I hear you! I tend to get really obsessed with a hobby and then drop it two seconds later--currently I'm into "housewife" things like trying to make the perfect dress, and trying memorize a little verse or poem to match each household chore to make it less boring, and so on--yet my rose habit has been going strong for nearly five years! I actually enjoy reading about roses just as much or more than growing them.

I've wanted a resource exactly like you describe: pictures of blooms are so easy to find, "bush shots" not so much.

To be fair, I've found that it can be hard to take an accurate picture of the whole plant, especially one that really gives you a sense of height. I wouldn't think the leaves are so hard to find pictures of; don't most pictures of blooms have leaves in the background?

But I know what you mean about how the flowers grow out from the plant, like I thought Austin roses were mostly the same, but my Crocus Rose grows so upright and the leaves are small and dull; others grow like little Hybrid Teas; and still others like Abraham Darby grow in a nice lush droopy way.

I'm away from home, but I was actually planning to do a "realistic" sort of post showing what my rose bushes look like, being in a cold zone and receiving little care. Wish more people would!

I love seeing pictures that show the very very best a given variety is capable of, but anything below that, it's like, stop staging and just show something REAL!

Actually, I don't think I answered your question: no, lol, I'm not really interested in the leaves very much, except how they match or don't match the flower.

Msdorkgirl:
I think there are many people like you (myself included), that are interested in rose leaves and other parts of a rose plant as well such as hips and thorns and sepals. You can find photographs on HMF from time to time. Here is a link to a photograph of new leaf growth on Annie Laurie McDowell, a climber that I have. The photo was taken by Jay-Jay.

Here is a link that might be useful: New leaf growth of ALMD on HMF

That sort of information would be soooo helpful! I can't tell you how many times I thought, "what are the thorns like on this rose?". I learned this year that I REALLY don't want super thorny roses (Deep Secret and Hot Cocoa cured me of that!). I also have had many worries about odd new growth that was probably normal for my roses. I ended up just clipping off the growth so I could stop worrying without bugging the people here with seventeen threads about "is this growth on this rose bad?".

Oh the "joys" of being a newbie when everyone talks about RRV ;)

On a side note: If you buy a band of Hot Cocoa or Deep Secret, at some point expect a really thorny cane to come out - apparently that's normal!

I plan on doing just that with the roses in my garden. I will probably start with my own plants. But out local garden has a good variety if more currant HTs one thing needed are clear photos that show the scale I have an idea of whT I would like but have not found it. Guess I will have to create one of my own and you can tell me what you think

Ok, so do we have an agreement that we will take pictures of the leaves/stems/thorns and post them on Help Me Find? And maybe keep track of the ones that are posted on here?

This all came about because my Remember Me rose plant grew some brand new leaves that are TOTALLY different looking from the old leaves (I just bought it last month). It would be helpful to know whether or not it's normal or abnormal.

Another instance a leaf/cane/overall plant photo shoot of roses would be helpful - identification of a particular plant that looks similar to other plants, or if you're a lazy, unsuccessful propagator like me, you can look up leaves because you didn't label the 20 cuttings because you only end up with one that succeeds anyway --- anywho, I'm glad I'm not the only one.

PS The rose obsession has racheted up a notch these past couple of months, but I bought my first 5 bushes at the same time about two years ago, I think. Touch of Class is the only one that survived.

Here's that Remember Me leaves picture ... the pic quality is horrible because I don't know how to post better quality one.

Anyway, I tried a nutritional shake dilution as a substitute for the milk one hence some of the white spot residue on old leaves ... but yes, this is why I want a comparison, is the freakishly shiny leaf normal and will grow up to be the dull looking leaves?

I don't want to become a nuisance in posting questions like this every time, either.

We have an Urban Garden Center that has a Rose Garden so I'll work on getting pics of those as well as mine on Help Me Find.

This post was edited by msdorkgirl on Sun, Dec 7, 14 at 1:03

msdorkgirl excellent subject! Foliage has become one of my recent obsessions as well. Not to mention growth habit.

I've begun to notice that many DAs have shiny foliage which I don't mind so much on a modern rose but I don't think it suits old fashioned style blossoms, or at least it makes the rose clash with its more refined neighbors. I planted Grace and Christoper Marlow together since they are supposed to have similar draping growth habits. Grace has delicate light green leaves, Christopher has small waxy dark green leaves. So Christoper had to move. Scarborough Fair & Skylark have very similar flowers and you'd think they'd harmonize, but the foliage is a terrible clash.

Being a geek, I have a database going and so I've added detailed foliage info. I have all winter long to obsess over this. I find that the searchable foliage attributes on HMF can be misleading. Good idea about posting foliage photos to HMF, though often my own photos don't quite capture what my eye sees. I don't think the photo of Grace accurately depicts the texture of the leaves. However I wasn't focused on that when I took the shot, I'm sure I can do better with practice. Also photo comments would be very helpful. e.g. new growth vs mature, age of the plant, soil qualities, etc

Christoper Marlow (L) & Grace (R)

A good rose book should give this information. The standard Swedish rose "bible" in three volumes says all about shape, color and surface of the rose leaves, about thorns and stems, growth habit, health and hardiness in our 8 climate zones, and the flower, of course, but it covers only 933 species and varieties. It would be good if HMF could include some of this valuable information, at least for newer roses.

I have fear of RRV in the back of my mind too.

This would be so helpful, the leaves, thorns, and shape of bush - so important.

Marianne the Swedish rose "bible" sounds wonderful.

A prime example of a rose that really needs its odd leaves covered as just what the plant does is Young Lycidas. It has odd leaves that look like the plant is either too dry or too wet, but that is just the growth habit. You can pick out the foliage in a bouquet because it stands out, but I bet about every person who just planted that rose spent some time wondering just what they are doing wrong.

One thing to remember, is that the growth can vary by location, so the more people documenting the better.

I started a survey turned spreadsheet on Google to track my roses too as well as tracking what I've done and how they're growing. Thanks for the pics ... I like the idea if combining the two in one photo too.

I bought the encyclopedia of roses but it does not have photos of the leaves.

We all take tons of pics so if we all just do our roses that would be quite a lot. Today is football Sunday so maybe after I'll start working on leaves photo shoot for some of the plants :)

I hope you use something to show scale. If you did not see the keys, how would you know just how big that trunk is

A ruler would be good, I want a pop up grid so I can isolate from the background

This post was edited by Kippy-the-Hippy on Sun, Dec 7, 14 at 11:32

Help Me Find CAN include any piece of information, and type of photograph of the plant, YOU are willing to provide. If you want to see more botanical detail type photos in the database, start taking more of those types of photos and get them up on the site. Once more people see you're doing it, they most likely will, too. Until more post those types, I doubt many others will even think of doing it. Kim

^ Good point, I'll plan to do that! ^

Kim and others - I didn't mean to disparage HMF and hope my comments were not taken that way. I am eternally grateful for the resource. I agree that the more we all contribute, the better the outcome. It's sometimes the case that foliage attributes are not reliably searchable, and I expect that this is because the user input is lacking. I personally need to commit more of my energy to give to the site, since I receive so much benefit and should not take it for granted.

Kippy, good point about scale but I just have to ask, did you lose your keys in the garden ;) ?

I don't think anyone mistook your comments for disparagement. I definitely didn't and am sorry if I sounded as if I did. This subject has come up a few times in the recent past and it's absolutely a great idea. We just need to remember to DO it. That's the hardest part. Remembering to take those kinds of shots and actually figuring out how to isolate each bush so it can be seen can be quite a job! Kim

msdorkgirl.....I don't have a data base like you are looking for but a number of years ago, the Texas Rose Rustlers had a form they used for people submitting info on a rose for ID'ing it. I saved a copy & attached it below (8 pages). Unfortunately I don't know of a data base to help use this form to ID a rose but it does give a number of things we should be looking at for ID'ing. Based on these forms I think it would be nice if people would consider adding pictures of hips, prickles (thorns), stipules, etc. on HMF.com.

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If you can get hold of a copy of Vintage Gardens' catalogue, there are wonderful drawings illustrating the growth habits of all the different classes of roses and the variations within those classes. Plus, Gregg's introduction to each class usually has some comments on the foliage and on many of the individual roses her describes the gloss of the leaves. The VG catalogue is one of the best guides to roses ever published, esp for beginners, and it is a shame it is no longer in print. Perhaps the new non-profit Friends of VG will re-issue it some day.

Thanks you all for the info and ideas ...

That keys/trunk picture -- was that a rose trunk? Whoa if it was.

I bought myself a yard stick to measure stuff but have been forgetting to use it. But I was thinking of pulling a stem off anyway and taking a pic of it separately --- and then maybe making a "background" using bamboo sticks and poster paper to make my plant pictures less busy.

I will use the Rose Rustler's thing on my survey, and when I'm done I'll see if I can post it, i have the survey emailed to myself so I can fill it out on my smartphone ... but it's the same format pretty much. Thank you for the attachments, that should enhance my data collection.

It isn't "pretty" but you can also use cardboard or poster board behind the branch or bush to help differentiate it from its neighbors. As long as it isn't wet or windy, the boards like that are light weight and easy to handle with one hand, if needed. Kim

I love that worksheet Wirosarian! That is just what I wanted to find.

Because I have a bunch of photo gear, using a light stand, reflector holder with a white pop up reflector and a grid drawn on it that I have yet to make is my plan Using a macro lens and a tripod should get some clear and easy to view photos, but before I get too deep in to doing that I want to make sure I know what I have....lol

Kippy-the-Hippy....have you ever seen rose photos by Saxon Holt? I scanned one in below from a book "100 Old Roses for the American Garden" by Clair Martin & photos by Saxon Holt. Love these photos because they give so many details about the rose that are helpful in ID'ing a cultivar. Thought maybe this would give you some ideas for your rose photography but since I'm not a photographer, I don't know how easy or difficult it is to replicate his style.

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This post was edited by wirosarian on Mon, Dec 8, 14 at 16:07

Wirosairan, that is the look and style I was planning on but also taking detail photos of the parts with some type of graph paper style scale behind it. I find that I can look at pictures and think wow I figured it out, just to find out that the bloom I am looking at is very different in size.

These photos were taken using a photo cube that I cut the bottom out of to take wildflower photos, they do have a backdrop that goes in the cube, but I think that would not work well in the garden. But it does work great for softening the quality of the light so you can see the details. I have a bunch of similar items, I just need the time to set them up and get in the zone mentally. I have some help for moms for a few months so I have to get as much done as possible, but after that I should have lots of time and a perfect space to work on this project.

I was hoping they would have a link to one page from this book, but the series is photographed the way you suggest. Philips and Rix put out a whole series of books which Random House published and all are botanically photographed so you can see the botanical details of all plants pictured. WELL worth buying the whole series. There were editions on roses, fungi, trees/shrubs, iris, perennials, etc. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: The Random House Guide to Roses

Here's a photo of my Night Owl climber's leaves and thorns, uploaded onto HMF today. When uploading, the site asks you to what part of the plant your photo depicts, i.e. bloom, foliage, whole bush, etc.

Those raindrops on the leaves felt like a miracle after this long drought we've had in So. Cal.

Here is a link that might be useful: Night Owl leaves and thorns on HMF

Kim, here's a link and a photo of inside The Random House Book of Roses.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:2121524}}

kippy do you have a name for that gorgeous rose?

:)

wirosarian .... those forms are really great ... wow...

That is David Austin Young Lycidas

But in the garden it stays a hot pink. Picked and brought in after a day or so it changed to that purple shade

wow ...thanks Kippy .... i really want that .... and DA is a bonus ... hopefully easy to find and will smell great. :)

thanks for the description too .... hot pink to cool purple ... wow. :)

All these ideas, thank you!

I am crossing my fingers that some English rose stems I have will take so I can pretend to take pretty pictures too.

And I'll be posting what I'll post on HMF on here too.

I've uploaded my first batch of photos taken for this project, but I do need to indicate size and scale as suggested in this discussion thread. I'll probably do a couple each time and tweak as I go along.

At the very least, this will help me establish my own database and keep my mind/time occupied for at least 6 months :)

Today, I'll be uploading information about:
1) About Face (Orange with Reverse)
2) Wild Blue Yonder (Fushia with yellow center)
3) Summer Love (Classic Yellow)

Here is a link that might be useful: About Face Pictures

This post was edited by msdorkgirl on Sat, Dec 13, 14 at 12:08

Perfect! Thank you! So often we forget the plant itself has to also be attractive. Though many flower over a very long period, there are times when they aren't "colorful". And, there are roses which are just as pleasing as green plants as they are scented, color. Thank you! Kim