On old pieces like this, I would always try denatured alcohol first in an inconspicuous place because most old pieces have a shellac finish. Denatured alcohol re-distributes the shellac and many times this is all you need to do. I don't know if that will help or hurt now. I took classes from master woodworkers and they would never recommend Murphy's Oil Soap because it leaves a residue. Sorry I can't be more helpful.
Diane

Thanks, Diane for the information. This piece was meant to be my learning piece. One thing the Murphy's oil soap did was to really clean all the carving since there was lots of dust and gunk in there. I was even wondering if it was the Murphy's or the RAF that cleaned up the wood/inlay. The other table definitely has lots of some shiny stuff (shellac) on top and there are like little bumps on it and it seems to make it water proof. Do you think I should switch over to the denatured alcohol for the other one?

Wow, I'm sorry but I think you might have ruined that table. Try denatured alcohol on an inconspicuous part of the other, if it gets a little tacky it's shellac, if not try a little lacquer thinner on a Qtip b/c if it's not shellac it's bound to be lacquer. Use naptha or mineral spirits to clean it, not Murphy's! All it may need is a good cleaning. If you think it needs more after cleaning, try the RAF (I've never used it).

All I can say (not knowing about RAF) on the first one is again, try mineral spirits, *maybe* you can get that staining from the RAF out (you can always call the number on the can and tell them what happened, see what solvent they recommend for taking the RAF off). Use a clean rag (DH's old white T shirt), not steel wool. See what happens. Those tables are veneered, and you might have sanded right through the veneer. If you really want to save it, you should bring it to a professional restorer. If you didn't spend that much on it, maybe a nice doily would cover the damage?

It looks like you sanded against the grain. YIKES!

The reason the RAF looks odd, is that the sanded area is raw wood and took the finish right away, while the rest of the table has a shellac and the RAF really didn't do anything because it will not stick to a poly or shellac. The RAF that you used was darker than the original wood stain color.

Is the wreath and flowers painted on, or are they inlay pieces as well? If so, you need to re-sand (with the grain) the entire top, and then start over with the RAF. If the wreath is painted, not much you can do, unless you don't mind getting rid of the decor.

Thank you, ajsmama and NHB, for the additional opinions and suggestions.

ajsmama: I've read conflicting opinions on the use of mineral spirits and Murphy's Oil Soap. Guess this is one application I need to denatured alcohol/mineral spirits instead. Will that take off the finish? I think I need to at least take it off the top of both tables, though will leave on the sides since there is so much carving and they faired pretty well with the RAF. I don't think I went through the veneer though.

NHB: I was trying to sand with the grain at the same time get the scratches out with minimal sanding. It's nearly impossible as the grain runs in 4 different directions and at a diagonal to. The inlay is separate wood and not painted on. It does seem like to get it to work I would need to get all the shellac off. I was using the mahogany RAF--should I have done something lighter, like neutral?

I guess a lighter color would have been better.

I ran into the same problem when I was trying to refinish my leather inlay tables. The RAF would not stick to the leather, and only succeeded in touching up the scratches. Not only that, the wood was soaking up the RAF so fast, that I had to put many coats on it, and it still didn't work well. I finally ended up using a permanent marking to fill the scratches, and then used the RAF.

My table is not nearly as nice as yours.
{{!gwi}}

{{gwi:1375020}}

I think what happened is that you sanded through the finish, which allowed the RAF to soak into the wood more and thus stain those areas darker. On the rest of the table, the RAF is just sitting on the top and has much less of a "staining" effect.

You can fix the table without too much fuss - you can either sand (very carefully - don't mess up the veneer or inlays) all the finish off the top or strip it with a stripper. I'd use the stripper if only because sanding runs the risk of leaving marks or wrecking the veneer/inlay.

Then when you RAF again (or use regular stain and poly - whatever floats your boat), it will all come out darker like the areas you sanded. Unfortunately, you'll have to do the same thing to the other table if you want the tops to match in color.

For future reference, I would have first tried mineral spirits, then denatured alcohol, on the scratches. If neither worked to smooth them out, I would have then tried the RAF by itself to see if I was happy with the look. If not, I would have been right where you are now - having to strip the tabletop - so you really didn't screw anything up anyhow.

Good luck!

This may be a stupid question, but what the heck is "RAF"?

Lynn, RAF = Restore-A-Finish.

I would think that mineral spirits would clean the RAF off and then you can start over if you didn't sand through the veneer. But call them and find out, see how it looks after you get the darker RAF off. You might be able to save the original finish if you can get the dark spots out. See this link for help at that point

http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/savingfinish.htm

If it is shellac, denatured alcohol will strip the original finish off along with the RAF, you might have to go that far if you sanded all the way through the finish and the RAF won't lighten up. Don't sand the finish off. Once you get the original finish off the top (I would leave the sides alone, just put another coat of shellac over it), you can either use a very light-colored stain (so you don't darken the inlay) or just put a finish on. I would recommend shellac or lacquer (whatever the original finish is) so you don't strip the whole piece but they dry very quickly so they're a pain to work with. I just had a horrible experience with spray lacquer and ended up having to strip and refinish a new(er) coffee table due to spits and drips from the nozzle. The best thing to do may be to call a pro.

I bought these tables with the idea that I would try my hand at restoring/refinishing myself. I have a spot for one table, not the other, so this first one is definitely an experiment. That said, I'd like to see if I can do it and learn something in the process instead of turning it over to a pro--because after this I want to tackle my dining room chairs and my DR table also has a scratch along the top I'll need to tackle at some point--for now I just have a table runner cover the scratch.

I'm going to go and get some mineral spirits and denatured alcohol. Is either one of these a stripper or is that something else? I guess I'll find out when I go to the hardware store. I'm also thinking if I can get the stain off, to get the natural Restore-A-Finish as I don't want to darken up the lighter wood inlay too much. I do also need to get some finer sandpaper or perhaps coarser steel wool. Because of the four different directions the grain runs, I was wondering if I should mask off one area at a time to work on.

As for the other table, I've not started yet, it sounds like the plan should be to first try the mineral sprits, then the alcohol. There are some little bumps on it--perhaps the finish (shellac or laquer) was not applied smoothly? Once I get the tops they want I like them then I could consider relaquering/shellacing them--though was thinking of just waxing them. Would the laquer/shellac be better because there is the inlay? I notice there are some some grooves where the wood pieces join together.

I am mostly going to focus on the tops since the sides actually turned out well and I don't want to mess much with the carving/glazing other than just cleaning it and light touch up with RAF. I did some sanding also on the bottom legs which were also scratched up, but they turned out much better than the top--probably as it's not a veneer?

First, congratulations for taking on what i would consider to be a very challenging project. I don't really have anything to offer in terms of technique, but i have a feeling you're going to end up with two very beautiful tables once you experiment with the advise offered by others here.

Please keep us posted.

Just found these on local CL - I would get a pro if these are really worth what this person is asking.

http://hartford.craigslist.org/fuo/888301839.html

Anyway, mineral spirits is paint thinner - won't strip shellac or lacquer, but will clean it. Denatured alcohol will strip shellac (if you leave it on long enough - briefly will just soften finish). Lacquer thinner will do the same thing for lacquer. I would not use a chemical (gel) stripper on these since it can loosen the glue holding the veneer/inlay, may even loosen joints. See the link on saving the finish - you really should just try to restore the finish on antiques.

What grit sandpaper did you use? 0000 steel wool is = 220 grit sandpaper. You shouldn't have to sand at all, on a veneer with basically no finish if you feel you must sand to get stain/finish to take try to keep it to 320, 220 at the lowest. If you are trying to rub out the shellac finish to get it glossy you have to wait until it's thoroughly cured/hard, then start with 400 if there are lumps, 600 if it's not too lumpy, work up to 800, 1200 (buy at auto paint store - Home Depot doesn't carry over 600) and so on until you get the gloss level you want. Use mineral oil (not spirits) as a lubricant.

Is RAF basically a tinted lacquer thinner (since someone said it wouldn't work on shellac)? Do you just wipe it on and off? How do you avoid rag/brush marks? I am thinking of trying it on some 4-yr old end tables that are scratched. I ended up stripping and staining (haven't finished again yet) the coffee table since spray lacquer over top didn't work out to get rid of cross-grain scratches.

ajsmama: Wow, those look just like mine--in much better condition. I bought my pair for $200--total impulse buy and I'm still not really sure what I'm going to do with them. I have one in my DR, other in my FR for now, but doesn't really go there. If I could get them restored I may reconsider putting them back in the LR. It's hard to say the value as on CL, it's all in what buyers will pay. I'm sure they'd go for even more in an antique store or on eBay. Interesting the seller says they are walnut. I was wondering about that and if I should've try a walnut finish instead of the mahogany. Anyway, I did strip the one table top today and took off all the shellac/lacquer. Good news is the veneer is still intact. Thanks for the suggestions about the sandpaper. I did try using the 400 sandpaper as there are still scratches in it. It does need some light sanding I plan to do tomorrow--masking off a section at a time so I can go with the grain.

Then I need advise what to do next. My understanding of Restore-a-Finish is to use on an existing finish--now I've taken it off, I don't think I can use it and I need to refinish. Have no idea what process to use, brand of stain, color, or whether to put another coat of poly, lacquer, etc. Also, if I should start with a wood conditioner and/or do I clean it--if so, how? I don't want to use water as it can raise the grain. Can I clean with the Murphy's Oil Soap now I am down to bare wood? I do think there was no way around stripping the top due to the scratches--nothing worked to soften the shellac/top coat. And I think I am going to have to strip the top of the other one--not only to make it match this one, but because the inlay is so dirty and the top mottled.

Regarding the scratches, if you find a solution, let me know. There was a recent thread about someone who had a scratch in her coffee table. Perhaps that may help.

I ended up posting some pics and questions on the woodworking forum. Below is the link so you can see what the top looks like now. All the uneven stain is gone and most of the scratches. The side by sides looks pretty good where you can see I used the Resore-A-Finish.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread on woodworking forum about my tables

Val -- I wish I had seen this earlier.

When I used the RAF, I first cleaned the piece with warm water and wood cleaner. I then APPLIED the RAF with the steel wool, rubbing gently with the grain, using a harder pressure on the deep scratches, gouges, knicks, cracks and bubbles. I did one small area at a time and wiped the excess RAF off -- still with the grain -- as I worked each area. I would go back over the larger areas as I completed each area so that everything blended together.

By using the steel wool BEFORE using the RAF, you're essentially sanding away the finish instead of restoring it, which means you'll actually need to refinish instead of restore.

Here is a link that might be useful: My RAF buffet

sarschlos: I remember your successful thread about your buffet and even noted down the steps, but you are right that I did not realize the importance of doing the buffing with the RAF--not beforehand. This has definitely been a learning experience which I intended it to be when I purchased these tables. I wanted to try on something else before starting on the DR chairs/table, though I've now come to realize this is a much more complicated project than I anticipate to DR set to be. I do think that there was no way I could escape needing to strip and refinish these tables--as there were different problems with each one. Seems the other table has fisheye from prior Pledge contamination and bobsmyuncle over on the woodworking forum recommends stripping that as well.

Both looked to have a lot of lacquer/shellac that was probably incorrectly applied sometime in the past which led to these problems--and would also not allow the RAF to penetrate much, though I do notice improved results using the Murphy's Oil soap/RAF on the table legs (left table is the one that I used the RAF, right is not done yet):

Even before refinishing, the stripped table looks so much better than either of the two tables before:

Now I just need to figure out best way to refinish. Bobsmyuncle recommends first putting a couple of light coats of shellac to seal in the silicone (Pledge) contamination and the finish it. I'm wondering what type of stain/finish to use or even I need one at all as there still looks to be a lot of color in the wood and I don't want to darken the inlay. If anyone can recommend some specific brands to use, that'd be much appreciated.

I think you should see how it looks after the shellac - since the original finish is probably shellac you may just want to put a few more coats on after the first 2 without staining at all. As long as you're stripping the fisheyed finish off the other one, you don't have to worry about matching color. The shellac will darken the wood a little just by itself.

I did comment on the scratched coffee table thread (will have to check and see how it went), just was hoping that those RAF users here could tell me what RAF works on, since I haven't used it before and someone here said it didn't work on shellac, so I figured it would work on lacquer. Sounds easier than stripping and anything's got to be better than spray lacquer! I can't just touch up the scratches with lacquer thinner on an artist's brush since there are so many of them. If RAF doesn't work, I'd end up stripping the tops of the end tables too since they're probably contaminated with Pledge the way the coffee table was.

I applaud your attempt to restore those tables and you've gotten some excellent advice, but when I first saw them I thought they were too nice for a novice to experiment with.

After seeing ajsmama's link to other similar tables, I'd be hauling your tables to a pro so that potential value isn't lost.
If you still want to learn about refinishing/restoring, I'd recommend buying a really cheap piece of furniture to practice on.

As you've discovered, refinishing isn't easy and not inexpensive by the time you buy all the trial & error supplies! ;)

ajsmama: Using just the shallac sounds like a possibility--hopefully I can get it on smooth. Any tips or brands of shellac to buy? I saw your thread on the WW forum about having problems with the spray on finish so perhaps I should stay away from that. I think I will tackle the top of the other table today.

Regarding your questions about RAF I am a novice with it myself, but am linking a thread below where various applications were discussed and how it doesn't really work well if there is any type of shellac/lacquer/poly finish as it can't penetrate the wood. I knew there was a good chance it would not work because of the shellac on top, but wanted to give it a try anyway before proceeding to more drastic measures. It certainly didn't do any lasting harm and I was even able to get it out of the areas of the table top where I had sanded away the finish. It did seem to work on the table legs, though, unless it was all just from a good cleaning--getting all the gunk out of the carved grooves which is also a good possibility. If you follow my thread on the woodworking forum, it sounds as if bobsmyuncle is recommending the shellac first to contain the Pledge contamination. Is that your take on it? If nothing else, this is sure educational as I knew these tables needed work--just not how much and now I think I paid way too much for them, given how much work they need. Still, it is a fun project watching the layers or dirt, grime and crud come off and restoring the beauty of the wood and inlay below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread about Restore-a-Finish

Sorry, I've never used shellac myself and the one time I tried spray lacquer it turned out horrible. I think that shellac can easily be sanded, put thin coats on and they'll dry quicker. Each coat actually bonds to the previous one without sanding between, unlike poly. The shellac is used as a sealer but test and see if denatured alcohol softens the finish on the inside of a leg or other hidden spot. If the original finish is shellac, then just keep putting coats of shellac on. Shellac can actually be applied with a lambswool applicator or a brush, multiple layers will build up and give a deep gloss. If you put it on really thin (pad it, or French polish) you won't get brush marks. Bobsmyuncle is a great source of info.

Denatured alcohol will strip the old shellac off - if one or both tables have poly, you will have to use a chemical stripper. I really hate to use that on veneer/inlay, but I don't think there's anything else that will take poly off. Post over on the woodworking forum. I would still consider taking these to a pro.

I don't think you paid too much - I paid $200 for new tables (half new price) that needed the tops refinished. I want to do something quick with the end tables (maybe refinish them in the spring) just to hide the scratches. That's why I thought RAF might acutally Restore the Finish. I ended up totally stripping and restaining the coffee table, haven't decided yet if I'm going to use satin poly or a tung oil. Tung oil is easier to touch up, though Minwax Wipe-on Poly is so thin that it's easy enough to scuff sand/steel wool and just wipe another coat on.

Good luck!

annz & ajsmama: I appreciate your recommendations about having a professional restore these tables. Most likely it's not in my budget, though; plus working on these tables is a creative outlet for me. I know my results won't be as good as a professional, but so far I don't think I've done any damage and I figure I can't make them look any worse than the already were. In the process I discovered that one of the legs was broken and repaired on one of the tables so they definintely were not in the best condition to start.
So far, I have stripped the tops and fronts of both tables and tomorrow I plan to use a clear shellac on them followed by a clear varnish. I just wanted to show the results so far as it's just amazing to me how much crud was on these tables and now you can see the beauty of the inlay like in the tables that ajsmama linked.

If I am not being to nosey, How much did you pay for these tables on CL? What a lovely find.

organic_nettie: I paid $200 for both tables, though now that I see what terrible condition they were in, including one leg that was broken and repaired, I think I paid too much; though if they were in pristine condition would be worth at least 2-3 times more I think. Which lesson, learned, why buying antiques, make sure to check things out carefully since sellers don't always disclose this information--given the fact he said his mother owned for many years, you'd think he would've known of a repair job. In any case it does not diminish the beauty or functionaltiy of these tables since it's in the back, but probably does diminish the value. I've probably spent another $50 on refinishing supplies, plus a lot of my time.

val- When I first saw this thread I thought,"Oh no!! Are you really experimenting with those pretty tables?!" Ha. They're starting to look a lot nicer already. Can't wait to see them finished.