Either will work so it is basically just a personal preference. Freezing them is easier to do as it is just sliced apples in a light sugar syrup and you add the rest of the pie ingredients are prep time. So if time is a consideration freezing saves time. Most importantly, no Clear Jel is required for freezing them.

On the other hand our house much prefers the taste and texture of canned pie filling and it is more "ready-to-use" than frozen apples. But we, and others, do not like the effect of Clear Jel (the only approved thickener for pie fillings). So what we do is make the apple pie filling leaving out all thickeners, can it, then add the thickener of choice at prep time.

Dave

http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_02/can_pie/apple_filling.html

I want to go with the best taste and texture. Since it is a high acid water bath canning recipe, I think I will go with the canning. Plus, the freezer is full. I am going to leave out the thickener. I will add some lemon to be safe -- it is an ingredient in apple pie anyway. Thanks.

Yeah the recipe calls for adding lemon juice anyway. Not only does it help preserve the color but it covers the borderline pH issue of many apple varieties.

Dave

I also can apple slices in a light syrup, then thicken the syrup and add spices when I bake the pies. I did can a couple of batches of pie filling with Clear Jel, but I just don't care for that gelatinous goo that I get with that type of thickener.

I also have no freezer space, although I've been known to mix all the ingredients for pie filling in with the apple slices, and package a pie's worth so I could just dump the frozen slices into a pie crust and bake. It works well, but takes freezer space.

I've also dehydrated apple slices, which re-hydrate well and translate into pretty decent pie too, so there's another option.

Annie

I didn't put the thickener and the apples are floating. I put 1 tbsp of lemon in each jar, more than the recipe called for. I am sure it is fine but I just want to be sure.... If we make a pie it won't just be us eating it so....

<I put 1 tbsp of lemon in each jar, more than the recipe called for. >

Which recipe? The NCHFP recipe calls for 2 T of lemon juice per quart jar and so do the BBB.

Dave

Floating is fine, I just thicken the syrup, stir in the apples and pour it into a crust. I can't comment about your acidification, as I don't know your recipe.

Annie

I think it came from here - http://www.simplycanning.com/canning-apple-pie-filling.html ... I assumed this was a legimitate source? 3T for 6 Quarts.

The NCHFP doesn't say that lemon is required unless I am missing something?http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_02/can_pie/apple_filling.html

Where is required lemon juice on this recipe?

Also I did not find reference to apple ph over 4.6. They are all listed below 4.

The lemon juice requirement is number 7 in the list of ingredients.Blanched, sliced fresh apples3-1/2 cups6 quartsGranulated sugar3/4 cup + 2 tbsp5-1/2 cupsClear Jel®1/4 cup1-1/2 cupCinnamon1/2 tsp1 tbspCold Water1/2 cup2-1/2 cupsApple juice3/4 cup5 cupsBottled lemon juice2 tbsp3/4 cup

< I assumed this was a legimitate source? 3T for 6 Quarts.>

It can be risky to make assumptions like that? Especially when compared to the tested and approved recipes. There are previous discussions here about this personal blog and there are all sorts of unsafe canning sources out there on the web. Until one has the foundation knowledge to evaluate them it is best to remain with the approved sources..

I know you are trying to avoid acid in your foods but in some cases it just isn't possible and retain the shelf safety. That is why using citric acid rather than lemon juice is recommended.

Dave

Ah yes, I was just skimming it on my phone.

What exactly is "approved" sources? I don't imagine the government approves any sources other than themselves, so who is doing the approving? Is there some kind of list somewhere you are referring to? Or do you mean only use recipes listed on the NCHFP website?

The syrup is 1:2 sugar:water as well. Doesn't this also provide safety, in addition to the fact that the apples are high acid?

Honestly I find a lot of this kind of arbitrary..... Apples are high acid, are they not, are there any documented cases of apple varieties producing apples with a Ph above 4.6, that are not rotting? If we are going to be afraid to water bath can apples with an average Ph in the area of 3.5, then we might as well say water bath canning isn't safe at all....

How about UC Davis? Is that an appropriate source? They say apples are high acid and make no mention of requiring lemon juice, unless this publication is outdated. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/8229.pdf&ved=0CD8QFjAIahUKEwjcvPyw4_fHAhUBXB4KHRa3DnY&usg=AFQjCNF2khhT8Tw956gj7XqDNG25_CFVaQ&sig2=DISKR_3eS9CtMInRP7opEw

I see that Clemson, Colorado State, Penn State, etc., all say that apple slices can be canned in syrup, and none call for lemon juice. Nor do the directions from NCHFC, which are copied and pasted as follows:

Procedure: Wash, peel, and core apples. To prevent discoloration, slice apples into water containing ascorbic acid. Raw packs make poor quality products. Place drained slices in large saucepan and add 1 pint water or very light, light, or medium syrup per 5 pounds of sliced apples. Boil 5 minutes, stirring occasionally to prevent burning. Fill jars with hot slices and hot syrup or water, leaving 1/2-inch headspace. Adjust lids and process.

It appears that sliced apples do not require lemon juice for canning, only the apple pie filling itself, unless I'm missing something, and I've been reading over different extension service sites for quite a time now.

Annie

What exactly is "approved" sources? I don't imagine the government approves any sources other than themselves, so who is doing the approving? Is there some kind of list somewhere you are referring to? Or do you mean only use recipes listed on the NCHFP website?

The Ball Corporation (Jarden in Canada) publications on home canning have been held as THE approved source for over 100 years. The are often referred to as the canning bible and are well known for their ongoing research and updated publications on safety issues. This was long before the USDA or FDA came into existence. Also for decades Rodale Publishing was also regarded as totally safe in their canning publications. Unfortunately they quit maintaining the currency of their canning publications when NCHFP was created but with a few exceptions most of their publications are still valid.

In addition there are the USDA and FDA publications, all the publications from NCHFP, all the publications from the many land-grant university extension services, and many publication from well-known food scientists such as Linda Ziedrich, Ellie Topp, Margaret Howard, etc. People who have the educational credentials and research background to know what they are talking about as opposed to the many bloggers and authors that merely subscribe to the "it hasn't killed anyone yet" school of science.

There are a number of discussions here about what constitutes approved sources, which books are approved and which should be avoided, and reviews of various canning blogs pro and con.

There used to be a number of MFP's (Master Food Preservers) that participated here on a regular basis and we made a concerted effort to review new publications and websites as they came up. Unfortunately Deanna and I are the only ones we have heard from since the move to Houzz but all that past info from the others is still available here and classes are available to anyone who wishes to takes them through their local county extension service. If you don't want to invest the time in getting the MFP credentials then take some basic classes or even the basic online course offered by NCHFP is a place to start.

Honestly I find a lot of this kind of arbitrary.

I'm sure it does seem that way when one is new to the process or has none of the underlying science training. But they aren't arbitrary. There are valid reasons, based in research and testing for all these guidelines. So everyone is left choices:

(1) to either get the training so that they do understand it all and know where changes can and cannot be made

(2) or accept them at face value and do them in order to have the assurances of safety they provide

(3) or to challenge, question, ignore, and criticize them and just do their own thing when it comes to canning as long as they willingly accept the associated risks that come with that approach.

The internet has plenty of blogs and forums that have adopted #3 approach and preach against the accepted guidelines. In some cases it is because they don't know any better, in some cases it is because they don't care, and in some cases it is because they claim to hate the government and reject all that it stands for or represents.

This particular forum has long had the reputation of being safety oriented, or rejecting the make-it-up-as-you-go-along canning methods, and a place where those new to home canning can get safe advice. Are the guidelines perfect? Of course not. But they are the best and safest options we have available.

Dave

<It appears that sliced apples do not require lemon juice for canning, only the apple pie filling itself,>

True depending on the book edition as the newest editions are now adding lemon juice to applesauce and as a side-note recommendation on the apple slices. The reasoning is that many of the newest varieties of apples are close to borderline pH and since pH doesn't remain stable on the shelf but rises, adding the lemon juice adds an extra margin of safety. There is also the consideration that many use windfall apples for canning and windfalls have always called for the addition of lemon juice because of their higher pH and higher bacterial count.

The pie filling requires it because of the extra thickness. It compensates for any heat penetration issues. So yes, in theory, if you don't use the Clear Jel or any other thickener you could leave out the lemon juice/citric acid.

But the bottom line IMO is that adding it hurts nothing - there is little to no change in taste and only a marginal change in pH yet it increases safety, better preserves color, and increases shelf life so why not use it?

Dave

Dave:

The word "approved" is completely misleading. No one is approving anything. Unless of course you mean approved by you, or approved by general consensus - which is a matter of opinion. As I have a UC Davis publication not requiring acidification for apples from as recent as 8 years ago, I would say that constitutes an "approved" source (the correct word here would be reputable, or perhaps professional.)

I think I understand the science quite well (though of course I am still learning and was trying to learn more), and aside from that I am exercising appropriate caution and looking for information in correct sources (I thought that canning blog was merely reposting the NCHFP recipe - I am glad I checked) and would have appreciated it if you addressed my legitimate questions to help increase my knoweldge, and the link I provided, instead of going on a condescending rant (I understand that was maybe not your intention but that is certainly how it comes across to me.) Not only do you consider yourself smart and knowledgable enough to make changes to recipes, but you tell people online whether the changes they want to make is safe or not, and I find your attitude completely hypocritical, considering you are not an "approved" source. I am fully entitled to expand my knowledge and in the future to use my own judgment, just as you are.

For the record, I would throw the containers out without a second thought if I could not find backup that the recipe was safe. Also, they were not rotted or windfall apples, they were peeled, and there was no thickener added, unless you count sugar, which increases the safety rather than decreasing as far as I know (but would welcome to learn otherwise), the tree is quite old and not some new hybrid variety, and I added a significant amount of lemon juice anyway. Since the apple slices recipe does not require lemon, and the only changes I made to the recipe were adding sugar (which the recipes notes you can add) and spices, I think that also constitutes an "approved" recipe: http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_02/apple_sliced.html . That's two sources, so I am not really sure why you keep implying the recipe (as I made it) is unsafe.

Rant? Trust me that was no rant. I gave very careful thought and did a lot of editing in responding to your questions.

A rant would have been something along the line of - these are hardly new questions you're posting. They are just new to you, not to us. They have been discussed and debated to death here numerous times over many years. So if you don't like my answers use the search button here and you can read the same info from upmteen other people. You don't like the guidelines? Fine. You find them arbitrary? Fine. You don't like the answers you get here? Fine. Plenty of other canning forums on the web. Do what you wish and live with the risks. Just don't expect those of us who do have the education in safe home canning practices to agree with you.

Now that's a rant!

---------------------------

Not only did I say that yes if you weren't adding the thickener you could leave out the lemon juice if you wish but I also pointed out the UCDavis Extension, just like all the university extensions are considered legit sources as all their info comes from NCHFP and Ball (the primary legitimate sources). If you want to nitpick the word "approved" that's your issue as it is a term commonly used as it is the nature of the research - testing and approving or making changes.

The "approval" comes from Ball, USDA, NCHFP, FDA, and from others who do the research and have the scientific credentials to "approve" the instructions. It has nothing to do with any approval from me other than I am well versed in their research and results because I am certified to teach classes. So yeah, as an MFP certified by USDA to teach others in approved canning practices I am an "approved" source. As such I have tried to answer all your questions. If those answers weren't clear I'm happy to try to clarify - such as the difference between canning apple pie filling (your OP) vs canning plain apple slices (which isn't the same thing). But if those answers just weren't what you wanted to hear then I probably can't help you.

Dave

In the future, I will stick to the search function, and avoid both kinds of your rants, thanks. I don't think you realize the ambiguousness of how you sound, you give a hypothetical rant where you imply my canned apples are unsafe and that I am not following appropriate guidelines when I am (I made a mistake and when I realized it I was looking to see if I had to correct it by throwing it away - just as you would want me to do), and then you go on to say the opposite. I give up trying to figure out what is meant to be directed at me.

The simple answer to this convoluted back-and-forth is, I didn't thicken the liquid, add any low acid ingredients, and wound up following the sliced apples recipe, acidification is not required (for safety), as apples (barring special circumstances) are in fact high acid, making them safe for canning in a water bath.

I also want to add that unless you post your real name, proof of your credentials, and take liability for your advice, you most definitely do not qualify as an "approved" source. As far as I know you are nothing more than an anonymous name on a message board and no more credible than that blog, and unless that is untrue it is hypocritical to suggest otherwise. At least the blog has the person's name on it.

Dave, I got my instructions from NCFHP, on line, and their instructions for canning slices does not mention lemon juice or citric acid, unless I'm really missing something, and I've read it several times.

My issue with lemon juice is that my mother is allergic to lemons, so I leave it out of everything. Unfortunately, I love lemon and so stick to my lemon meringue pie and lemon curd and don't put lemon in salsa, canned tomatoes or canned fruit, as I can't risk the chance that Mother (who is 80), might eat some. I do put citric acid in my tomatoes and keep my fruit from oxidizing by immersing the cut slices/chunks in water with ascorbic acid, which is only Vitamin C. I crush tablets or open capsules and dissolve them into the water, far cheaper than Fruit Fresh which is the same thing, basically.

Anyway, I can my apple slices in light syrup with no acidifier, as directed by the National Center for Home Food Preservation, which is, apparently, the ultimate authority.

Annie