What an interesting question.

I don't know how small your house is, but in most small houses, there simply isn't room for two master baths.

What is your current set up? My partner never comes in the bathroom while I'm getting ready or going to the bathroom and vice versa. LOL. We have two and a half baths though so if one of us will be taking a while using the bathroom we just use one of the others, usually the full guest bath in the upstairs hallway.

It's a great idea though, if you can fit it in your house! You could always have one main master bath and then a half bath connected to the master bedroom to serve as a potty area, etc. There's all kinds of options! Have fun thinking about it/remodeling!

This is a new build, so I can choose to do whatever I want. And although we won't be building a huge home, somewhere around 1750 square feet, maybe slightly more, we don't care about building more than one bedroom into this house, though currently there is a sewing room planned that could double as a bedroom in a pinch. I'm more concerned about having a comfortable master bedroom and bathroom (for once), and with enough pantries and storage to sustain a self sufficient lifestyle. Don't give a hoot about "resale" either.

I honestly think there is a way to come up with two nice bathrooms that don't eat up much more square footage than one huge one that usually puts the toilet awfully far away. It would be nice to have the second bathroom close by so that I'm not forced to go to the other side of the house. Some people feel they need two sinks. I think we need two potties. There's a potty conflict sometimes!

Sandy, what I was trying to do in your plan was to create really two halves with both halves of the bath available for YOU to use as a compartmented master bath.

Yes, it can be done. And I can tell you, it can work very well. Even one part of the bath can be arranged in such a way that you can allow guests to use that half, but lock them out of YOUR OTHER HALF which is dedicated to the master suite only.

I know what I'm speaking about. That is the way we are doing our master suite up north. I will have to draw it out for you and then post it here.

But to explain:
On the main floor of our cape in Massachusetts, there is a bath already. The location defies description without drawing, so I won't explain until I upload the picture.
But it has a garden tub with a shower included. It has room for one sink in a small vanity. And it has a toilet.

When I had a small study destroyed to make our bedroom into a master suite, we halved the space to create a 6' wide x 8' deep walk in closet. The door to that closet is on my side of the bed.

On the other side of the bed, there is a doorway which goes to what is scheduled to become a small master bath. It will have only a walk in shower, a toilet, and a corner sink.

The location of the two baths is back to back. We will be installing a door in the hall between our bedroom and the original bath, so that it might be closed and locked if we have guests over. They will not have access to the master bath half of this combined bathing area.

BUT, and this is the important part, we can usually leave that door open to keep access to the bath with the tub, and it will function as one SPLIT master bath for us.

The nice part of it is, the original bath is accessed from the living room by a doorway into this tiny hall. What you'd CALL a hall, but it is such a small space there is nothing wasted. The hall is nothing but doorways. And there is no WALL space, only DOORS.

One side has the door from the living room.
At 90% angle is the door from the basement steps.
At 90% angle to that is the new door from our bedroom.
At 90% to that (or opposite the basement door) is the door to the original bath.

I figure this tiny hall, with just enough floor space to allow each door to swing clear and to walk through it unimpeded, is the strongest place to be in the event of a tornado or earthquake...neither of which are common to that area.

But if we want to, we can also lock the door from the living room into this hall way, and use it as an anteroom to the bath and have the entire space for our own uses. And very private too. No one but US will be accessing the basement stairs should we have company.

So now I've committed myself to drawing out this plan, on big paper, so I can take a picture of it and upload it for your perusal. Wish I could use the house plan drawing software, but later, not now. Too much on my mind to learn something new.

I don't have pictures, but I toured a home for sale that featured two bathrooms within the master suite. One was larger than the other. I also know someone currently renovating to a his/hers concept. You enter a private hall to the bedroom, and there's a bathroom on each side with the bedroom at the end.

I remember seeing a floor plan that had one master bath with two WC's, one on each side of the shower. DH thought it was brilliant.

1. Blue tub..replace blue plastic surround w/ white subway tile....replace all faucet/shower hardware...paint tub white or replace it.

2. Reverse door to hinge near tub, add locking door hardware
3. Take out laundry shute hole.
4. New vent and light..have one remote vent fan to serve both baths.
5. Replace old toilet, get 2 Amer.Standard Cadet 3 Compact one piece toilets, like in Mobile house.
6. Replace vanity and sink w/ 30" x 15"deep cab, StarGazer black Silestone quartz counter top w/ undermount sink. Remove old wall mount med cab, only mirror over sink. In-wall med cab new beside bathroom door.
7. 2 or 3 switches inside bath not outside in hall.GFCI double plug. Add plugs behind both toilets down low for future Toto washlet seats.
8. Put lock on door from L/R to make all bath area private for master. Add door in hall to close off bedroom and new bath from the other bath . Add bifold door to new master bath.
9. Floors probably hex tile, white with black centers. Both baths the same, BLACK AND WHITE COLOR SCHEME.
10 Glass block shower pony wall/divider. Walk in shower no curtain. Alcove for sitting in shower or setting shower products. Waterproof marine light fixtures in new bath. Shower tile same as rest of flooring, which will be the hex tile w/black centers.

I would LOVE to have his and hers. My dream house has a master bedroom and study on the main floor with one bath between them. Beside each room will be the sinks with a door leading into the shower/toilet room. I know it's a lot of doors but the ones from the rooms to the sinks will be pocket doors and probably wouldn't be used much. But dh gets the sink furthest away so his noise is furthest away from me while I'm sleeping, lol.

Hmmm....thanks so much!!! My brain is scrambled right now, so will look at all this again a little later.

ML, I'm going to print this out so I can study it while sitting on the couch.

I'd love two separate master baths and would do it if I could.

YES!! Separate baths if at all possible! My hubby seems to have the same attitude as yours, I think because he's the eldest of three boys--no sisters, so didn't learn early about privacy issues.

I like the idea of 'Jack-and-Jill' bathrooms--your own entry, sink and toilet, and a shared shower/tub.

We are lucky to have a master bath, but have to share a sink. When we redo the bathroom, I'd like to include a small pedestal sink (for him--I get the counter!)

some have a door on either side of headboard into sink/toilet area - joined in the center by big shower.

there was one or 2 on the bath forum.

woman's side often has tub also.

i just changed a few things on this mfg home layout. it was about 76 x 27. I chopped off about 20' and widened it by 5', making it about 56 x 32.

it might be a start for you to block in on graph paper and see what changes you can make to get it like you want.

I didn't put all the doorways in or any windows. added small bath and closet to the left of entrance and laundry/ sewing area to the right of it.

mobile homes are often about the same outside dimensions you listed so I went with one they had that was close.

I've been sitting with graph paper today, again, and again... I am getting really tired of this whole thing. It has literally sucked the joy out of life. It seems like since last fall, anything I wanted designed there was always something "wrong" with it. It either "didn't fit the norm", would ALWAYS leak, as in shed dormers to a loft, an architect that didn't listen, followed by the most recent Mr. Arrogant and Obnoxious, also know as the chauvenist p....Mixed in all this I've had builders, etc. tell me "You don't want a loft", or "you don't want....fill in the blank". At times it was almost like I wasn't sitting there, as the talk swirled around the room. But, oh boy, let's get you to write me a check. Doesn't matter if you like the house when you're done.

I can't fathom why people in this industry cannot come up with a simple layout. I can see where it is difficult for me, I am not a house designer. I do have common sense though. It's not like I am asking for something very complicated.

Anyway, I am not doing good right now. I've been through lots of things in my life. Difficult things. Including house builds, loss of loved ones, and troubled teenagers. Never have I ever felt this unhealthy, gained this much weight, or felt this despondant.

(((Sandy))) I understand completely. For two years we sat in a rent house stewing over developers not doing what they said they would do and an architect giving us the runaround. I would say step away and do something else for awhile, but if you are like me, it is always hanging over you.

Sandy, I am so sorry that this project has become so overwhelming again. It seemed that your husband's accepting that you needed your loft was going to make this project okay. I hope it gets better. Do you have any idea of what could help?

Sandy, I hope you will start feeling better about everything soon. I know EXACTLY how you feel. Every time someone comes for a quote etc. they tell me all ways I "don't" want to do something...one siding guy kept taking away my color options telling me they wouldn't work with my roof, the plumbers are acting like my simple project is rocket science (I think the more they do that the more they can charge :) and builders talk like I'm not around, until I ask them detailed questions about the structures...then they look at me weird and ask me if I know about stuff like that. Why do they think we're stupid?

I agree with marti8a, maybe let it rest for a little while. It is SO frustrating, and bathrooms are particularly bad. I like the idea of his and hers, but it does seem like a plumbing nightmare, expense-wise. Absolutely do whatever it is that YOU really want!

I hope things start looking up for you soon, after all there's no point in doing something if you don't enjoy it :)

Sandy I took pieces of our house and tweaked them around quickly in paint. This is not to scale but will work for all you are asking.

Make the rooms larger to fit about 50' by 36' give or take.

Your sewing room would be about 14 by 16.

There would be a door between kitchen and the long living room but I did not show it. The kitchen and living room need to be further apart.

The walls in the end of the living room part are NOT supposed to be there but I can not remove them as it is that way on my plan. Ignore them.

The small bath and laundry room in middle of house have just tiny hall space to it. There will be a door out laundry room to porch but my plan would have to be taken apart too much use your imagination here. Just flip laundry room side.

Your sewing room is next to kitchen with space between for that end of the house door and it looks like a hall but only as far as the walk in closet. You will need a space to store your sewing things.

THEN you will also have the his and hers bathrooms you want and you can add a door into the larger one on the toilet wall to go outside as you asked. Laundry it central and close to master bath with door to outside. And finally entry space is between dinning room and living room with your fourth door.The master bath,big one, needs to be moved over to square up that end of the house leaving more room in your living room.

Nothing exactly fits but it can give you an idea. There is lots of places to add windows all around.

Chris

Here is a link that might be useful: Plan for Sandy

I agree too - just put it out of your mind for a few days or weeks. it's all a swirl for you. that happens to me also and I just have to get away from what ever it is!

btw, would help if I'd posted the 'layout' I had...

ignore anything to the left of the looong red line cutting off the 'family room'. from there to the right is about the length you said you wanted. the 'L' on the upper right is for laundry and the 'S' (looks like a 5) is for sewing.

{{gwi:2073065}}

We always had his and hers. Me because I am more of a private person. Husband because he was a bit OCD, nothing existed on the counter and even shined all the chrome after using his.

Take some time and think about it. There has to be some existing house plans that you can look at, cut up, put together that will give those darn guys an idea of what you want. They really don't "see" our dream. Even little things I have to explain too many times to get what I want and there is always something that bugs me because a simple fix would have been the right way.

It is all about structure and if anything is different than the norm they just don't get it or consider being able to go there. I think they work under "keep it simple" so they don't get into trouble. Also, there are many clients who are just not forgiving and have probably ruined these guys for anything beyond the norm.

Hang in there. 1700 is a good size to work with.

Thanks everyone. I feel slightly better today, but still feel (and look) like I've been through a war zone. My husband is being very nice and said he already has the roof structure engineered for both a loft and a single story home.

The other thing he said was, after a set decision is made on the structure (single story or loft) that we can just throw a couple of rooms on the plans, enough to satisfy the county permit process, and start. Maybe he's correect in thinking some of it actually is easier to plan once the shell is up.

Craig sent a pretty strong e-mail to the obnoxious one, and he replied he'd have something else next week. My husband wrote the e-mail after reading all the responses I had gotten. Believe me, no man would have ever tolerated it. I am angry. I already told Craig I've written this guy off and he could do what he wants with him. I KNOW he won't come up with anything any good. Woman's intuition. I feel the guy is just plain stupid.

My question is this. How do I know what I want after being beat up on so much? It sounds like all of you ultimately knew how to sort that out. My mother, who lives in Upstate N.Y., feels in my heart I want a loft. All I know is I feel like a vegetable right now.

Maybe the baths could be one nice one off the master, and the second one outside the room, but close by. My husband is doing all the plumbing work, so all we'll have involved with the plumbing is purchasing then pipe.

Anyway, this vegetable needs a cup of coffee. See ya later.

Sandy

What I'd like to know is, what is the difference building a STORY AND A HALF house, and building one with a LOFT? Hmmm?

May I submit that you change your thinking from loft to half-story. I can see that if your hhouse roofline is a double ended gable structure that it would be natural to have a ceiling over the rooms at each end. That would be the master suite area, maybe with a small space for a sleeping area for guests if necessary, but also much storage under the lower parts of the roof, the only part closed off. Just a rail at the edge, not a wall. And a narrow walkway from there down the side of your view so you could clean any windows from that walkway, but it would end up at the kitchen end, over the kitchen and really be a balcony down there. high palladian windows in that end gable which faces NORTH, and gives light but never heat.
Since huge furniture moving up to either level would not be important, a spiral staircase can be mounted at any spot you like.

That way, I figure you could have open cathedral ceilings in the majority of your living room, and the study, which would be in the center of your house all the way through it from door to door. NO HALL, just VIEW. You could see from one through to the other.

And just how did the latest architect plan to finish overhead of the master suite? Open to the rafters? I don't think so. So what is so difficult about using that space beneath the roof at the places which will not have a cathedral ceiling?

Sandy, what I did for years, even as a child, was to do what I call "drifting." I'd lay down, and before I went to sleep, I'd imagine myself walking into a house....one that I was creating right there. What would I see. What did I WANT to see? And what would I expect to do next? Which way would I go to get to the kitchen...what path would that take and then when I went to the bedroom, would the bath be there close .....you get the idea.

I think you've been ignored way to long in this house design process. Sort of the way I felt about my first contractor, who only wanted to talk to DH and when I was gone he lopped a critical 10 inches off the width of my already tiny little bath...so much narrower that I had to really hunt to find a suitable sink for it.

You know what you'd like, but like me you don't know what is possible in construction...and so everything has its problems, even a solid roof with no openings, and windows which open and close or are fixed. But you cannot tell me that a woman with simple and reasonable desires for a small home cannot expect it to be built as she likes. I see that you've expended a lot of money AND effort, to the point of exhaustion and near nervous breakdown. What you need now is some R-E-S-P-E-C-T.....however you want to spell it.

If you do a half story at even one end, that might give you the area you need for your sewing room. Over your master suite. A spiral staircase keeping it accessible only from your bedroom would be fine, but limit the uses of the space in the future. Heck, in the corner by the western door would be great. Just walk down and see your lovely place.

Your right ML, I need (and deserve) respect. It's not like I'm some little dummy woman, but even if I was, I still deserve respect. Everyone does.

My husband just looked at me and said we need to take the sewing room, study, or whatever else it's called, totally out of the main equation. We are going UP with it. He said I never had my heart in a sewing outbuilding. I believe that's true. I DO want a nice garden shed though, with a large sink and potting area. Maybe some pet female goats there too.

Anyway, he is sending an e-mail to you know who.

We will keep the great room, and possibly the dining area open, with loft all above everything else. I also feel 10 ft. ceilings would be nice, since even our ceilings will be wood. The extra height should solve any closed in feel.

There are many advantages to the loft. By loft I mean that none of it will be walled off. It will have railings all around, and I saw a model that had wrought iron railings. It was stunning with the wood. If I can find a local fabricator, it should't be cost prohibitive.

If we make the east side of the loft with a long shed dormer, perhaps spanning the whole upper side, the windows would light up the whole lower area. East light is also delightful light, and not a huge heat issue. I would still want a small shed dormer on the west side so I could see my woods, but that would have to be small to mitigate heat.

This puts my sewing studio IN my house, but still gives me a sense of my own space, without being isolated. It gives us lots of storage space, a guest sleeping area (I could have a folding screen for those times), and my kitties will love it.

Should be easier making up the main floor layout now.

You know, this whole thing put my life on hold. I don't like that at all. I'm a flight instructor, and felt I needed to take flying out of the equation while going through this. Taking a love out of your life, even temporarily, makes for a not so happy person.

I do the "drifting" thing too. I can visualize doing things. I guess I'm not the one who is the vegetable. Apparently it's the house design people, because what they have been doing defies common sense.

Sandy I believe you totally missed the plan I put together for you. Chris

Here is a link that might be useful: Plan for Sandy

shades - you did what I did - used 'parts' of a mfg home! her outside dimensions fit right in with their size.

I think the difficult part is getting all of the doors off of the rooms! without the need to put a sewing space on the main level, it will be easier.

some friends of mine had a double wide w/ the split bath off of the mstrbdrm - don't remember what brand it was tho. I looked thru the palmharbor and didn't see that tho. maybe they don't make it anymore...

Thanks for the plan ML...I did miss it. I printed them out. They are very, very helpful. My husband knew how to enlarge them, and I'm going to cut them out. I can then move them around like puzzle pieces.

I sent the designer a rather scathing e-mail. When I get REALLY ticked off, my mind clarifies. Basically, I said that my detailed lists, and what had been said at our meeting had obviously not been read or listened to, like everyone else I have paid. I also said that I would not tolerate any further disrespect. No reply so far.

The guy is not someone I want doing our final drawings and blueprints, so my DH can do that with his software, and said he is going to work on it after mowing today. He sure likes our little tractor. Maybe we will get something usable on the floor plan from the designer, but I seriously doubt it. This is a guy who says to me when I was trying to decide on logs versus log siding, or loft or no loft, will say "Oh, so we're back to that again", rather sarcastically. I made a huge point in my e-mail today that it was MY house paid with money earned by my husband and I. I could just spit nails right now. Middle age is a blessing in that one ceases to care about what someone else, who is trying to push them around, thinks.

I am starting to draw out a floor plan with a second story loft. The stairs will run along the bedroom wall in the great room. I'm thinking the second bathroom can run between the bedroom wall and stairway, accessable to both the master and great room. Maybe it will work...don't know yet. I'm hoping it would be private enough. An extra bedroom WIC could sit next to that along the same wall area. Sort of like building rooms back to back with the bedroom. The "study" could be turned into a nice foyer, not as large, with the laundry access off that. There could be a door from the master bathroom into the laundry room as well. These ideas, combined with the space that stairs take up, will create a hall, with privacy gained into the bedroom.

The foyer can be a spot for my large roll top desk, which would be awful to get up into a loft, and a nice bench or chair, so as not to be wasted "show" space. The beautiful door with leaded glass and sidelights would really set this area off.

I would also like to see an access point from the foyer into the kitchen. There will still be another kitchen door somewhere so we can go outside to the porch, and also grill, maybe between the dining area and counter run. I'll try to post here later. The kitchen will be reworked from how he did it, but the basic concept of it and dining running the direction they are. I can pivcture storage closets with a window seat on the front east wall of the kitchen. Maybe that's where the access from the foyer can cut in to run along that wall.

At least my ideas are starting to flow again. Does any of the above make any sense? Hard sometimes to see it with just a bunch of words. I think we can come up with enough to satisfy the county, (and me), so we can get started, with small "remodels" made as we build. I guess I had to get good and P.O.'d.

It sure does make it easier taking the sewing room off the main floor. It makes for a nice plan that isn't boxed in. The other good point is that even though we do not care about resale and are out to please only us, the loft makes the home versatile for resale when we finally kick the bucket. Another point made to me by a log home builder was that it is good to at least build for a future loft in these types of homes, even if the whole space were walled off and not used. The reason being, the walls could come off, and the second story finished. He and his wife ended up with custody of a couple grandchildren. His point was that we cannot predict when we might need extra bedrooms.

Sure wish you gals lived close by. We'd have this thing done and engineer stamped in the blink of an eye. And we'd have fun doing it. Sigh....haven't met any ladies here like you yet. So it's a little lonesome. Society isn't the same any more.

Sandy

Sandy sez: "Sure wish you gals lived close by. We'd have this thing done and engineer stamped in the blink of an eye. And we'd have fun doing it. Sigh....haven't met any ladies here like you yet. So it's a little lonesome. Society isn't the same any more. "

And I know what you mean, Sandy. It does get lonely having interests not shared by those who live close by. It is good that your DH pays attention to your ideas though. Bless him for having the roof designs already done for loft or no-loft!

" This is a guy who says to me when I was trying to decide on logs versus log siding, or loft or no loft, will say "Oh, so we're back to that again", rather sarcastically."

I'd be saying back to him -
'are those comments and sarcasm included in the fee I paid you or do you disburse those at no charge?'

"Middle age is a blessing in that one ceases to care about what someone else, who is trying to push them around, thinks."

thank God there is at least 1 blessing in it - and a good one!

it sounds like you've got your gumption back. put what you said above on paper and post for us to see.

having an upper on both ends will be nice. you could semi close off 1 end with french doors (plus the railing which when doors open would be like a balcony in some apts) and a partial wall.

a cat walk on either or both sides would make it easy to get around also. It is true - kids sometimes end up back home... dd did that twice. you could put a futon or daybed up there - with a chair for reading.

there'll also be space for extra storage. don't forget to use the space under the stairway for storage - or a coat closet. putting the stairway along the bedroom / LR wall is a great way to buffer the bedroom from rest of house.

if you have a lot of books putting a bookshelf across the (both) catwalks would be great place for them.

or a painting .... or a stuffed animal head. like a kid's stuffed animal. I've wanted to do that for yrs and yrs and then watch the look on people's faces...

What I like about brainstorming sessions is the way ideas just tumble out. Ideally, no one stops the flow of ideas to critique the suitability of any one idea. Because to do so would inhibit the flow. Like leap frog, one idea will leap over the previous one, and who knows where it will all lead. The idea is to avoid a rigid mindset that keeps you from getting to your desired destination.

Helping Sandy with her log house is a good example.
And Sandy, I've wondered about the name CROSS CREEK, attached to the floorplan this guy provided to you.

What significance is CROSS CREEK? I ask because it means something to me. You remember the book and movie THE YEARLING? It was written by a lady named Marjorie Kennan Rawlings, and she moved to Florida from New York. The place she lived in Florida was named Cross Creek. There is a really fine movie by that name too, about her life in or at Cross Creek, and it stars Mary Steenburgen and Peter Coyote and Rip Torn, and it is one of my alltime favorite movies. Since you apparently live in that area of Florida, I highly recommend the movie to you. Beautiful scenery, and I loved the old style house she made livable. That house is what I'd call a "cracker house."

AH ML I remember the Yearling and then there is also Gift Of The Deer and one more. I do not remember if I still have them here or not. They were mt dream books when I was first starting out in life. The ones I had were in Readers Digest versions. I will have to look to see if I purged them or not.

Wonderful books. I did not know they had been made into a movie.

OK I must get myself out into the yard and mow the lawn.

Chris

I stand corrected on the books and author and will take it to conversation side.Later . Need to help DH right now.

Chris

I think a split master bath is a wonderful idea! If we remodel our farmhouse, I'm putting in a master bath more for my husband, with a nice walk-in shower and a hall bath right next to the bedroom, which will be a guest bath and my clawfoot tub. I'd love to have a window over the tub and a nice built-in or armoire for storage...and great lighting, like a chandelier and sconces. I can go really girlie, if he has his own "guy" space. LOL

You know, thinking about it, I saw a manufactured home with a split master bath, too. I think it was Mobile Corral, which I believe got bought out by Clayton Homes. Do they even still exist?

My mom and I looked at literally hundreds of manufactured homes, before choosing one. She knew exactly what she wanted and wasn't going to settle for less...especially in her kitchen. We ended up adding 8' to a smaller double wide, which gave her a seating area in the kitchen and a cute front porch in front of the living room.

Sandy- Remember, these builders and all the rest of them work for YOU. Your paycheck, your references, so they want to make you happy. In this economy, if you have someone you're not happy with, I'm sure there are plenty of other builder's who would love the job :)

We have an MCM home from a 1960s BH&G plan. The house technically has 1-1/2 baths, but it functions like two baths. On the blueprints it is called a "compartment bath". The symmetrical house has two bedrooms on one side and two on the other. In each short bedroom hall there is a door to a half bath. Each half bath has a commode, vanity and linen closet. Inside each half bath is a door that opens to a central room that has the tub and W/D connections.

Unorthodox, yes. Good for a large family, no. Perfect for DH and me, yes. It is extremely efficient. "My" bath is the side closest to the BR and "his" bath is the one on the other side.

If we ever have a spare $15K again after doing the kitchen, we've thought about turning it into two true baths. There is enough room to turn the tub 90 degrees and have it service one side, put a wall down the middle, and get a stacked W/D and shower for the other side.

jakabedy, I'm trying to picture your bathrooms. They sound great. Actually, I'm all for unorthodox. Most of the time things like that work better.

Sandy

Jakabedy, in your bath description, you say the nearest half is yours, the other is your husbands. Does he pass through your half and the tub/laundry area, to reach his half? Or is there a hall to use instead?

The change you suggest to make two complete baths sounds like a winner. Now that you've lived in the house for a while, you can see the way ahead. Sort of the way I'm seeing changes to this little cottage, now that I've lived here for 4 years.