For me personally, 36" wouldn't work. I couldn't reach to wipe the back of the counter without standing on a stool and that would drive me nuts. If you had toaster or anything plugged in at the wall you'd also have to either jump to reach it or stand on a stool.

Do you still have your old kitchen intact? If so, put a piece of cardboard 36" wide on your counter and see how you like it. It may work for you, but for me it would be too inconvenient.

A test depth is a good idea. I think the 32'' high counters will be easier to reach all they way to the back. I'm not adverse to climbing on a step stool. The cooktop wall will have covered backsplash shelves that make the actual countertop less-deep, say 28''. I've not decided how deep to make the shelves. I saw a really cleaver design where the shelves were hidden in the backsplash covered with sliding marble doors. At least a solid surface would be easier to clean! If the doors could be removed for cleaning that would be ideal. The greatest advantage would be deep drawers with full extension glides (if they make those that deep).

You got me thinking about trying out 36'' deep counters. Well, I don't need to. I use that set-up all the time! Maybe that is why I love my Napanee Kitchenet. The counter pulls out to a 23'' work surface. The back cabinets are 11'' deep. It is easy to reach into the cabinets at counter level and above with the counter pulled out all the way.

Ok a couple of questions. Have you checked into the 21" deep uppers yet? That might be too deep for uppers because they wouldn't have the ability to be properly hung on the wall without support. Normally 15" is about the deepest without support below.

And secondly, what will be under the 36" counters? Are you building out the cabs or just the counters? Then what supports the counters? And the cabs would need to be pulled out somewhat so you can access them correctly.

Don't get me wrong...I like the idea :) But I just wanted to get a feel for how it will flow. If it were me, on the 36" counters, I think I'd build up the back of the counters (about 10 or 12" in) as a shelf off the main counter. (I can't describe this well but I'll give you a picture of my kitchen sink which has a similar build up). It makes the less accessable area nice to be used for storage or canisters, etc, which are easier to reach when in use if they're a bit above the counters, ie when the counters are full of bowls and goober from cookie making, you can reach over that stuff for a canister. And it's a nice look. It also reduces cleaning issues since the flour and water blah blah does not have 36" to roll all over.

(Like what I have in the corner here)

Hi Dawn! (Love your thoughts on SP.) Let's see, I want to custom build full-depth base cabs with drawers. Half of the 21'' uppers will be vent hood. Height of the bottom shelf over the above-counter ovens is 68''; not cabs I will be in to often. Brackets under the above-counter ovens could support everything, don't you think?

The raised shelf is a good idea, especially behind a sink. I am really messy. I think, though, a raised ledge in front of the windows would raise the height of the window sill enough that I can not see the garden. The house is on a 48" crawlspace and the 32'' counter height will help. Unfortunately, I don't have a beautiful lake like you see ;0(

The shelf might work well on the cooking wall. A de Guilio project that is no longer on their web site had a very cool hidden cupboard in the back splash. It was like the nooks behind a range and covered with a sliding door. It was also the back splash. Mine would not be built into the wall but out from the wall, making the counter 28'' deep rather than the full 36''s. I don't even know what I'd keep in there. It is just so cool I want it!

The boring practical stuff: The prep side will have utensils, knives, bowls, baking dishes, and anything that is more convenient in the base cabs than the pantry such as the food processor, KA mixer, hand mixer, and bread maker. I know there will not be room for all the appliances; what doesn't fit will be in the pantry.

The cooking side will have pots, pans, baking trays, oils, spices, herbs, utensils, a drawer for the brick oven stuff (baking stones, pans, racks) hot pads and probably things I can't think of now. There is one UC oven, and room for a second UC oven if the next owners want two ovens. Two ovens would leave one 42'' cab (or divided into 2-21'' cabs)of drawers under the cooktop) to hold everything. Maybe this picture helps.

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

While I think a 36" deep area for cooking projects is great, for me 36" countertops would be too deep. That corner between sink and lowered countertop is 44" deep. That's too deep for me to reach comfortably; I'm 5'6".

I'm concerned that the best and most prep space is not too handy to the oven or the cooktop. Also, if a person is walking toward the 3-season porch (positioned about where it says "6'10" on the floorplan above), with a tray of burgers to go on the BBQ or an armfull of anything, the path gets a bit tight?

Mom2lilenj, I am not as tall as you! The sink would be the first landing place for the dirty dishes. If the corner counter area is only for getting dirty dishes out of the way, maybe it would be OK. It is a 40'' x 24'' cabinet. Good thing I've got long arms-ha!

Rhome, the area between the prep and cook counters concerns me, too. Some prep can be done by the cooktop, but that won't solve the whole dilemma.

I knew you were right about the 44''-LOL! Hey, did you finish your thesis?

Oh, I'm still working, but am using this forum for a break ever now and then. I have to place a time limit though, LOL.

How about if you make your baking counter just like your Kitchete? Have it pull out with a small shelf at the back to give you some extra room when you need it and push it back in when you don't. With your clean up sink so close you don't absolutely need the prep sink. I know you wanted a place to put dishes and still have a sink free for cooking, but how about if you put a dishpan in the big sink wouldn't that almost achieve the same thing?

21" Uppers are fine.
But make sure your cabs are made from cabinet grade ply 3/4" thick. Secondly, make sure your installer creates blocking set into the wall and for the installer to use #10 cabinet hangers 3" long.
An earthquake would not move them.

Attempting to address all the comments:

NO 36'' counters, but cooktop is 30'' deep

Rhome: prep counter nearer cooking wall and wider door to porch (and in the way of the cooktop if someone is passing).

Mom2lilenj: more reachable corner and uniform counter height and I still have a prep sink that is close to the door and cooktop ;D

I know there is lots of open space in the center. If I don't like all the space I'd prefer to bring in something not attached to the floor such as a table or chopping block.

{{!gwi}}

Just curious, is this dining area replacing your dining room, which I think was down the hall? Also again just curious, but why did you move the dining area from the best views? Was it to give the kitchen better access to the garden?

I think I like the previous design better, with maybe swapping the cooktop with the fridge. I wouldn't want to have the cooktop directly where everyone walks in.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll try to answer your questions. There are so many places (5 tables) to eat in this house we actually discuss where we are eating supper every night! On the front porch-- in the small DR-- at the upstairs table-- or by the TV? The dining room is just used as a practice room. Loosing the designated DR will hardly be noticed. There is a seldom used fireplace room ~21'x 13' with lots of windows that can be set up for larger extended family dining when necessary. The DR room will be turned into a bedroom. We need another bedroom because in our ~3000sq ft house we only have two bedrooms. Hope you can make sense out of all that.

The small dining area at the end of the kitchen will be great for 2-6 people. But even then it will be used maybe once a week. I flipped the two rooms because I crave light and views outside; my ideal house would be on a big country lot. Anyway, this way the prep area is all windows, and that is where I will spend nearly all my time. DH will hang out in the 3-season porch and with the kitchen windows open, we can talk when he is around. I'm sure we will eat on the porch most evenings. Access to the garden and a shorter trip from the garage to the kitchen and laundry to kitchen are also big pluses. I like it much better than the first layout. Anyway, there are only 40 inches between the support wall and the DR wall. That is not enough room for the 36" cooktop.

I probably missed something reading quickly through...
but looking at the first layout, could you put your cooktop
& ovens on the same side and flip your napanee, fridge &
storage to the opposite wall? If your napanee (don't remember
what this is used for sorry) is needed for prep, scoot it left and put
your cooktop in the middle. Fridge, ovens, storage on opposite wall?
I sure understand you flipping the rooms for the views and light!

I hear you on the craving light and views. I do too that's why I asked about the dining area not having the best view, but it makes sense given you won't be eating there often.

I do like how in the second layout cleanup and dishes are accessible to someone other than the cook, but the cooktop and wall oven are right in the main traffic area. Doesn't seem very safe.

How about, starting on the outside wall from the dining room wall, put the wall oven, then the 42" cooktop cabinet brought out 30" then the Kitchenet and then the food prep counter and prep sink the same as what you have in the second layout. Then on the inside wall from dining room wall working left to right, keep DW and sink in same place then integrate the 24" food storage with food storage/micro area, then lastly fridge next to the door. I hope this makes sense, if not I can draw it up.

It puts all cook/prep/baking related stuff along the L, protected by keeping traffic out of the cooks main work spaces, also rather efficient for a one cook kitchen. Then storage/cleanup/misc is along the other isle allowing others (DH) to get a snack or drink, use microwave, or cleanup (you should be so lucky, LOL) all out of the cooks way. Also, if I remember correctly, with your cooking method of getting everything out all at once, the storage not being directly next to prep areas isn't as critical.

Vicnsb, the Napanee Kitchenet is used constantly for prep and baking. The 32'' high counter is just perfect and will extend the prep countertop nicely. The family piece has been the source of lots of angst in getting the layout right. But, it is the most loved piece in my kitchen. It's got to stay ;D

I love your suggestions, Mom. Lots of prep space with the Napanee Kitchenet an integral part. I've separated the cooking area from the Kitchenet so no grease or splatters damage the antique. The side cabs have shelves open to the cooktop. That rascally support wall protrudes into the back wall. I'm not sure how deep the wall is. Two nooks in the backsplash will camouflage the wall.

The clean-up sink cabs are 36" deep so wall cabs can come down to the counter. The upper part could be deeper and the lower section shallower for more counter space. You are right, I like to collect everything at once that I need for prep. The storage on the opposite wall will be fine, and closer to the garage to put groceries away. I hope you like it too...

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

I think this kitchen would work very nicely! I'm glad you like it too.

I'm sure your achitect would know what you can do with that load-bearing wall and how to creatively hide the posts. If your lucky maybe you could put them in the wall. And maybe for not much more money you could recess the beam? If not I would recommend putting up false beams on the ceiling to make it look like an achitectural feature. Then you can tweek that stove area to work with whatever structure things have to be done.

Not sure if you are still working on the glass porch, but one other comment is if you can align your porch wall with the kitchen, you could run those big windows into the corner eliminating that tiny window. Then all the windows will have the same proportions giving that corner a more cohesive look.

Thanks for your help and your good eye. The architect has sized the beam to replace the load bearing wall. It's possible to use steel, but wood is less expensive and less complicated. She is planning to recess the post on inside wall into a stairwell. The post on the outside wall will not be recessed. The beam is the width of the crown molding, so we are running a piece of crown molding on each side of the beam. It kind of looks like a coffered ceiling without the cross piece.

It will be much better if the windows can all be the same size. Unfortunately, the porch wall can not be aligned with the kitchen wall because there is not enough space for the stairs. We have a strange lot. It is a triangle with the tip cut off. The town has a park in the point. The road behind the house angles making the lot narrower. There is not as much lot behind the new garage as there is behind the existing garage. So we will just see what fits and where for the windows.

Thanks again. I really appreciate your help. I hope you have a nice weekend.