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Seeking feedback/approval of overall kitchen/addition layout

14 years ago

Thank you very much in advance for any and all feedback!

Background info: My husband and I live in a dutch colonial/split home. The main living area consists of a cathedral ceiling with the living room in front (faces west & the street), with the dining/kitchen areas behind it (faces east & the back yard). Kitchen problems: There is a wall abutting the fridge on the right can't be opened past 90 degrees - can't remove the lower freezer drawer to clean it. Only 12" counter to the left, then the range not enough room to unload groceries, make a sandwich, etc. We are always using the range like a counter not good when hot! There is very little counter space overall, and the cabinet space is inadequate as well. There is a 5 1/2' peninsula separating the kitchen and dining room areas, but it is only 1' wide, which is inadequate when used as a serving buffet for guests. We eat all our meals at the dining room table, which is fine for the 4 of us (incl. 2 teenagers), but during the holidays it gets quite cramped, as we send the second table into the living room area, which already has a Christmas tree, sofa, loveseat, coffee table you get the idea. My desk area is very inadequate as well it is currently housed in a small computer armoire in the living room.

We are planning an addition behind the current kitchen/dining room areas, where a very old deck is now (24' wide as per our current rooms width, and extending back 18' limited by septic). Our initial intention was to extend the kitchen in that direction, and to provide more space to send a 2nd table back into the addition when entertaining, as opposed to it taking up living room space. However, because of the cathedral ceiling, the posterior wall is load bearing, and cannot be fully removed without extensive work that is not practical. We will need to keep at least portions of the wall, possibly with a supporting post; final determination to be made by an architect. The kitchen can't be extended that way, though, because of the change roof angles it would look like you are in 2 rooms at once. Therefore, the addition does need to be defined as it's own space. We want to add a family room area on the left side of the addition with a gas fireplace in the NW corner, a TV beside it (there is no TV in the living room, only downstairs where the kids hang out), and some comfortable furniture it will be a much needed and welcomed space. We want the back wall of the addition to have big windows overlooking the backyard. I tried layouts where we moved the whole kitchen to the SW area of the addition, but because of the family room area it was too cramped; it also didn't look right with the windows (my husband has a basic architect program where we can lay everything out and see it in 3D). It made the most sense to put the dining area on the SW side instead. A second table can be accommodated if the tables are placed diagonally in that space when needed. For the kitchen, we extended it into the current dining area location, and added an enlarged desk area (8') for us on the south wall where the kids have a very small one now.

Regarding the kitchen: I would like to keep the open entrance by the stairs as is convenient to get into the kitchen coming in with groceries, I can see out to the front picture window when the kids' bus is coming, etc. To the left of that is a 5' wide 6' high partial wall that partially separates the living room and kitchen areas. I like the separation, and would make the wall longer as needed towards the dining area, but not shorter. In this arrangement, I have 3' counter to the left of the cleanup sink (moved left from current sink location). Planning garbage pullout under cabinet next to sink; this area would be a half wall with header (and post on left end if needed) so I could see out to family/dining room (and backyard in the distance). Dishwasher would be to the right of the sink and would start a full supporting wall to the end of cabinet run. 2 feet to right of dishwasher for room to unload it to cabinets above and right. 5or6' x 18" pantry closet storage on dining room side of this wall for spare dry goods, occasional use appliances, etc. Range remains in current location (MW w/ hood will be above it). It will be the only appliance along that wall, with several feet of counter/cabinet space on either side. Fridge moved, as per picture, with counter space next to it, and widened 7' long peninsula with seating on far side. Does addition of prep sink as per picture make sense? Any major issues with this layout? Have given it MUCH thought over past 4 months; this is the best layout we came up with.

Current Layout

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Proposed Layout

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Comments (9)

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    The first thing I can see is that your pathways into the kitchen look too tight. But I think you are headed toward a good layout in general!

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I certainly agree with Corgi mom that your kitchen entries/exits are far too tight. If you move the fridge and peninsula 1 ft to the left, to increase that doorway to at least 3 ft, that would be much better. That move and shortening the peninsula or the cleanup run by 1 ft would remedy the top corner entrance problem.

    I'd want to switch the dw to the other side of the sink to keep it from creating a hazard for the cook.

    Do you car that guests will have quite a trek past or through the kitchen and your family space to get to the dining room table?

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Thanks a lot for the feedback. I appreciate it so much. The entry to the kitchen is 21/2' wide(no door). We've been here 15 yrs and it's never been a problem, but we could easily move it over a foot to the left. A question with that is we're going to have stools on the far side of the peninsula that would then be a bit less than 5' from the desk area - what is the minimum clearance you would suggest there? (If I do move it over, that makes the other pass through larger by a foot as well, which is good.)
    Re. the sink/dishwasher, we have to keep some length of a full wall there (load bearing), so if I switch them, then there is a full wall in front of the sink. With the current plan, I have a half wall starting at the sink, so I could see/converse with family/dining areas while cleaning up. Not sure what to do about that?
    I see your point about the dining room table as well; tried layouts where there was an entry to the dining room where the pantry closet is in the proposed layout, but then the sink/dishwasher were floating in the middle, with a tighter, maze-like passthrough by the desk area, and the peninsula would have to be so much shorter. What do you think? Thanks again.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Have you thought about putting your dining room in the front...and having a bigger living area in the back? Kind of a library/dining room combination, with comfy reading chairs that can be pulled up to the dining table, when more people are visiting.

    The piano (?), dining table and chairs, and a few other chairs (maybe with a small table) would all fit in the front area. Some bookcases would be a great addition, too. The two reading chairs could be a little larger, for conversation, or host/hostess chairs at the table...when you need more room.

    Is that a fireplace in the corner of the familly room? The room is big enough and a fireplace would look wonderful, if it's in the budget!

    The kitchen layout is very nice, but I agree that the entrances are both a little tight. Making the main sink counter longer (maybe with a few stools) would be a great way to tie the kitchen into the family room. The other peninsula could be shorter, making a bigger entrance on that side. You could actually seat more people and no one is caught in the middle with the 'tennis match' feel...turning your head back and forth, trying to make conversation.

    The two pairs of stools are close enough, they can still converse and one side could be for homework/snacks, while the other could be more of a 'beverage area' during parties.

    I like the two sinks, placement of the appliances and can see you've put a LOT of thought into your plan. It's going to be beautiful, when you finish :)

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Thank you. We discussed in passing having the dining room table in the front (makes sense to have one dining area, one kitchen area, one good size living area as opposed to 2 smaller ones), and we are willing to think outside the box, but that is the only layout combo we haven't seriously considered yet, as we didn't think you could really have the dining room in front of your house??? Coming in the front door, there is an entryway with a den to the right. You can come up a few stairs to the left to the living room. We have nice big picture windows in the front(west) and on the south side (will be bay windows next week!). I love to sit on the sofa in the afternoon with the sun coming in - would definitely want some type of seating in front of that window. The rectangle on the front left is actually the china cabinet already (looks fine there) and front right rectangle in proposal is a bookcase that I want to bring back up from downstairs, so I'm already integrating a couple of those ideas. If like you said it was warmed up to be a "library/dining" feel maybe we should give it a try on the computer? Still just feels "weird" to me?
    Yes, that's a piano, and yes, we're proposing a gas fireplace in that back corner - we'd love it!
    If the dining room was moved, could take your suggestion about making the main sink counter longer with stools on the family room side (thought of that too, but with the current layout, might be too cramped with the proposed furniture layout). But as you said, the peninsula would need to be shortened, and I was really hoping for a decent length to use as a serving buffet (feel like our current 51/2' length isn't long enough. The area to the left of the sink would be a depository for dirty dishes, glasses, etc. til they get moved, so not good for buffet. Thanks to all again for your thgouthfull feedback.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    You say the depth of the current deck is limited by the septic system. If you haven't already, check to see how close you can build your foundation to the septic. In my area, there is one distance for a basement foundation and another (10 feet, I think) for a slab.

    Our neighbors have a split that had a layout similar to yours and had to extend out the side rather than out back because of the septic. They put a formal dining room on the side and made the kitchen and dining room into a large eat-in kitchen.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I didn't mean to swap the sink and dw, but to put the dw on the other side of the sink...so the sink stays where it is and still has open wall.

    We have 30" doorways and they work fine for us, too...But kind of tunnel-like with the fridge right up against it?

    I would recommend 5 ft between peninsula and desk...I think that's the recommended for between back to back seating. Should leave about 30" in between if both places are used at once...Will they be used at the same time?

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Re. septic, we recently had the property surveyed, and have spoken with the town sanitarian, so we know what we have to do in that regard (addition to the side = too close to neighbor's property; we have an acre & most of it is in the back).
    Great point about "tunnel-like" if the fridge is there, hadn't considered that. Yesterday, I tried to start all over again taking everyone's feedback into consideration. Harder than a Rubic's cube! Am now thinking it makes sense to shorten the addition wall jutting out on the left from 3' to 2' (would definitely need support post/wall somewhere in the middle), put the dining room table a few feet out from the left side picture window (if you look at our current layout, it's really just moving it a few feet fwd, wouldn't feel like it's right in the middle of the living room, and I'm flexible with what the living room furniture would consist of - know I could make that work). That leaves an open run from the left living room area to the addition to adjoin a second table for company, but now the peninsula doesn't work - too close to the table/s. Also, move the desk area to the back right wall side of the addition where I had proposed the dining rooom table, and put a pantry cabinet or closet where the desk proposal is instead (I do like the desk that way more in back of the house). Major problem now is that the kitchen seems to be getting too small again?!
    Revised kitchen layout proposal??? I'd be happy to keep the sink and range generally where they are now (DW is to left of sink); do want to see into the addition while at the sink - that run of counter could be half wall with support post/wall near middle (but lose upper cabinets unless have thick header with small high cabinets above), or it could be full wall with pass through window-like opening above sink. However if the window is too small it doesn't look right, but the bigger it is, the more upper cabinets are lost; move the fridge anywhere it makes sense; would love an island - a peninsula seems more realistic - main function as a serving buffet with a couple stools on the far side; and although I see the benefits of a prep sink, I've never had one - am willing to do without.
    I've been working on this for 4 months now; can't believe how hard it is! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Addenum: It may be possible to have the sink countertop run positioned on the other side of the addition "wall" (using a support post in the middle), if that makes sense. The length of the range wall would then be 13' vs. 11'. If we extend the kitchen any further than that into the addition, it wouldn't feel right with the changes in roof/ceiling lines - like you are in two rooms at once.