0
Your shopping cart is empty.

Wolf Lawsuit filed July 9, 2015 regarding Blue Porcelain Chipping

permag
July 21, 2015

Let me start by saying, I like Wolf products a lot. We recently sold a home with a 60" DF Wolf range, and we miss it. We'd like to purchase a 48" Wolf DF for our new home, but have reservations due to this issue of cracking and chipping porcelain interiors. If it were just a cosmetic issue, that would be one thing, but having dozens of little glass shards blowing around in your oven has to be a food safety issue.

In researching this tonight, I iscovered that a lawsuit was filed July 9th in New York against Wolf regarding this issue. The plaintiffs are seeking class status. http://legalnewsline.com/stories/510625972-wolf-appliance-ovens-break-from-self-clean-function-lawsuit-says

-Perma



Wolf Appliance ovens break from self-clean function, lawsuit says

Thursday, Jul 9, 2015 @ 12:43pm by Shaun Zinck


BROOKLYN, N.Y. (Legal Newsline) - The maker of a high-end
dual fuel range oven is being sued over allegations its product breaks
during regular use.

Ivan and Melanie Kail filed the lawsuit on June 16 in United States
District Court in New York against Wolf Appliance claiming several
models of its Wolf Ovens with blue porcelain interiors are prone to chip
and crack while in use.

The lawsuit claims the chipping and cracking is due to the self-clean
function featured on the ovens. The suit names about 23 different models
of its Wolf Oven, and alleges the company falsely advertises the
product to customers.

The plaintiffs said in the suit that Wolf advertises that its ovens will
last a minimum of 20 years under heavy use. Wolf is aware of the issue,
the lawsuit claims, and has not complied with its two-year warranty
that it provides customers who purchase their ovens.

The plaintiffs are seeking class status for those who purchased a Wolf
Oven with the blue porcelain interior between March 13, 2011, and the
present. They are also seeking more than $5 million in damages plus
court costs.

The plaintiffs are represented by Mark S. Reich, Samuel H. Rudman and
Vincent M. Serra of Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd LLP in Melville,
N.Y.

United States District Court for the Eastern District of New York case number 2:15-cv-03513.



Comments (79)

  • weedmeister

    "You believe Wolf knows about this and for a decade refuses to fix it (or eliminate the problem by making a design change) ?"

    How about GM?

    How about VW?

    How about Ford? Firestone?

  • rivermh

    Thank you all. I do appreciate all the advice, shared opinions and knowledge.

  • kaseki

    The resurrection of this topic led me to perform a much needed self-clean of my dirtiest wall oven. The last and only previous self-clean was a few years ago. Post self-clean operation wiping-up did not show any chipping or blue flakes. There are some sparkling crystals of carbon that can be found, but they aren't blue. The following is relevant:

    Model DO30F/S production number M741520.

    This oven was burned-in ca. 2011 according to instructions given by someone quoting a service tech in a message back in 2009 that may be hard to uncover, although the message number applied to Google finds some references to it that I made in succeeding years. I repeat it below for anyone's interest. Note the description below is what I did taken from my notes, and differs slightly from the original directions, mainly in the maximum temperature where I limited myself to Wolf's suggested setting.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    NOTE: WOLF BURN-IN
    INSTRUCTIONS (for my ovens = DO30F/S) ARE 500F ON CONV. ROAST FOR 1 HR.

    Reference, THS msg0409232327865 where the instruction are asserted to be from a service tech.

    Burn-in for 30 minutes after reaching 250F, then let the oven cool
    then 350F for 30 minutes and cool
    then 450F for 40 minutes and cool
    Finally, 500F for 60 minutes and cool.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Other random thoughts:

    The standard four-hour self-clean cycle did not make all surface contamination removable.

    A true high-end oven would be all stainless steel, like a Lynx grill. There would be no coating to flake. This would allow cleaning the racks along with the oven walls. The self-clean temperature could be higher to assure carbon reduction in all corners and edges. This would require better insulation, and the cooling fan for the electronics would have to run until there was no chance of heat soak post self-clean.

    I can see from various markings that my door and gasket have areas where their marriage is on rocky ground. This is likely the cause of an early smoke-like coating inside the right display that I never bothered to agitate Wolf over.

    Soaking the well stained racks for two hours in water with a modest dose of Oxyclean powdered detergent allowed easy removal of crud with a stainless-steel pad and stiff plastic brush.

    kas

  • plllog

    Kas, for comparison, my Gaggenau takes longer than four hours to complete the cycle, though that does include cool down to safe temperature, all surface contamination is removed or turned to ash. They say the window is not included in the self cleaning, but it seems to come clean for me--not that it starts filthy. I do sponge out the whole oven first, as directed, to get the loose stuff. The rack holders go through the self clean, and the enamelled baking sheets and roaster pan can do, but might prevent the oven itself from fully cleaning and could require a second run empty. The only reason the wire racks can't go through is that the 905° F. is too much for the finish and they get dull and ugly.

    A true high end oven doesn't have to be stainless to work!

    I have two stainless interior ovens (steam and speed), neither of which have self clean. I like self clean. :) It's much easier, and so pristine!

  • hvtech42

    Yep, Wolf's self clean at 775º F is lower than most manufacturers.

    Kas just out of curiosity what kind of use do your ovens get on a weekly basis?

  • kaseki

    The short answer is "light-duty." Upper oven broiling has evolved into cooktop grilling (and more recently into external grill grilling; baking meat is sporadic. Lower oven cookie making etc. is sparse. Casseroles might be heated in either oven, but are also rare. Usage is more probable when there are guests for dinner. Hence, a year for us is probably like a few weeks for a large family with ravenous children.

    The take-away from my self-clean exercise is that while one sample does not a distribution make (that is, it is not statistically significant), there may be merit in a more gentle burn-in. I have no idea how many Wolf oven owners adopted the process that I used, much less the number that were free from chipping, or were subject to it anyway.

    kas

  • kaseki

    Note: I view the extended burn-in (if it has any value) as an annealing process for the coating. The factory burn-in is intended to burn off oils, which the extended process eventually achieves.

  • wekick

    I'm no engineer but have read about this and it seems annealing requires a much higher temperature and is a very controlled process. In some articles I read it is a calculated temperature but they mention between 900-1000F. There are very specialized furnaces for this. I think this would be done in the manufacturing process as applying the enamel requires higher temperatures. Even cheap glassware is treated in this way.

    It would be really strange to expect a customer to do the annealing. That's not to say that this stepped heating might not help it in some way maybe with the substrate. I followed the manufacturer's instructions on the initial burn in but at other times seasoned cast iron pans which was increasing the temp from 250-450F in 50F increments holding at 30 minutes and holding at 450 for 45 minutes. It still failed but took longer than some. I used it maybe once a week average as I have a wall oven.



  • kaseki

    I didn't mean annealing of the steel parts, but of the porcelain coating to the steel. Perhaps "annealing" was a non-optimal choice of words.

    kas

  • wekick

    I assumed you meant the porcelain.

  • hvtech42

    It looks like Wolf is going to play the "cosmetic damage only" card here.

    "87. Plaintiffs’ oven became unfit for the ordinary purpose of cooking food, self-cleaning and maintaining Wolf’s “signature aesthetics” because it developed chipping, cracking, crazing and/or flaking in the oven interior."

    "Wolf Appliance denies the allegations in paragraph 87 of the Complaint."

  • wekick

    Hopefully they bring a good pulmonologist and gastroenterologist to testify.

  • plllog

    Since when are shards of glass blowing around a food chamber cosmetic only? I would guess that the lawyers included "signature aesthetics" because the blue porcelaine was a listed feature, so its failure is the failure of a listed feature.

  • pugetsounder

    Considering a Wolf DF486. Does anyone know the status of this lawsuit?

  • Andrew Ng

    I'm considering the dual fuel DF366 Wolf range but having second thoughts. Anyone has this range and can comment on it? Issues with the blue enamel chipping? I'm leaning towards the Miele, at least I can get 10 years of warranty with it....

  • wekick

    I have written a lot about my experience with my Wolf DF and Wolf's response. It seems the ranges generally take longer to develop these issues and are often out of warranty. Put Wolf blue chipping in the search box on the appliance forum or google it.

  • Russ Barnard

    Wekick... post a link to the one where you had wolf responses.. heh. I am bored :P

  • Andrew Ng
    I did search a lot on the wolf DF blue enamel chipping but wasn't sure if Wolf has fixed the issue yet. Seems like it is an ongoing issue and is more likely to appear after self clean. I guess is better to stay away from it. The wolf DFs cost about the same as Miele, which is the other DF range I'm considering.
  • Sheila F

    Is this only happening with the duel range or the all gas range too?


  • Pam Zwieg

    I just used the oven clean feature on my Wolf oven. Sure enough some blue enamel chipped off near the edge by seal. Not happy. I have only had this oven since June 2016. Used oven just 4 times. Plan to call my salesman....

  • kalapointer

    Pam, which model oven do you have?

  • Pam Zwieg

    The model I have is: SO30PMSPH. 30inch Ss Pro Sngl Ele Bltin. $5149.00!!

  • kalapointer

    I had an E Series double wall oven that chipped and replaced it with another E Series with the help of my salesman and local Wolf distributor. The second oven also chipped, like yours, after a few times using it. I the had Wolf replace with the Pro M series double oven and haven't had any chipping in over a year's worth of use. Call Wolf and your salesman right away and get them to replace it. If you go with a M series you will pay the price difference. Good luck and come back to tell us the outcome.

  • wekick

    I believe SO30PMSPH is the M series.

  • kalapointer

    Google the model number and it says it is an E series model.

  • Pam Zwieg

    I will check with my salesman today....stay tuned, Arggggg

  • hvtech42

    Well, I haven't been on this forum in a while but it looks like not much has changed with Wolf. By the way, in response to the person who asked above, I checked on the lawsuit and there has been no meaningful progress (from a consumer's perspective) since I last posted about it. The process has been held up - hearings postponed and rescheduled, deadlines moved, etc. Also I saw something about an order for confidentiality, so we probably won't know much about anything until it's over. Makes sense, obviously they're doing to be digging into a lot of stuff that Wolf doesn't want to be public knowledge.


    And now we have our first report of the M chipping... if this were a different oven I'd chalk it up to bad luck but given Wolf's history, we all have to wonder if the M fixed the problem at all. Shame, since their ovens have consistently been reported as the most even bakers, an M series that retained that performance while adding in durability would have been an easy recommendation. In a way though, it's not super surprising, since if they really thought they'd fixed the problem, would they have kept selling the unchanged E series and dual fuel ranges?

  • breezygirl

    Pam--Do you in fact have the M series oven Wekick posted? What's the status of your oven?

    I'm currently living with my 2nd set of L series Wolf ovens (both have chipped porcelain) awaiting the installation of the M series as a replacement. I'm trying hard to believe that the new M's aren't chipping now also. Ugh! I don't want to go through yet another oven issue.

  • b17nav

    I'm on my 2nd E series, with the same problem. Luckily both were in warranty but don't really want this to continually happen!

  • kalapointer

    b17nav, I have had the bottom of the Pro M oven replaced due to chipping. The new bottom looks good so far.

  • b17nav

    kalapointer, We called today and they are telling us to switch to the M series. How long has it been since yours was replaced?

  • Mistman

    My E series is chipping after the 2nd self-clean, argh!

  • b17nav

    Mistman I never even turned my self cleaner on as it was only 9 months old, and hadn't been through a major holiday of cooking yet. Yes, very disappointing!

  • knarsbears

    I have not used the self-cleaning feature due to the bad press I've read and heard about from friends who experienced the shattered oven glass. My entire kitchen is outfitted with Wolf appliances and the blue porcelain lining of one of my ovens is chipping, crazed and appears to be developing a patch of rust. I called Wolf and was told that nothing could be done given the fact that our appliances are more than 5 years old. The 5-year warranty for these high-end appliances is unreasonable, in my opinion. This WOLF experience is very disappointing and I will be researching other products for replacement/renovation.

  • Dave Cohen

    Are there any California residents who had Wolf oven porcelain issues?

  • carladr

    following

  • T F

    Bringing this back up because we are planning a kitchen remodel, and our appliance salesman is strongly promoting a new-old-stock L series Wolf single wall oven. The price is attractive (about the same as a higher-end Samsung), but 1) the research on this issue makes me want to stay away from any Wolf E- or L-series oven manufactured in the past several years, and 2) I am frankly not comfortable with the pushiness of the salesman on this point. Any thoughts from the hivemind?

  • wekick

    I think it started about 10 years ago and was reported a few weeks ago on their "M" oven.

    To me it is astounding that it is still going on. Ask if the dealer will give a written 10 year warranty on the liner. They won't even guarantee replacement liners past 1 year.

  • kane kure

    bookmarked

  • Jade O.


    Terrible! My $6,000 wolf wall oven that is used less than 10 times and only 1 year old already chipped by self clean mode!

  • b17nav

    porcelain chards from my oven, less than I year old and never used the self clean


  • b17nav

    Jade O,

    Which model do you have?

  • wekick

    B17nav, It has happened in all of their products with a blue liner.

  • dwasifar

    Signed up just to comment on this thread.


    The chipping problem exists with blue liners from other makers too. I just got bought out for a two-year-old Electrolux where the blue porcelain was disintegrating. Unfortunately it's getting harder to find an oven that is NOT blue inside.


    We bought a new-in-box discontinued Wolf L-series double oven to replace the Electrolux. Obviously I am concerned about this happening again, so I'm being careful. I just finished the break-in as posted by Kaseki (250 for 30, 350 for 30, 450 for 40, 500 for 60 min). I understand what Kaseki meant by annealing (though I would think of it as something more like curing or heat-treating), and it seems logical that breaking the coating into service gradually might reduce the kind of stresses that cause it to fracture.


    To be extra cautious, I called Wolf's support line before doing this, and got a thumbs-up. Their official position is that you only need to burn in once, at 500-550 for an hour, but they said that the more gradual burn-in is fine; at worst it can't hurt, and maybe it will help.


    They also told me that there was a mid-production design change of the L-series, beginning with serial number 17077136. Past that serial number, Wolf will replace the liner if the porcelain deteriorates. Lower numbered units are not repairable, and Wolf will replace the entire unit with something else. If I were in that position, I would argue to receive an M-series oven on the grounds that the E-series does not have convection in the lower oven.

  • b17nav

    Thanks for the good info. My L series double oven had to be replaced twice, within months, and the 3rd time they gave me an M series at no extra charge, because if the chipping happens with the M they just swap out the panels instead of the entire oven. Still a pain, but so far so good. Funny, when you call to tell them about the problem, they act like they’ve never of heard it before. I have to say, they were very accommodating.

  • dwasifar

    B17nav, what break-in procedure did you use?

  • b17nav

    Set the oven to high heat, between 400 to 550 degrees Fahrenheit (204 to 288 degrees Celsius). Let the oven run at this temperature for between 30 minutes and an hour.

    This is what they recommended.

  • dwasifar

    Yeah, I saw something similar in the manual:


    "Cool with the door closed" takes a LONG time coming down from that temperature. It's been three hours since I finished break-in, and it's still pretty hot.

  • wekick

    “The chipping problem exists with blue liners from other makers too.”

    I have personally had that experience with Dacor, Electrolux x2 and Wolf but it is reported on just about every brand that has “blue” except Gaggenau.

    This is from their website. So it can be done.

    I used stepped heating to season cast iron several times but it did nothing to prevent the enamel from chipping in my range oven. The instructions in the manual to heat are to remove manufacturing oils.

    “I understand what Kaseki meant by annealing (though I would think of it as something more like curing or heat-treating)”

    Can you give any links to anything that would talk about that? This problem has been going on so long, you would think if it was as simple as that, they would do it in the factory.


    “They also told me that there was a mid-production design change of the L-series, beginning with serial number 17077136. Past that serial number, Wolf will replace the liner if the porcelain deteriorates. Lower numbered units are not repairable, and Wolf will replace the entire unit with something else.”

    This would only be during the two year warranty. Wolf has always made a swap during the first two years. Some have had multiple swaps. Read one of the lawsuits. My range was out of warranty. It becomes a profit center after the warranty is out.


    “If I were in that position, I would argue to receive an M-series oven on the grounds that the E-series does not have convection in the lower oven.”

    An M does not have a variable speed convection and has some issues with hot spotting on the sides so not necessarily an upgrade, but is easier to repair.

Need help with an existing Houzz order? Call 1-800-368-4268 (Mon-Sun).