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malcolm_manners

Rose needing Identification

10 years ago

Hey northern friends -- Here's a rose I saw June 20 in Bozeman Montana (zone 3/4). Believed to be older than 1910. They were told it was R. rugosa, which it obviously is not. I'm thinking perhaps a R. spinosissima hybrid? Your thoughts will be appreciated.
Link to the Flickr album
Malcolm

Comments (8)

  • 10 years ago

    Altaica


  • 10 years ago

    There don't appear to be bristles amongst the thorns - so, possibly the 'Grandiflora' cultivar??

    Loving those red canes...

    :¬)

  • 10 years ago

    Altaica 'Grandiflora' certainly seems to be on the right track. Should I be concerned that HMF says 7-9 leaflets, and this has many that are 11?


  • 10 years ago

    Dr. Manners, I moved South from my Altaica so I can't count the leaflets and I'm not sure.


  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I'm sorry, I can't help either with that.

    Just in case you're not familiar with them - or for anyone else who's interested - there are some excellent articles by Peter D A Boyd available on the web on Scots/Scotch Roses and Spinosissima/Pimpinellifoliae in general, and their hybrids, including one (article) called (I think) 'Romantic Survivors: R Spinosissima and the North American connection'. However, looking rather quickly through a couple of those articles again, I didn't spot anything specifically about the no. of leaflets.

    From what I can remember from Boyd's articles, the Grandifloras, which were the ones that went into the breeding of the Kordes Fruhlings- series, are taller somewhat more arching, less bristly plants with larger flowers (duh!), which may have originated from more inland areas of mainland Europe and Asia, rather than the coastal sands (inc. those of England and Scotland) where the Scots types flourished.

    As well as the obvious Scottish connection, it seems both kinds and their hybrids were particularly popular in Scandinavia, especially Sweden and Finland, and it was quite common for treasured plants and cuttings to be taken with them to Canada and the (northern?) USA when they emigrated in/around the 19th century. It might be interesting to know whether there were Scandinavian or Scottish connections in the area your rose was found.

    In Canada in the 20th century, Frank Skinner, Percy Wright and others raised attractive, hardy R Spinosissima hybrids, some of which may now be lost to cultivation. Apparently around 2007-8 when the above article was written, the Saskatchewan Rose Society was trying to rediscover and reintroduce these 'lost' Canadian hardy roses.

    Comtesse :¬)

  • 10 years ago

    Is it a once bloomer? Are the hips large, dark and pear shaped? If so I may have that rose. it was a rescue rose for me from an abandoned site. I will try to find a photo.


    Valerie

  • 10 years ago

    I have two Altaicas from the same source. One, the smaller one, doesn't seem to have any leaves with more than 9 leaflets. However, the larger one has a fair number with 11.

    However, the foliage and canes in the photographs look to me a lot more like the foliage and canes of the Mary, Queen of Scots growing next to the larger Altaica than they do the Altaica. The leaflets on R. spinossisima do seem to be smaller, though. So it doesn't look like that.

    Anyone who thinks gallica IDs are difficult hasn't spent enough time with spinossisimas. If somebody wants to call it Altaica, why not. Enough of them seem to predate the idea of cloning cultivars that if the flowers look the same, that's what it is.


    Altaica and R. hugonis blooming together this spring.

    If anyone wants photographs of hips, I can take some. They do tend to disappear quickly once they start to ripen. They seem to be a squirrel favorite, and the animals very systematically strip the bushes. Hips are round, and almost black when ripe, or so I have heard. Here, they rarely get past dark red.


  • 10 years ago

    Here is a new hip forming. Last year's were not much bigger, same shape, reddish to nearly black.


    And a bud


    Thanks MadGallica -- there is surely a strong resemblance there.

    Malcolm