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turtlemeng

Mamamia, I just don't get it, dimmable cfl's...help

14 years ago

(1) I already searched the threads. I have learnt a lot but also got more confused

(2) I live in California

(3) I will have about 10 recessed can lights. I did not have any before.

(4) The GC told me cfl's are not dimmable. I am sure he is wrong.

(5) However, are dimmable bulbs a lot more expensive?

Is the switch a lot more expensive?

And those two are all you need for dimmable cfl's, right?

(6) In your opinion, do you think it's even worthwhile to have dimmable cfl's, or just have two sets where I can control 1/2 each time?

(7) yeah, last question...does it really matter if it's 2700, 3500, or 4100K?

I know there's a lighting forum and I looked there too. But I know there are so many able people here.

Help the helpless person...

Comments (10)

  • 14 years ago

    This from wiki on cfl bulbs:
    Dimming:
    Only some CF lamps are labeled for dimming control. Using regular CFLs with a dimmer is ineffective at dimming, can shorten bulb life and will void the warranty of certain manufacturers.[63] Dimmable CFLs are available.[64] There is a need for the dimmer switch used in conjunction with a dimmable CFL to be matched to its power consumption range, many dimmers installed for use with incandescent bulbs do not yield acceptable results below 40W, whereas CFL applications commonly draw power in the range 7-20W. The marketing and availability of dimmable CFLs has preceded that of suitable dimmers. The dimming range of CFLs is usually between 20% and 90%.[65] However, in many modern CFLs the dimmable range has been improved to be from 2% to 100%, more akin to regular lights. There are two types of dimmable CFL marketed: Regular dimmable CFLs, and "switch-dimmable" CFLs. The latter use a regular light switch, while the on-board electronics has a setting where the number of times the switch is turned on & off in quick succession sets a reduced light output mode. Dimmable CFLs are not a 100% replacement for incandescent fixtures that are dimmed for "mood scenes" such as wall sconces in a dining area. Below the 20% limit, the lamp remain at the approximate 20% level, in other cases it may flicker or the starter circuitry may stop and restart.[66] Above the 80% dim limit, the bulb will generally glow at 100% brightness. However, these issues have been addressed with the latest units and some CFLs may perform more like regular lamps. Dimmable CFLs have a higher purchase cost than standard CFLs due to the additional circuitry required for dimming. A further limitation is that multiple dimmable CFLs on the same dimmer switch may not appear to be at the same brightness level. Cold Cathode CFLs can be dimmed to low levels, making them popular replacements for incandescent bulbs on dimmer circuits.

    Google "dimmable cfl bulbs." You'll come up with lots of sites selling dimmable cfls, including Amazon.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Google search: dimmable cfl bulbs

  • 14 years ago

    See the lighting forum under Title 24.

    I got the dimmable LED CREE LR6 in the warm color 2700.

    I think dimmable is worth it if you don't have some other light that can be "mood" lighting.

    Folks tend to prefer warmer lighting in the kitchen so food looks better (skin too ;)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Title 24

  • 14 years ago

    I'll tell you our experience - we, too, had to battle it out with the contractor - but I'm glad we did in the end!

    Dimmable CFLs for high hats are expensive. $12-15 each, maybe? We also bought the special CFL dimmer - it's right next to the other dimmers in the aisle. The one issue we had with this is that the "almond" in that brand is a slightly different color than all of our other switches. I don't notice it anymore, but was rather infuriated at choosing time!

    When we finally had them all installed, we played with the dimmer, and 2 of our 8 bulbs immediately burnt out! My husband was ready to take them all back. Instead we returned the two that blew and had them replaced with new ones. Haven't had a problem in the 7 months since.

    The drawbacks: You can't dim to a really low light like you could with incandescents. They also take a full minute to "warm up" and come up to full light.

    Even with the drawbacks, I love the light that they give off and the energy savings are worth it!

  • 14 years ago

    I thought I wanted dimmable recessed lighting. Our electrician priced me out two lists of materials - one with dimmables and one without. The price difference was HUGE. The dimmables were alot more expensive for the fixtures and bulbs. CFL fixtures were over a hundred fifty dollars more each and bulbs were about fifteen each. Our low-tech solution saved us alot of dough: We put half the recessed lights on one switch, the other half on another switch and also split the six pendants between two more switches. Yes, four switches sounds like alot, but it has been easy to get used to; just flip the switch(es) up or down depending on mood or task. The dimmers would have been a huge waste. Also, now that we can actually see in there, we don't want to turn them off anyway! It is amazing how much of our kitchen we can actually see now - no wonder it took so long to give in and renovate! If we could have seen what it really looked like, we probably would have done this years ago!!

  • 14 years ago

    That's expensive for CFL dimming. The LED would be cheaper. I got trim / housing / light bulb for about from polar-ray.com for way less than that.

    CREE is also just coming out with a less expense dimmable called the CR6.

    Here is a link that might be useful: CREE stuff

  • 14 years ago

    Wow...wait...so do the LED's count as clf's under Californian law? Now even more confused.

  • 14 years ago

    The CA law says "high efficacy". The LEDS are about 1/2 the watts of the CFLs. 10.5 per can! Yes, they qualify as high efficacy.

    They will give you less watts for your formula -which makes this law a bit twisted.

    So, you'll have about 105 watts if you do LED. You can then put in up to 105 watts of incandescent if you want.

    If you use undercounter FL or LED, you add those high efficacy watts on too. So if you had LED undercab (i have the ones from environmenttallighting.com ) you can have some more watts of incandescent.

    I'm loving the LED lighting. Its really quite nice! And I should never have to change a bulb! They are silent and the also start up immediately, unlike some FL.

  • 14 years ago

    Oh, i should mention that the fixtures themselves must have a GU24 socket. You can't have a the screw in kind (called an Edison socket).

  • 14 years ago

    1. happens all the time.
    2. I know that is an issue for some, but its ok by me.
    3. great.
    4. Most CFLs are NOT dimmable and state so on the package. But there are newer (ie, more expensive) ones that are as mentioned above.
    5. yes, yes and maybe not.
    6. two sets would be much cheaper to implement.
    7. Yes, color temperature matters. You need to decide what you want: the reddish warmth of incandescent bulbs or something more bright/blueish of normal daylight. Personally, I find the Daylight versions to be a bit bright, ie harsh.

    LED lights are great, especially under a cabinet. I have one in a can (normal, screwin-type can) next to a 75w flood in the next can. Same color temp but the LED is a bit more focused. It starts up about 0.25 seconds after the incandescent, but it's full bright as opposed to the CFL it replaced.

  • 14 years ago

    Some LEDs do count for Title 24; they must be certified as 24-compliant. UC Davis has a nice guide to what counts and how to count your watts. They haven't released the 2008 lighting design guide yet (for the standards that were adopted in 2008 and kicked in this year) but have the "pocket guides" available already; I found the 2005 design guide just as helpful since not that much has changed for kitchens. They give a very clear list of what counts and what doesn't, how to calculate what you need, and what you need to do to qualify for "extra" watts.

    Here are a few reflections on dimmable CFLs:
    - They do exist! We've used them for three years now, as all of our lights are on dimmers right now.

    - The technology is not quite there yet. It's improved just in the past three years, though, and there seems to be a demand so I expect it will continue to improve.

    - Pay for the high-quality ones. It's 100% worth it. The cheap ones burn out quickly, buzz, and generally are not as good.

    - You can use regular CFLs in a dimmable fixture if you want. Helps if you have a switch that lets you set the dimness separately from the on-off (so you set it to 100% and just turn it on and off as usual, versus the round spinny kind where it gets adjusted every time you turn it on).

    - For cans, I probably wouldn't do CFLs at all---LEDs and other fluorescents seem better suited to this. Dimmable LEDs are also getting better quickly, and are available for GU24 sockets. If you get cans equipped with GU24 sockets, you'll be in compliance and should have a number of options as time goes on.

    For whatever it's worth, we're using non-dimmable CFLs for our ceiling fixtures (flush mount, not cans, though) and putting Edison sockets on the two lights we want to be able to dim regularly (pendants over sink and table, which we sometimes turn on at night if someone's coming home late, etc.). Hopefully we'll be able to use dimmable CFLs anyway, but it gives us some options in the meantime. We just barely squeak by with the 50-50 rule.

    Here is a link that might be useful: UC Davis Title 24 Guide