Help (please! Casey?) with aluminum jamb liner w/ spiral balance

13 years ago

I desperately need some help to figure out what to best do next with these double-hung windows.

Casey, I noticed that you had posted to the oldhouseweb something about "aluminum jamb liners with the spiral balances integral...we learned how to pull them intact and return them."

I think that is exactly what I am struggling with. What steps do you use to pull these contraptions intact and return them into the frame without mangling the aluminum?

Here's my situation:
- I need to repair/reglaze almost all of the double-hung windows in my 1887 house.

- Almost all of the windows appear to be the typical pulley&rope variety. In the past, I managed to successfully work on one window's sashes by the standard steps (remove side stops, tilt out bottom sash, remove parting bead, tilt out top sash, etc)

- However, the windows that critically need the glazing repair, seem to have these aluminum jamb liners, so I started with one of them (see the image below of one that's currently in position).

Today's weather was beautifully less humid, so I could remove the side stops easily. However, at that point, I was stumpered, because the sashes are somehow inserted into this grooved aluminum jamb, and I could not figure out how to get the botttom sash to slide sideways enough to clear the aluminum lip around it.

I suspect that these are "aluminum jamb liners with integrated spring balances". (Or maybe somehow the spring balances were attached to the sashes, and then inserted into the aluminum jamb liners.)

Either way, I hopelessly mangled the first one. The sashes are still in the aluminum jamb "tracks", but because of the spring balance also in the aluminum jamb track, I cannot figure out how to get the sashes decoupled from the spring balances and out of the aluminum jamb.

The spring balance seems to be attached at the bottom of the bottom sash with a metal piece, with two screws, and the name "Caldwell, Rochester, NY" is stamped into the metal.

I think that what I need help with at this point is:
- For this one where I mangled the jamb, how can I get the sashes out of the aluminum jamb? Without hurting myself? :-)

- For the other ones that are still in their window frames, what are the best steps for removing the entire unit intact, so that I can work on the glazing on the sashes, and then return the whole unit into the window frame?

Thanks for any and all advice! I am really betwixt myself trying to figure out what to do. Terry Meany's book does not discuss this sort of situation enough!

Lee

Here are some pics.

Window that's still in place (shot of the aluminum jamb):

The mangled unit, lying on its side. The sashes to the right.

The mangled unit, the top where the sashes are when I managed to extricate the thing from the window frame:

The top of the jamb, showing the tubular spring balances. I can lift this part away from the sashes, but the spring balances are attached to the sashes at the other end. It almost seemed like I could pop those metal "tubes out of the jamb, but then they go under part of the aluminum jamb and don't want to slide up or down along the jamb:

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Comments (5)

PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
What is the failure of the glazing?

If they are double pane and the seal is failing, I would just vent the IGU and be done with it.

You might be opening pandora's box but trying to pull those units and re-install them.
toddinmn
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
It may be easier to remove the storm and re-glaze from the exterior side. The sashes could be cut down and modified for a vinyl track jambliner system as well and there is no better time to replace them than right now.
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la_koala
Original Author
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Hi windowsonwashington and toddinmn, thanks for responding! It's really great to get somebody else's input. I love GardenWeb for the sense of community here.

windowsonwashington, wow your comment about the pandora's box is spot on! That is a big worry for me after I managed to make a mess of this one window -- there are still a number of windows in the house that I can see have this aluminum in the side tracks.

No double pane. This house was built in 1887, and these sashes seem to be the original, single pane, double-hung sashes. Of course, I could be wrong, and the sashes are not original. But the mouding/carving profiles on these sashes is the same as that on the ones here that still have the pulley&rope system, that I suspect at some point, the owner put the original sashes in this aluminum jamb liner/spiral balance combo. (And actually, the weight pockets for this window are still there with the weights in the pockets).

The glazing is falling out in chunks whenever we open and close the sashes. I think it is just age and sun over time -- these windows face south. We knew that the glazing was going to have to be done at some point, but I didn't realize that these windows are put in so differently than the older pulley&weight window. Due to a reno last year, I had done a bit of work on a first floor window, and thought I had learned what I needed to know about taking out the sashes.

toddinmn,
You have a good point about re-glazing from the exterior. I think that I can do that with the similar ones that are on the first floor. But I am a bit nervous about doing it, with these on the second floor, up on the ladder and all. It's a great thought though -- I can at least investigate what sort of ladder and setup I'd need.

And I still need a solution for the set of sashes that I wrested out of the window frame, because I don't see how that set of jamb liners is going to go back into the frame.

Thanks!
Lee
PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
If they are single paned, just hire a good painter and have the glazing removed and re-glazed from the exterior or interior.

Don't bother removing the window. That is cutting off your nose despite your face.

Way more work to try to pull this window and preserve it vs. doing it from outside.

I am not sure how to help you on that other question as far as putting it back. They are not really designed to popped in or out.

Sorry for the bad news on that part.
la_koala
Original Author
13 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Hi windowsonwashington,

Way more work to try to pull this window and preserve it vs. doing it from outside.

Yes, I can see that is a true statement. :-) Especially for my skill levels for sure.

That's a good idea about calling in a painter. I had been so focused on the whole glazing question that I had forgotten that a good house painter must have to deal with exterior glazing all the time. Thanks for thinking of that!

--Lee