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mamacat21

What can we reasonably "save for later" in a new build?

mamacat21
7 years ago

I love quality materials, details, and carpentry in a home. I could probably spend $100k on finish carpentry alone in our to-be-built ~3200 sqft house! Haha! But I really can't do that, as we have a budget, like everyone.

Our financial situation will be much different in 5 years. We're planning to live here for the rest of our lives. We're both in our early 30s, so 50+ years if we're lucky! So I figure we have time for the house to grow with us. Of course, I'd love to wait, save our pennies, and do it right from the start, but we can't really afford to wait either. My thought is that it's better to build the square footage, windows, exterior cladding, do all that stuff correctly now, as I imagine those are much harder upgrades and have a much higher "sunk" cost. I might go with a less expensive roof now though, knowing a shingle roof will need to be replaced at some point anyway.


My thoughts so far on what to save for later:

~Much of the trim and finish carpentry, like columns, coffered ceiling, built-in bookcases, benches, window seats. I'm thinking go with a nice baseboard now and leave off any crown and all of the special built-ins, wrap the columns in sheet rock. Would a window seat be a reasonable thing to do later? I'm assuming it's not really tied into the wall structurally, but a box built in front of the window. My husband is a novice woodworker, so I'm hoping in a few years, he'll be comfortable doing this stuff himself. This is my favorite idea because I feel like there is hardly any "sunk" cost - nothing to rip out.

~Carpet or lower cost flooring in many areas. How hard is it to upgrade to hardwood or engineered wood later? Will we have to remove the baseboards? (And if so, maybe we'd be better to go with something cheap there now as well.) Can I buy this myself and give it to the contractor, or will they almost always have access to better pricing?

~Laminate counters and cheaper hardware in kitchen. I think I would rather splurge on nice cabinets, but save money on the counters and pulls. Honestly, I think a lot of people want to upgrade their counters after 10 years or so anyway!

~Inexpensive plumbing fixtures and light fixtures. Maybe even purchase them myself and give them to the contractor to install? That way I can buy clearance items.

~Stone around fireplace.


Any reason some of those are bad ideas, that I really should go ahead and let the builder do now? I realize this is far from the most cost-effective way to do this, but we really need to get in the house as soon as possible.

Thank you for your advice!

Comments (60)

  • lakeerieamber
    7 years ago

    I totally get where you are coming from. I think your plans sounds like good ones to me. I think you could possibly even think of putting in basic kitchen cabinets and then just upgrade the whole kitchen at some point and donate the old kitchen to habitat or something like that. In 10 years you may be ready for gorgeous new countertops but your expensive cabinets may be out of style and you will resent having to keep them. Just a thought. Right now we are putting all of the things we want into our quote. If it comes back too high then we'll be right with you cutting the things we can do later ourselves. We need the space and the flow now. I can live with vinyl, carpet, and no builtins for a few years as long as the structure is well done.

    mamacat21 thanked lakeerieamber
  • mamacat21
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    So now that I know you're pregnant, where will the baby sleep for the first year if you're both downstairs? Will you really want the baby upstairs while you're downstairs? (Sorry I don't remember if you already have a child)

    The baby is crawling! We also have a toddler, a preschooler, and a teenager - and we're done. Although, all three of the youngest babies have slept in a bassinet in our master bedroom for their first year. We could always use the office if we needed a kid to sleep downstairs for some reason. (Given the space constraints of our current home, one kid shares a room with the office now anyway.)

    I can't see sizes, but am wondering if there's a way for you to cut down on some of the square footage and still have it work well?

    Maybe? But that's where I get hung up. If we're going to live here for 50 years, I want comfortable spaces - no 3 foot tunnels where hallways should be, etc. We can't widen the hallway by a foot in 5 years. We thought about building in phases, maybe adding a wing later, but what would it be? Maybe the office and laundry, but that seems so much more disruptive than replacing a countertop.

    Frankly, I'd first eliminate that fireplace. That there will save you $3000-$5000.

    I don't care about the fireplace but my husband is insistent. That and a "real" office are basically his only requests. But could we do the stone later, since it's a gas unit?

    And that big tub for you is nice, but there too is savings of another $2500-$5000.

    Good point. Maybe we don't put that in now.

    And quite frankly, growing up 3 of us girls shared one bathroom, and we survived. Do you really need 2 full baths upstairs? There alone would be a savings of $10,000-$20,000. This is what I was saying above about building smaller and wiser.

    Need? I guess not. They all share one bathroom now. (And we all shared one bathroom for a week after a pipe burst.) But we want two bathrooms up there eventually, and how do we add a bathroom? Other than to have the space available but simply not finish it out? That's what we're going to do over the garage.

  • mamacat21
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I thought of two more: kitchen/laundry appliances and landscaping/hardscaping. I want an induction stove so bad but maybe I have to live with a cheapy electric for a few more years.

    The landscaping one seems easy, too, since there's really nothing being replaced. We'll just leave it natural for now.

  • mrspete
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Respectfully, without knowing the specifics of our financials, how do
    you know that would be a better plan? (Though in general I agree with
    you, in this case, it's actually not.)

    You've made it clear that you can't afford to build the house you want. You say you're being rushed by the loan on the land. The real crisis-in-the-making is the need to pay off the land within the three years. It seems clear to me that the answer to this potential crisis isn't to build a semblance of the house you actually want.

    On the other hand, if you pay off the land (though that doesn't get you out of your current "cozy" house), you've built equity for your future. The land is yours, and in five years when your financial situation changes, you're better prepared financially to build.

    If your reaction to this is to say, "But we can't afford to pay off the land in time to meet the three-year requirement", I'd ask how you could pay off the land PLUS a 3000+ sf house PLUS lots of upgrades (which would total to more than your current land cost plus a "cozy house" mortgage).

    What do you mean by well planned, the floorplan or the desire to upgrade finishes?

    I mean it's smarter to take your time and plan the house that's going to work for you (you're still in the planning process). And it's smarter to build the finishes you actually want (rather than spending more money and energy later -- and filling the landfills in the process).

    Honestly, I see red flags all over this plan, but that's all I'm going to say about it.

    I meant I wasn't going to quibble, but since you asked, these are the red flags I see, though they're a little repetitive:

    - You admit you're rushing into this because of pressure from the lot loan. Rushing into major financial choices is never the right choice.

    - You admit you can't afford to build the house you really want, yet you're interested in lots of expensive details like window seats, etc. -- I understand that; we all want nice things! You're saying that you can't afford these details, yet you're trying to find a way to pay for a cheaper version PLUS the version you actually want. How does that make sense? In short, you're trying to find a way to build beyond your means -- something that just can't work.

    - You're counting on your financial situation changing in five years. That's a gamble. You say you have a teenager; in five years, won't you be paying college expenses?

    - You're young, with young children, and you're buying into the idea of a "forever house" already. Not many people actually stay in the same house forever. Jobs change, family circumstances change, neighborhoods change.

    Let me reframe the question ... Would you discourage us from buying this house just because we couldn't afford to upgrade all the finishes to exactly what we want before we moved in? Knowing that there would never be another opportunity for this home?

    Not the same situation at all. If you were looking at this house ready-built, you could know the price for certain. You could look at the price of this hypothetical house and could accurately gauge your ability to pay -- and could balance it against other important financial issues for young couples such as saving for retirement and college. You wouldn't be going into the build process without having finished
    paying for the land and without being fully prepared for overages,
    unforeseen costs, and upgrades that're sure to tempt you.

    I don't mean to sound rude, but this plan doesn't seem wise.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    First I think you're thinking it through quite thoroughly. From the design of the house, to what needs to be done now, and what can be upgraded.

    I agree with the person who mentioned about doing cheaper cabinets too. IKEA cabinets are wonderful and will last the 5-10 years you'll need them. Definitely price out IKEA as an option for the kitchen and then you might be able to afford your induction stove. To me, that's not a luxury but a necessity, especially with toddlers. Think burnt fingers.

    The baby is crawling! We also have a toddler, a preschooler, and a teenager - and we're done.

    You're a better woman than me. LOL. I stopped at 2. Ok one thing to consider is that in a few years, the teen will be gone. So that leaves 3. As for the baby sleeping arrangement, it's obviously not an issue. I misunderstood

    Maybe? But that's where I get hung up. If we're going to live here for 50 years, I want comfortable spaces - no 3 foot tunnels where hallways should be, etc. We can't widen the hallway by a foot in 5 years.

    Hallways ideally should be a minimum of 42" wide.

    One thing to consider is if you're planning on living there in 50 years, how will you get upstairs? Can you plan now for possibly putting in an elevator in 30 years? :)

    We thought about building in phases, maybe adding a wing later, but what would it be? Maybe the office and laundry, but that seems so much more disruptive than replacing a countertop.

    You have 4 kids at home. You NEED the laundry and I assume your husband has a reason for needing his office.

    I don't care about the fireplace but my husband is insistent. That and a "real" office are basically his only requests. But could we do the stone later, since it's a gas unit?

    Yes you could do the stone or whatever you decide in the future later.

    And that big tub for you is nice, but there too is savings of another $2500-$5000.

    Good point. Maybe we don't put that in now.

    If it's something you use 3-4x a week, I'd say put it in, but if it's used less or only occasionally, I would leave it out for now. In fact, given the choice, I think you'd be better off putting a second sink in the master, and ditching the tub altogether.

    And quite frankly, growing up 3 of us girls shared one bathroom, and we survived. Do you really need 2 full baths upstairs? There alone would be a savings of $10,000-$20,000. This is what I was saying above about building smaller and wiser.

    Need? I guess not. They all share one bathroom now. (And we all shared one bathroom for a week after a pipe burst.) But we want two bathrooms up there eventually, and how do we add a bathroom?

    Why do you want two bathrooms up there? Actually come to think of it, my kids and us shared one bathroom for the 16 years we lived in our old house and we all managed just fine. One boy, one girl and Mom and Dad. We had 2 half baths downstairs so if the "need" arose, we did have enough commodes.

    Other than to have the space available but simply not finish it out? That's what we're going to do over the garage.

    Think really hard about how you use your space now, and how the space will need to be used as the kids grow and plan accordingly.

    You can do nice without breaking the budget but it takes a bit more planning and thinking.

    mamacat21 thanked cpartist
  • lakeerieamber
    7 years ago

    I can't remember what your bathroom looked like on your plan upstairs but is it possible to do one bigger bathroom - double sinks with a separate room for the toilet and shower- instead of 2? I have 3 boys and they are sharing a bathroom now and will in the next house so I can't speak if this would get annoying if you have both genders.

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  • lakeerieamber
    7 years ago

    And there is no way I could survive as a mom to 3 young boys without my big bathtub both for their water fun at bath time and for my own sanity time. ;)

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  • edlincoln
    7 years ago

    Wow, you asked such a good question, and no one is taking it seriously.

    One of the problems with this site, as with HGTV, is that it tends to steer you towards the pretty finishes. People can see your kitchen or bathroom in a single shot...they don't have to live there. They'll egg you on to spend more and more.

    Sitting here in a tiny apartment, and knowing about the over-decorated, under-sized disaster my Mom's interior decorator friend's house became, I know square footage matters.


    Things to skimp on:
    1.) Doorknobs
    2.) Lighting fixtures
    3.) Cabinets
    4.) Kitchen Counter tops
    (This is heresy, but everything in the kitchen but the plumbing and electrical wiring...there is a whole industry built around renovating kitchens. And tastes change so much your dream kitchen today will seem dated in ten years.)
    5.) Annuals
    6.) Lawn
    7.) Interior Doors?
    8.) Interior Walls?

    Things NOT to Skimp on:
    (Things hard to change later)
    1.) Home Siting (You don't HAVE to put the house right near the road...where you put it makes a big difference for views and energy efficiency and is hard to change.)
    2.) Basement Waterproofing (lesson from my brother)
    3.) French Drains/Grading (ditto...If water is an issue where you are).
    4.) Insulation
    5.) Trees (unlike other things, these improve with time...a two year old tree you buy now will cost a lot less then a twelve year old tree you buy in ten years and have a better root system)
    6.) Electrical Wiring.
    7.) Where you run the water pipes (as opposed to fixtures)

    mamacat21 thanked edlincoln
  • mamacat21
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Oh dear. mrspete - perhaps you aren't meaning to be rude, but I've said multiple times that, in our specific case, it is more beneficial to keep our money elsewhere for the next few years than to pay for the lot outright. It is a certainty that our financial situation will change - there's no gamble. We have no reason to assume we won't live here for the rest of our lives (my parents built, they still live there. His parents built, they still live there. Our jobs are very secure. Etc, etc, etc...)

    You assume that we aren't saving for college or retirement. Maybe when I say "afford," you assume I mean, "it will put us in dangerdanger of losing our home." Nonsense. I mean that we have financial priorities. It feels very much like you're telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about with regards to my own money and life circumstances. If not rude, how else would you describe that?

    My husband and I have an excellent financial advisor. I'm not on Houzz asking for overall financial advice. I'm asking for any potential negatives of making specific upgrades in the future, or if anyone has other ideas for relatively easy future upgrades.

  • mamacat21
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    On the issue of rushing, we're actually not rushing. This was the plan all along... ride the loan while letting money work elsewhere for a few years, then roll it into the new mortgage.

  • mamacat21
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I agree with the person who mentioned about doing cheaper cabinets too. IKEA cabinets are wonderful and will last the 5-10 years you'll need them.


    Ohhhh IKEA, I didn't even think of that, and they really look pretty good for the price. Thanks!


    Ok one thing to consider is that in a few years, the teen will be gone. So that leaves 3.


    That's why we decided to do 3 bedrooms upstairs instead of 4. By then, we'll have likely finished the area over the garage and it'll be a guest/visiting adult-teen loft.


    If it's something you use 3-4x a week, I'd say put it in, but if it's used less or only occasionally, I would leave it out for now. In fact, given the choice, I think you'd be better off putting a second sink in the master, and ditching the tub altogether.

    Probably once a week or less at this point, maybe more in the future.

    Why do you want two bathrooms up there?

    One for the girls, one for the boy. Thinking teenage years where they might want more privacy from each other.

  • mamacat21
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Lakeerieamber - we have two boys, two girls, though oldest boy is quite a bit older. It's probably not a big deal, but I was thinking as teens they might appreciate a little separation from each other when the girls start doing hair or makeup and needing feminine hygiene products and the boy needs to shave and starts spending 45 minutes in the shower. Ugh. Haha

  • mamacat21
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Edlincoln, I hadn't thought of doorknobs! Thank you!

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    As I mentioned mamacat, we had a boy and a girl and an adult couple who all used the same one upstairs bathroom, and no one complained or said they needed a separate bathroom. I would save the money.

    I agree and disagree with some of what edlincoln thought to skimp and splurge on now.

    7.) Interior Doors? Do not skimp on interior doors. Do not for example use hollow core doors.
    8.) Interior Walls? I wouldn't skimp here either.

    Things NOT to Skimp on:
    5.) Trees (unlike other things, these improve with time...a two year old tree you buy now will cost a lot less then a twelve year old tree you buy in ten years and have a better root system) There is no rush to buy trees. They can be bought one or two a year for the next several years.

  • edlincoln
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    cpartist: What's the problem with skimping on interior doors? Replacing bedroom doors is something a do-it-your-selfer can reasonably learn to do themselves, and I don't see how it would be more expensive to do after the home is built. They don't pose a safety risk. With these "Open Floorplans" a lot of people seem to skip interior doors entirely.

    As far as the trees...I'm more a frequenter of the tree forum, and really care more about trees then kitchens. I've seen lots of people, a few years after they buy a house, hysterically saying they need privacy NOW and being seduced by fast growing (but weak wooded) trees or huge expensive "balled and burlapped" trees with mutilated root systems.

    Out of curiosity, what points did you like?

  • Suru
    7 years ago

    I'm sorry that you had to justify your financial choices to strangers on the Internet. Build that 3200 sf house that will suit you and your family's life and future. Don't skimp on the square footage and the bathrooms you think you will need. It's your house and you know better than anyone what will work for your family. IMO, you have a very nice and livable plan.

    A few things to suggest from years of experience: First, if you want a coffered ceiling put it in now. If it's on the second floor, the roof truss manufacturer can make trusses that will accommodate it. It's not a tremendous up-charge for those trusses, but if you add it later it will be a big pain and probably expensive. Even if you had to conventionally frame a soffit for the coffered ceiling on the first floor, it wouldn't add a huge amount to the framing and drywall costs.

    Secondly, if you tear out the carpet and install wood flooring, you do not need to tear out the baseboard. You can install a small base shoe to cover the gap between the flooring and the existing baseboard. I've done it many, many, times and it looks great.

    Lastly, interior finishes are the best way to save money and you have thought up some GREAT ideas where you can upgrade later. You are going to have a lovely house!

  • mushcreek
    7 years ago

    I'm all for cheaper interior finishes. For one thing, kids are hard on stuff- Kitchen cabinets get dinged up, doors and other trim take a beating, carpets are asked to absorb all sorts of abuse.

    I'm on here all the time, and I'm shocked at what people spend, especially in the kitchen. I've had Formica counters all of my 62 years, and to me, they look and function just fine. Same goes for plain old surface mount stainless steel sinks. I've found that some of the old-school plumbing fixtures hold up better than the new-fangled ones. The old Delta chrome faucet without pull-downs and sprayers is pretty bullet proof. The same goes for bathrooms.

    We're in a different category altogether, having built our own house, and being empty-nesters. But we were on a desperately tight budget, and economized everywhere we could. We didn't limit ourselves on carefully siting the house, ICF construction with lots of attention to energy efficiency and careful waterproofing of the basement. We used Marvin windows which are performing beautifully. We used basic, but quality exterior finishes- Nichiha fiber cement siding and trim and a metal roof for long life and low maintenance. The house is a simple rectangle with no added bumps, jogs, and useless gables all over the place.

    Inside, everything is simple but quality. The kitchen of our very small house has two sinks and tons of storage. Formica counters look good and are very functional. We used plain old SS surface mount sinks, culled from ebay for next to nothing. The appliances are basic, but work just fine. We saved lots of money by sourcing everything ourselves, if you have the time, and the contractor allows it. Bear in mind that this can be a lot of work! I found nearly everything cheaper on-line, including appliances.

    There are a lot of places folks spend a lot of money. Lighting can be fabulously expensive. I would guess that we spent less than $1000 on all of our lighting. We haven't spent anything at all on landscaping, but we are in a rural area in the woods. Because of our remote location and the way the house is sited, we have no window treatments other than a few cheap blinds in the master BR. There are a lot of things that most people can DIY, but be sure you have the time, aptitude, and equipment.

    mamacat21 thanked mushcreek
  • speaktodeek
    7 years ago

    I hate the idea of paying for something twice. In the case of paying for something mortgaged, you are ALREADY paying 2-3 times for it in interest over the life of the mortgage, and often people are ripping out perfectly good things that are technically not even yet paid for, to replace them with more things not paid for, in the name of style.

    That said, things do wear out, and financial situations change, as do family situations, so your question is very valid. Children only have ONE childhood. What they want is a happy childhood, not necessarily a luxurious one.

    I would look for two things: things that can be "set up" now and enhanced later (i.e. finish trims, etc.) and things that will likely age out or wear out, especially with young children and the mess of getting a new home built with new yard, etc. (carpeting or flooring in some areas of the home - think koolaid stains and new yard grit and pet accidents, and the freedom of ripping out inexpensive flooring in ten years when the kids are older and you can do nicer floors and the initial floors need to be replaced ANYWAY due to honest family wear.) Other things that can be planned now and embellished later are some sorts of exterior things such as decks, porches, trim packages, etc.

    If you plan flexibility into your spaces - for example, we have a utility bathroom with utility sink and walk in fiberglass shower and toilet, between our mud room and office. However, the bathroom opens to the office (it also opens to the mud room, and one of these could be sealed and made wall) and is sized for easy conversion to a main floor master/guest/invalid suite if ever need be. The key here is the plumbing is in place, the office has closet space and access to the bathroom. Stuff like that.

    Do keep in mind that, in ten years, when you think you might be doing upgrades, you may be in an entirely different mindset, thinking instead of financing four children's education instead of home fashion. It's always a balance, over time.

    mamacat21 thanked speaktodeek
  • Ichabod Crane
    7 years ago

    I completely agree with edlincoln.

  • omelet
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    We are in the early stages of a lake house build and went through a similar thought process because we wanted to focus our resources on what mattered to us. Cabinetry and flooring are probably the easiest areas to achieve savings, but the small things add up too.

    -- Cabinetry: we changed builders and are not going with IKEA, but we researched them extensively and absolutely support IKEA not only for kitchen but also for the bath (including their vanity units that come with the sinks). However, I recommend seeing IKEA items in person (even if it means a long drive) before choosing, pictures don't tell the story accurately.

    -- Flooring: Carpet is a cost saver over hardwood, and closed loop carpet will look good for a long time. I love hardwood and prefer it, but there's no doubt you can save money with carpet in appropriate places. Don't rule out sheet vinyl for baths, especially the upstairs baths.

    -- Fiberglass bath and shower enclosures versus tile - the one piece units that go in during framing are so easy to keep clean, too.

    -- Agree also with lighting - place a fixture where you'll want one, but buy fixtures that are practical and effective not costly.

    -- I also agree with laminate countertops, a basic stainless kitchen sink,and basic quality faucets and bath hardware. (If you go with and induction range, you may need to replace your cookware.)

    -- I do like the idea of planting trees now.

    ETA: Standard builder mirrors in the baths, and little or no closet shelving installed by the builder (install your own)

    Good luck with your build!

  • artemis_ma
    7 years ago

    cpartist, what's wrong with hollow core interior doors?

    I have them and they are lightweight enough if a door ever needs replacing (which they haven't for 20+ years, I might conceivably even be able to do it myself. On the other hand, I had to get someone to help me replace my standard sized solid front door a few years back -- I couldn't do a thing with it myself, including move it so as not to kill the grass underneath where we set it so that the trash people could pick it up.

    I think it a capital way for this family not to spend the money right now.


  • Meris
    7 years ago

    In my last house, we built and I did cheaper finishes in my kitchen, low end cabinets, formica counters. this was 11 years ago. We planned on living there until our kids were out of school (another 18 years).

    Well, obviously, something unplanned occurred and we moved, and we are remodeling/building our new home now. I would've sworn we never would move if you asked me before.

    It was getting to be time for me to re-do my kitchen, and hen we had to put it on the market. Not good. Only criticism we got was the kitchen, it looked ok, but everyone wanted granite counters, etc. Made us lose buyers and money.

    This time I'm putting in stone, and got cabinets I love. And honestly, the cost of the kitchen stuff wasn't too bad. I found a reputable local cabinet maker, had my plan checked out here but all the fabulous people, and the cost wasn't as bad as I thought. (It ended up being not much more than the low end cabinets with cheap feeling boxes, maple veneer, low end granite, and I got a stylish kitchen , reveal coming soon, that looks sooooo much better, and it will last longer.) There's something about having these counter tops and knowing they are here to stay.

    My advice, make sure you check out the other cabinet options as well.

    Maybe simplify your idea of the kitchen? Compromise on having painted cabinets, and get a nicely priced wood with simple door? Don't put in an island now, but repurpose a table or something else for now that could be built later. Maybe use Ikea in your bathrooms to save money on expensive vanities.

    You know what your doing. Just do your homework before you decide. You might be surprised.


  • artemis_ma
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    In my case, I do own the land outright, and I own my current home free and clear. I'm also not putting in everything immediately -- the wood burning stove has a place for it, but it won't go in until I sell my current home. I'm putting in forced air ducts for heating -- because I'm planning on geothermal when i can (it means this summer will be horridly HOT there, since I'm going to be relying on it for A/C). I'm minimizing the landscaping and waiting on putting in the greenhouse. We will grade the yard -- and since I'm going to bring up all the cannas bulbs and callas lilies from my current home, that relatively-small area of landscaping will have to be done by May.

    I'm not replacing furniture and will wait to re-cover the sofa (which WILL clash, but so be it).

    Don't skimp on hallway width -- you never know if someone, even if temporarily, will need a wheelchair (broken ankle here this past fall...) Besides, room and hallway dimensions are more pricy to change later on.

    The IKEA suggestions are great. Door knobs, cabinet pulls and handles can always be upgraded later -- just make sure your exterior door hardware makes it hard(er) for break-ins.

    While I am still going with quartz in the kitchen, I've downgraded my ambitions to perfectly wonderful Corian or Formica in the bathrooms -- just get the formica without those ugly seams. Dishwasher: I'd just get the basic, and besides if it breaks down, manual dishwashing is still a do-er. I am splurging on Induction -- which I found on sale -- and for the fridge, find the size that works for your family, but avoid the bells and whistles. (I really CAN get water to drink from my sink! I'll probably want to, as my glasses will be closer to the sink!)

    I'm also not tiling my backsplash -- semi-gloss paint will work fine for clean-up purposes until you put the tile in. (Honestly, in my case, there will be so much going on in the kitchen that I think it would be a distraction, and at any rate I've never lived in a home with a tiled kitchen backsplash, so it is probably likely I don't know what I'm missing...) You can save that idea for later.

    Go ahead and do a countertop MW. You can always hide it down the road.

    I am also re-purposing some old bookcases into my future closets for added shelving space -- I got closet design ideas from easyclosets.com online planner, but rather than spend that sort of money on the drawer and shelf systems -- I'm punting, and the builder will stick up rods -- I like that concept of double rods where one will be hanging tops and not full length dresses! if you are doing a fancy walk-in closet, you can always upgrade that later. (I'm not.)

    Shades or blinds: if you need them for privacy concerns, or to block too much sun, go with some inexpensive shades you can switch out later. Curtains tend to be pricey.

    I'm thinking of a future hot tub, but plan to put that outdoors when I get around to it. The chickens and the greenhouse will have to wait, too.

    mamacat21 thanked artemis_ma
  • paraveina
    7 years ago

    If you're in a climate where you'd like to have insulation & sheetrock in your garage, you can leave that for later (except the adjoining wall to your house, that will likely have to be done as per code). It'll just adjust to the outside temperature much more quickly than if you were to finish it.

    I don't see much difference between this and building a house and then renovating it later when your tastes change, other than the fact that would usually be 10 - 20 years later rather than 5. I also don't see much difference between this and saying "I'd like to build a house but I will be putting in laminate and carpet because we don't have expensive taste". My friend just had her house built and she choose laminate & vinyl flooring, laminate countertops, she did her own painting, and is working on the landscaping, fence & deck in her own time.

    And I completely understand wanting to leave money in investments for one reason or other - I know right now it would be smart to put no money down on a car for example, because of these 0% financing deals, than it would be to pull money out of an investment just for a down payment.

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  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    Out of curiosity, what points did you like?

    All your other points. :)

    The reason is hollow core doors are worthless for sound and one light punch and you need a new door. You don't need to buy wood doors, masonite for example makes solid wood doors, but it's not something to skimp on.

    Agree with you about the types of trees to plant, but feel that you can plant one or two new trees a year over a period of 4-5 years.

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  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    Don't get me wrong. I'm all for Ikea, less expensive door knobs, etc. My kitchen in my condo right now is in a well to do building and I found my kitchen knobs and handles at the Blue Box for under $3 each.

    My new home will have marble tile floors, from HD. I couldn't tell the difference between the $9.99 a sq marble at HD and the $75 a sq marble at the fancy store.

    Definitely shop around for everything.

    Question to mamacat. I know it seems like a long time for now, (although don't blink your eyes), but when your kids move out, what will you be doing with those upstairs rooms and that extra bathroom? I agree the bedrooms are necessary, but again I wonder about spending $10-$20k for an extra bathroom for the kids who if they don't have it, wouldn't even know the difference. You do have the two vanities, and if you build in lots of storage in the bathroom, I think the kids will be fine.

    I also agree with the person who said they don't like the idea of paying for it twice or 3x when you add in mortgage costs. Especially things like doors, windows, insulation, etc.

    Landscaping can be done over time. I've done that in two house and plan on doing that in my new build.

  • Katie S.
    7 years ago

    Mamacat, when we asked about deleting an upstairs kids bath in our home the builder told us it would only save 3-5 thousand (this is with vey simple finishes, vinyl, cultured marble, and molded shower/ tub combo). So before you go deleting things thinking you are saving tons of money, I would ask your builder what it is really saving.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    builder told us it would only save 3-5 thousand

    A thousand here and a thousand there, quickly adds up to many thousands. And we're talking about a second bathroom for the kids upstairs. You know I wonder how it is all of us survived growing up with only one bathroom to share.

    Regarding your original question now that I have a much better handle on what you're planning, here's my 2 cents.

    Much of the trim and finish carpentry, like columns,

    Yes.

    coffered ceiling,

    I'd be inclined to do it now as I believe it's not a one person handyman job

    built-in bookcases, benches, window seats.

    Yes

    I'm thinking go with a nice baseboard now

    Baseboard is fairly easy to do for anyone with some basic skills. Plus think of the kids rolling their toys into the baseboards.

    and leave off any crown

    I might do the crown now since it won't get beat up by the kids, and because of it being up high it probably is a two person job.

    and all of the special built-ins, wrap the columns in sheet rock.

    Yes

    Would a window seat be a reasonable thing to do later?

    Yes. In fact we are building a window seat in our upstairs guest/exercise room and I'm going to have our handy woman do it because she'll save us a bundle over the builder.

    ~Carpet or lower cost flooring in many areas.

    I'd look into Luxury Vinyl Tile for now. Lower cost, fairly soft underneath and easy to keep clean.

    How hard is it to upgrade to hardwood or engineered wood later?

    The biggest hassle will be moving everything out of the rooms. Site finished hardwood would be a big hassle, but prefinished or engineered, not so much.

    Will we have to remove the baseboards? (And if so, maybe we'd be better to go with something cheap there now as well.)

    See above. :)

    Can I buy this myself and give it to the contractor, or will they almost always have access to better pricing?

    It depends on the agreement you have with your builder. My builder tacks on a 20% fee on everything so while I'll shop myself, I think he probably can get better discounts. In fact there was one thing I was looking at, a sink I believe. I found it online for what I thought was a great price. Then the builder came back to me and even tacking on his 20% it was still cheaper than the online price. So if I bought it myself, I'd be paying a heck of a lot more.

    ~Laminate counters and cheaper hardware in kitchen. I think I would rather splurge on nice cabinets, but save money on the counters and pulls. Honestly, I think a lot of people want to upgrade their counters after 10 years or so anyway!

    See my post above about my "fancy" kitchen with the custom cabinets and the under $3 a pull each. And everyone thinks they are gorgeous pulls and knobs!

    As for laminate counters, you can sometimes find a level 1 granite for cheaper than laminate if you do your homework or if your builder can get you a special price. Or if not, there is absolutely nothing wrong with laminate!

    And for cabinets? I am a huge fan of Ikea as I said. They hold up well and in 10 years when the little ones are past the destructive phase, you can redo the kitchen if you're wanting to.

    ~Inexpensive plumbing fixtures

    Don't skimp on really inexpensive plumbing. You want the fixtures to have either brass or ceramic interior parts only, not plastic.

    Here's a great article about faucets: Faucet Article

    And here are faucet reviews: Faucet Reviews

    and light fixtures. Maybe even purchase them myself and give them to the contractor to install? That way I can buy clearance items.

    Absolutely!

    ~Stone around fireplace.

    Yes.


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  • cpartist
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Mamacat, your children may end up in the same town as you once they are grown, so you may not need to acommodate visitors like we do. But if your children do end up moving away, that extra bath upstairs will continue to serve a purpose when they come on home for visits. I just wish that more folks here would recognize that this is also a possibility.

    Yes it may be a possibility and it may not be one. But we can't build for the possible 20 years from now especially if it will save her a significant amount of money now. All the house molding and cheap carpeting will not equal up to what the cost of eliminating one bathroom will cost.

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  • betttyloo
    7 years ago

    But you have to remember Cpartist, that this bathroom will served a purpose now also, and in the coming years as her children grow. And while it is true that in an instant, it seems, the children are gone and the house is quiet, I just wanted to point out that that bathroom MAY still be a useful space. It is not a given that the bathroom will become a non-used area.

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  • Oaktown
    7 years ago

    Hi mamacat21, sounds to me like you are on the right track. You might have seen the hierarchy that often gets quoted:

    Site > Structure > Skin > Services > Space Plan > Stuff

    Generally makes sense to start cutting back from the "stuff" end where there typically is the shortest replacement cycle. Good luck!

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  • artemis_ma
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    For that second upstairs bath -- you can always have the room there, and merely just plumbed in until you can finish it. Use it for storage in the interim.

    I am having my walk out basement plumbed for a half bath (for cleanup after handling livestock without having to track stuff in to get to the regular bathrooms). Laying the water lines to the room and capping them isn't that expensive. Just make sure you know where all the lines are, in case you end up using a different builder/plumber down the road (photos help)! Since it will be at least a year before I can have chickens, and a couple more after that before I have goats and small sheep, I can wait before actually building that bath!

    (PS, you may need to check your zoning regs on this. It's easier in basements -- I'm having no problems with it.)

  • Lavender Lass
    7 years ago

    If it were me, I'd build a smaller home with a full basement....possibly walk out. Spend the money on the main floor and leave the basement unfinished except for future bathrooms plumbed in and electrical system large enough for future improvements.

    I would want one floor FINISHED, especially with small children. The dust and mess that future renovation will entail might be more trouble than you want to take on. But in the basement, you can close that area off (seal it with plastic) and hopefully access it from the outside.


    Just my two cents : )


  • Brian 's
    7 years ago

    My calls:

    Savings:

    1) The driveway, can be done later

    2) Vinyl siding ( some vinyl looks very decent today).

    3) HVAC (not worth paying premium to upgrade from 93.5->95->96% efficiency), neither is geothermal (can be installed later)

    4) Unfinished areas (non taxable until completed). So I would have a bit.

    5) upgraded light fixtures (they will be replaced by you long time prior to you paying off your mortgage)

    6) Upgraded faucets ( like [this ) [(https://www.houzz.com/products/moen-7590orb-aberdeen-one-handle-pulldown-kitchen-faucet-oil-rubbed-bronze-prvw-vr~9362430)takes less than 15 minutes to install.

    7) Showers (inside wall valve) can not be easily replaced, however if you get moen, koller you may be able to completely update the look with the trim kit. I would get a cheappy with the correct valve.

    8) linoleum in the bathrooms can be easily replaced with the tile.

    9) Lights,

    10) carpet

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    7 years ago

    Well, lots of interesting ideas here. I simply can't imagine anyone in this era living in the same house for the next 50 years. Life always gets in the way. Thus, I'd suggest do what you want to do for the next 5-10 years and re-evaluate after that. Life has so many unexpected and unexplained interventions. Good luck on your project!

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  • lolauren
    7 years ago

    betttyloo - my parents up-sized to a ridiculously large home, and I will be forever grateful. Like in your case, it gives the family a way to gather together easily. All the visiting grown kids w/ families can stay at once. (Even the locals end up staying. It's just easier.)



  • betttyloo
    7 years ago

    Thanks for letting us know this lolauren. While I know this plan might not work for many, it is good to hear from you that it does work for your family!


  • GreenDesigns
    7 years ago

    Just remember that all of this cost cutting will be reflected in the home's appraisal. And that's why a healthy contingency in reserve is needed. If your home doesn't appraise for what it costs you to build, what would you do then without more money to bring to the table?

    Also, if you are in a neighborhood where the homes are built with all of those things that you are cutting out, and life DOES happen, and you need to sell, how do you think the home will fare on the market?

    Im not trying to force you into spending more on things that you don't need. Just realize that cost cutting doesn't mean that the end project turns out all that less costly. But it will turn out less appealing for resale, and for you and your kids to live in. That can be hard to deal with in some neighborhoods. It has a different sort of cost to your family.

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  • Lisa G
    7 years ago

    Some areas we splurged were on high quality laminate flooring throughout the main floor ("standard" called for carpet in office, family room, formal dining, and sheet vinyl everywhere else) because it would be a nightmare to remove furniture later to upgrade the flooring. We also spent what we needed to in order to get the kitchen counters we wanted. We kept all of the bathrooms lower grade...sheet vinyl Floors, laminate counters (though we spent $100 extra to get the Formica 180FX nicer stuff), and fiberglass tub & shower. Bathrooms are much more manageable to upgrade later than whole house flooring. We will be installing our own window trim and will build our own window seats around the fireplace. We had them do the most basic gas fireplace and will tile/stone it ourselves and also build our own mantle. All lighting fixtures are builder grade but we had prewiring done for led undercab lighting which I will install. Doors are hollow core. We did add interior wall insulation around all bathrooms and laundry room for less sound transfer. We paid to only have a laundry sink preplumbed and will do it ourselves because it wasn't in our immediate budget to have cabinetry in there (I also did not like the sink or faucet they would have installed).

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  • freeoscar
    7 years ago

    I think you have it right in building the structure you want now, and going cheaper on the finishes. I consider things like coffered ceilings and built ins to be finishes which could definitely be added later - and they are expensive. Plus after living you may decide they aren't that important to you so won't end up putting them in. And while solid doors are good for areas where privacy/quiet are important (bedroom and bathroom doors), hollow core doors are perfectly fine for closets, laundry rooms, etc. I would definitely include the 2nd bathroom if that's what you want - it would be tough and much more expensive to do afterwards than now. You can always upgrade the finishes later on, but go basic for now - porcelain tile is both cheaper to purchase, and less labor intensive to install than stone.

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  • tcufrog
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Honestly, you can get more finishes than you think from the outset if you're willing to put in the time, creativity and legwork. Are you at all handy? We are far from DIY experts and did quite a bit in our first home including installing dentil crown in our living room, changing out lighting and ceiling fans, painting several rooms, painting the walls and floor of the garage and sealing the cracks, and installing beadboard and chair rails in two of the bedrooms. We also shortened some IKEA Billy bookcases so they fit perfectly on a wall in our sitting room. Everyone who saw them thought they were built-in. Just by doing those simple DIY projects ourselves we saved thousands of dollars.

    Become familiar with when different stores and websites have their major sales and buy things then in advance instead of waiting until you need them. A friend of mine has a master spreadsheet of everything she needs for her build along with dimensions, budget for each and photos of the look she's going for. She cleaned out her attic and garage to store her purchases. Each week she makes the rounds at the local ReStore, Sears Scratch and Dent and other places. She's gotten to know the salespeople so well that some of them will alert her when sales are about to occur or when something comes in that she might like. For example, when the annual Elfa sale occurred she ordered all of her pantry and master closet shelving because she had already designed them online. When IKEA had their kitchen sale she bought cabinets for her laundry room. She found the perfect sideboard to convert into a guest room vanity at a church rummage sale. She can barely still get her car in the garage but her builder is shocked by how much under her allowances she is so far even though she's thus far gotten everything she wanted.

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  • Dana S
    7 years ago

    Hi mamacat! We are in a similar situation as our income will be sharply increasing over the next 5 years (or at least I hope). We are in the middle of our build and I wish that I would have done a few things differently from the start. Please learn from my mistakes! BEFORE you choose a builder, be very specific about the areas that your would like to source yourself. For example, using Ikea bathroom vanities, etc. I have a wonderful builder but he wants me to use his suppliers and is not open to me sourcing things myself. So make sure that in your contract (this is very important) it is spelled out which things you will source. You can always use his suppliers if you change your mind.

    I feel like one area to not spend money on is the kids bathrooms and bedrooms. No one will go in them anyways and they are likely to be a mess. So throw Ikea vanities and laminate counter tops in there. Easy way to save money!

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  • mamacat21
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thank you so much for all the wonderful ideas and suggestions. You've all given me even more to consider, and that is so helpful. Several mentioned making sure the builder will allow us to source our own fixtures/finishes, and I will be absolutely certain we do just that. The driveway is another great suggestion. The HOA (which actually isn't terribly restrictive, compared to some) only allows paved, paver, or pea gravel for driveways (no dirt or crusher run.) I actually really like the look of pea gravel with a nice stone or paver border. Though we might skip the border for now!

  • Lisa G
    7 years ago

    Pea gravel for a driveway?? Pea gravel is comprised of tiny round stones and does not compact well to form a solid surface. It's like walking on a dry sandy beach vs wet sand. I would think twice about using pea gravel.

  • beckysharp Reinstate SW Unconditionally
    7 years ago

    I had original wanted hardwood in our new house, but after a few years of living with vinyl plank flooring (Trafficmaster Allure from Home Depot) for a few years after a kitchen reno, I changed my mind and we're going with luxury vinyl plank -- though a Karndean commercial version that it is harder to scratch. I like the price, water resistance, and minimal maintenance; upkeep is a dream and it was easy on the budget. And because we're having the same flooring/same pattern throughout the new house, the flooring store gave us a deal. We're also doing an Ikea kitchen, and Ikea vanities (the storage is hard to beat) in the bathrooms. We hope these all last as long as possible, with good care. We didn't buy any of these with the thought that they'd be temporary or with the plan of upgrading in 5-10 years.

    Which brings me to my main point. As a mother of three high schoolers, I can make one suggestion, which was passed on to me by mother and grandmother. Teach your kids from the start to respect your/their house and the furnishings. Kids aren't necessarily, and don't have to be, hard on finishes, furnitures, and fixtures. My husband is a builder, so my kids (who help out as school allows) have a better idea than most, perhaps, of what's involved -- time and money -- in fixing other people's carelessness. Simple and inexpensive finished, thoughtfully selected and well-tended, can last you a long time and you might even find you like them : ) .


  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    Can't wait to see your house. I think it will be super and I think you'll find you can do more than you originally thought.

  • debrak6
    7 years ago

    I am a bit taken aback by the presumption of people who answered your question about which features and finishes it makes sense to postpone for later by suggestions that you build a tiny house or all share one bathroom. Seriously? 3200 square feet is not a huge house, especially for the number of people in your family....I'm betting you will use and enjoy every square foot of it, even years from now when your kids are grown and out on their own. You'll enjoy it even more when it's comfortable for them all to come home to visit at the same time with their spouses or partners, and maybe their own kids! Is two bathrooms upstairs absolutely necessary? Of course not, if it's a matter of not being able to feed your family or fund your retirement...but this is obviously not the case here. I grew up in a house with five kids sharing a bathroom and we survived...but was it pleasant, convenient, or anything I would do again unless absolutely necessary? A resounding NO to all. Two bathrooms with multiple kids is not wasted space or money, and there are a lot of years of family living ahead of you. Years from now, they will also be used and appreciated when your kids come home to visit with those spouses, partners, and kids. Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on what things to postpone...get the land, house plan, and space you want...plain finishes and floor coverings and as you said countertops and plumbing fixtures can all be changed out later. How exciting that you found a lot you love in a good neighborhood (on water!) and can make it work now. Go for it!

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  • debrak6
    7 years ago

    Oh, by the way, pea gravel can make a very nice and attractive driveway and even walking paths...when they do it properly with a tamped and compacted underlayer such as decomposed granite and then a not-too-thick top layer of pea gravel, it becomes firm and doesn't shift around when driven or walked on.

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  • idnash
    7 years ago

    Lots of good advise so far. Here's mine, build well what you can't change later. Leave out the add ons. Built ins, crown moldings,tile work. As for your finishes, find what you love and then try to find it for less or something similar. Builders typically get a significant discount,your contract should state an allowance for items such as doorknobs,faucets,vanities etc. Make sure you have the right to purchase them where you choose and are credited if you spend less. You can then be directed to his source and compare prices. Good plumbing fixtures with brass fittings are an example. If you find a 350.00 faucet by Moen he probably can get 40% off.hence the faucet becomes 210.00 if he doesn't tack on a percentage. You can also find the faucet online for 30% off and no sales tax yourself. Or you can go to the big box stores and pay 139.00 for a cheap faucet. I personally would by the better and not have to change it later. I think it's important to have him give you a budget to cut rather then leave it to you. Lighting also. Builders want to use cheap stuff but you can find better quality for same amount. These things add up but its only nickel and dimes in the build. You should plumb for the tub but leave it out, maybe put a bench in its spot. The fire place is another big ticket item. Buy cheaper carpet for kids rooms, don't tile walls in baths.You already get the picture.Personally I'd build the square footage and paint the subfloor if I had to. Where there's a will there's a way. Good luck. PS I got my tub from vintage tubs online best price I found I've also used 1stop lighting and efaucets. And you must know a house will always be a work in progress.