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Pond Dye Dumped Into My Pond and Stream... Water Rights Question

11 years ago

I never posted once in seven years, and now I post twice in two weeks!

Here goes. I live on several acres and there is a large pond that borders the back of my rear yard. Our property line actually bisects a portion of the pond, from one bank to the other bank. We share this pond with only one other property owner.

The pond is Spring fed with an inlet on his property and the outlet, which flows as a creek through our yard, on our property.

Yesterday, the other property owner dumped in what is called Pond Dye, and our beautiful, natural colored pond is now a tacky looking fake blue green! I was never asked my thoughts, nor asked for my permission.

I have two questions...

Wouldn't I have to agree to this as one of the property owners?

And, since the pond is not an enclosed body of water, do you think there would be regulations as to being able to use the dye? The creek eventually runs into a reservoir that supplies drinking water to the town. I know the stuff is not dangerous, so they say, but it seems wrong to be able to dump the dye into a pond that has an effect on many other property owners downstream.

Thanks in advance.

Comments (53)

  • 11 years ago

    Polluting you pond certainly can't be done without your permission, and given that it discharges into a flowing stream, it may well be illegal-- in the northeast it would almost certainly violate both local and state wetland regulations. These dyes are most commonly used to kill off the plant life in a pond, which in turn destroys the rest of the ecosystem. Perhaps these neighbors should invest in one of those "ceement ponds" if they want clear blue looking water.

  • 11 years ago

    Just an observation. Chicago dyes the Chicago River green every year- I assume the dye presents no environmental hazard. As terrible as the action of your neighbor may seem to you, there may be no actual environmental impact.

    Is your neighbor's name 'Oshea?" lol


  • 11 years ago

    Start this out as a neighbor problem and don't immediately escalate into a big report-to-authoritys problem. It might wind up there, but there's a chance than the neighbor didn't realize how you'd be affected.


  • 11 years ago

    Also -- there is a RED dye -- if you really want to be creepy - you could dye your portion RED and, if they report to you that don't like it, you perhaps can agree to not use dye again as you can't agree on the color :)


  • 11 years ago

    Logic says you'd need to mutually agree to do anything to the pond, whether it be spray algae or install a fountain or put out beaver traps or dye it any color.

    I'd start by knocking on your neighbor's door and saying (in a friendly, non-combative tone), "hey, what did you do to the pond?" You could always use a "my wife freaked out" line to soften your initial forays. And ask him if he had to get permission from the downstreamers or the reservoir owner (he may not have thought that far ahead about the consequences of his actions).

    Hopefully there will just be some apologies, or an "I didn't realize" and you'll emerge with an agreement that he won't do it again.


  • 11 years ago

    The dye has two effects... coloration, and to allow less light into the water to kill off weeds and algae. This pond does not have an algae problem nor weed problem. When I see him out again, I will approach him. In the meantime, I am researching my property rights.

    We have an otter that lives in the pond and is so fascinating to watch as he frolics and hunts for fish. The dye has the water so dark, that I doubt if he will be able to hunt.

    FWIW, this is not a pond in the middle of a suburban neighborhood. It is surrounded by thick woods and is very rustic.

  • 11 years ago

    Here are pics of the pond, the stream outlet and the creek. I realize some people may like the color, and that's fine. I hate it. But my real issue is that I believe my property rights were violated when he affected my real estate without my approval.

  • 11 years ago

    NC, as usual, I think you need to find out what your property rights really and truly are. Pretty sure, in my area, any substance put into a pond that was spring-fed and has a "down-stream" (which means, habitat, and not just a private man-made pond) would need some sort of approval. If your state has broad approval of the use of such substances, then, you have a neighbor issue. If your state requires approval, then they have a state regulatory issue.

  • 11 years ago

    Are you certain he did it? One bag of pond color goes a long way...and makes a good prank.

    (Now putting on my tin-foil hat), you also may have a down stream neighbor trying to test how much chemical run-off could be coming from the land that is draining into your pond. I worked at a camp with a man-made pond, and a downstream neighbor swore that the kids were responsible for the high e-coli counts in the stream going past his place. He snuck in at night, laid down dye just outside the pond outlet and tried to "prove" the contaminate came from the pond. The dunce didn't even think the woodland critters in the 1/4 mile to his place may be responsible! He just try to claim to the judge that it had to be the upper pond and poopey kids! Tried to have the pond drained or bypassed. Cost the camp a pretty sum to win the litigation.

  • 11 years ago

    Kirkhall, Yes, I have a call into my attorney so she can tell me what my property rights are. I am also trying to figure out who to call as far as the environmental side of things.

    I am certain it was the property owner who did it. He has been clearing brush and trees over the last couple weeks and I saw him walking around the pond shore about 6 hours before I noticed the coloration.

  • 11 years ago

    He may not even be allowed to cut down trees in an area like that. When my neighbor was clearing trees on her property in the forest behind our houses, the county fined her and made her replant. The pond looks awful with the fake color in it.

  • 11 years ago

    Holy cats! Yes, that's really green! I agree with you that it looks terrible.

  • 11 years ago

    Ugh, it looks radioactive!! I would be mad, too!

  • 11 years ago

    NC, please keep us posted if you don't mind. I understand why you are upset. I'd be furious too. Especially now that you've added the info about the location, and the wildlife possibly being impacted. This isn't some highly landscaped, man-made pool - this is a beautiful, natural pond. What the hell is wrong with people that they think this would be a good idea?! I'm so sorry and I like your calm, measured approach to it.


  • 11 years ago

    Ick! Hate the new color.


  • 11 years ago

    I never got an answer. Is your neighbor an Irishman celebrating St. Patrick's Day? (See calendar.)

    If so, put on your orange shirt and go see him.


  • 11 years ago

    Except that nc said that the neighbour dumped it on Saturday, so it's a little too late for St Patty's day.
    Unless the neighbour was so drunk for the whole week that it wasn't until he finally sobered up that he realized that he'd forgotten to pollute the pond in celebration! Better late than never!


  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Yeah, Greg, it was pretty stupid of me to suggest a St. Patrick's Day association with a holiday that has parades spread over two weeks and has evolved into a lot of stupid behavior - much associated with drunkenness. I mean, what are the odds that a pond is dyed green a few days after St Patrick's Day? I'm sure that the neighbors, the O'grady family, made no connection.

    Another possibility, the dye delivery from amazon.com for St. Patrick's day, was delayed three days by drone issues.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Ughhhh it looks just like those awful tailings ponds that you see out west left over from mining operations. In other words, a polluted and dead body of water. And, actually that's what you might end up with if it achieves what might have been his purpose, to kill off the algae. There are two types of algae, the single celled type that makes water look like pea soup and is usually indicative of stagnant noncirculating water, and the string algae which fastens onto rocks or floats or looks like moss on the bottom, The latter is good algae, a necessary part of a balanced ecosystem. (Come on over to Ponds and Aquatic Plants if you want (on the gardenweb side) - mostly we have built ponds but there are some with natural ones.)

    Hmmmmm.... why is it so murky& kinda milky looking? The dye should be transparent, no? I wonder what else he might have put in there....?

  • 11 years ago

    Does anyone else think the OP should walk over and ring the doorbell instead of posting n unanswerable question in an on-line forum? I'm sure the O'gradys will explain.


  • 11 years ago

    I do think using the St. Patrick's day connection would be a great topic opener. As in "Is the pond thing a way of observing St. Pat's Day? " Well, maybe.


  • 11 years ago

    saltidawg, I'm sure he will do that when his thoughts are in order. Sometimes it helps to get some other takes on a problem, different points of view.

    I really don't know what the legalities are, not here or in his state. I do know I don't like the appearance of the dye, it makes the pond look like something manmade installed around a built-to-look-rustic resort for tourists or something ;) I wouldn't be happy if that was a pond I was sharing.

    I hope it doesn't decrease the otters hunting opportunities, it would be a shame to alter the wildlife balance for no reason we've been told.

  • 11 years ago

    Believe me, the neighbor will be approached. But I am one to research my options and rights before I do. It doesn't make sense to speak with him until I know my property rights and before I know if there were any regulations were violated.

  • 11 years ago

    saltidawg, I meant my response to your suggestion to be humorous. I wasn't trying to say that your thought was stupid.
    And I guess St Patty's day is a much bigger deal where you are than where I am. Here, there aren't any parades and people might go out and drink some green beer on that day, but it's pretty restricted to the actual day.


  • 11 years ago

    Well, whether a joke or not - if it does harm it's a problem. Kids putting TP around the yard does no lasting harm, but this stuff might. If you look it up its sold to color the water AND to cut down light entering the pond which in turn kills algae..


  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    You could talk to the town officials since the blue water will make it's way to the town's drinking water supply. It will probably be diluted by then, but it might cause them to talk to the owner. On a side note hydrogen peroxide removes the dye, but even if you wanted to invest in buying large amounts of hydrogen peroxide, there may be subtle effects to the pond critters. I think your neighbor is an idiot by the way.

  • 11 years ago

    So what has happened in the two weeks since the dye caper?


  • 11 years ago

    I've been wondering too. And wondering if the color has dissipated at all....

  • 11 years ago

    I wonder if the person who put the dye in the pond read the North Carolina extension guide to pond management and took this advice without talking to you or determining if a problem really existed?

    "Pond Dyes. Adding a non-toxic pond dye to your pond is another way to help
    prevent weed problems. Pond dyes turn the water a bluish-green color and help
    control weeds by shading the bottom so plants can’t get established. They should
    not be used in ponds that are fertilized, because they will interfere with plankton
    bloom development."



  • 11 years ago

    My attorney and I both have been on vacation for about two weeks. I will update when I know something from her.

  • 11 years ago

    dyh - one person's "weeds" may be another person's balanced ecosystem. It's unlikely that a pond with inflowing/outflowing water has true "weeds," although there's these certain neatfreak types who consider any algae or underwater plant to be an icky "weed" deserving to be annihilated. One such person housesitting for me took it upon herself to remove every last bit of algae out of my fishpond - I was so annoyed! With a fishpond, you need a certain amount of algae/aquatic plants to use the nitrate created by fish poop - without those, the water chemistry goes out of whack and fish could die.

  • 11 years ago

    Below is what my attorney's research shows:

    In North Carolina, the law regarding water ownership/usage, etc. is largely borrowed from the common law. The codification of laws relating to water rights are largely limited to coastal and government usage, and don’t touch very much on private landowner’s usage of water on their own property. And the issues I discuss below assume that this is a naturally occurring pond, and not a man-made one, in which case there are other issues at play.

    1. The common law with respect to the rights of your water is grounded in the concept that landowners can use any water that touches their land, so long as that use is “reasonable”. Also, you can’t cross someone else’s land to utilize their water without their permission. The necessity that the use be “reasonable” only discusses the water itself, not the property value of the land adjacent to the water. So, your contention would be that the dying of the water is unreasonable, as it naturally then affected YOUR water.
    2. You may also have an argument for trespass, since the affected water changed the color of the water running on and through your property as well.
    3. Finally, a property owner who causes contamination of groundwater will be liable to affected neighbors in the same manner that one who pollutes surface water is liable to other water owners who are affected by that pollution/contamination. You could have a claim of damage to your property by virtue of the fact that the water was polluted at a higher level from your property, which, when flowing down to and through your property, polluted your water and property.
  • 11 years ago

    So when are you going to talk to your neighbour?
    I think we're all "dyeing" to know how that turns out. Pun intended. Sorry. :)

  • 11 years ago

    kashka - I'm not an advocate! I just posted what I found in the NC agricultural extension guide. I'd be pretty upset with a green water view, too!

  • 11 years ago

    I agree with greg_2015. It would seem a reasonable conversation with the perp would be to dye for!

  • 11 years ago

    ???????

  • 11 years ago

    I approached my neighbor and asked why he added dye to the pond w/o consulting me first. He seemed surprised that I was asking. He said he is just trying to get the beavers to leave the pond, by getting rid of the vegetation. (There is no vegetation that I see anywhere on or in the pond, except the trees and shrubs around the banks) I explained to him that I expected to be contacted the next time he is planning on affecting the pond and he agreed. I explained to him that I am tired of the beavers too, and that I would trap them in order to get rid of them.

    I did not tell him that I just ordered some pond dye that is black. I will add it in to at least get the water back to a more natural color.

  • 11 years ago

    The Beaver Family thinks you're both crazy. Please don't re-dye the water. Also, I'll bet the original Beavers were there before either of you.

  • 11 years ago

    Good luck with the black dye and getting your water back to a natural color -- I have no experience with that. I do have some experience with beavers. Yes, they are part of nature, but gosh they ring every tree, big and small, within a hundred feet of their dam! The small trees fall over, leaving sharpened trunks about 6" off the ground. The big trees die and fall over much later. A few years ago, my neighbor persuaded our beaver to move on. I didn't inquire how. We simply didn't have enough acreage to support beavers long term, so they weren't going to stay much longer regardless.

  • 11 years ago

    Kate, What's your point? If you have never had a beaver problem before then you do not know how destructive they can be to property. These beavers have gotten to a point that they are taking down every tree and shrub around the pond.

    I have already trapped two of them earlier this Spring, because they were just doing too much damage. Don't worry about the beavers... when that trap comes down upon their neck, they don't feel a thing.

  • 11 years ago

    After getting irritated that your neighbor did not tell you about the dye before hand, you boast that you did not tell him about dye you ordered?


    Wouldn't want to be the neighbor of either of you! You may want to ask your lawyer how your planned action differs from your neighbor's.

  • 11 years ago

    A dye for a dye and pretty soon the whole pond's dead.

  • 11 years ago

    A dye for a dye !!!! HaHaHa ... Brilliant


  • 11 years ago

    I believe beavers here in Michigan are protected. Check you local laws.

  • 11 years ago

    Beavers are not protected in NC, but there are a number of rules regarding trapping/killing them.

  • 11 years ago

    Any landowner whose property is sustaining damage due to beavers, can legally trap them w/o a permit from the Wildlife Resources Commission. This is Statewide.

  • 11 years ago

    Glad to hear the good news.


  • 11 years ago

    That's great news!

  • 11 years ago

    Yes it is. Thanks.