Feedback / sanity check on Marvin & Kolbe quotes

10 years ago

So I got my rough quotes from a local Marvin Design Center and a Kolbe distributor. I'm wondering if you in-the-know folks have any feedback that can help me make the decision.

Key facts:

- SF bay area (pretty moderate weather)

- Humble house in desirable neighborhood. Zillow estimate for my neighborhood is about 2.3M$. My house is below that but not by all that much.

- House (1000sf) + Cottage (440sf). Replacing (new framing) total of 16 windows and 4 french doors. Mixture of double hung and casement.

- Style is bungalow/craftsman. Built after the war so not quite as nice as the stuff before, i.e., not a restoration candidate. My house is comfortable but still most of the value is in the value of the land.

- I don't plan on selling ... possibly ever. With two separate units, it's easy to rent out and make mortgage + taxes. The cottage has been rented to the same person for decades.

The quote from Kolbe is around 30K and from Marvin around 50K for all wood, primed (Kolbe)/unfinished(Marvin) exterior. The requirement for the quote was VGDF unfinished interior. No requirement for the species of the exterior.

The key issue seem to revolve around me wanting VGDF interior. The outside will be painted so I'm less concerned about that.

If I understand correctly, Marvin does their wood windows in all one species, so a lot more VGDF there. Kolbe does the visible interiors in the select species but the external pieces in pine (at least for this quote?)

The Marvin dealer gave me differences for a typical double hung: vgdf interior, clad exterior: 25% less than all vgdf; mix-grain df interior, clad exterior: 43% less than all vgdf.

I'm (pretty sure) mgdf is a non-starter. It's not the right look, isn't period, etc.

Is there anyway what I'd be getting from Marvin is worth 20K$?

VGDF is (I think?) a more durable wood, if I go with all wood windows, presumably external VGDF will wear better than pine. (I'm already (mostly?) committed to more maintenance than clad but pine's about as soft as you can get?)

Overall, I thought (perhaps naively) that the Marvin design touches were nicer/more consistent than Kolbe in this configuration. In particular, I understand that even with wood exteriors, the external SDL muntins are still aluminum with Kolbe. Also, the Marvin VGDF quote is for VGDF screens.

Any wisdom for me?

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Comments (5)

ef_houseman
10 years ago
Do yourself a favor and DO NOT get windows with pine exterior!! Even if they're pre-primed, they cannot be trusted. Also, I would be leery of Marvin's "mix grain" option, as Marvin has been known to use some pretty ugly pieces of wood on their non-VG windows.
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numbersjunkie
10 years ago
Is Loewen an option for you? They use VGDG as standard I think.
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millworkman
10 years ago
MGDF is Loewen's standard and their upcharge to VG is substantial as well
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friedajune
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
I can't get past the "humble house" of 1000 s.f. for $2MM+. I know. It's SF.

Anyway, the Loewen windows are really nice. But they do not have the dealer network that Marvin has. That means that if there is only 1 Loewen dealer in your area, and it goes away for whatever reason, you might be stuck if your windows have problems. A small probability I know, but the Marvin dealer network is everywhere.
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aptosca
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
Yeah, sorry about that. I know. :-p I added the "humble" part because I figured people would assume a pricey area meant a fancy house. In my case, it doesn't. My house is comfortable, not a shack, but it's not what others might think that price point implies. (And I bought it back when I could it. That wouldn't be now.) Most of the value is in the land (which is itself mostly a function of the schools.) Lots of people who would consider buying my house would scrape it and build something new. Happens all the time in my neighborhood. I wouldn't, even if I could afford it. I like my comfortable little home (as does the tenant in the cottage).

I looked and there is only one Loewen dealer for tens if not hundreds of miles. That said, that one is very close. I guess it can't hurt to talk to them. I was going mostly from GW recommendations for Marvin and Kolbe with Loewen mentioned as close but slightly behind.

ef_houseman's comments and other reading that I've done make me nervous about pine, though I'm not sure if I'm 20K$ nervous. Kolbe's strong reputation doesn't really fit with a problem-prone wood?

I'm still trying to judge how stupid I'm being avoiding clad. I'm not entirely sure I know how close in look I could get with clad. I can go back and research that. But I balk at not being able to choose my own colors: I'm a big fan of Schweitzer's Bungalow Colors book. I believe I can get custom colors for a setup charge though I'm not sure the charge. Plus if I ever have to get a replacement, I'm kind of screwed since a < 1K$ sash would still have the high setup charge. So I'm back to painting AL.

And I'm (foolishly?) a traditionalist: I like wood, particularly vgdf. All the doors, casings, and moldings will be vgdf (cabs will be cherry.) mgdf is a non-starter: I don't like flat-sawn fir; it looks too rustic for what I'm going for. To his credit, the Marvin dealer has a vgdf french door display that shows more color variation (presumably heartwood/sapwood) than a custom cab/furniture maker would accept. He tells the story that Marvin saw it and wanted to replace it and he said no. He shows it to anyone that's going to do a natural finish and points out that Marvin doesn't consider it a fault.
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