting worse and worse with your granite/tile situation! I was hoping I'd check in here and read some good news, but I guess that's not the case...

Wishing you luck and hope this gets sorted out to YOUR satisfaction very soon.

Have they already filed for bankruptcy?

I would tell them you are contacting the state attorney general's office-and then do if you need to-this seems like the fastest way to get them to jump. Did you contact your neighbor yet?

The first warning sign should have been there not being able to meet payroll without your payment.

That said, I am with bluekitobsessed - I think proving fraud would be very difficult to do. You have to think about what outcome you want before proceeding. While it may feel good to go to the authorities and try to press charges, will that get your money and whatever tile they are holding back the soonest (if at all)? It may draw things out for a lengthy time. I would personally consult with your attorney before taking action Perhaps you can use the threat of criminal action to get them to refund your money and materials.

And if there is a risk of the company filing bankruptcy, then a whole host of other issues enter the equation.

You really need to talk to your attorney to come up with the best course of action for an expedient return of your money / material

Ok, I can help with this one.
1) what do you have in writing? Get out your contracts. All changes and issues should be memorialized in letters or emails for future reference. If you don't have this, don't panic.
2) If no written contract, get your paperwork together showing when all payments were made (charge card? check? cash receipt (hopefully not- cash leaves little paper trail).
3) Call their phone numbers, check place of business, do everything you can immediately, on the sly, to confirm they are still open and operating. As earlier poster said, the "can't meet payroll", while it happens with small businesses, is the red flag to make you say," Hey, if you can't meet payroll, you aren't going to sell off the slabs that I have already paid for to help do it, are you?" next time this happens.
4)The police idea is helpful depending on how big a city you live in. From personal experience, the ones where I live would tell you "civil matter" and go off to chase the guys with guns.

What we have here is a breach of contract. Oh yes get a lawyer, or you can go to small claims for a few thousand.
5) the big question is, what does this guy have that would settle a lawsuit? If nothing, my suggestion for the entire thing would be go to the stone yard and make them give you other stone to the value you had (would demand more, personally for your hassle.)

Hope this helps. BTW, my .02 is usually .04 or .06! hehheh

I meant to pass on some advice about the granite you thought you might like for your sons bathroom. My aunt has Palladio which has big circles like that and her edges are all wavy because the stone hardness varies so much it's very difficult to get a smooth edge. She thought it was her fabricators fault (and I'm sure it was partially) but I was in a restaurant that had the same granite as hers and the edge on that was all wavy too. So, if you choose the granite you posted a picture of, make sure you have an excellent fabricator who knows how to grind an edge on stone like this. Good luck, igloo.