Thanks chartist. I like the real talk all of you have given me. Really really appreciate it

Absolutely incredible!

Best of luck to you.

Let me tell you a little story. We bought our house 8 years ago for 765K...overpaid for sure, but heck we loved the house and were moving from a high cost of living area so it did not seem so outrageous. Then, the market tanked and recovery has been slow. There are lots of new homes in our area. We put in a pool and landscaping to the tune of 150K, knowing it was mostly for our own enjoyment and that we would probably not recover those costs. Expected to stay in the home longer, but things change and we decided to put it on the market last Nov. Had it appraised and listed it at the appraised value of 790K...nothing doing. Thought it would sell fast for what we paid for it with all the upgrades (some in addition to the pool). Um, no, we finally sold it for 705K. It was listed at 735K and the offer was 675K. We countered with an amount that met them in the middle and we have our deal. Could we have come down less and gotten a few thousand more? Maybe, but life is short. In the grand scheme it was more important for us to move on. I posted here and got some feedback, but mostly it was price that got the deal done. Two other similar homes in my market have sold for much higher (one 100K higher!). I don't know why, but this is what the market tells me my house is worth at this time. Real estate is funny like that. Your house is worth what someone is willing to pay you for it and if you don't like that you can continue to live there until the market improves.

Great post!

Great post jmck_nc.

Similarly, we bought our first home back in 1987 and paid $176,000 for the house. We put in about $25,000, (plantings, a new kitchen including all new appliances, painting, refinishing the wood floors, etc). In 1993 the housing market was not doing well. We wound up putting our now too small home (two kids in a 2 bedroom home) on the market for $179,000.

We realized we were not going to see the profit from our new kitchen. Our buyers offered $165,000 and settled on a price of $169,000, less than what we had paid for the house 6 years earlier! It happens. 8 years later the house sold again for $220,000. Should I have not sold it in 1993 for $169,000 because 8 years later it was going to be worth more? Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense.

Your house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it NOW; not what it might be worth a year or five years from now.

You mentioned over 2000 views with no showings. Lack of traffic is another way buyers vote with their feet. They are telling you the house is not the among the most interesting homes in that price range or doesn't meet their needs-- for whatever reason. You won't know, but if you are getting that many views and not more showings, you have a problem.

The list price of $325K might be a good price, but that doesn't mean you will get $325K for it. In fact, it rarely does unless the listing price is below market and/or there is a very competitive market. Rather, it means that if you have priced the home correctly, you can expect to get 95-99% of that price. Why do you think buyers should negotiate but you don't need to? You think they aren't serious about buying and they think you aren't serious about selling. The direction of their feet tells you how they feel about that.

Add to that the fact that at least three buying agents have now shown the house and know you have countered at $324K. I'm willing to bet it has been talked about among the offices and you now have a reputation as an unreasonable seller who is only looking for a full price offer and won't negotiate. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets harder and harder to get showings or offers.

If you are lucky enough to get another $315K offer, I would take it or counter at least half way and do what it takes to close the deal. If you can't do that, it would be time to admit that you are not serious about selling your home and take it off the market. You can't sell it today based on what you want to get for it now, much less what you think the market will be in future years.

We sold a rural home outside Madison, WI a year and change ago. It took six months to get an offer at our bottom dollar. Rural homes have another market, and some of them want a bargain....some of them want the privacy and solitude. What you have going for you is acreage!

Your sale price seems high for what I have seen in TX, and there is only a two car garage. Garages are pretty important here in WI. I don't know your area, so maybe it is different there, but if you aren't getting showings, something in the offering isn't clicking with buyers. It may be price, location, pictures or amenities offered.

Sometimes we get personally involved during the selling process of a home and cannot see beyond the facts.

A house value is based on similar comps in your area. It does not matter what you add to a house. Some remodeling may add an increased value but it is usually a small percent of the total remodeling costs. (unless you are adding square footage).

Unless you are located in an area where everybody is wanting solar, I do not believe it is a selling feature. Some people do want solar but not as many as you think.

Your house looks nice and your rebuild might have brought the amenities to the same level as similar homes in your area.

As an example, many of the homes in my area have carpet, some tile and laminate countertops in the kitchen. We remodeled and installed hardwood floors, stainless appliances and quartz countertops. The bathroom was redone a few years ago due to problems with the tub. There is no way we will get the money back we spent on the remodel but may recoup a small percentage. However, since it is updated our house might sell quicker than others.

As others have stated, there are challenges when you sell a home in a rural area unless everyone is moving there. Drop the pre-qualification. If you can look at the situation objectively you might want to reduce the price of the home.

Good luck to you!

Gray post Jmck and Lasccatx and others. You are right. I've been regurgitating this to my hub. I hope we get something accomplished!

Our first home we bought for 116k, and sold it for $113k. we tried listing it to break even, but had to drop from what we originally listed it at $124k. Glad we are done with it, but maybe that's why I am taking this personally. You all are right though, we may not be tht serious about moving if we aren't willing budge. Maybe next time I will FSBO so I can drop the price more...

Morgan,

Unfortunately it is the market today. After the recession hit most people will never get the money back they paid for their house. Even in our area, home values are creeping up but at a slow pace.

We bought some land last year for 20,000 less than the person paid for it 20 years ago. Originally, they priced the land for twice the amount they paid for it and it was on the market for over 2 years. On Zillow, we saw the selling price drop from 200,000 down to 89,000. Before the recession, the property would have sold for 200,000.

"After the recession hit most people will never get the money back they paid for their house."

If they bought the property in 2006 they might not get their money back if they sold now. If they bought 15 years ago they likely will get their money back now and then some.

I bought my current home 26 years ago... it has never been worth less than I paid for it and it is currently worth over 2.75 times what I paid for it.

In the long haul buying a home has not been a bad investment since the end of WW-II. Short term aberrations, yes. Always have recovered and then some.

we bought our condo in 2010. We will do very well with it when it sells

SaltiDawg

I think it depends on where you live.

We bought our house 16 years ago and the houses in our area are selling very close to the price we paid for our house. We might luck out and get an additional 8,000 - 10,000 when we sell in 2 years but once we pay realtor fees......

I am not complaining mine is no longer underwater. lol

cricket5050 -- I feel like we're probably in the same boat as you. Bought in 2001, have put a LOT of dollars over the years (into new dual-paned windows, amazing kitchen remodel, new master and main bathrooms, plus less exciting maintenance issues like dry rot, gutters, landscape, fence...possibly looking at new roof and new HVAC in a couple years too, not to mention we need to replace the carpet). Right now prices are a bit up from what we paid for the house, which means taking a loss on all the "improvements". Basically the work had to be done, so we thought "why not make it more functional/livable as well". It was mainly to improve our quality of life while we're here, not a savvy financial choice. :-/

Cricket5050 said, "I think it depends on where you live." and yet you originally said, " most people"after the recession will never get the money back they paid for their house. (Emphasis added.)

The "recession" is a blip to those that have been in their homes for a long period of time, just like the times when homes were appreciating in the double digits was a blip.

I put a thousand down on my first home in 1969. That equity has risen over the years to about $1 million. My mortgage has been paid off for many years and I am putting an amount equal to a mortgage payment away every month.

I have never taken one single dime out of my various homes' equity. Just left the money increasing as the home value increased over the years, with the occasional down blip.

If you put 10% down and the house increases in value 5%, that's an equivalent return of 50% on your down payment. Leverage can be a great thing....

Morgan, you have a very nice home! I agree that painting the rain barrels, removing the stencils, adding shade on the patio, etc will help, but you may need to get it off the market. When you've missed that number of opportunities, backing off and restarting with a fresh perspective may be the right thing to do. Being a home stager, I can tell you're keeping it spotless, but it looks too sterile - almost empty! Empty homes are much harder to sell. Staging a home to sell takes just the right amount of "pre-packing and décor/color placement" happy-balance. You have "personalized" the outside of the house with rain barrels (LOVE- I have 3 of my own!) and solar panels; that's not something you can take down and put away like a photo..... When I look at your photos, all I see are the blue rain barrels (go to my website and look at Curb Appeal photos to give you some ideas to change the look. It will definitely take a specific buyer due to some of the above and lack of mature shade trees. Hope I haven't offended you in any way; I know it's frustrating! Staging Your World

Thanks lascatx! I usually never post stuff on websites that have to do with anything personal, especially financial, but I am ready for some answers from outsiders. I def prepared

Myself for the good, bad, and ugly Bc the Internet is the internet, and everyone has an opinion and feels it's the best for them..and sometime everyone else lol. But I really do appreciate the candid "real talk". My hub is a retired Army Infantryman, so as a Grunt's wife I try to have a "no BS, cut through the crap" attitude.

The plan is to take our profits and buy land cash and finish converting our skoolie to an RV to travel with our kids and eventually build a house ourselves on our cash property with cash we save.. So we had a number in mind we needed to reach since this is def our best investment (and it is, the house fire was bitter sweet for that reason) right now. The goal is to be debt free before we are too old to enjoy it lol.

So I guess I'm on the fence, and trying to leave it to positive energy and a dream right now. :) thanks all for the sound advice. I will post what happens for sure!

Thanks BradnJonie. I feel it's empty too! I hate that I packed and sold everything..10 months in a "staged" home is too long. Lol. We had more furniture but we slowly sold it off to help lessen the clutter and just to get rid of crap we didn't use. The couches downstairs were upstairs, but never even used them :) first world problems. I always wanted a pergola or something to offer shade on the deck, considering it's the only property with any trees I feel like we are still one up in that game. I will def think about the rain barrels too. My hub had mentioned that a few months ago..I guess I should've listened..darn it! :)

It looks so bare. When you built it, weren't any trees planted? Being from the Northeast, I am not used to a bare landscape.

Yes, the rain barrels kind of leapt out at me from the photo and I wondered what they were. I think they should be neutral.

This has been an interesting read and lascatx is right - you have taken things well and kept your hair on.

I am surprised to read that not many prospective USA buyers want solar.

If you are getting a lot of on-line views but not visits, then maybe it is in part due to the photos. Many of your 31 photos could vanish, as far as I am concerned. You start with 4 photos of the front of the house, and the blue barrels are too visible. Then photo number 5 is of two doors. Then you continue on to a photo of a window blind and a light switch. There are many more photos like that in your group. But the biggest problem with the photos is how the kitchen cabinets look in the photos. I would take one look at them and realize I don't want those cabinets. And that would be the end to my interest in your house.

No trees. We planted over 26 though but Bc they are only a few years old, are still small. We are in the middle of agriculture, literally a corn field across the street and houses only on one side of the road Bc of the fields on the other side. Maybe Bc the lot is so big it looks really bare? Idk. But I can't really Change that right now.

I agree on photos, on a few different sites I noticed there were like double photos, unorganized, some were mixed with old pics...will have to bring this up with the agent. And yes the cabinets are much darker than the photos. I don't like the way they turned out at all..Bc they look very "oak like" instead of the rich wood they are. And the backsplash really makes the wood pop in person. I just need people in the door right now. Lots of online traffic should equal showings right? We had like 200 views a week or something, but once we got the new pics it jumped to 2000..we were told that we got a lot of calls on it via our agent..not sure why they aren't converting to offers though..must be price as others have suggested..

I do know that living in a rural area makes it harder to sell, then the price...so my market is pretty small..but I guess I need to learn to work with what I get huh?:) thanks all!

A few thousand dollars one way or another is something you can easily make up down the road. A little difference in an investment, negotiating your property purchase a little better, the details on that RV, traveling a little shorter time or staying with friends or family here and there, not to mention pinching pennies or finding ways to earn a little extra cash -- some or a little of each and you can pull together $5-10K. It should not get in the way of selling your house and putting your plans into motion.

I wouldn't want solar panels in an area that gets hail. Too hard to do roof repairs, repair them if damaged.

Lots of online views, and offers of 315 tell you that you are overpriced for the area. Get rid f the stencils, put larger lamps in mstr bdm, change comforters to a neutral color. Get rid of elec appliance in bathroom on counter. They won't get you the 325, but may get you another offer.

The prequel letter should only be required with offers. I hope you aren't requiring it to even have an agent show it.

FWIW, countering with a 1000. price drop pretty much is a polite way of telling the buyer to Eff Off, and that you don't like their offer. It does NOT imply you are willing to negotiate. Most homes in that price range have about 10k of negotiating room, so a 315k offer is a pretty good first offer. You probably could have closed the deal around 318/319, but probably pissed off the buyer with the 1k counter. In a remote area like that, you probably should have taken the offer.

The solar panels are covered for 25 yrs by texas solar power, so any damage or if they run less than 90%, they are replaced free. I agree I don't like the cabinet pics. They are actually much darker than what the pics show. And yes, we are requiring the prequal letter for showings only Bc the first month we had a ton of showings but one offer. After further research we found out that almost all of the people who came couldn't even afford it. Pretty much just wasted my time..and this is a big house to clean and polish for someone who can't even offer 300k. Again, I don't have I move. We knew it would take a while considering the market and all of the different features that not everyone would like. A lot of the older peopel (50+)that looked at the house were turned off by the techie stuff. Everyone has liked the panels (they have all said that is the reason they came to the house Bc it is not common. I'm not really worried about people who don't like the panels.) and surround sound stuff, but the remote fireplace, remote sub shades, intercoms, On Q system, and others were too intimidating for them. I get that. People that have looked at it that were 30-45 loved all of the techie upgrades Bc they get a modern house in the country. And it's the nicest house on the road. I'm not being cocky, it's just the truth.

I figured out from the comments that even tho I may think it's the best house (in biased) doesn't mean it's worth what. I want it to be or what the square footage numbers calculate (334k). We dropped the price 9k, and reminded the folks who put the recent offer in just that when we countered verbally with 324k. We told them we had came down a total of 10k from what it is "worth" market wise. The bank appraised at 322k. We asked them to put in a different offer when they were ready. I just didnt get why the negotiations aren't there. I do now. We have come up with a few plans over the last couple of days, so I am hopin gone of them will get me the $$ i need. It will include a price drop tho I believe ..less realtor fees will easily give me what I need at 315k.

The bank appraised at less than you are asking and you are saying that you came down 10K from what it is worth market wise. Market wise then the appraisal value is 322K so you didn't come down from the market worth. You are still pricing it above the market worth. I can see why they didn't want to continue to negotiate as you sounded like you weren't willing at all with that statement. I would be moving on to my 2nd choice.

The prequal letter just to view the house would run me off, as well as my buyers. Most agents do a prequal verbally, (ie, asking what their credit score is, income/debts, calculate pmts, finding out if they have talked to a mortgage company, before showing homes. ). But we don't get the prequal letter until we know which home we want to make an offer on. The letter is included with the offer. You are reducing the pool of people that will make offers by requiring it. There are enough other homes for sale that don't leave the prospective buyer feeling that they have to jump through hoops, that you are running off prospects by requiring a prequal letter. Part of selling a house is realizing that not everyone that looks at it will like it, or that a couple of the people that look, may be looking outside of their price range. And some of those are probably saying "It's too much money/more than the buyer can afford" because they are just trying to be nice, and not say "It's overpriced". Open houses are a different story, and you will get nosy neighbors, looky loos. But they can be valuable, because everyone likes to feel like they can offer advice (why forums are popular, LOL), so if they run across someone looking for a home, they may tell them about the nice house they just saw.

You don't sound like a motivated seller, and those are not usually very easy to deal with, because of the sentimental attachment they have to the home. My suggestion is to take it off the market and list it on the 'Make me move" website. People looking there only try to buy if they absolutely LOVE a home, and have to have it, and know they may pay more than market value.

Make me move..got it. Never heard of it so I appreciate the advice! So far a few other brokers I spoke to today have said 325k is a good price for the house..a few saying w expulsion get that or 320k..so my hopes are still up. I don't think i am in denial as I know I could drop the price and sell it super fast. Obviously, Bc I've gotten all offers at 315k. But as a buyer, wouldn't you want to get a deal? Asking for a low ball offer first then working up to it? I know when I buy land I will ask for less than its worth. But I would also be negotiating as well. I knew this would not be an easy sell, I have a lot of factors working against me..but I have an awesome house too that I know is worth what I'm asking.

Thanks for the info Linda. If I did a FSBO 315k would be perfect Bc I would not have $13k in realtor fees...giving me the number I want:) thinking..

You're currently listed at $325. Back out $13K in Realtor fees. Listing at $312 would be the same net to you, no?

Buyers can do arithmetic too.

I don't see why you said you got a low ball offer at 315k it is roughly 3% less than your 325K list price and even less than 3% if you use the appraisal value. I wouldn't consider that even near a low ball offer. It is within negotiating range and a good starting number for a buyer. You pretty much said you didn't want to negotiate though to the buyers with those offers saying you'd already came down 10K from market value which you didn't since you already got an appraisal which is as close as you'll get to market value and you are not close to that. The buyers were likely thinking why bother. You are not budging and they don't want to overpay.

I understand you don't have to sell and if you don't then just take it off the market and hope the market improves or you save up an extra 10K in the mean time.

Morgan, I thought you were getting it, but I guess I was wrong. You have to negotiate if you want to sell the house -- at least 99% of the time anyway. Negotiating means working with the other party to a middle ground, not just rehashing your numbers to try to find other ways to get to what you want. Your math just doesn't add up and you are stuck on numbers that are merely estimates and approximations. You treat them like they are an entitlement. Sorry -- doesn't work that way.

Trust me, after rejecting multiple viable offers and becoming known as a difficult seller, neither trying to get realtors to reduce their fees to get to your number nor taking the house FSBO have a probability of working well for you. Realtors aren't going to show it and will likely tell their buyers not to waste their time. You are going to need a buyer working only on their own in a rural market who happens upon the home and then loves it so much that they overcome the bargain hunter mentality of most unrepresented buyers pso mucch that they will pay very top dollar and then, on top of that, have a sucessful, smooth closing with no agents to guide the process. No offense, but even if you find that buyer, I don't get the impression that you are seasoned enough to make that likely.

You have the information and tools to sell your home and reach your goal. If it were me, the house would already be sold within $2K of $320K and I would have found alternative ways to adjust the remainder of my plan $5-10K worth and would be packing and planning. Whether you do it is up to you.

You will eventually sell it for $325k, just keep waiting. You should keep countering offers for 97% of full price with 99.7% of full price. Don't worry about the fact that climbing interest rates will completely demolish the $5,000 you saved with additional interest charges on your next home, and forget all the effort it takes to keep a house show ready for years instead of months, and whatever you do, don't think about all the worrying and indecision over $5,000.

P.S. On a more serious note you need to fire your listing agent for one of two reasons, (1) he let you make a $324k counter offer without a giant fight, or (2) because he fought you tooth and nail on it, and you ignored him, and now he is not going to waste anymore time on you.

Again (and again and again) it's NOT about the number you want. It's about what a buyer is willing to pay for the house. I strongly encourage you to re-think the FSBO idea. Your mindset on this is why most FSBO sellers FAIL. It's not that people cannot sell a home on their own, but you are too emotionally invested in this house, and you also don't seem to understand that buyer's dictate what a house is worth.

Hijack ahead:

Occasionally I see threads here where the seller "brags" about holding out, turning down less-than-full-price offers, and eventually selling for more than the asking price.

What I'm wondering is how do these sellers know their property is worth that, and therefor hold out?

OP, one thing I've read is that of a person owns the nicest, most expensive home in an area, they won't necessarily get top dollar for it when they sell. Rather, the other homes around serve to set the general price range. The better investment, for recouping dollars, is one of the cheaper homes in a desirable neighborhood.

I appreciate all the candid feedback, I appreciate all of the time people are using to post on here to offer their insight. Everyone is so passionate!! It's awesome.

I think if it were totally up to me at this point I would counter 320k next time I get a 315k offer. And if nothing comes along, I'll try again in 3 yrs. I am finding out now after calling a few agents who have shown the home in the past that the people that saw it loved it, they just only had 315k or not even close to that and wanted a bargain. I only called 5 out of 8 that made offers..I akswd their advice as well and they all say that 325k is a good number, but that negotiating a couple thousand more will show more negotiation leniancy. Sounds like some of you were right on with the advice I am getting for the people in my market and who have been here. Ill def make more than my number I want to get out of it doing FSBO, but I planned on using most of the extra as a incentive for a buyers agent to show, MLS fees (maybe), a lawyer to review the docs. I figured 315k is good Bc that's all the offers I get. Like I said earlier, appraisal came back at 322k..so I don't see a problem with that solution...thoughts on that?

I don't think appraisals have much to do with sale prices. There have been threads on here about appraisals. Why did you have your house appraised? An appraisal is usually required by a lender, but since you have had no sales contracts, it's odd that you would have an appraisal done ahead of time. Appraisals are pretty much based on sq. footage, comps, and condition. They don't take into account upgrades. They don't look at brand names. If you ever go under contract, there will have to be a new appraisal, and it might be less.

Also, owner ordered appraisals usually come in higher because there is no underwriting review to justify comps/appraisal value. The appraiser doesn't have to answer to anyone about how they got their figures. I've sold several homes that the owners had an appraisal done for them, but when the bank ordered one, it was quite a bit lower.

Linda, you are a realtor and you confirmed my suspicion. I did suspect that lender ordered appraisals would come in lower. It's serious business with them. They don't want to lend on an inflated price that may come back to bite them in time.

You've had 8 offers and haven't sold the house????? Unbelievable.

And once more --

appraisal

noun

1.

the act of estimating or judging the nature or value of something orsomeone.

2.

an estimate of value, as for sale, assessment, or taxation; valuation.

Emphasis on "estimate"

The other thing I didn't mention about why owner ordered appraisals are higher, is that the appraiser is being hired by the seller to give a value. They know the seller wants the highest value possible. They also want referrals from that person in order to get future business. If they piss off the seller by appraising it for the "real" value, which is less than seller will like, then they get badmouthed to everyone. So they try to bump the figure as much as possible, even knowing that if it were going to be reviewed by underwriting, they may not accept the comps used.

I can't find anything abiut an owner ordered appraisal. The OP said - Bank appraisal was around 322k

I also think that owner ordered are closer to the bank than they used to be. The pressure on appraisals to be impartial is pretty immense today. I mean now a few bad appraisals can be the death knell for an appraiser.

The bank appraised the home though no offer had been made and accepted?

Or did a deal fall through?

I'm confused.

We ordered our own appraisal and it came in at $330k last year when we originally listed the house. On an older offer (first few months of it on the market) of 315k we accepted with the option of terminating if it came in higher. It did. So we offered $322k (what bank appraisal was at) they couldn't afford it, it fell through, not to mention they wanted us to also pay $8000 in closing costs for them, on top of 13k of our own, and have me leave the washer and dryer. We said we won't pay all closing but if they came up to 322k we could pay $2k of theirs. I don't mind negotiating but I can't also be out 8k plus 3k for my much needed washer and dryer. As any owner would want what the home is worth, we dropped listing from 330k to the 325k listing. Still negotiating with new prospects now.

I am first reading the thread, and want to commend you for being so gracious on the receiving end of the comments. From what I am understanding, you are not desperate to sell, so you have less reason to accept an offer. The thing is (as referred to in post by bryn), the waiting or holding out does cost you money and although I sold my house 25 years ago I do remember that it wasn't delightful to have everything pristine every time I left the house in case a realtor showed the house- it was stressful.

You do have a beautiful home that is very tastefully decorated and totally updated so I can understand why you feel it's worth what you feel it's worth.... but it is your call.

When late Hubs and I decided to move, we called a realtor to look at the home and give us his ballpark number for a sales price. He said "$X." Poor Hubs was stunned. "What about [this feature], [that], or [the other]? "

Realtor said, "I'm in the business of selling houses, not putting up signs." We ended up not going with that realtor, but in fact the house sold with a couple thousand dollars of the price he named.