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My Roses in Burning Heat...... Zone 9b

Temps in Islamabad during the past 20 days or so have ranged between 101 to 115*F the maximum and 72 to 84*F the minimum. However, it has been raining regularly after every 5-6 days at an average which brings the temp down on next day. On occasions, it has been a strong hailstorm or windstorm that devastates the bushes.

I am happy to see the growth of my rose bushes has not been affected much this year despite high heat. I don't use any kind of synthetic pesticide or fungicide ever and I am now very careful in spraying any organic pesticide too. I have been working on my soil since the last two years and now the top 4-5 inch layer is full of organic matter and worms. Lot of life. I have been regularly feeding my roses with the homemade compost that is rich in K, Ca, Mg and contains enough N, P, Zn, Fe and other trace elements. I am keeping the ratio of Phosphorus the lowest and nitrogen is just enough. This compost has worked very well for me and I haven't used any after market fertilizer since almost a year (even an organic one). With zero expenditure on fertilizers and pesticides, my roses are the healthiest ever. Earlier, I used to spend a lot on buying all kind of pesticides (organic) and fertilizers and still used to have lot of problems. My roses greatly improved ever since I stopped using synthetic fertilizers last year and shifted to homemade compost.

However, in hot weather, the size of bloom of most roses reduces, in certain cases drastically. The fragrance also reduces a great deal and some of the very fragrant roses almost become non-fragrant.

The purpose of this thread is to share the pics of my roses grown 100% organically in a hot climate where temps reach upto 116*F and to see the effect of such high heat on various rose cultivars. Some of the roses have performed well and some have not. I hope this thread will help identifying better performers in high heat.

best regards

Comments (143)

  • jessjennings0 zone 10b

    thank you Straw I appreciate these names of heat resistant roses so much...

    I gave Pat away after she still scorched after placed in an area with at the most 30 minutes (morning) sun...

    I wonder why we can't so many of these roses over here?

    I also read that Alec's Red is strong in heat as well as Firefighter - I think you mentioned that? and also Don Juan the climber?

    I have a huge need for more color in my garden.

    I think a thread with a list of only heat resistant roses would be such a great idea...as Khalid suggested.

  • strawchicago

    Jess: Val in hot & humid & sandy soil Florida gave a fantastic list of roses which can take extreme heat and drought. Val's temp in Newberry, FL is 83 or 28 C now, while my temp. is 69 F, or 20 C. That's early cool morning temp, which will shoot up later.

    I did check Rose forum for heat-tolerant roses, but folks there gave wrong choices (esp. if they have soaking wet clay or grafted roses). If roses are grafted on Dr. Huey, that don't count .. Dr. Huey-rootstock can take heat and drought well.

    To be truly heat-tolerant, it has to be drought-tolerant as well, and Val's list of hot and sandy soil OWN-ROOT roses best qualify. Buck roses are special since they can handle my extreme cold weather and heat-tolerant for Val's hot & sandy soil.

    The best looking roses at Chicago Botanical Garden (CBG) of 5,000 roses are NOT Austin roses, nor Old Garden Roses, nor French Meilland roses. The best ones at CBG are Buck roses: Hi Neighbor and Distant Drum .. both survived winter well. Second best is "Singing in the rain" with thick petals. Third best is Austin rose The Dark Lady, which did well for Khalid's hot summer.

    I visited Cantigny Park of 1,200 roses at 100 F heat or 37 C, and Floribundas like Cherry Parfait, Julia Child, Singing in the Rain, Gene Boerner (thornless) were blooming and blooms looked great in full-sun.

    Austin roses are water-hogs, except for Eglantyne (has Rugosa heritage, thus can handle drought with outstanding fragrance). The Dark Lady also has Rugosa heritage, according to Austin catalog. Both of these Austins need shade since their petals are softer.

    http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3959128/roses-on-clay-vs-sand-in-hot-climates-and-cold-climates?n=30

    Valrose FL Zone 8b

    All my rose roses are own root except 2 that I received as presents. I try to avoid roses that are still under patent. Top Performers for me are

    1. Any tea rose, my top favorites are Mrs B.R. Cant, Mrs. Dudley Cross and Rosette Delizy
    2. Most China roses, I like Louis Phillipe and Mutablilis the best
    3. Most Noisettes I like Lamarque, Reve d'Or, Crepuscule, Champney's Pink Cluster
    4. Hybrid Musk Rose: Most do well Gartendirektor Otto Linne, Buff Beauty, Prosperity, Mozart are favorites
    5. Polyanthas: These two do well: Pink Pet, Perle d'Or and Cecil Brunner Spray
    6. Belinda's Dream
    7. Buck roses are still being trialed but I like Polonaise, Quietness, Aunt Honey, Earth Song and American Legacy
    8. Many Kordes, both old and new Lions Fairy Tale, Rosarium Uetersen, Shreveport, Westerland
    9. Some odd and sundries: Elina, Marco Polo, Birthday Girl, Lafter, Fields of the Woods, Mystic Beauty
    10. My best for scents are Heritage, Clotilde Soupert ( though she tends to ball), Comte de Chambord, Valrose FL Zone 8b
  • strawchicago

    To find heat-tolerant roses, click on Advanced Search in HMF, then click on Growing conditions, then click on heat-tolerant box. It will bring up 40 pages of heat-tolerant roses, skip the 1st 4 pages of newly bred-roses, and look through pages 5 to 40, Darlow's Enigma (hybrid musk), Dame de Coeur (very disease-resistant, fragrant hybrid tea) are few choices.

    After that I clicked Advanced Search, Growing conditions, and clicked on "drought-tolerant" box .. the list is much shorter, only 28 pages: lots of Rugosa, hybrid musk, moss rose, gallica, China like Archiduc Charles, Centifolia rose Bishop, Cemetery Rose, Hybrid Wichurana like Dr. Huey rootstock.

    Knock-outs are on the list of drought-tolerant roses, but I disagree, Knock-out can't even handle my cold zone, and blooms only when there's tons of rain.

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked strawchicago
  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)

    Jess: Opening a thread for heat tolerant roses is a very good idea and I will do that. However, I am still in the process of observing my roses for their performance in extreme heat.

    Straw: Thanks for pointing out the list at HMF but now I try to avoid such list (I am not if it is a right thing to do). The reason is the frustration that I encounter after going through such lists because 8 or may be 9 and at times, 10 out of 10 roses mentioned in that list will not be available to me locally and that's very frustrating.

    Few more points:

    1. Heat tolerance criteria differ. What is considered heat (100*F) is considered a pleasant weather for roses in my climate. It is when the temps cross 105 and touch 110 when the roses are tested. Any thing between 110 to 115 is very hot. And then we are talking of two months of such weather when the temps in my area stay around or over 105*F.
    2. Many roses grow well even at 110*F if kept moist. ie, foliage is healthy and fresh and buds keep forming. It is the blooming that is effected. Blooms are small, miserable looking, fry out quickly and lose their fragrance.
    3. I would differentiate between heat tolerance and drought tolerance. The aspect of drought tolerance is not generally applicable in very high temps. ie, A rose that might survive 20 days without water in normal temps may not survive even few hours when the temp crosses 110*F if the soil is dry. If in full sun it will just burn and suffer a heat stroke if the soil is not fully moist at that time. Wind at 110*F is a burning hot wind and it dries everything quickly. Even human beings need to protect themselves from such high heat and take lot of water lest they suffer a heat stroke.

    With watering every day in a humus rich soil and with perhaps extra calcium and potassium in my compost, most of my roses are growing well as their are fresh leaves and shoots sprouting all the time. Most of them are blooming too but have small, ugly looking insignificant blooms. My standard of heat tolerance will be met by those roses that keep blooming with reasonable size blooms (may be 60 to 70% of their size of springs), have a bloom life of at least one full day (blooms shouldn't fry out in few hours) and should retain at least 30 to 40% of the fragrance that they had in springs. And that is the kind of roses that I am looking for.

    Now, the next qualifying criterion would be the above performance in full sun and in part shade. I know there will be very few that will meet the above criteria in full sun but there would be many that would meet this criteria if planted in part shade. Hopefully I will be able to form a list of such roses by mid Jul.

    best regards

  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)

    Few pics today....

    Haifz Zaman bush is very healthy. Bloom size is getting better and fragrance is also improving. May be now the roses have started acclimatizing with high heat...
    Evelyn May has very few buds. Bloom size was around 2.5 inches which half of the size in spring. Fragrance is nice in morning. Blooms fry out by mid day.

    Seems to be suffering with iron deficiency. Small blooms with just a hint of fragrance.

    Fragrance was quite good today.

    Shade seems to be getting deeper. Let see when it opens up.

    Bloom size is getting better and bush is healthy. Just a hint of fragrance.

    Many small size blooms with mild but very nice fragrance. Seems to be doing well. The bush is in a pot and gets 6 hours sun up to mid day.

    Fresh blooms on McCartney. Mild fragrance.

  • jessjennings0 zone 10b

    thank you so much for this Straw


    I'm wondering if many of these roses go under another name, like Firefighter is Red&Fragrant over here...because there are so few on the list available here...


    I will see what I can find in HMF thank you...

  • raingreen

    Straw, at your awesome comment: "To be truly heat-tolerant, it has to be drought-tolerant as well" I gave a cry of approval!!!

    Another comment by Straw on the thread she referenced above: "Khalid: I'm very impressed with Belinda Dream's drought-tolerance. At Menards they have an indoor bin of bare-root roses, wrapped in plastic. All of them are dried-out canes, except for Belinda Dream, sprouting healthy leaves and green canes .. that's after many months of indoor storage at local store. (http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3959128/roses-on-clay-vs-sand-in-hot-climates-and-cold-climates?n=30)"


    Heat and desiccation go together in some areas. And when plants experience both at the same time, effects are more severe. I was confused by posters from Texas recommending 'Heritage' as an excellent performer, when in my area it shows heat damage (small flowers and heat necrosis during hot spells). Looking at the actual weather data it made more sense, with dewpoints in my area lower during summer heat than in places like Dallas. My guess would be that 'Heritage' did experience some heat damage in TX but effects were ameliorated by moist air.







  • raingreen

    Sorry, cross-posted with Khalid. Yes, it's true...roses in 110 F are not going to be drought resistant. I was referring to occasional hot spells rather than consistent temps, which I guess wouldn't apply to Khalid!!

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked raingreen
  • raingreen

    Altho...everything is relative. The roses that Straw was mentioning would show LESS need for water than the run of the mill, EVEN in the hottest climates.....and because we should all be conserving water, those roses need to be found.

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked raingreen
  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)

    Few pics taken today....

    The right bloom is three days old and still holding on in this scorching hear (103 to 106*F in last three days). I am impressed with the bloom life of Frederic Mistral in high heat.

    Glamis Castle has a cream center today. I am astonished with the quality of this rose that it has a mild fragrance in the morning but as the day goes on and temp increases, so does the fragrance of Glamis Castle. This is opposite to how other roses behave..... Has anyone else experienced this? Straw, Sam, Jess, Valrose, Carol??

    Hafiz Zaman is turning out to be such a nice rose. Look at this young bush that was planted on 26 Jan this year and despite high heat since past more than a month, is doing so well. So many buds.....

    Oklahoma bush has started picking up well. Blooms are bigger and fragrance is improving. I am fascinated. Planted on 26 Jan this year (along with so many other roses).

    Nice bloom on PAOK today morning with mild fragrance. The bloom fried out badly by midday.

    Papa Meilland also had a nice fragrance in the morning but nothing during day...

    Blooming freely but very less scent and bloom fry out quickly. Red colour is more dominant nowadays. In cooler months, white is more dominant.


  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)
    First bloom on Spirit of Freedom after it was planted on 26 Jan (last one to bloom out of the whole lot of 47 roses). No noticeable fragrance but will see it tomorrow morning when it is fully open

    The shade is much darker now. It was deep fuchsia pink in spring, this bloom is deep red. Nice fragrance.

    McCartney doesn't seem to be much affected from heat. Fragrance is quite low though.

    Most fragrant bloom today. Lasted whole day and didn't fry out.

    Small blooms. Fragrance is mild but very nice

    Many fresh blooms on Julia Child look like this.... was given spinach shake today.

    Mary Rose hasn't been bloom much since it became hot. Moderate scent

  • strawchicago

    Khalid: Love the ruffles on Julia Child .. spinach shake is good stuff .. instant magnesium & vitamins.

    Spirit of Freedom has zero scent at the rose park, the Dark Lady smelled the best among Austin at the rose park.

    Agree with you on the scents and temp. Some roses smell best at high temp., such as Double-Delight (smelled nothing at cold temp). Chrysler Imperial is another one that smells best at hot temp.

    In contrast, some roses smell best at cool temp, such as Wise Portia, which loses its scent when the temp goes up. Also high in minerals help with the scent. Cantigny rose park is alkaline clay like mine, plus they use high-phosphorus fertilizer, so the scent is very good.

    But Chicago Botanical Garden (CBG) has loamy soil (less solid minerals) so their roses don't have much scent, except for Betty White, which is very good in picking up minerals for her firm petals and large & glossy leaves. The Dark Lady smells good at CBG since its Rugosa heritage enable it to thrive in loamy/sandy soil.

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked strawchicago
  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)

    Today's photos.....

    Third bloom on Spirit of Freedom.
    This was exquisite. The top left bloom in first photo (bottom right in second photo) is in second day. Nice fruity honey mix fragrance.

    Same cluster on second day. The top bloom is in third day. Good bloom life in high temps. I am impressed but overall, Gold Medal has been a slow grower for me. May be I need to change the soil????

    Small size almost non-fragrant blooms on Condesa de Sastago

    Better shade and fragrance on Bronze Star

    Frederic Mistral is doing well, nice fragrance and good bloom life. The top bloom is in third day.

    Look how this small bush is performing in high heat.... .full of blooms. Fragrance gets better when the temps rise and this is a unique trait this rose is showing.




  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)
    Paul Neyron on 1st day. Fairly strong fragrance, size is around 3.75".

    Same bloom on second day. Isn't it a great performance in 104*F?

    Good size, nice fragrance. Blooms last whole day.

    Tiny bush that didn't grow well from Feb to May is doing well now and growing at top speed. Sam, Straw and Jess, have a look at rose biome (formerly "rose pit"). My endeavour is to fill this biome with dry leaves and organic matter before the start of monsoon and I intend doing it with all biomes that are below the lawn level. What say?



  • aztcqn

    I enjoy reading your notes on growing your roses. Here in California we have excessive heat warnings in effect, today. My roses are as you describe, small flowers and below par growth even with regular watering. I'm experimenting with sulphate of potash and ash plus blood and bone at different times. I think maybe too much stuff for pots so only water for now. But, the rust has stopped and looking to see if the PM does, too.

    Lots of lovely blooms in your thread.

  • strawchicago

    Hi Aztcqn: I'm glad to hear that your rust stopped.

    I have high heat this week at 90 F, or 32 C. So glad that my roses are in partial shade. Blue girl is blooming in less than 3 hours of sun. Smells divine.

    I didn't put gypsum in the planting hole of Yves Seedling and pay for it dearly. After 3 years of extremely alkaline tap-water, the soil becomes rock-hard. I dug it up, to break up my clay with gypsum and coarse sand.

    Yves didn't like the transplant in the heat, so leaves all wilted. I put Yves in fluffy potting soil & partial shade to recuperate.

    Soluble fertilizer does wonder for roses in heat & dry. There's not enough rain water to break down the minerals, so roses are starving in the heat, both for water and for nutrients. I love making "sour" alfalfa tea in a large 32-garbage can, roses love that drink in hot weather. Plants like the "used lemon" water I gave. My snapdragons are blooming twice more with the lemon-water.

    Plants are like humans .. in hot & dry weather I don't like to drink my tap-water at pH near 9 .. taste icky like baking soda !! But I guzzle tons of lemonade for vitamin C in the summer, very refreshing .. I threw the used lemon in a bucket to lower the pH down to rain-water, and water plants with that.

  • aztcqn

    Hhhm, yes, you mentioned the different routine for hot dry weather and water leaching out nutrients. while keeping plants hydrated. I have rain water I can use on the roses every other watering.

  • jessjennings0 zone 10b

    Khalid your roses are as always my favorite treat and I wish I had time sooner to look at the new photo's...they are magnificent and are doing so well in that heat.

    the thread with heat resistant roses is such an excellent idea..

    and guess what - most of these everyone mentioned aren't available over here...

    Khalid you asked:

    Sam, Straw and Jess, have a look at rose biome (formerly "rose pit"). My endeavour is to fill this biome with dry leaves and organic matter before the start of monsoon and I intend doing it with all biomes that are below the lawn level. What say?

    my first concern, having a lot around myself, are termites. they would love a lot of leaves and logs to chomp on...but I haven't used Neem oil and I believe that is very effective...I hope your termites are past tense already.

    But the second concern is Nitrogen shock... I've been over zealous in my previous garden with only sandy soil, and added tonnes of beautiful leaves. then came a huge gray cloud via a volcano that popped in South America and dumped that with a good shower on the whole area where I was staying and that I guess, along with the acid created by the decomposition of the organic matter, acidified (and perhaps even heated the soil???) the soil and created a Nitrogen shock. and everything nearly died.

    Well matured compost is the best way to go..

    what do you think, Straw, Sam, Khalid?


    ps - I like the word: rose biome - it describes good living soil especially created for roses so well.

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked jessjennings0 zone 10b
  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)

    Jess: I am particularly careful about not adding the twigs / branches to the rose biomes as they might attract termite. But do the decomposing leaves also attract termite? I haven't seen it but not sure....

    The 3 inch layer of dry leaves that I added in Jan this year is already decomposed and become part of top soil. Seeing this, I keep adding dry / fallen leaves after wind storms etc and during hot summers, they decompose quickly on surface. Regarding nitrogen shock, if I understand correctly, it occurred in your area after that acid rain mixed with volcanic ash. Is that right?

    best regards

  • strawchicago

    Khalid: Just saw your pic. of Paul Neyron .. fantastic color and bloom !! I like your Just Joey's yellow color .. Jess' Just Joey is so perfect .. mine is a tiny-grafted-on-Dr.Huey.

    Jess: thanks for sharing " along with the acid created by the decomposition of the organic matter, acidified (and perhaps even heated the soil???) the soil and created a Nitrogen shock. and everything nearly died." Agree to that, my roses looked lousy when I stuff half-decomposed leaves, alfalfa hay, or grass clippings in the planting hole.

    Tomato like that grass clipping mixed in, but tomato like it hot .. people even put black plastic around tomato to heat up the soil. Roses like cooler roots, and decomposing organic matter gives off too much heat. I killed my $35 peony when I mixed alfalfa meal in planting hole .. that cooked the peony to death when it decomposed in hot summer. Peony likes it alkaline and cool.

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked strawchicago
  • jessjennings0 zone 10b

    A thin layer of leaves is great as mulch, but I agree with Straw... I always overdo it you see.... I added way too much and no air or water could get through either....


    I am now preparing holes (with the help of my gardener), with leaves added which I hope will decompose over winter to be ready for planting in spring-summer. I will add a small amount of compost activator-fungi to each hole...

    The compost will be for the roses...



  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)

    Jess: I keep adding leaves all the time in my rose biomes and they keep decomposing. There are always few of them on top, though. I think leaves do not stop water and air to go through, unless there is a thick layer of them and one just leaves them like this. I do regualr tilling and that helps.

    Few pics taken today.

    Petals are fewer but very nice fragrance early morning..

    Blooms are a bit deshaped nowadays but I know this rose will be right back next month. Moderate fragrance nowadays.

    Perhaps the best performing rose in my garden at the moment. I think being locally bred, it shows better resistance against heat. Doesn't seem to be affected at all. Can you imagine this bush was planted on 26 Jan this year!!

    Best fragrance nowadays

    Nice fragrance.

    First bloom on a cutting. Perfection...
    Blooms fry out in 3-4 hours.

  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)
    Best performing Austin rose in my garden nowadays. Bush is in full sun.

    The Dark Lady is doing well too.

    Blooms on a fresh cutting...


    What would you say about this. So many blooms in such high temp... McCartney is an outstanding rose. Jess, I strongly recommend it for your garden. Beauty, fragrance.... all in one.

    Parveen Shakir is exquisite. When I smell this beautiful and delightfully fragrant rose in the morning, I feel I am reading Khushbu (Fragrance), the most famous book of Parveen Shakir. Here are two verses translated in English. The translation is quite ordinary and doesn't convey the beauty of the actual verses in Urdu... nevertheless.

    Wherever he did leave to, he returned always to me…
    This stays a best thing to resort to, in his absence…
    In each corner, breathed, news of our acquaintance…
    He praised me fluently like an imbue of fragrance…


  • strawchicago

    I love our group' honesty .. sharing our mistakes to help others. I had just remember that my soil-booklet advised NO MORE THAN 10% of organic matter in the planting hole. True. The years that I dumped tons of leaves in my middle garden it got too wet, and my perennials didn't like that.

  • Samuel Adirondack NY 4b5a

    I can't have anything but compost for mulch either Straw. It is too wet here where I live in August and September.

    Jess is doing good by shredding leaves and starting in the fall.

    Khalid is doing the right thing like Elaine Ingham said. Putting the shredded leave mulch before the monsoon rains to keep the surface of the soil light and fluffy. If there's no shredded leaves mulch the soil would get compacted from the monsoon.

    Here is the Mike McGrath from Philadelphia. you tube Ted talk on composting shredded leaves again. Do I have to shred? Mike says yes, "you have to shred".

    https://youtu.be/n9OhxKlrWwc

    Mike McGrath says you are doing it right by shredding your leaves and starting in the fall. You have to shred the leaves. Otherwise, they are a suffocating mess.

    Ten ways to shred leaves.

    1)The tree trimming company shreds them. 2) I use my collection bag on my lawn mower. Also, like StrawChicago, I collect the shredded leaves from the bags from neighbors who leave them on the street. 3) Mike McGrath says you can use the leave vac. He says they must be shredded. 4)The real experienced Gardeners like Carol have their Family buy them a shredder. 5)The American tree company where I get my compost from uses a big grinder to grind all the bags of leaves together with the muddy muck compost. 6) Some Gardeners crush them with their hands. 7) some Gardeners put the wetted leaves in plastic bags for a while. 8) Some stomp on the dry leaves or run them over with a vehicle. 9). Then also I have heard of the weed whacker in a barrel trick. 10) cut them up with scissors or chopp them.

  • strawchicago

    Sam: Thanks for 10 ways of shredding leaves. My neighbor runs over his leaves with a lawn-mower (with a bagger), he dumped the shredded leaves on his tomato bed in late fall.

    I collected leaves from the neighbors and raked them into my tomato bed in the fall .. they are decomposed by May when I planted tomatoes. The small leaves like white ash, if mixed into planting hole, are decomposed by April.

    But the large leaves like maple or oak takes much longer .. I left them on top and they haven't decomposed yet after 8 months. I did stuff some maple leaves into the planting hole in late fall ... they are 80% decomposed as of June. The holes where I stuff leaves in late fall are very moist like chocolate cake.

  • jessjennings0 zone 10b

    I'm a converted shredder. I'll have to do that with my lawnmower.... I haven't shredded, sigh...but, I used thin layers (this time)... :-)

    I will start shredding with any new leaves arriving. Thank you Sam...


    I am glad that I started in May already. Winter only started 20 June, and that leaves only 2 months until spring. Temperatures jump to above 30 C in October already...growing hotter daily until end of June. That leaves only one month of spring and I think that wouldn't be enough for me to try to get the soil ready to be able to give nutrients to the plants..


    The Lime I added in May will only start showing it's full effect in October. By that time I'm hoping the one compost heap will be ready...


  • jessjennings0 zone 10b

    Khalid your roses are so stunning...

    I think of all your heat resistant roses, and the ones suggested by Straw and others that Straw referred to, only about 3 are available in South Africa.

    Rouge Royale, McCartney, so many many others, not available over here. And so many others that scorch so easily are available....

    ps - I think someone should start a list with roses that should be on the EARTH-KIND list....

  • strawchicago

    Just saw Khalid's roses, that locally red rose is fantastic (can't see its name with my windows shining on the computer). Jude the Obscure likes heat, same with Bronze star. Neither of them can survive my winter.

  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)

    Jess: My experience this year with leaves has been that till the time they are on the surface, it's good for roses. In my climate, they decompose quickly and than I add more dry / fallen leaves and the process continues. However, I DO NOT DIG THEM DEEP IN SOIL or mix them with the potting mix. I haven't experienced leaves stopping water from going down the roots rather they greatly enhance soil's ability to retain moisture and keep the soil temperature cooler than atmosphere.

    Second, a layer of leaves allows me to put wood ash or whatever I want to feed my roses with, on top of the leaves. This way, it slowly trickles down to the roots with rain water or tap water and plant roots are not abruptly exposed to wood ash etc.

    Straw: The red locally bred rose is Hafiz Zaman. If you click the photo you will see the id of the rose given in bottom right or left corner of the photo. While most other roses seem to be under stress nowadays, Hafiz Zaman seems to be so happy growing without a problem. I am not sure about the parentage of Hafiz Zaman but I know one thing for sure, Ibrahim Changa, the breeder, uses only those roses that have, over the decades, acclimatized in Pakistani climate and are proven good performers. Probably in 2-3 decades that those roses are being grown in local hot climate, they have developed natural abilities to survive in that climate.

    This is an important point and let me explain the theory that is based on my personal observation. It is of course, open to criticism. eg. The McCartney Rose is an outstanding performer in high temps in Pakistani climate. While the original cultivar must have possessed ability / potential to survive in high heat, it is continuous exposure to high heat in past three decades in Pakistani climate that has enabled this rose to develop natural ability to fight heat. Now, anything bred from these roses will have a high resistance to heat. What I mean to say is that same McCartney rose being grown in a cool climate of USA wouldn't have developed this kind of a resistance to heat as the McCatney rose being grown in Pakistan since past 25 years has. It is this aspect that provides local roses the ability to perform better in high heat. What do say about this, Straw.

  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)

    This post is dedicated to "Rose Biomes" and hence to "Sam".


  • strawchicago

    Khalid: The McCartney rose is a Romantica French Meilland Rose, being bred in Southern France with hot & humid climate. A few Romanticas are very hardy in my cold zone 5a: Bolero, the McCartney, Betty White, Rouge Royal, etc.

    They can survive winter as long as it's a wet winter with snow, or leaves on top to keep them moist. Yes to leaves on top, they break down faster. I got the crazy idea of stuffing leaves into the planting hole to break up my hard clay, but it doesn't work. Leaves are best on top, and let the earthworms plow the soil.

    Those Romantica roses also thrive in extreme heat, they bloom during our 100 F summer heat, while Austin roses shut down.

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked strawchicago
  • raingreen

    Wanted to show sunscald after very high temps at Descanso Gardens, w/ highest temp 116 F on June 20. Photos taken June 25. Average temps are usually much lower.

    Sorry, don't know how to upload a large-sized photo. Shown is the David Austin Grace.
    sunscald on Cinco de Mayo leaf.


    The phenomenon occurs in full sun, on the parts of the leaves most exposed to sunlight. David Austins are less affected than many modern roses. The photograph of Grace is some of the worst damage I had found on an Austin . Note in the photo of Cinco de Mayo how the vertical parts of the leaves are unaffected.

    sunscald on Cinco de Mayo. If you look closely, you can see the lower parts of the plant were unaffected.


    For my own heat ratings I'm using susceptibility to this phenomenon as well as flower size. The 2 characteristics appear to correlate, but not always. Most hybrid teas are susceptible to the sunscald. My guess would be these plants would be more susceptible to drought, as Straw had discussed.


    Nate

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked raingreen
  • strawchicago

    Judith C. is from France, she posted the below heat-tolerant roses in HMF:

    http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=99.99772&tab=32

    Reply #2 of 11 posted 31 AUG 07 by Judith C.

    One rose that you might like is Double Delight - great as a cut flower and has a magnificent scent. Otherwise my favourites (maybe the list is going to be a bit long!):
    Caprice de Meilland (for colour, bloom frequency, length of flowering period -early spring till beginning of winter, through boiling sun, drought, cooler, rainy periods, long stems with very few thorns, great scent, excellent in a vase)(Also, an afterthought, if ever it does become affected by BS - I don't treat my roses - the stems grow faster than the evolution of the disease ...)
    Rhapsody in Blue (healthy, vigorous, great colour)
    Chartreuse de Parme (colour, scent, great as a cut flower)
    Carris (loads of flowers, long-lasting on the bush and when cut)
    Savoy Hotel (nice smallish flower, fanastic in a vase)
    Tequila (great colours, vigorous)
    Carte Blanche (very vigorous, very long perpetual flowering)
    I'd better stop there, I think, though I could carry on!!!

  • strawchicago

    Nate: Just saw the pics. you posted. Grace has orange/yellowish flowers .. that shade is very sensitive to sun, and biggest water-hogs. I plant ALL my yellow/orange roses in partial shade, and they like it soaking wet .. Pat Austin and Bronze Star both take soaking wet soil in the pots, while others lose their leaves or turn yellow from too much wetness.

    I saw Miracle on the Hudson (bred by Robert Rippetoe in hot & sandy CA). After tons of rain ... that rose's dark-green leaves turned yellow from water-logged. It's drought-tolerant so it could not handle soaking wet pots at local store.

    Cinco de Mayo has glossy, dark-green foliage. The glossier the foliage, the more water it demands. My glossiest foliage is French Meilland Sweet Promise 2007, as own-root it thrived in a soaking wet, & poor-drainage clay .. which almost killed a Knock-out (grafted on Dr. Huey). My super-glossy foliage Sweet Promise can't take salty-fertilizer .. leaves wilt from chicken manure ... so I give it zero-salt alfalfa.

    Also the tiny-leaves indicative of multiflora-parentage (Excellenz von Schubert) or Kim Rupert's thornless Annie. L. McDowell .. I grow both and they are the biggest water-hogs in my garden. Multiflora thrives on the East coast, where it's over 40" of rain, plus acidic & loamy soil.

    Lady of Shalott as own-root has pale and tiny-leaves, and she's a water-hog and really wimpy, can't take salty fertilizer. Multiflora isn't best in CA since it picks up salt. Soil inflicted with drought has higher-salt content, not suitable to multiflora (small leaves in 7 leaflets).

    My most drought-tolerant plants are the BIG & THICK and dark-green leaves like Stephen Big Purple or Crown Princess Magareta.

    In contrast, own-root pale leaves don't take drought well, Sonia Rykiel has pale leaves and it broke out in rust when it was in a dinky pot, fertilized with salty chemicals at 90 degree heat. Same with Charles Darwin (yellow rose) .. leaves are so pale as own-root and refused to bloom in full-sun & plenty of alkaline tap-water.

    The pale-leaves are best with acidic rain water (pH of rain is 5.6), compared to tap-water pH of above 8. The dark-green leaves like Miracle-on-the-Hudson don't need acidic rain water to bloom.

  • raingreen

    Double Delight is affected by sunscald if grown in full sun in my area. Elle, Mother of Pearl and Ingrid Bergman are sunscald resistant. They also maintain most of their flower size altho Elle's flowers can fry quickly. Many other commonly-available hybrid teas don't cut it against sunscald here. Be it noted, Elle and Mother of Pearl are Meilland roses. Elle has a wonderful fragrance.



  • raingreen

    The ones I know to be sunscald resistant often have the heavy-duty foliage. I'm not sure about the glossy/matte distinction personally.

  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)

    raingreen wrote: "Double Delight is affected by sunscald if grown in full sun in my area."

    I have the same observation. In fact, the overall growth of Double Delight in high heat (105 to 115*F) is quite slow, slower than many of my roses. Bloom size is small and fragrance is reduced though it is still a nice fragrance. Both my Double Delight bushes are in pots and are on own roots.

    With regard to performance in high heat, my DD bushes would be somewhere between 90 to 100 out of over 100 roses that I grow.

  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)

    This was on 25 June at 4:51 pm. The bloom had opened up in the morning and had already seen around 7-8 hours of sun when I took this photo. Mind you, the bloom is quite close to a wall that reflects heat.

    The same bunch after 48 hours, ie, at 5:01 pm on 27 June 16. It's scorched a bit but not much. Still holds shape and is recognizable. This is a remarkable performance in high heat. Blooms of most other DA roses fry out in few hours.

    At 7:34 am, the lone bloom on St Swithun had fairly strong fragrance and I was surprised to see such nice fragrance. Impressive.

    This was at 6:25 pm the same day. Bloom is a bit scorched but has survived whole day in 105*F. Not as good as CPM but not bad too. Princess Alexandra of Kent which is the neighbouring bush (both are in pots) has her blooms fried out in 3-4 hours.


  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)

    Few more pics....

    Mild fragrance but blooming profusely.

    Non fragrant so far in this high heat

    A darker shade and moderate clove fragrance today

    Doing very well in high heat. Nice moderate fragrance and very good bloom life.

    Nice moderate fragrance, blooming continuously

    An outstanding performer in high heat.

    Most of my La France cuttings survived. This is the first bloom on another cutting taken in Feb this year.

  • jessjennings0 zone 10b

    Your roses should be published Khalid, they are so beautiful even in this immense heat!


    La France is so beautiful...

    How does Alec's Red perform in the worst scenario?


    Have you seen a rose called Christopher Columbus, Straw, Khalid, am? have anyone grown this rose?


    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked jessjennings0 zone 10b
  • strawchicago

    Khalid: Your roses look very good in high heat, nice colors and healthy foliage. My Just Joey looks really bad, blooms bleached out to beige, so I don't even post pics. I might move it to partial shade for better color. We are in hot & dry phase, up to 90 F, or 32 C.

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked strawchicago
  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)

    Straw wrote: "Khalid: Your roses look very good in high heat, nice colors and healthy foliage. My Just Joey looks really bad, blooms bleached out to beige, so I don't even post pics. I might move it to partial shade for better color. We are in hot & dry phase, up to 90 F, or 32 C."

    Straw: 90*F is not high heat for roses in my view. I mean in this temperature, my roses were performing very well. Could there be other (primary) reason for your Just Joey or any other rose not performing that well. I am not sure if 90*F alone is enough to cause deterioration in performance of a particular cultivar. I mean some mineral deficiency / excess or some issue with the soil that gets amplified due to rise in temp? Or could it be that my roses have slowly been acclimatized to perform better in heat? Just trying to understand what could be the reason for my Just Joey being quite yellow in 105*F and your's turning beige in 90*F.

    best regards

    PS: Sam, did you see the photos of Rose Biomes posted above?

    Jess: Alec's Red hasn't impressed me much. It is almost completely non fragrant since the temps rose above 100*F and is blooming sparsely. When I compare it's performance with many other roses, I would rate it quite low with regards to performance in summers though it performs much better when it is cooler. Sorry no experience of growing Christopher Columbus. I haven't actually seen it here.

  • strawchicago

    Khalid: Very good point on Just Joey .. I bought it a month ago as a bare-root dry stick for $7, so the root isn't big enough to pick up nutrients for best bloom & color.

    When I bought Heirloom rose as a big plant in a pot, its 1st bloom was deep purple & quite big .. then it died over the winter, so I bought a second cheap bare-root for $4, the root is a tiny stick, so the 1st bloom is really small, 1/2 size. I'll wait until next year when Just Joey develops more root-system for best nutrients-uptake.

    Same with Double-delight and heat-resistance. Mine is 2-month-old bare-root stick, haven't developed many feeder-root system yet, so it's scorched in the heat. But the rose-park Double-Delight is many years old with extensive roots, and their blooms didn't scorch at 100 F, or 38 C.

    Below pic. show the cheaper root is really skinny, plus they trim it really short to fit in plastic bag and sell it for $7 at Menards. Mine was just a stick with tiny claws, zero long roots.

  • strawchicago

    Thanks for Khalid bring up that point on good nutrients and deep color. When I first got Crown Princess Mag. as a tiny own-root, its 1st blooms were bad, really small and beige, and it was in partial shade !! In 2nd year its roots got bigger & better access to nutrients, plus I mulched with slightly acidic cocoa mulch, and got the deepest orange ever:

  • jessjennings0 zone 10b

    I agree Khalid, Just Joey loves heat. I hope yours settle soon Straw.

  • Anna

    My roses watered 2x a week with molasses ( 1 tbsp/ 2 gall water) it deepened the color of Quinn Elisabeth to salmon pink, mr Lincoln to pink magenta

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked Anna
  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)

    Anna: These are beautiful roses. Good to know your roses did so well with molasses. Thanks for sharing.

    best regards

  • strawchicago

    Anna: I love your bouquets .. very pretty colors !! What's that pretty white rose? thanks.

  • Anna

    Thank you guys- u inspired me . The white rose is a Jan Paul II. It's a good grower for me, big blooms- even though the stems are still tiny.

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