I am sorry you are so stressed. I can only recommend that if your KD is not listening to you, then this is not the right person for the job. You know what you need/want.
It may cause you less anxiety to start fresh with someone else - even though this has been going on for a long time.

I can tell you my KD took about three weeks from giving dimensions to three different designers, to chosing a designer to work with and ordering the cabinets.

I can answer your question about toe-kicks, though. They can always be addd later. My cabinets were installed and the toe kicks put on after my floors were refinished.

Good Luck

A couple of comments about function: The dish storage and dw are too far apart for me. I think the aisle in front of the dw looks a little tight, but it looks like the island could shift a few inches and make the difference needed. I thought you used the Napanee for baking? It's a long way from the oven...although you've written something about a small oven on that wall, but I don't see one.

My personal preferences regarding door and window trims: Give them their space and a little beyond so it doesn't look like you are crowding everything to get every fraction of an inch. It's like a margin around/between elements and the open space is necessary as a breather/separation...Like punctuation in writing. Where there should be door trim and window trim next to each other, I think (?) you're asking if you should leave room for the width of both or just one... Both. In traditionally styled or period homes, the casework is important and shouldn't be crowded out or eliminated...Again, my opinion, but it's one of those things that means a lot to me and I think makes a big difference in the appearance of a room/house interior.

I like the tin separated into 3 sections, and like the proportions of the hood panel to the cabs flanking the hood, as shown. I wouldn't have the cabinets above the hood be 24" deep...Too heavy, I think.

I think the only cabinet taller than the fridge wall cabs are the ones over the hood? If it bothers you, you could easily have that one at the same height. I think it might look odd if it's the only thing that tall.

Is the window to the right of the stove a different size than those to the left? My first response is that since they appear to be different sizes and the ones on the left are in a different room, I'd like to see twice (or more) the distance between the cabinet and the dining room window than the distance of the cabinets from the kitchen window. But it's really hard to tell from these drawings.

I hope that was at least a little help or close to the kind of answers you were looking for.

Someone who posted a wonderful kitchen just recently had toekicks in the work area, and didn't have them on the non-work wall, like your fridge wall. I thought it was a good compromise. Without them, you'll be bumping your toes and damaging whatever part of the cabinet is along the floor, I think.

chef, Thanks for your encouragement! We have settled on this particular custom cabinetmaker, and the KD drawings are for pricing and eventually shop drawings. Changing probably is not an option. Actually this KD has listened more than the others I was considering. Toe kicks, to have or not to have, that is the question :) I like the look and ease of cleaning when the cabinet comes straight down to the floor, like a piece of furniture. I think the cabinets are built with toe kicks and a piece of trim is added to close the toe kick.

rhome, I agree the aisle width in front of the DW looks too narrow. There are no dimensions for some of the individual cabinets and no aisle widths noted on the drawings. The island could move toward the DR a little. The DW is at one end of the kitchen and dish storage at the other. Clean dishes will land on the island and go to the dish cabinet from there. Again, not ideal. It does keep all the dishes, breakfast/beverage bar and staging for serving in one area. Everything needed to set the table is near (in) the dining room. Serving dishes will be hear the cooktop.

:-D I am glad you don't see the little oven! The cabinet next to the fridge has the small oven and MW behind pocket doors right next to the Nap cabinet. The drawers below have everything for storing food and baking. The KA mixer and breakmaker are in the island end cabinet. It opens on both sides for access during food prep on the cooking side and baking on the fridge side. Very little baking is done in the full size oven.

I have a picture of an Arts and Crafts hood by Crown Point inspiring my hood. The hood is has little glass doors (look of stacked cabinets). That look is what I asked for. But this is the second time the design has come back with another KD preference! Lowering the top of the hood even with the height of the other cabinets would look better.

I am not sure what we will do in the DR. We are thinking about a fireplace either on the outside wall or in the nook (that is not on the plans) in the lower left side of the room. I won't worry about trying to achieve symmetry that includes a DR window.

On the sink wall, the windows and door wood look like one unit, similar to a door and side lights. That's why i was thinking only one width of trim. Your point is well worth considering, thanks.

I have tried to really watch where my toes are when I am working in the kitchen. I haven't noticed them under the toe kick at all. I guess the sink and cooktop could have 'furniture' feet. Hmmm...

It would probably help you be sure if you put something in your toekicks and see if you bump them, or have any other trouble.

If it's to look like a door and sidelights (I misunderstood before), I think it only needs to be one width.

I'll try to help as best I can. I had trouble reading many of the notations but I'll give it a shot.
1. I don't think it would look odd to have cabs at different heights. However, I might stagger the height of the cabs especially on the side it's higher to make it less noticeable.
2.How high are your ceilings? I wouldn't drop them down if your at 8'already.
3. Couldn't you just add bun feet on some pieces and mix it up... toe kicks where it makes the most sense? I think it would add to an unfinished kitchen look.
Sink Wall:
1. I'm having a hard time picturing the trim thing. I would trust rhomes' opinion on everything and especially that.
2. The clearance on your DW should be fine.
Cooking Wall:
1. I would suggest some space between the window and open cabinet but not necessarily between the two cabinets.
2. I don't think the space between the hood and windows on either side have to be exact. You have balance with the two windows on the left side and window open cab on the right. Balance is more important then exact symmetry.
3. Panels should be even on the hood with the base. 24" is standard and important for good capture.
4. From what I can see and what I understand your asking... I prefer 3 smaller sized punched tin panels because it mimics the three panels shown on the hood.
5. I would make the individual door panels on either side of the hood wider then the panels in the hood itself. That would help differentiate the hood and allow it to become more of a focal point. If there all the same I think it would look more "confusing".
6. I wouldn't fill in 9" flanking the oven cab. Could you do a 9" pullout for oils/spices?
Kitchenette:
1. By pocket doors do you mean those that pull out and slide back into the cab itself? I know it takes up interior space but saw those recently on another thread and thought it was a very clever idea.

I'm just addressing the questions you asked. Others here are better then I am at layout function. However, if you're aware of what would typically be considered a barrier or what others would see as inconvenient; then all should work well for you.

I'm just sorry that your so frustrated. This should be an exciting time... building a dream kitchen. Just take a breath and a break. Enjoy the Holiday with your family and attack it again later.
I hope this helps you some!
Elyse

Cotehele, much of your current stress and distress are coming from feeling helpless and out of control. I know, I've been there. I've also had people absolutely ignore what I wanted. My only regrets come from setting aside what I wanted for what others thought was best. And I do not like your "KD." The only person I had who specifically ignored what I asked for I canned and replaced with someone else--definitely one of the things I did right. I didn't pay for the last two sets of drawings that weren't what I asked for, either. Return this set of drawings and order the design you specified in the first place. Period. Once you have your design in front of you to analyze, you can then move forward with any adjustments you decide, with or without the KD's assistance, you want to make.

Regarding your porch door/window trim, sounds good, or even just use one piece of trim for both, like my daughter-in-law's 100-year-old home has where a bookcase adjoins a doorway. Custom fittings made to suit the preferences and situation of the moment are part of the charm of old houses and what sets them off from today's too-usual usual.

Since this door doesn't seem to be part of an important view line or major trafficway through your home, IMO it really doesn't matter very if the dishwasher comes pretty close to it if you need the inches on the other side of the door.

Regarding the beam, I don't know, but most old cabinets that are attached to the walls in old houses don't look like boxes nailed to the walls but rather more like a single unit with the wall, and I'd choose for a fairly monolithic look.

Toe kicks? As suggested, do short ones at your main work areas. They can be charming details but in any case will be out of sight on most view lines anyway.

Hood details and flanking cabinets? Get the drawing you asked for in front of you and see what you think. Seriously. We all have our differing preferences, and the only time there's only one right way to do something is when you're copying the Parthenon.

rhome, I have taped off and moved cabinets to try different plans, but never thought of closing off the toe kick! Thats a good idea.

I didnÂt know how to explain the door and window trim. Maybe a better explanation is a window wall because the windows stop at the counter. I could use the French doors rather than the single door. It would make the opening larger to the porch. With the windows up and the door open, the porch would feel like part of the kitchen.

Elyse, the ceiling is 10Â. I am leaning toward full-height cabinets on the refrigerator side. Would the beam running directly into the crown molding look OK? Wonder if the beam should be painted ceiling color or wrapped in cherry veneer. The beam in the picture is wood.

I want this hood in a simpler style - not Arts and Crafts. My cabinets donÂt have the middle rail or the bracketed crown.

Rather than the slats (which would be a chore to keep clean!) the spice box drawer fronts are repeated from my open shelves to the right. The bottom will be 24ÂÂ deep and the cabinet panels will be 16-18ÂÂ deep. My hood has punched tin rather than glass. The Crown Point example has narrow cabinet on each side of the hood, but separated from the hood by a few inches. I like the look. The KD wants the side cabinets wider (by 1/3 as she has it drawn). I think that destroys the effect of the hood and cabinets being, gosh I donÂt know the word, but it looks like an artistic grouping rather than just wall cabinets. I donÂt need the storage; I donÂt have any idea what is going in the cabinets so they donÂt need to be big.

The punched tin doors on the cabinets on either side of the refrigerator pull out and slide into the sides of the cabinet. The cabinets are sized to allow for the door storage. I really want the pie safe effect.

Rosie, I appreciate your thoughts! It helps. I am struggling with putting aside my vision, I donÂt want to! I have to work with this designer because she works for the custom cabinet maker. It is from her drawings that the shop builds the cabinets. She just needs to draw what I want. grrrrr! No money changes hands until we sign the contract to have the cabinets made. I am at the point that I want to sit next to her when she is drawing and say, ÂthatÂs not what I want! make it this way... I have lost so much time and it just feels like wasted time and effort when it takes so long and itÂs still not right.

Thanks everyone!

I would think the beam wrapped in veneer would look beautiful and net you a more rustic look. I don't know if that is part of your vision.

Have you ever sat next to her and said.. please change this to this... eliminate this here.... add this here... and so forth. Tell her those are the changes YOU want and to please stick to your vision so you can all move forward. Ask her how long to complete the new drawing with the changes you both just specified. Then make an appointment right there for the agreed upon date to review that they are as you detailed. Make sure you make a copy of the revised layout before she/he takes it to complete the final drawing.

Elyse, She was in my kitchen with her laptop about a month ago. We made some changes then. I flipped the refrigerator and cooking walls after that. This is the first plan I've seen since her visit. You know, she asked me what I thought the construction date would be and slowed down after I told her it would not be until the new year. I also said we could not move forward without the kitchen plan. Ironic she is taking her time and holding everyone up, including her own business.

What a difference a day makes. With live wire oak's help and an hour on the phone with the cabinetmaker's KD, I have a plan I am happy with and promises of e-mailing changes by tomorrow. Many thanks (gosh I typed thinks- that is applicable too!) to Live Wire Oak! (How Big is too Big thread.)

The fireplace repairmen came today :) It needs a new valve :(
The downstairs is cleaner than yesterday :) And, the laundry is done :-D

DH has tomorrow off work, We are going to see the new James Bond movie and eat dinner out. Happy Thanksgiving to you all!!

We gave up using a KD after going to numerous ones and none following through and it was a nightmare - finally grabbed the Kraftmaid book and did it myself and ordered it... worked out well :) Now, had I known live wire oak, I might have tried to see if she'd do long distance but I didn't find this site till after we were a chunk done.... but with all that said... humm... why on earth are you sticking with these people if the only way they listen is with a wonderful stranger's help off a website ...if they can't listen till now and her help, I only worry about future problems. I know she didn't help looking for business, but if she knows what you want and has a good plan, would it be worth using her and getting it done right (hopefully)?

cotehele I am so glad that you were helped! I could not
offer anything close to the great advice here, but I felt so
bad for your discouragement! I think we started about the
same time and I have watched your plan throughout...
hope you enjoyed the film and dinner out! We did the same
thing that night!
vic

pcjs, your kitchen looks great! What kind of wood are your cabinets? I love the stain-it's close to what I want, too.

it is a challenge to start with a vague notion of the dream kitchen and find a way to accomplish the real thing. If I had known at the start what it took for to get to this point, hiring Live Wire Oak would have been a smart move! Hopefully the design phase is at the end. Sticking with the cabinet maker is the best choice for me because they do such fantastic work. There are not very many options for custom near my neck of the woods. The other ones couldn't come near staying within my budget. I looked at Kraftmaid and Diamond cabinets, even had plans done at Lowes for both companies. They just couldn't make it work with the cabinet sizes and options.

Vic, thanks! Hope you enjoyed your fun day, too. Our day out is tomorrow :)

Ours are Kraftmaid with Ginger Glaze in Cherry - I actually couldn't find the stain/wood anywhere and ended up guessing at the combination after a year of frusteration like you and ordered a sample door at Home Depot and brought it home and that was it. (Till the great granite search). I found the door style when we were house shopping and I never looked at any other company's as I was determined to have the door style which fits the house well as its simple. A year later, we are still very happy. I wouldn't rely on them to do my kitchen plan... I tried, gave up, got the Kraftmaid book, studied it for weeks, and did my own plan... went to Just Cabinets, guy tweeked it, ordered it and greatfully, everything fit (with my husband's measurements). I was told by several "kitchen designers" there were no creative ways to work around a door and they gave me a standard cabinet when Kraftmaid had a pretty stepdown one, which was also perfect as I wanted a tray cabinet and couldn't fit one in - it works perfectly. Custom just seems like too much drama for me. If you like our stain, you could order a sample Kraftmaid door and bring it to them. The name has changed though... same thing. But, only do the glazing if you have grooves to highlight - we had to pay a upcharge but for our cabinets it was worth it and in a small kitchen it wasn't a huge difference.

Maybe one of these years we'll finish our kitchen and paint it and do other stuff (moved on to other rooms as we are 90% done) but at least it gives me an excuse to hang out here.

Good luck!

Your cabinets are so pretty, I am happy to know they are cherry. I have picked out the wood, door style and stain I think I want from the cabinet maker's door samples. It is similar to yours. You did a fantastic job on your kitchen. I didn't realize it was unfinished :) Nice place to hang out.

Months ago I, too, got spec books for Kraftmaid and Diamond cabinets. When I went to Lowes I had already laid out the kitchen as close as I could get to what I wanted. When they priced the two lines, I knew more about the cabinets than the salesman did! Just couldn't make it work. There was only about $5,000 difference between the Lowes price and the preliminary estimate for custom.