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vbnagle

Advice-John Tee's new "May Isle Cottage," Southern Living Plan 1905

9 years ago

Hi -- My husband and I recently purchased a narrow (80'x160') lot at the NC coast. We would like to start construction on our 2nd home (and possible future retirement home) beginning in November 2016. We need to build a narrow and not deep home because of town setbacks and working around a beautiful, expansive live oak tree on the lot. The tree is on the right side of the lot but unfortunately is close to the center of our build area with a large limb spread. John Tee's "May Isle Cottage" plan seems to fit nicely in our build area although we would prefer to build an 1850-2000 sf home. So we're looking at how to modify this plan.

That said, we'd like to add an attached garage to the back left side of the house with a front entry. There's really not enough room for a side entry in the back of the lot and garages must be connected to the house (via breezeway or directly to the house). Here's what we're thinking -- If we connect it directly to the house (which should be less expensive), part of the "front" of the garage will 'overlap' the back left corner of the house for entry into the house. I hope that makes sense! While I like the front elevation of the house, deep down I prefer a more symmetrical look but I'm not sure how to change the front elevation to achieve that look. I THINK I would prefer one gable and eliminate the small one on the right. Here are some things I'd like to modify and/or have questions about. I would appreciate any advice others may have to improve flow, reduce cost, appearance, etc. since we've never built a house before. Please keep in mind that these thoughts are not in stone but just things that we're considering or have thought about. Thanks so much!

Attached are 2 different links and photos to the plan and info, front elevation of house, first floor plan, second floor plan, the tree on the lot and a sketch of the garage attached to the house.

Link to "May Isle Cottage" via John Tee website

Link to "May Isle Cottage" via Southern Living Plans


add front load 2-car garage to left back of home (only one car could be pulled straight into garage but right side can be used for storing golf cart, beach chairs, lawn equipment, etc.)
flip the left side of the house so the dining area is in the front of the house and the pantry/laundry is in the back allowing entry from attached garage eliminate/move grill deckif possible move washer/dryer to share kitchen wall to save on plumbing costs (?) and/or have counter/more pantry space on front wallchange stairs so as you enter the foyer, you'd immediately turn left, go up 3-4 steps to a landing then turn to the right to go to 2nd floor instead of having 2 sets of stairs (not sure what code is)reconfigure master bath somehow. Not sure we like the location of the toilet, walking through the bathroom to get to the closet, 'wasting' a window in a closet, and not sure if we'll keep tub or have a large shower.considering moving the front-right side the house back to be flush with the rest of the house which would cut down on size of master bedroom. This would cut down on size of master bedroom and cut down on size of closet in hallway...not sure of other resultseliminate small gable on front right of house; just have one gable -- guess this would put the window above the foyer area instead of the stairsconsidering opening up the 'loft area' to have a vaulted ceiling in the area below -- assuming it would be over the living room area >> what is room upstairs next to right bath? how/where do you access attic upstairs?eliminate 2nd fireplace in "outdoor room'trying to decide to whether to screen in the 'outdoor room' or leave it openadd steps from the 'outdoor room' to a patio for grilling/access to backyardadd a closed in outdoor shower somewhere in the backhave easy access to back of house/garage/outdoor shower when coming in from beach with sandy beach chairs, etc.

What have I missed? Thanks!!



Comments (23)

  • 9 years ago

    If you have a special lot with special restrictions you would probably be better off taking your wants and needs to an architect or designer to create a house that works on the lot. If you do that, then you're building a house that works for your needs vs trying to fit your needs to the house.


    Basically what you're trying to do is completely rearrange the house which would require at the least a draftsman to redo all the plans, and then an engineer.


    Additionally if you're on the coast do you have wind requirements? I'm in FL and for us we save a bundle on insurance if we build with a hipped roof vs the gable roof that is shown in the picture.


    Also are you in a flood zone? If so that would require you raising the house up above flood levels. If not, forget about getting insurance.

    Val Nagle thanked cpartist
  • PRO
    9 years ago

    If you have room there are some aesthetic and roofing/drainage advantages to slightly separating the rear garage and house in front, using a small connecting utility/mud/laundry/whatever enclosed space or even a breeze way.

    If you orient the garage roof with a gable to the front it will help visually balance the small house gable on the far right.

    From a quick glance it appears possible to flip the dining/kitchen/pantry, especially if the connecting link idea is used.

    If it was my house, I think I'd leave the MBR suite/bath and second floor as is, unless you possible want a vaulted ceiling in the living area, in which case the loft could be reduced to a corridor with railing, looking into the living area.

    Good luck on your project.

    Val Nagle thanked Virgil Carter Fine Art
  • 9 years ago

    Here's an idea for the master suite. My folks had a similar arrangement in their winter home and it worked well. They, however, had bypass doors on the reach-in closets, leaving the open area as dressing space with a tall, narrow chest of drawers against the bathroom wall. If you do not like reach-ins, you could have a pocket door on the wide opening as shown here.

    I rotated the powder room so the door opens off the foyer. This way guests aren't practically in your bedroom. Also, the plumbing for the bathrooms is closer together.

    I flipped the left side of the house, just for an idea of what that would look like.

    I wasn't sure how to do your idea for the stairs, though.

    You do have some special requirements for your lot and some specific desires from a plan. Bringing them to an architect might be a good idea.

    Val Nagle thanked bpath
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You said in this thread http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3952597/help-me-find-this-farmhouse-floor-plan-please you were working with an architect. Please tell us what he/she recommended.

    Also, get an arborist out there BEFORE doing anything else. Having had numerous projects where a specimen tree had to be worked around, it involves a lot more than "clearing the drip line".

    Val Nagle thanked Architectrunnerguy
  • 9 years ago

    Wow this house plan looks really nothing like the house you love that ARG just posted.

  • 9 years ago

    I'll second both the architect and the arborist and add a builder who has worked with landmark trees -- not just one who talks big but doesn't back it up. That tree is THE STAR of your property, and I would move heaven and earth to protect it. Hire an architect who has previously designed to best complement similar trees and the arborist to ensure that its roots, and its ecosystem remain unharmed during construction and in the future. Most builders will claim that nothing will hurt your tree, but I would ask for proof with past projects and satisfied homeowners. We have a century old Douglas Fir standing right next to our driveway that is our star. The builder ridiculed my concern, but I put up t-posts and safety fencing to keep the big trucks away. Considering their lack of concern about our property and our road and the state of the fence when building was complete, I am so glad I did.

    Val Nagle thanked bluesanne
  • 9 years ago

    cpartist -- Thank you for your comments. The May Isle Cottage will easily fit the house footprint we have. I don't think there is such a thing as a 'perfect plan' so that's why we are tweaking this one a bit. That said, we are only CONSIDERING this house plan at the moment. We initially were trying to build a one-story ranch but I don't want the house to take up the entire lot. We are working with a builder who will bush hog the lot in the next couple of weeks and stake out the footprint of this house with an attached garage (I am way too visual!). Thanks for your thoughts about the type of roof. I'm not aware of any insurance savings regarding the type of roof but I'll check into it now. We are required to have wind/hail insurance but not flood (but we will anyway). As for the house being on pilings, we don't need that on our lot. We are not oceanfront but are on the sound side. Thanks so much!

  • 9 years ago

    Virgil Carter Fine Art -- I appreciate your comments and well wishes on our building project. I like the idea of having a similar gable roof on the garage to visually balance the small house gable! I'm hopeful we can flip the left side of the house. especially if the connecting link idea is used. Thanks for your thoughts on the MBR suite/bath. I think my husband has more of an issue with it than I do. A friend has a similar set up and she likes it just fine. Not sure if we'll floor the loft area or vault the ceiling for more a more open feeling in the living room. I think for resale purposes way down the road and for energy efficiency we may be better off leaving the loft floored. The 1st floor has 9' ceilings so I think we'd be fine.

    If it was my house, I think I'd leave the MBR suite/bath and second floor as is, unless you possible want a vaulted ceiling in the living area, in which case the loft could be reduced to a corridor with railing, looking into the living area.

    Bpathome -- Wow! -- thanks so much for taking the time to redraw the plan--especially since I am so visual! It does appear that flipping the left side will work out fine. I like your idea of moving the powder room door. I'm not sure what you mean by "bypass doors on the reach-in closets." Does that mean you enter the bathroom through the closet? In looking at this we may end up eliminating the tub all together and making the shower bigger. It may be nice to have the toilet in it's own room and maybe put some storage/shelves on the far wall. As for the stairs, I just don't understand why we have to have a full double set of stairs with a landing in the middle. Wonder if it's required for a 9' ceiling on the first floor? I was thinking more of something like the below photo which would give us a wider foyer and upstairs. Does that make since? Would be interested in your thoughts. Will run it by our builder as well.

    Architectrunnerguy -- Thanks for your input. About the farmhouse I liked--I never heard back from anyone about that floor plan and have moved on. While I like the farmhouse look, I have no idea what the floor plan looked like or if it would even fit on our lot....most likely, it would not. Tee's front elevation does have some 'farmhouse' elements to me and we will most likely use vertical board and batten siding on the lower and shaker shingles on the gables. Jury still out on that at this point though. And I appreciate your point about getting an arborist to the lot. I have the name of a fine arborist who also works with national forest land in the area. The tree is the main reason we bought the lot and why we are working to find a plan to "fit the tree." :) The tree will be the focal point of our backyard.

    Bluesanne -- I agree with you 100%! As mentioned above, this live oak is the reason we bought this lot! We will have a professional arborist (or two) look at this tree soon. There are one or two dead limbs that need to come out and if it needs any additional trimming, I want it done right, not butchered. We may add some 'uplighting' to the bottom of the tree to highlight it at night if we can do it without damaging the roots or any part of the tree. It is awesome! Someone told me they thought it was 300+ years old. Hoping to get a more accurate assessment from an arborist. I'm sure I'll insist on a barrier around it. Thanks for your thoughts and glad your 'star' made it through the building process!

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sitting here wasting time waiting for the Sun to come up so to head out the door for a dawn run so I'll write a quick follow up.

    You're right, there is no such thing as the perfect plan but there is such a thing as a plan that falls short of full potential in both the tangible and intangible ways. They're legion, both here on this forum and elsewhere and the costs to build either way are identical.

    Since I'm in a hurry, let me just reference this thread I added to just this last Sunday. Scroll down to the next to last post there and go through all the links. Take your time. You're in an endeavor that involves a healthy six figures of your hard earned money with no "do overs" http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3955957/critique-my-plans?n=15 And read the part where I write about "Trust" (first link).

    Val Nagle thanked Architectrunnerguy
  • PRO
    9 years ago

    The facade needs to lose the second gable; the fake one. Or does it give the master bath a cathedral ceiling?

    Casey

    Val Nagle thanked Sombreuil
  • 9 years ago

    Casey -- I agree. While it gives the house some 'interest,' it is actually a window in the attic area. Personally, I like a symmetrical look. Thanks for you thoughts.

  • 9 years ago

    Instead of the attic gable, if you wanted some natural light in the upstairs bathrooms you could add small shed dormers to them.

    For the master closet, you could leave the space open to the master hall as a dressing area and have closet doors on the clothes area. Or, if you don't mind walking through a corner of a walk-in closet to get to the bathroom, you could make it a walk-in closet.

    You could eliminate that hallway by moving the bedroom door to the other side of the living room fireplace, right in to the bedroom. Then you have more room to configure the closets. You could walk PAST the closet(s) as opposed to THROUGH to get to the bathroom. But, that makes furniture placement in the LR nearly impossible.

  • 9 years ago

    As far as the closet through the bathroom situation...it is one of those things that if you haven't tried it, seems like it would be odd. However, we have this set up (not exactly like yours, but you do go through the bath to get to closet) and it took a bit of getting used to, but now I wouldn't have it any other way. We decided to put ALL clothes storage in the closet, no dressers in bedroom at all. This takes a bit of forethought and a good closet designer, carpenter...but you can make your closet an amazing dressing room! An added bonus is we have tons of space in our 16 x 17 MBR for seating and other furniture since we don't have bulky dressers.

    You will appreciate the window for light when you want it (we have wide slat plantation shutters on ours which are super easy to adjust the light) and a room-like ambiance in the closet. My dh travels a great deal for work & often has early morning flights. He can shower, dress, pack....and I never hear a peep! :) Anyway, I guess I just wanted to give you another perspective on your MBR in case changing it causes too many other problems.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Coming in late on this, but it's a cute, simple house -- not overdone as so many are.

    I like the flip-flop of the kitchen and dining room. If indeed you place a garage at the back left, as suggested, it'd give you a perfect entry through the pantry /laundry. Since that area isn't too big, I'd consider going with a stacked washer/dryer.

    I'd consider losing the wall between the dining room and the staircase -- it'd allow you a nice, airy through-view.

    I'm not loving the idea of walking through the closet to reach the bathroom. If you're set on this, I'd vote for a walk-through with a closet on each side. Something like this:

    More thoughts on the bathroom: You're looking at a half-bath right next to the master bath. How about going with a separated bathroom -- something that's done in Europe; my daughter's future in-laws have this arrangement. The master is just as close to the toilet, it allows for a more luxurious shower (something you'll want in a beach house as you're trying to wash the sand from all the cracks), and it's a money-saver. You could easily close-off the master wing from the foyer, making this a private bath in the evenings, yet open it to the household during the day.

  • 9 years ago

    The tree is the main reason we bought the lot.

    Then just off the top of my head I'd think you'd want the 2nd floor bedrooms windows oriented out the back, if that's where the tree is. And if there's a garage where you showed it, then organizing the first floor where the kitchen and dining can enjoy the same view. That tree should be a major "driving the bus" design factor for the whole house, especially if that's the main reason you bought the lot.

  • 9 years ago

    Architectrunnerguy -- Thanks for the comments. I haven't been able to find a rear elevation for this plan so not sure if windows can be added to the upstairs bedrooms. There would be a nice view of the tree from the loft area though. I believe it'll be easily seen from the entire downstairs area with the exception of the pantry/laundry if we flip that.

    We may end up meeting with an architect but I feel like I need to start with an existing plan to help me "see" it better since I'm so visual. What we want is a 3 bed 2.5 bath open floor plan with a downstairs master and laundry room (not closet). The dimensions of the plan fit the buildable space. See survey below. We will most likely end up with an L-shaped house with the small part of the L going back towards the tree. We can only go as deep as 48' including any porches. We can go deeper on the left side and as wide as 47' if we add a driveway and garage around back.

    One area of concern with this plan is lack of storage. Doesn't look like a whole lot in the attic area. I do like the openness of this plan and being able to see front to back when you walk in the front door. Still want to find out if we can redo the stairway like the picture below (ignore closet) to allow for a wider foyer.

  • 9 years ago

    Ok, I doubt if you actually spent time reading the link (and more importantly, the embedded links in that link) above but there's not a thing in the world wrong with looking at internet plans. Where they fall short is when it comes to special criteria and then it's a slippery slope into a "square peg/round hole" situation.

    And not a thing in the world wrong with collecting internet plans and bringing them to a person of design talent and using those as a starting point towards maximizing the positives of the site. Folks bring internet plans to me all the time and they're great points of departure but not necessarily where we end up. Look at the link I cited that has a photo of an actual design session with me, the client and the builder. That session started with client ideas represented by internet plans they brought in but then we worked towards something better. Just don't get hung up on "Here's what I found, now draw it up!!".

    As another example go here: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3865411/project-design-update?n=11 And now please go to the embedded link to see the client plan we started with but came up with something much better.

    You have a very special site. Maximize it's potential.

    Val Nagle thanked Architectrunnerguy
  • PRO
    9 years ago

    When it comes to stairs they can be more complex than what they appear. Rise and run are very important and code-minimums are not usually good design guides, particularly for those with some sort of motion or vision impairment. "Winder" stairs, as shown may or may not be a good fit if there are folks with motion or vision impairment. Width is another issue, since large, bulky items usually have to be moved up and down the stairs. Aesthetics are another issue to consider. But stairs are fundamentally about the math: 1) the floor to floor height; 2) the desired riser and tread dimension; 3) clear tread width outside the graspable handrail(s). Calculate all of these and you will have your footprint. Chances are the stair will be larger than you think, if it's well designed.

    Val Nagle thanked Virgil Carter Fine Art
  • 9 years ago

    ^^^ - see how awesome this is??? Design in a vacuum so often fails that quality that you can't quite put your finger on, but that makes all these inspiration photos so drool worthy...

  • 9 years ago

    So much better than a stock plan ARG.

  • 9 years ago

    Given the recent thread where a discussion developed about house size relative to savings http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/4056449/building-and-where-to-save-money-ideas?n=35 I wonder if the arborist ever showed up on this project, another house that could easily be designed smaller.

  • 9 years ago

    I'd be curious to know too.