There was a similar topic last year.

Here is a link that might be useful: Range At End Of Counter Run/Wall?

Does your building code allow this?

I have had a range at the end/corner right upto a wall/pillar. In the long run its a horrible place for a range and you will have issues while cooking, not to mention the occasional splash from a sauce or fat on the wall/pillar.

I think in general it's not a good idea, so there won't be a lot of pictures. If you post your layout you'll get lots of great ideas for alternate placement.

That being said, my old house had it. The stove wasn't in a traffic pattern. You can kind of see it in this pic.

Hmmm....can't find a photo like that in my collection.
Although that is how small u-shaped kitchens are often designed.
Usually it's at least a 10-12" cabinet next to them.

Like this:

Will the range be near the eating area? Or a sitting area?
I'm taking it that you mean the run will end and there's the range hanging out there on the edge?

I would personally like at least a 10" cabinet on that end.
Can you divide a larger one into two?

Does it have to end because of a window?

I agree, post your layout for fresh eyes for other optons.l This is a pretty big safety hazard and is to be avoided if at all possible. If you have a 7x10 NYC kitchen, you may not be able to avoid it, but there's sure to be other ideas with more exposure.

Well, it looks like aa62579 had the answer. From that picture, that looks like the same as your situation.

Other photos from that same kitchen:

This one has a small filler piece between the range and an end wall. I've seen better pics of this kitchen, but couldn't find one today.

aa62579 - thats what I am looking for.

I had posted my layout yesterday (or the day before) without much luck (but in all fairness, I was really asking about the possibility of closing a door then). I'll post again incase there are lots of new eyes in here.

My kitchen is small (I'm dealing with a 100 year old house). The main kitchen area is 10ft(w)x12ft(L) (this isn't including the hallway at the enterence, or the butler's pantry). This is the layout I currently have (and might be staying with).

The reason I am considering moving the stove is because where it currently is, there is only room for 12" on either side. Thats not alot of landing space, is useless and workspace, and isn't great for storage. Basically, I feel like that those two 12" sections are useless, and could potentially be 24" of useful space is layed out differently.

WHat I am considering doing is moving the stove to a spot that will allow a useful landing spot beside the range, and well and maximizing workspace. Moving the stove would allow the place where it used to be to become 54" of countertop workspace and storage.

We are keeping our vintage sink (which is a 42" drainboard sink). Its location in the layout is really the only place it can go while still being beside the dishwasher.

Here is the whole house for perspective (its been asked for before)

I think it is not as good that the counter run is actually a perpendicular counter since the range itself impedes your use of that space a bit--you have a dead corner there--but it does allow for much more landing or stove-side prep than the first layout.

I wondered how things were progressing for you, htracey. Now I see that my suggestion of going with a corner sink (in your other thread) won't work. Of course you want to keep the vintage sink!

I get your reasoning for relocating the range but I think it will be become a one-cook set-up because your range, unlike the one shown in aa62579's post, will be up against the corner. I suppose the 2nd cook could stand to the side in the aisle .... Is it critical that you have enough space for 2 to cook at the range at the same time? You'll definitely need to be aware of pot handles hanging over the edge in that aisle.

Are you including the required spacer cabinets between range and corner and between corner and perpendicular cabinets so that you can open range door/cab doors without hindrance? If not, that will use up a good chunk of the 3-4" of filler/counter between range and aisle and likely more than that on the adjacent cab run (you'll need enough spacer so that cab doors clear the range handle).

Are your windows to the right of the range (as placed in your current plan) counter height? How much clearance between range cab run and sink cab run do you have in your plan? Could you shift the range a bit and extend the base cabinets to the right of the range beyond the wall? Yes, it's not symmetrical but you may need to give up a bit of form to gain function. Just a thought.

Sheesh I just wrote all this and then my internet disconnected as it was posting! Oh well, here I go again:

I dont think there will be an issue with there being two cooks in the kitchen. WHen we are both working in the kitchen, we are usually splitting the duties by one of us doing the chopping and prepping and the other on stove duty.

As for spacing, this is what I am figuring:
I have 60 inches to work with, and I am allowing 25.5 inches for cabs & countertop and a little extra room for hardware. So I have 60"-25.5"-30" = 4.5". I figured 1.5" for countertop overhang and an error somewhere. That leaves me with 3".

The window where the stove is currently is high enough to allow cabs underneath. My favorite part of this potential layout is that the area where the stove used to be is large enough to allow for a 30" drawer base, and allow for 24" on either side of a corner (maybe even deeper if I wanted) for stools and in kitchen seating. That sold hubby so now I would have to convince him otherwise if its a bad idea.

Not sure that 1.5" of space between cabs perpendicular to the range is enough to open drawers and doors. Are you doing inset cabs? That would help since the door/drawer face sits flush with the cabinet box. Then you really would have 1.5" between cab and range (which may not be enough, no idea).

If you are doing overlay cabs, the drawer/door face sits on top of the cab face, usually about 1" deep. That means you only have .5" to spare between drawer or door front and the side of range. Sorry, I don't think it's enough. What does your cab maker say? Maybe he (or she) has tricks up his sleeve to help you out here.

Here is range we just installed on the end of a cabinet that was built before 1928. It never had a fire in it until we lit it off in our driveway to see if it was usable. The oven got over 400 degree so we tiled the area and installed it.

Bernie used one of her old cast iron skillets to cook me the first breakfast eggs in it's over 98 year existence. The oven got to 600 degrees and the kitchen was a comfortable 80 on a blustery fall morning.

We think we are going to like it a lot.

The floor and countertop are next. BnB

@BnB,

What kind of fuel does that range burn? I've never seen a anything quite like it.

Liriodendron

Liriodendron, it burns Wood or Coal.

The fire box door is to the left of the oven with the ash try beneath. BnB

@BnB

If it burns wood (and probably also for coal, though I have less experience with that fuel), I have some big concerns about how safe it may be since it appears to be nearly in contact with the tiled divider and also dangerously close to the wooden trim around the window, the cabinet, the wood counter, the table and the wall behind it.

I realize you have installed non-combustible materials on the surfaces beside, behind and underneath the stove (the tiles). If you are an experienced wood-burner you will understand my concern about that. Just applying non-combustible materials to combustible surfaces does nothing to protect against heat transfer/ignition and house fires. The non-combustible material will transfer the heat to the underlying materials in concealed spaces; tile does NOT insulate the wall-components from heat at all. Many people are confused about non-combustible materials (stuff which will not burn itself) and whether it will be fire-safe (not if it touches any material that will burn, like wood framing, sheet rock, flooring etc.)

Modern wood burning appliances come with a manufacturers' tested set of safe clearance distances. Your cute little stove probabaly doesn't have that, but it doesn't mean that it's safe to burn the way you have it set up.

In the olden days, stoves were parked out in the middle of rooms with clearances all around, not bunged up against walls to fit into our modern 24" deep counter runs. My wood-burning cookstove (before I moved it to the barn in favor of a modern airtight stove) sat a good two feet out from the nearest wall and was farther than that away from anything that would burn.

Distances from combustible surfaces vary among stoves. And the type of wall and stove pipe makes a difference too. The greatest clearance distances are needed by "unprotected walls" and "unprotected stove boxes and pipes". Protected does NOT mean simply covered with tile (or other material that is non-combustible itself), there is no differernce between a tiled wall and sheet rock or wooden paneling if the tile is touching any combustible component of the wall.

There are ways to reduce the clearance distances: a) have a panel on the back of the stove with an airspace of a couple of inches- stove pipe is the same; and b) have a noncombustible panel a few inches away from the wall (not touching, at all) behind the stove, above it and beside it in a corner installation. Both of these techniques can be used together to further reduce the clearance distances.

But even with these in place, you still are generally talking at least 4-8" in all directions. Without them you usually need 12-24" of clearance.

The floor is another place where your stove appears (in the photo) to be installed in an unsafe way. The floor in front needs a noncombustible panel, as well. But that piece can be in contact with the floor because it is just there to protect against sparks and coals that might fall out when fueling. However, underneath the stove body you may need more than tile to protect the combustible materials in the floor.

All in all, it looks like it would be a good idea to STOP using that stove until it has been inspected by your local building inspector or fire department for safety. The stove may work just fine, but how you have it set up now looks pretty dangerous to me.

I have been burning wood to heat my house (only source of heat) in northern NY for nearly 4 decades, so I appreciate how useful and pleasureable it can be. But I am also a retired Volunteer Firefighter and I have unfortunately been to a lot of house fires that were caused by improperly installed woodstoves. And even more unhappily, I have been to fatal house fires caused by woodstoves. And every time there are fuel price rises, more people start burning wood, often without understanding how critical things like safe clearance distances are. It seems common sense that tile would be adequately protective because it doesn't burn but it's not, because all it does is transfer the heat to hidden parts that will - and it's pretty good at the transfer, too!

Please, if you haven't had the stove installation inspected, do so before you light even one more fire. The stakes are too high to chance it. Your house and the lives of your family are at stake.

Sorry to be so emphatic, but I had to speak up!

Liriodendron

Hi Lisa,
We are doing inset cabinets. Hubby is pretty much sold on this idea, so I am going to have to see what the cab maker says. Even though I don't think it will be as visually pleasing, I do think it is more functional. Small kitchens are so challenging. I LOVE my old house, but sometimes I wish I had all the room in the world to do whatever I want!

Liriodendron, Thank you for your concern for us and others who might not think of the hazards. The tile is mounted on Hardiebacker over a layer of Micore. Both are non combustible. the Hardiebaker fasteners are as far away from the stove as possible to not have heat transfer to the wood it is fastened to. The stove pipe is double wall to the ceiling and from there up the pipe is rated for 2" clearance which we have maintained.

Originally the stove only sat on the 14" stand and had no way to keep it from moving in an earthquake. We bolted it, the base, to the stove and provide a way to fasten it to floor with studs. There is plenty of clearance there. There will be tile on the floor in front and sides as needed for safety.

Years ago we installed a zero clearance fireplace. It had three layers of sheet metal. The inner layer got hot causing the air between it and the next layer to raise creating a low pressure area where it connected to the outer layer which was open to the outside air at the top of the chimney. When the fireplace is in operation, the outer layer was the same temp as the outside air.

We installed studs on the base to hold a double layer of sheet metal which will be installed from the bottom to top of the stove with the spacers at the bottom for minimal heat transfer. This will provide three layers of air movement between the stove and any surface bringing cooler air from the floor and two layers to slow radiated heat. This will be on both sides and the back. This will be installed before we use it again as we have much the same concerns as you. This doesn't bring in outside air but we are confident the outside layer will be cool enough to touch which should be more than enough with the other precautions we took. We put Micore panels in those areas when we test fired it for those reasons.

We want to apologize for not giving a warning with our post about this type of installation. We spent a lot of effort, money and research time on this project. We came to the home forum looking for a forum which pertained to wood burning stoves. There was none. We checked the Kitchen Forum and found this post asking for a picture of a range at the end of a cabinet. We posted half as a joke and should have realized the harm we could have caused if someone did not understand the hazards of such a project.

Liriodendron, thanks again for your concerns, we hope this calms most of your fears for us. BnB

bob n bernie, I love your stove. I really wanted something like that but I don't ahve the patience to cook on wood all the time! Also - codes are really strict around here (the gas company wouldn't even hook up a vintage gas stove that I had). Everything HAS to be CSA approved for our home insurance to be valid (unfortuantly CSA has only been around since the '80s meaning no vintage stoves for us).

Hopefully your cabinet maker will have good news for you. I am especially curious how he'll make accessing the blind corner cabinet work for you. I would think you'd have a pretty large spacer between that cab's opening and range cabs but I've never dealt with a situation like you have so I really don't know for sure. Pity you can't access that corner storage from the hallway.

If you find that moving the range to that wall won't work and you're back to having it on the window wall, maybe a flip-up counter like this:

will help your situation. It's temporary, of course, and it doesn't address storage issues but it does provide additional counter when needed. You could even scoot the range farther from the wall, putting it off center so that you can maximize storage - 12" cab goes to 18" while the 12" cab on the other side becomes a 6" spice/oil pull-out - and put the flip-up counter to use only when you are at the range. I saw this flip-up counter at the Kohler Design Center in Kohler, WI this summer. Very cool place, lots of great ideas.

Maybe you could even do something like this with the range placed where you're considering it. You won't be able to have it as wide - not without seriously impinging on your aisle to the butler's pantry - but even an extra 8"-10" might come in handy.

@BNB

I am impressed by the care and attention you have put into your set up. Since you have done that then I know you know why I was so concerned by how the stove/hearth looked in the photo.

Because of my background in wood-burning and firefighting I am the self-appointed, woodstove fire safety nag of the Kitchen Forum. Long-time readers know I am forever fussing about clearances, and surface protection, when people propose to put in a stove.

Stoves look so charming and generally are so attractive that it's easy to forget the sheer bloody-mindedness of the fire that you've got penned up inside that box. You cannot afford to take your attention away from the awful possibilities. In our modern, safety precaution hemmed-in world (e.g. warnings on dry cleaner bags that the can suffocate you -duh!) it's easy to lose sight of the level of risk a woodburning appliance adds to your household.

I debated to myself about posting regarding your litle stove; I could see you had made a very tidy, workmanlike, safe-looking connection to your ceiling thimble, so it seemed likely you were equally aware of the other exposure risks. But because the picture didn't show the underlying protections, I decided I needed to ask abbout it in case someone else saw the pic and modeled their installation only on what was visible. You did no bad thing, and needn't apologize; your cheerfull response to my concerns and full description of all you did to set it up safely really helps reinforce my concerns about safety. Thank you!

BTW, there is a forum devoted to alternative energy for the home which is where most stove queries land. Just scroll to the top and choose Home forums on the forum drop-down list and then select Alternative Energy forum from the next list.

(And my apologies to Htracey for this little detour into stove safety. I hope you don't mind! Now back to our regular kitchen layout discussions.)

Liriodendron

My kitchen is set up differently, but my range is right up against my peninsula. If I have a filler piece between my range and corener cabinets, it is small. I'll try to measure it sometime.

This isn't to scale, but it is a quick work up of how that corner is situated. Cabinets, sink cabinet, small filler, dish washer, small filler, free-standing range, blind corner cabinet. I have no more trouble getting into that blind corner cabinet than I do to the one on the other side of the room.

I tried a few things maybe you've considered already. I'm not getting you much more space beside the range no matter what I do, but turning it gives you access, still, to the butler's pantry counter and gets the range in a more protected spot.

I also tried moving the fridge, which would give you so much more counter by the sink. I know you are trying to keep that window that was by the stove, and know it isn't fantastic to have the fridge 2 ft in front, but I thought I'd just offer something to consider.

1)

2)

3)

4) This one would need the wall extended a bit behind the range:

Liriodendron, I thank you again for your response and caring about safety. I appreciate the fact you are a nag. I have some things I speak too for the same reason.

I mentioned the Zero clearance fireplace. I didn't mention that it didn't take long to figured out that unless you were standing in front of it, it didn't do much good. We bought an insert built by the same manufacturer. It has been our primary source of heat in the winter for over 30 years. We have a couple of wall fan heaters but they don't come on once it gets cold enough to light the insert until we let it die in the spring.

You mentioned the ceiling thimble. It was made to be a snap fit. It would probably stay together but I made three angle clips and screwed it together for earthquakes or a cleaning brush being forced through the bends.

Thanks again, Never apologize for doing what you think is right. I will check the other forum. Bob

What about a corner-angled stove? Normally those are huge space sucks, but in your case you would at least have more access to the remains of the butler pantry.

If you did that, I'd consider a movable cart in the other corner, or some kind of cabinetry that includes one.

Something like this?

Yes, that's more or less what I was thinking. Without dimensions I can't tell if it actually functions. It does protect the stove. But maybe the stove should pull forward a smidge and the side cabs should be parallel to it, so at least some drawers can go in there?

This idea has potential but it also requires finesse and careful planning to get it right. Kelly Morisseau, CMKBD and blogger at Kelly's Kitchen Sync has written about this situation several times. Here's one of her blog posts, A Design Reader Asks: Help with range in the corner?

htracey, do a search for "corner range" at her blog if you want to see more posts on this topic.

Just wanted to show you this kitchen which I've always liked for the use of space. I think that if you could have the frig where the stove is currently, you'd have more usable kitchen. I have 42" of space that I thought I'd use all the time, but because it's not adjacent to the stove or sink, I don't. It does however make a great place for the electric kettle, toaster, and mixer. I could see using Rhome's #2 with a pullout pantry next to fridge.
http://jenswrens.smugmug.com/gallery/6622977_mJK9v#488891159_hJUnQ

Here is a link that might be useful: jenwrens kitchen

How much room is in between the sink and the refrigerator?

Would there be room to do this layout? You would lose some space to fillers on the outside and between each item...Sure you don't want to go to a smaller sink??

SINK -- DISHWASHER -- RANGE -- SMALL CABINET/DRAWERS

(and move the fridge over to the area where the stove was)

If there was enough space, that would give you 24" on one side (above the dishwasher) and then enough room on the other side for pan handles... Without exact measurements, hard to say if there would be enough room here for that (and if there were any code spacing). That would give you a good landing area and then you could still do your prep on the counter behind it.

Marcolo thought of it first. Although I wouldn't normally suggest it, setting the stove into a diagonal counter would gain you valuable work space around the stove. How about getting some cardboard and mocking that counter up? You could try setting the stove back like that and pulling it forward varying degrees, even flush, to see how it worked. You could also build a niche across the corner behind the stove to hold oils and such. It would be right next to a very good extra-deep work counter to the left, also.

I'll play around the the diagonal idea this weekend. I just did some quick trigonometry and that solution might work (unless I have overlooked something).

If someone wants to check my math:
The two walls leading into the corner are 60" long each. I'm working with a 30" range (which is about 28" deep).
As Pythagoras would have it, my stove and the triangular corners leading up to the stove (as well as the wasted space in the back) would take up 33.82" of the wall space on each side of the corner. I'll round that to 34" for good measure. This would leave me 26" on either side to work with.

That sounds like alot! I was expecting less. Does anybody see any glaringly obvious errors?

A quick sketch-up of my calcs showed me whats wrong - I assumed I could push the stove as far back as possible, but doing so would have the doors sitting to far back in comparison with the edge of the countertop.

Back to the drawing board...

I recalculated. With the amount I would have to slide the stove out, I would only have room for a 15" cabinet on each wall. Given that the other layout was going to give me a corner cab with an 18" door, and 14" cab, I can't justify giving up the storage space.

Wait! I think there is some confusion here. The layout I am proposing will have not effect at all on the butler's pantry. The original drawing may not have been clear, but the butlers pantry is a completely different room (there is a wall that runs between the two counter surfaces).

All these years later and I came across your post on Google because I am having the same dilemma. What did you decide?

@htracey @kel_kat5 I'm also suffering the same dilemma, and am wondering what happened!

We built more wall so that we could add an 18” cab.

@kel_kat5 really appreciate the update <3

@aa62579 You posted so long ago, so not sure if you're still around or will see this, but your photos show my exact kitchen situation. I am planning to move my range over 4.5" to the left, as it's right by the frame of a doorway currently. How did you get that 3-4" filler piece to be stable (and is it stable)? Was it secured to both the floor and wall? I'm hoping to build a 4" "cabinet" with a pull out rack for cutting boards, cooking oils, foil and baking paper, etc.