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Contractor gave us price....I'm having a heart attack now....

17 years ago

Ok, we have been interviewing contractors for a remodel job. We just had the first contractor to give us some numbers. He did not break anything down except what the custom cabinet maker cost is. We are taking down two walls (non loading bearing), new paint, new hardwood floors in the great room/kitchen/hall/master bedroom, new kitchen cabinets & granite, redoing the 2 bathrooms. He came back with $96,000 (including the cabinets)!!!!! The cabinets were $26,000. I feel like this is way too much for the total remodel job. The house is only 1500 square feet. Is this price reasonable? We are located near the Blue Ridge Mountains in North Carolina. Shouldn't he give us a break down of everything? I'm new to the contractor business, so any help/advise would be great!

Comments (12)

  • 17 years ago

    Actually I was thinking it is pretty reasonable. It depends I guess on the cost of hardwood, granite, other things that you choose for the kitchens and bathroom but it doesn't seem that far out of line. I've heard of kitchens costing $60k-$80k (and up, really) on their own, so when you add in the bathrooms, hardwood in other areas, taking down walls, etc. it doesn't seem shocking.

    Which of course doesn't mean you want to pay that much. Maybe you can do some of the work yourself? As far as I can tell some contractors do itemized breakdowns but most don't. In our remodel project we got an itemization of allowances for things like cabinets, granite, windows, etc. but the rest of the amount was "included in bid" and not broken down specifically.

  • 17 years ago

    Don't expect a price breakdown unless you ask for one. Are the bathrooms going to have tile everywhere, or tub surrounds? What level of finishes for the plumbing fixtures was specified? Does it include all the little things like mirrors and towel bars?

    In your kitchen, did it include appliances? Backsplash? Fixtures? Is the hardwood pre-finished?

    Only you can decide if what he's offering is worth $96K to you. For what you describe, I'd do the work myself... but probably be getting divorced when it was over. And I'd probably still spend over $50,000 and spend 6 months of nights and weekends getting it done.

    Some very serious advice though: State a hard completion date in the contract, with financial incentives and penalties around the date. If he wants $96K for the job, offer $90K, with a $6K bonus for on time completion and a $4K penalty for more than 30 days over (but do allow for cabinet lead times not to affect the bonus and penalty, and specify what must be done to be considered complete).

  • 17 years ago

    Speaking as someone who's been through the good, the bad and the ugly in terms of remodeling:

    I'd definitely demand an itemized quote and a written contract,specifying everything that is to be done and establishing a delivery as well as payment schedule.

    You pay as the work gets done (or each phase of it). Not before.
    In most states the law allows the contractor to charge up to 1/3 upfront, for material and payroll, so it would be very difficult to get more than that from me, without explaining and itemizing.

    I'd get quotes for more than one contractor before signing up for anything. Ask neighbors, friends and coworkers for referrals. Check all the bidders for compliance with state certification, licenses, insurance etc...(Most official state websites allow you to check contractors over the internet - go to your local government site and search for words like contractor or consumer protection)

    Ask the contractors for references and actually check them.
    Check the local BBB chapter to see if there is any complaints filed against that company and try to find out how many years they've been in business.

    Most home improvement companies go out of business in about 5 years. So if the company is in business longer than that, chances are they know how to conduct business and will be there for many years still to honor the warranty they give you on their services.

    The services you are contracting, depending of the finishing materials, fixtures, embellishments and appliances used, might be well worth the $96K. I also found out that the "cheap" can cost you more down the road. Unreasonably low quotes, might be a sign that the contractor is either about to deliver a lousy job or has no intention to deliver it at all.

    However, no one would be able to get 96K out me, without a very, beyond reasonable doubt good reason.

  • 17 years ago

    Even without specifics for the work you are describing it's sounding fairly reasonable to my California ears. There's no way to know without a lot more specifics including what "redoing two bathrooms means". However, this is why you talk to multiple contractors. You will get a better idea about how much things cost. You can also ask how much very pieces of the job may cost. You might decide that $5,000 for instance might make it not worth it to remove a wall (as an example). I had my own sticker shock with my remodel. What I thought I wanted was going to cost about twice as much as I had expected, so I had to scale it back.

    Cyfree mentioned that most states allow a contractor to charge up to a third up front. I don't know how common that is, but California law only allows 10% or $1,000 whichever is LESS. However, I would never, ever, ever let anyone I cared about in any state give a contractor more than 10% before work has even begun. The percentage paid needs to correspond roughly to the amount of work completed. You don't want your contractor to be more than about 10-15% "ahead" of you, if that much, at any time if you can avoid it.

    - Jim

  • 17 years ago

    When we first started our projects we wanted to remove a load bearing wall. One bid was $1500 and one was $600. We went with the $600. Structurally it's fine, but I bet the first one would have finished it out nicely. As it is, I'll be redoing the texture work and stained the beam recently for the look I wanted.
    I think attention to detail tends to dictate the price. We've done most of our own work, but hired for the big stuff. We didn't always go with the low ball prices, but when we did, we expected to do a lot of the finish work ourselves.

  • 17 years ago

    What increased value will your home have after the remodeling? Would you be ahead to move? Tear down and build ALL new?

  • 17 years ago

    Thanks for everyone's response!
    The home tax value is only about $150,000 so we don't want to put that much money into it! We want to stay under 50,000, which may be unrealistic. We have looked at new homes, but we love where we live! (only 3 mins from work!) When I say redo the bathrooms, I want to take out the fiberglass tubes and replace it with either marble or another fiberglass insert (I don't like the beige color that is currently in the bathrooms. The walls are non load supporting, which should be a little less expensive to remove. The current living room/kithen/dinning room all have wall paper, so this might be an issue with the sheetrock. I was just hoping for a smaller number when he came back with a price. All of the contractors we are interviewing have a very good reputation, I would rather pay a little more and get someone who I can trust.

  • 17 years ago

    I'm certainly no expert, but I'd think some of this would depend on the quality of what you want. For instance, do you need custom cabinets? How extensive are the bathroom remodels? Are you fixing them up cosmetically or moving things around structurally?

    Have you considered pricing some of those things out separately and seeing what they cost? Personally, I think that's what I would do. At least if you had quotes for some of those things, it would be easier to judge how fair that price was.

  • 17 years ago

    $26k for kitchen cabinets? As a benchmark, we spent $21k on our Kraftmaid cabinets and that got us a mid-range door style plywood sides, special glaze, crown molding, light rail, and a bunch of decorative end panels for a large kitchen (13x20) with an above average number of cabinets (100 square feet of counters, if that gives you an idea). You should be able to go way cheaper on them than $26k.

    As the others said, whether that's high (and it sure sounds high to me) depends on several things. One is the cost of materials, and you can work on picking things that aren't bank-breaking.

    I'd communicate your price shock to the contractor in a polite way, tell him it's more than you can spend, and ask for help figuring out where the big dollars are so you can shave the cost. That's a roundabout way of asking for a cost breakdown. He should then offer info like "the hardwood you want is $10k" and you can calculate a cost/square foot and see what you can do to find a cheaper one.

    Also, see what you can DIY. Taking out a non-LB wall isn't a big deal, nor is stripping wallpaper. See how much those sorts of things can save you. Involve your contractor in figuring out how to make it cheaper. And definitely get other bids.

  • 17 years ago

    One part of your last post jumped out at me, where you said "I want to take out the fiberglass tubes and replace it with either marble or another fiberglass insert." I'm not sure what you meant by tubes, so I'm assuming these are tub surrounds. If you haven't decided between marble and fiberglass then you're leaving an awful lot to the interpretation of the contractors bidding on the project. Marble and fiberglass are drastically different in both material and labor costs.

    It seems entirely conceivable to me that a remodel of a kitchen and two baths, with floor replacements and wall removal, could run into $90k in many areas of the country. If you only want to spend $50k then you should probably aim for a project that gets bid at $40k with the understanding that unexpected issues will crop up along the way and cost more money. With that in mind, I'd guess you'll be doing some combination of scaling the project back, choosing cheaper finish materials and DIYing some of the labor.

  • 17 years ago

    You are being a bit unrealistic as to the scope of labor indicated and costs. This is probably a low bid after looking at your description. Kitchen remodels without significant construction modification (no wall removal) run an average of 26K in the US. Bathrooms average 15K. You have two walls and a whole home's worth of flooring in that bid as well, and may have picked some materials that are not in line with putting in a home of the price range you've indicated. At least, a bid of 26K for cabinets would indicate that maybe you are shopping a bit over your level when it comes to home improvements appropriate to the value of your home. This maybe indicates the need for more homework on your part as to finish choices. We all have champagne tastes and very few of us have anything but beer budgets, and the media does a good job of convincing us we "must" have granite countertops and top of the line appliances or we aren't "keeping up with the Joneses". It's bull. Now, I've designed 80K kitchens for people in 200K homes, who had no problems spending that type of money on something they really really wanted, but it sounds as though you aren't comfortable with the numbers, so it's time to rethink your choices. It's also time to get the tools and skills to be able to DIY a good portion of your project. If you don't forsee yourself being able to acquire the basic skills to patch drywall after wallpaper removal for instance, then maybe it's time to rethink the suitability to your home of the project entirely, or moving.

  • 17 years ago

    A neighbor who was also an experienced realtor was a big help to me when we did some remodeling of a prior home. Since we both lived in what had been a 1950's development, AND she knew the market, she saved me from over-improving.

    Is your home typical of your neighborhood? Do homes there have marble bathrooms, or would cultured marble be fine? (I don't like marble anyway; it's too porous.) Do kitchens have hardwood or particle-board cabinets? Are floors tiled or is linoleum typical? Granite countertops or ???

    I'd talk with a realtor before deciding how much your remodeling will raise the value of your house. (Market value, not tax assessment.)