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julesavl

3 weeks into my soapstone install and I am left scratching my head

9 years ago

I have scoured GardenWeb forums for a seriously unhealthy amount during my kitchen remodel - particularly for information about soapstone as it is fairly unusual. (Thank you for all of your posts)! So now that it is in, I could use a little help.I have two concerns. After the install I discovered some fissures. There is a lighting bolt of fissures about 18 inches in length or so (as well as smaller ones throughout the stone). I believe that they have been filled with epoxy. When I oil, it is dark and dull around the cracks. The same dullness appears around my seam, which makes me think it may be the epoxy residue? Anyone with fissures have sheen issues? Are fissures something that should be disclosed before a stone is purchased?

The second issue is a head scratcher. I don't really know if it is normal. After the installers did the first oiling, I started to notice that within about 3-4 hours, some areas were turning back to light gray. The areas got larger and the color transition was not gradual at all.


We don't live at the house, so after coming back after two weeks, I had expected the counters to have returned to a consistent gray. The stone was about half med/dark gray and half really light gray. I oiled it again. It seemed some parts stayed dark longer, but most of the light areas were starting to turn within about 4 or 5 hours, and the same large patches were there to greet me the next morning.


Is this normal? Do I have to reapply oil to the light places (even if it is within a day) whenever they lighten? I was under the impression that the oiled counter evaporated in a more consistent manner. Will they eventually reach the same consistent patina? I have also thought that perhaps the oil is soaking into the stone (maybe it is comprised of large section of a different and porous stone)? In which case, should that be disclosed as a defect or at least the resulting blotchy effect mentioned before purchase? The company offered to come back and re-sand and then recommended a stone enhancer to keep it a consistent dark color. This seems like a bandaid fix to a subpar stone, or am I being unreasonable? Has anyone used a stone enhancer before, and once it is used can you sand it off in the future? Thank you!

Comments (30)

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi there. I can tell you that soapstone is completely non-porous. My guess would be that they did not finish the surface well, all with the same grit, and that has led to the splotchy-ness. I would ask them to re-finish it, but I'd stay away from any sealers or enhancers. Good luck!

    julesavl thanked eam44
  • 9 years ago

    The fissures are unacceptable, if they were not pointed out to you beforehand.

    As to the finish, I'd say the stone was not sanded to the proper grit. I'm guessing this was not fabricated by a company that specializes in soapstone, like M. Teixeira, Dorado, or Green Mountain.

    There may be something else funky going on.

    If Florida Joshua is still around here, perhaps he'll advise...

    julesavl thanked darbuka
  • 9 years ago

    When I oil my soapstone, often it dries kinda blotchy (as in your photos) over the next week or so. Maybe longer. I've treated this as normal behavior since I purchased and installers were soapstone-only pros. Hope this helps.

    julesavl thanked Mags438
  • 9 years ago

    Ours doesn't have any fissures so I can't speak to that problem. If it is a true soapstone nothing is soaking in - including a stone enhancer which will sit on top and eventually wear off. I would agree that it may be the grit. Some of our samples were more highly polished and I didn't like them. The demo kitchen at M Tiexiera that we like best was finished with 80 grit so we did that and love the counters. Our gc and his fabricator were so uninformed about ss we had M Tiexiera fabricate. Fortunately we live close enough to them. I would find out if they filled fissures with epoxy and didn't disclose that to you though. So sorry you are going through this...

    julesavl thanked brdrl
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    With the right grit you can also try a different surface treatment.

    http://www.soapstones.com/2015/11/04/new-beeswax-mineral-oil-soapstone-treatment/"Adding beeswax to the mineral oil increases the staying power of the treatment by providing a stronger seal and a longer-lasting, subtle shine. This treatment will also help to lessen the time that new soapstone takes to darken to its aged glory."

    For the fissures I'd contact tech support at M. Teixeira for their evaluation.

    julesavl thanked dan1888
  • 9 years ago

    Thanks for all of the great feedback. I hadn't even thought that an uneven grit may be causing the blotchiness. But I do know he changed the sanding pad to different grades a couple of times throughout. For mags438, does your soapstone eventually settle on a fairly consistent shade? I was not informed of any fissures, but after I pointed them out, they said that they were filled with resin at the factory. Do most slabs have fissures and pits that are filled?

  • 9 years ago

    When we were finalizing the slab we wanted at M Teixeira a worker noticed what looked like fissures and then they would not sell us that slab. We selected a different one. Maybe it is just terminology but the "patina" is only vsible to me when they are not oiled at all. Freshly oiled (I use beeswax combo) makes them consistently dark for months. Have you tried stripping the oil completely off with a good dish detergent? I only oil mine because I prefer the dark contrast with our grey cabinets. If I had white or stained wood I would probably leave them natural. We do not get water marks or anything when they are not oiled and cleaning with rough side of sponge and Dawn removes grease splatters.

    julesavl thanked brdrl
  • PRO
    9 years ago

    "The fissures are unacceptable..."


    Sorry, but fissures are a very natural part of natural stone. You don't get to pick the attributes you like only. Don't like fissures? Get Corian. It never has any.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry, but your 'opinion' is not pertinent here. What is important is the standard level of quality acceptable within the industry. The suppliers of soapstone comprise that industry. We have heard examples about the practices of M. Teixeira as an example. If the other major suppliers follow the same level of quality then the standard will be established. Many of the characteristics of a natural product can vary to the point where no customer would be satisfied with its use for a specified purpose. Many of the billions+ pieces of rock on Earth are not usable as countertop. But some are because they meet specific criteria. They are, for those reasons, available in the marketplace and not sitting in a canyon somewhere. Sandstone for example.

    julesavl thanked dan1888
  • 9 years ago

    Well, I guess this is one of those things that I just have to let go by keeping things in perspective. I am fortunate I was able to remodel a kitchen in the first place and there are worse things in this world then blotchy soapstone. I just wish for being a research-aholic I had done a better job. Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    julesavl, I think you will be fine!

    I can't answer about the fissures as your photos are too blurry to help much. They don't look unusual or bad to me. However, YES--echoing what Mags said above, my soapstone (I've had it in three houses now) turns blotchy EXACTLY like your pictures when the oiling fades, perhaps 2-4 days after the oiling. The blotching will definitely be more noticeable the first couple times you oil it because you are moving from the natural very light gray state to something darker. I suggest you put a layer of oil on every week for a month or two and I think you will find that the color darkens and evens out to a beautiful sheen. But even after achieving that baseline color, my soapstone DOES fade unevenly and turn blotchy for a few days every time I re-oil it. That's just part of the routine.FYI, I have always just used mineral oil and lots of paper towels. I continue to re-oil about once a month because I like the dark green tones that come out when it is oiled. So before you panic or feel you've made the wrong choice, just work with it and your oil bottle and give us a report in a couple weeks.

    Someone mentioned Florida Josh above. He was a poster who installed soapstone who was often on these forums at one time. He went to the rescue of some posters whose soapstone had not been installed or honed correctly. I haven't seen him post in awhile. However, keep in mind that soapstone is renewable; meaning, if you are unhappy with how it was done you can try to see if there's another installer in your area who may be able to re-hone it. Where are you located? Perhaps look for another expert for an opinion. In my area there are at least half a dozen of respected stone yards that deal with soapstone and know what they are doing.

    I think you will be fine and will love your soapstone. I hope this helps.

    julesavl thanked Rudebekia
  • 9 years ago

    Thanks Cassandra, that is hopeful! Unfortunately my husband was transferred for work for 3 years, so I won't be able to be diligent with the oiling. I was considering just leaving it unoiled in the time we are gone. I am not confident tenants will oil it for us! Has anyone used acetone to return it to its unoiled state? Also, I had another thought-one of the guys who oiled my soapstone after the install twice poured denatured alcohol on the counter instead of oil (I guess they were both in the same spray bottle). Could that have effected how it is responding to the oil?

  • 9 years ago

    Plain dish soap and a rag will take the oil off. I would not use anything else. There should be no problem just leaving it unoiled but if you do also remember that it will then naturally darken in those areas of use; ie. around the stove. I don't like that look as oiling will darken the whole thing evenly and not leave darker areas. I had renters in my house once and gave strict instructions on how they were to use cutting boards etc so as NOT to scratch the soapstone. I would not have installed soapstone if I had three year tenants (!) but it sounds like this was a surprise move for you. I guess I'd still request that they understand the unique properties of the soapstone and take care of it. It is NOT granite or corian; it comes with its OWN care instructions. If you don't instruct them just prepare for scratches, dings, and blotchiness when you come back.

    julesavl thanked Rudebekia
  • 9 years ago

    Haha, well the news came in time for me to change my mind, and against my husband and real estate agent's advice I went with my dream stone anyway! This is karma for being argumentative and stubborn : )

  • 9 years ago

    ...although I did compromise a little and give up my Minas for a harder stone

  • PRO
    9 years ago

    dan1888:


    You are correct. My opinion from 30 years in the countertop business is not "pertinent" here, however, the opinion of the Marble Institute of America, the 70-year-old trade association of the natural stone industry, is. Page 8, please.

  • 9 years ago

    Sorry, but the general listing of using resin as an increasing practice intended to fill pits, cracks and fissures with a glossy resin to enhance the appearance of a polished slab applies to primarily polished slabs like marble, limestone, etc. not soapstone. Many granites, if generally available without fissures, would not be acceptable to consumers if a seller disclosed resin filled fissures in a particular slab. And that's what we have here. Not a delicate piece of Travertine. You are a valuable resource. If I asked you to help choose the best slab of soapstone possible for a project it would be because your experience would add to the probability this exact problem would be avoided. Would you want those fissures in your home given that soapstone is generally available without it. Just because some supplier offers a lower quality product doesn't mean you buy it, especially if the lower quality is known to the supplier but isn't disclosed to the customer.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    julesavl, can you feel the 'fissure'? Can you catch the edge with a fingernail? If so, I've read that it would be a crack, rather than a fissure--a fissure should be smooth, although if it's been filled with epoxy, then you might not be able to tell. I'm linking bayareafrancy's thread about a crack that wasn't noticed on install, but became worse with time.

    bayareafrancy's thread

    and her previous thread

    And another recent thread, where the homeowner had the slab replaced--this thread also references francy's soapstone.

    algaesea's soapstone thread

    When I was experimenting with some honed black marble tiles, I recall the areas around the cracks (not fissures) becoming duller, quicker, as if the oil I used had been sucked in more quickly in those areas.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My soapstone supplier warned me that the slabs I wanted had some fissures which would need to be filled. I was okay with that. When it was installed, there was a giant crack in one piece where the stone had broken completely apart. My installer did not tell me about that and then tried to fob it off as a fissure. After quite a bit of run around and drama, they replaced it.

    I don't like oiling my soapstone. I like the grey color, but it does show a lot of splotching. When it's oiled, the fissures filled with black epoxy disappear into the darker color. But as the oil evaporates, you can see them again. My installer assumed, without asking, that I would oil the stone. He later lightened up some of the epoxy at my request.

    I'm getting darker areas around the stove and places where my husband prepares food. He drops a lot and doesn't clean up. It's surprising how much grease one little potato chip crumb contains. (I knew there was a reason they aren't good for me.)

    If I were to have renters with soapstone, I would be sure to tell them not to try to seal it and to pay attention to chipping it. I'd probably stress that it's going to look blotchy and to just live with it. As long as I know my counter is clean and not treated with chemicals I'd prefer to avoid, I can stand some splotches. I knew that when I chose soapstone.

    Out of curiosity, julesavl, where are you located? Your installation experience sounds a bit like mine. They specialize in soapstone, but the installer was so difficult I would never recommend them. I'm still not pleased with some of the epoxy-filled fissures. I think they'll hold up, and I did okay them, but there were more than I thought there'd be, and unoiled, they're obvious. I'm not sorry I chose soapstone, just sorry I went with the company I did.

    julesavl thanked algeasea
  • 9 years ago

    On page 8, is this what you are referring to or am I missing where it says the OP's fissure examples would be considered acceptable:

    "Repairing stone is
    permitted when the refurbished region is not
    in a structurally significant area of the
    countertop,
    and when it can be accomplished
    skillfully so that the repair is consistent in
    color and texture with the rest of the slab."



  • 9 years ago

    Sorry, I'm seeing this late. Cassandra and others have answered your questions. I am very very happy with my soapstone countertops. Anastacia is a harder one and even without a weekly oiling or anything to that extent, it quickly darkened from a bluish grey to a much darker look with green undertones. Without oiling, over time, there are areas that are a bit lighter than a nearby area, but not an issue in day to day living. When I want to 'dress up' the kitchen, I'll take a previously used cheesecloth that I use for oiling to wipe down all the counters. It blends/smooths out the countertop.

    Dawn, the blue one, will strip all the oil off. I use it around the stove area when needed.

    In terms of renters, just remember, the beauty of soapstone is that you can easily sand and buff out the countertops to rid the dings. My installer left me sandpaper at the grit used for my countertops. Enjoy your living stone.





    julesavl thanked Mags438
  • 9 years ago

    Creative soapstone is FL Joshua. He helped many people here. You could contact home to ask about the grit you should end up with. I know it isn't very high. It could be a slightly harder part in the stone with a finish to fine. Nice thing about soapstone you can work with it. Good luck.

    julesavl thanked eandhl2
  • 9 years ago

    algeasea - I will private message you the company I dealt with. Overall they were very nice people and accommodating to my timeline, so I don't want to talk badly about them on the internet. My intention of the post was really to get some answers!

  • PRO
    9 years ago

    snookums2:


    "Fissures occur naturally in many stone
    types. A fissure is defined by the American
    Geological Institute as “an extensive crack,
    break, or fracture in the rock, which may
    contain mineral-bearing material.” The term
    “fissure” is used commercially in the stone
    industry to describe a visible separation along
    intercrystalline boundaries or the voids between
    mineral crystals. This separation may start and stop within the field of the stone or
    extend through an edge. A fissure differs
    from a crack in that it is a naturally occurring
    feature in the stone."


    I agree with the MIA, Dan1888 does not.

  • 9 years ago

    However, the MIA also states:

    ""Repairing stone is permitted when the refurbished region is not in a structurally significant area of the countertop, and when it can be accomplished skillfully so that the repair is consistent in color and texture with the rest of the slab."

    OP's stone:

  • PRO
    9 years ago

    snookums2:


    Yes, that's repairs for stone that was damaged, not stone that came out of the ground with natural fissures.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The entire section from MIA Page 8 linked above:

    14. ALLOWABLE REPAIR

    Stone countertops in need of repair require
    competent, experienced artisans to achieve
    the desired results. Repairing stone is
    permitted when the refurbished region is not
    in a structurally significant area of the
    countertop, and when it can be accomplished
    skillfully so that the repair is consistent in
    color and texture with the rest of the slab.

    Fissures occur naturally in many stone
    types. A fissure is defined by the American
    Geological Institute as “an extensive crack,
    break, or fracture in the rock, which may
    contain mineral-bearing material.” The term
    “fissure” is used commercially in the stone
    industry to describe a visible separation along
    intercrystalline boundaries or the voids between
    mineral crystals. This separation may start and stop within the field of the stone or
    extend through an edge. A fissure differs
    from a crack in that it is a naturally occurring
    feature in the stone.

    Cracks occur in stones as a result of
    mechanically induced stresses during
    handling, fabrication, transport, or
    installation. When cracks are detected in slab
    material prior to fabrication, the best method
    is to simply avoid them during the layout
    process. In stones with lesser soundness
    properties, this option may not be practical,
    or possible. When working with such stones
    it is common practice to repair cracks by
    cementing them together with epoxy or
    polyester resin, either with or without dowel
    reinforcement. Cracks that occur as a result
    of handling-induced stresses are often more
    difficult to repair, as they commonly include
    chipping in addition to the crack. Repair is
    frequently performed by injection of a
    penetrating resin adhesive, which may be
    dyed to match the stone, and then rebuffing
    the area after curing of the resin. In many
    cases, the entire stone must be repolished to
    make the repair unnoticeable. If the repair is
    attempted but unsuccessful,

    Chips can occur in stones either as a result
    of sawing operations or handling and restraint
    devices. Particularly in the igneous stone
    varieties, the exiting portion of the diamond
    blade will create many small chips. A small
    chamfer, called an arris, of approximately
    1/16" x 1/16" (1.5 x 1.5 mm) can be used
    to eliminate most of these small chips. The
    use of an arris will make the seam appear
    wider than its actual dimension when filled.
    Larger chips may be repaired with epoxy or
    polyester resin if the completed repair is
    consistent in color and texture with
    unrepaired areas of the slab. In many
    materials, the resin used in the repair will
    appear more natural if it is not dyed.

    Pitting of the countertop surface,
    particularly in granite material, is a
    commonly seen characteristic on natural
    stone. Granites are made up of several
    different minerals, each mineral having a
    different hardness. Granites contain quartz,
    feldspars, biotite, amphibole, ferrous
    titanium oxides, and other mineral
    combinations. On the Mohs Scale (see insert
    on page 7), diamonds are the hardest
    mineral, with a rating of 10. Quartz and
    feldspar have a hardness of 6.5 to 7 and are
    very durable. Biotite (also known as mica) on
    the other hand is very soft (2.5) and flakes
    easily. All true granites have biotite in their
    composition. Because biotite is relatively soft
    and flaky, the first few layers are removed
    during the polishing process, causing pits
    throughout the slab. Some granites have
    more biotite throughout their composition
    than others. The higher the biotite content of
    the stone, the more pits it will have. Most
    polished igneous rocks will have varying
    degrees of pits, depending on the amount of
    biotite, muscovite, and phlogopite in their
    composition.
    The pits do not make the granite less durable
    or otherwise inferior, and do not in
    themselves qualify the slab for replacement.
    Pits are common in all granites and should be
    expected when dealing with a natural,
    polished stone containing several types of
    minerals of varying hardness. It is usually best
    to not attempt repair of pits, as most repair
    techniques will not cosmetically improve the
    countertop.

  • 9 years ago

    Did anyone ever come look at your countertops and what did they say?

  • 9 years ago

    Virginia Lynn, thanks for your continued interest in my predicament! My husband and I have moved and won't be back for around three years. We plan on evaluating the condition of the soapstone when we return. I left my renters instructions for oiling it if they would like, but warned it would likely remain blotchy. If it is in bad shape, we'll have them sanded down, and hope it was a grit issue etc. and if so, get the evened oiled look we wanted, or just let them go natural if it still doesn't work. That being said, if anyone can recommend a professional in the southern Ohio region to sand/refinish them when we move back, I would appreciate it!