gut check on panel upgrade recommendations and estimate

18 years ago

Frequent GW poster, but new to the electrical forum (I think). I had an electrician come by today for a service upgrade quote. I have a 1923 house with 100amp service and a jam packed panel. I called for a quote to upgrade to 200 amps since I just finished remodeling the kitchen, installing AC, and I'm about to add a full bath, not to mention the breaker box is too full - lots of double breakers that shouldn't be in there.

The electrician said there is no need to upgrade, that 100 amps is sufficient. The only 220 loads we have are the AC, dryer, and range. When the new bathroom is complete, there will be dedicated 15amp 110 circuits for a microwave, radiant floor heating, fridge, dishwasher/disposer, air tub pump, and air tub heater. Everything else in the house is general lights-and-plugs runs.

The electrician recommended just replacing the panel with a 100 amp, 32 slot panel. His bid includes all parts and labor (he's reusing a dozen or so of the breakers I have now and providing the rest), grounding and bonding to code, and permits. The only additional work he mentioned was that he may have to cut a couple runs of conduit to relocate them. The work area would be close to the panel so not a lot of effort but something nonetheless. The total quote was $1200. So 2 questions:

Is 100 amps really sufficient? The electrician said if he did the load calc that it wouldn't be an issue. When I told him I would be adding even more circuits with my remodel, he said it still wouldn't be an issue.

Is $1200 a reasonable bid for the work he quoted?

The company came recommended by a contractor friend, and the electrician seemed trustworthy and professional. He gets bonus points for trying to sell me less than I asked for. If it matters, I'm in Portland, OR, and it's just my wife and me in the house. Thanks in advance for your comments.

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Comments (10)

bigbird_1
18 years ago
"The electrician said if he did the load calc that it wouldn't be an issue."

Then why didn't he actually do a load calc and show you?
With the stove, dryer, and A/C all on, you're looking at 60-70A of use. Turn on the microwave, fridge, lights, plug in a hairdryer and laser printer, maybe a kettle and a toaster oven, and you're way over 100A. I haven't even mentioned the dishwasher/disposal, air tub heater, and your extra cc'ts for the remodel. I'd go 200A. $1200 is a reasonable quote for a new 100A panel. BTW, if you put in a new panel you always put in new breakers. Never re-use old breakers in a new panel.
joed
18 years ago
Here is alink to a demand load calculation. You can do your own and see how it comes out.
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/homewiringusa/2002/definitions/demandcalc/index.htm
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codnuggets
Original Author
18 years ago
Thanks for the calculator, I'll try a load calc when I get home in a few weeks.

Here's another question on the panel upgrade. If 100A turns out to be sufficient, it seems to me that the only thing I'm getting for my $1200 is the addition of more breakers and circuit slots. Is there any reason I can't just throw in a 60A breaker and run it to a small sub panel mounted right next to the main panel, then move a handful of the circuits to the subpanel? Wouldn't the end result be exactly the same, a 100A service with the capacity for more breakers? Well, not exactly the same, I'd have an extra $1000 in my pocket.

Are there any code considerations here?
cobraguy
18 years ago
I can't believe 100A will make you happy. And if you need to upgrade, you may as well go to 200A. Do the load calculations. I think you'll find you're on the very edge of 100A (if not over) and you won't have any room for future expansion. Money well spent in my opinion.
ionized_gw
18 years ago
I can't believe that you will be happy with 100 amps either, but doing the calculations is a good idea. A new 100-amp panel canÂt cost that much less than a 200-amp. The added cost of a new meter pan, mast and associated wire might be significant. How about this, is it possible to install a 200-amp panel with a 100-amp main breaker? If that is not sufficient for your needs later, you get the guy back to upgrade the rest of the stuff.
lewisnc100
18 years ago
Not sure about other parts of the country, but here in Indiana when I went from 100A to 200A the power company covered the outside upgrade including providing a new meter pan. I'd start with a call to them to see how much the upgrade would be from their side.
codnuggets
Original Author
18 years ago
It'll be a couple weeks before I can take any action on this so I have idle time to do some research. So far I have determined that replacing my cram packed 100A box with a bigger 100A box is $1200 down the crapper. If I stick with 100A, I'm just going to add a subpanel right next to the main. In my research I've even learned some good things about sizing and grounding that I didn't know before so this debate is yielding something no matter how it ends up.

FWIW, I haven't had an issue with my existing 100A service even with the new kitchen, and I expect the added load from the new bathroom wont push me over the edge. I'll do the load calc, but I'm guessing that I wont NEED to upgrade. Whether it makes sense to upgrade, that could be another question. If all I need is a subpanel, I'm comfortable doing the work myself so the cost difference to upgrade will be substantial.

Ionized, I like the idea of getting a 200A panel and using a 100A breaker in it for now. I've found others who have done the same.

Thanks for the input.
texasredhead
18 years ago
I think you should get a second opinion from a licensed master electrician. In Dallas we simply do all service upgrades with 200 amp service. There is very little cost difference between 150 and 200 amp service panels. We would never upgrade a panel in a home with modern appliances, updated kitchens and baths, A/C(s), computers, multiple TVs in 100 amp service. Also, is your service entrance upgraded? Further, out of curiosity, what is the brand of your current electrical panel? I'm sure it is not original to the house.
codnuggets
Original Author
18 years ago
My service entrance is not upgraded, it may be the original from 1923. The panel is newer, but I'm not sure of the brand and I'm away from home now so I can't look. I do know that I bought a few breakers for it at Home Depot not long ago so I think it's fairly modern. Doing the full upgrade to 200A would require new everything including moving and raising the entrance. It will be a big cost I'm trying to avoid right now.
cobraguy
18 years ago
Do the load calculations. See how close you are. See if the POCO will upgrade your service entrance for you. You really don't want to go cheap and lazy on this if you're close to needing more. It will come back and bite you someday when you need more power for something and you can't get it.