Contractors are a world unto themselves- they answer to no man. I feel your frustration...

And what are you and or is he doing about it?

You'd think that when people had tear crap out and redo it - they would tire of it and learn... but that does not appear to be the case. You really wonder what percentage of a new build is errors and "do overs"... This is the stuff that drives is all absolutely batshit crazy.

Setting the tone that mistakes WILL require a do over, may instill a little better oversight on the front end.

I called redgaurd helpline. You absolutely cannot use Acrylpro over redguard. "Anything in a bucket is mastic, not thinset". "You need to use a poly-modified thinset NOT unmodified."

I asked if we have to rip it out, it's only a little bit - "yes, you have to rip it out".

Cripes. At least this contractor didn't yell at me like the last guy. I am really, really tired of being yelled at as a tactic (sometimes successfully) to get me to back down.

I'm also really, very tired of reading instructions better than the people whose job it is to know how to do this stuff. It's frustrating as h**l.

I'm also very tired of being told, "not to read so much" and "if you think you know better, get someone else". So, thank you for the sympathy and I'm offering a lot of empathy to anyone going through the same thing!!

Speaking of crying, screaming, or giving up. I gave up. This is the picture I showed, sent via text, and discussed with tile man.

Clearly above is offset subway tile. Below is how my tile was installed. :(

I am soooo tired of hiring a professional and not getting a professional result!!!

OMG, awful. Plus I feel like I am getting raped with these prices.

Yes, that's really the biggest problem. I once told a carpenter that if I'd wanted to look like my husband had done the work, I could have had him do it at no cost. "Professional" appears to not be part of the vocabulary of many workers today.

Our contractor was supposed to get us into our house 4 months ago and we're still weeks away so I feel your pain. Also, I think he installed your toilet in the wrong place.

As a contractor, I ALWAYS recommend to people that they do NOT pay ahead for work not completed. It is an industry standard, especially in the commercial contracting world, to have 10% retainage withheld from progress payments as sort of a guarantee the work is completed correctly. As a residential customer you should not have to pay ahead for anything other than materials and you should have a formal proposal from the supplier as to what the cost will be. If your contractor is not willing to accept these terms he's probably not a good contractor, or is too busy to care anyway.

I think so much depends on the teams, when different trades come to work. Some are amazing, some are less so. And often within one team you meet all the types. Like in a fairy-tale: "Once upon a time there lived an old man with old woman.and they had three sons. and the first one was a smart guy, and the second was a so-so, and the third was a fool". So while the smart guy is busy doing his job in a best way possible, and the so-so does something simpler yet decent, the fool one decides to do something that you don't even comprehend after-and everything should be redone after him. Or he just decides that he's gonna be fast. Real fast. And then everything has to be redone after him again.

What can I say. Humor helps. It's been a year and 8 months, we're still not in the house..and while all this made me into an unpleasant bitter witch(without magical powers lol), sometimes it's just too funny. I hope I will loose the witch element after it's over, but will remember the nice and the funny)))

When I pointed out to the worker that he had just installed the backsplash strip upside down on one side (but right side up on the other side) of the bathroom sink, as I left I heard him mutter to the contractor "I wish she'd told me before". That was the last straw (lots of other goofy stuff had gone one) and the last day of the project anyway, so when it came time to start the second bathroom, the contractor said "you probably want someone else, don't you?" Oh, yes. And they were fantastic.

Ugh on the tile. I'm so sorry!! Yeah. I know. I read of people having drawings done of how the tile will look, or sample boards - not in this area.

To be fair - he doesn't get quite to yelling. Very heated, very aggregated, very annoyed, loves to threaten, "if you don't like the way I do it get, someone else" when I don't have time to get someone else or have enough left on the contract to do so and he knows it.

So yeah, it's not fun when he's stressed out and I'm a newbie at the same time.

Wow on the upside down tile strip and comment. Also wow and I hear you on the sexism. I came from an area where I didn't encounter it, so it's so very strange to get a figurative pat on the head and a "you're thinking way too much".

It's reassuring to hear I'm not the only one whose reno has kept them out of house and home for over a year. It would have gone a lot faster if I hadn't been shown over and over again I really do have to be this paranoid.

Just skimmed thru, but as a contractor I hope you didn't pay for this and hopefully fired the guy. We hear stories like this almost weekly. Makes us look like the scum of the earth. PEOPLE CHECK THESE GUYS OUT. AND IF YOU ARE HIRING THE CHEAPEST GUY THIS WILL HAPPEN BECAUSE HE WILL GET HALFWAY THRU YOUR PROJECT AND REALIZE GE DIDNT CHARGE ENOUGH AND START CUTTING EVERY CORNER POSSIBLE TO SAVE MONEY AND GET DONE ASAP. SO MANY WAYS TO CHECK THESE GUYS OUT. I HAVE HUNDREDS OF PREVIOUS CUSTOMERS WHO ARE MORE THAN WILLING TO LET ME BRING POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS OVER TO SEE MY WORK, ACTUALLY THEY LOVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW OFF MY WORK/THIER HOUSE.

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I did not hire the cheapest guy and I did check him out.

Contractors provide the references and can choose people who will say good things about them, in a small town people may be hesitant to write a bad review, others are not always educated enough to know that their showers may fail in five years, so they love the guy and recommend him to you. Or, they worked with an architect that kept the builder in line and you did not, etc.

Unfortunately, a rather large percentage of it is a crap shoot and when things go awry, it lands on you and you have to decide for yourself what is worth fighting for and you may learn you are more (or less) tough than you thought.

Another yelling contractor!

We're building, husband is the GC and has been in construction >25 years but this is in NC, a new-to-us state and all new subs.

Professionalism seems to be a vague concept that some may have heard of but have no intention of practicing. Doesn't matter how many people we interview, how much detail we put into the specs, how many times they assure us they are on board, can start on the expected date, can meet the schedule etc etc. It's often no call no show, then no excuse when they do show. And if I heard it once I've heard if 100 times, " We don't do it like that." or "This is the way we've always done it." when they blatantly ignore the specs. Rip out, re-do or more often than not, DH just gets fed up and stays to do the work himself.

We've had exactly 1 sub who delivered exactly what we requested (and a bit more) in a timely manner, with a respectable work manner and he's originally from the midwest as we are. I'm smackin' my head on a daily basis.

Our builder quoted us like 1300 to paint the trim on our house. We noticed all it got us was the facia on the soffit. We pointed it out and they said that was normal and the stuff we wanted to paint was not trim. So.. I sent them a link to the lowes ad where they bought the "wood"... "3.5x144 Hardi Board TRIM.."

The reply, "point taken."

lol

Plus he installed your toilet inside your bathtub!!! What is that!?!?! i suppose it might be more efficient that way. You didn't request that, did you? Man you really should have come on here for help with the bathroom layout. The tiles are the least of your concerns! ;)

Jae V. I would flip out over that tile job and take the materials costs to replace out of their fee. They need to redo that tile ASAP. We just started demo last week. So far, so good but I am expecting some hiccups since I've been in construction (residential, then commerical) since 2003. I'm just waiting to see how big of a hiccup and how they handle it.

Thanks for this thread. They're about to lay my bathroom tile. I'll call and confirm they're doing it right. Unfortunately I just had surgery yesterday and I probably can't get up there for 7 - 10 days.

wowza. to be fair - I kinda like the stacked tile look - but I know it's not what you wanted (I Like modern and think that's a fun twist on running bond subway that appears to be so ubiquitous)

So far I think we've been lucky. Our grading contractor was the only one that required additional supervision- and out site superintendent stepped up to do that. We've had a really good plumber (under slab stuff), AWESOME concrete flat guys (thankfully - we only have 80 kajillion yards more to go...), and despite some not pleasant issues with money on the concrete sandwich panels - the install crew has been VERY detail oriented and much easier to deal with on issues than I anticipated - a pleasant surprise and probably better for their safety. ;-)

I HATE sexist comments - I am fully capable of reading specs and dealing with instructions and technical issues. Luckily - so far none of that. I do think that several of the contractors are a little afraid of me and I am fine with that. I don't like being particularly aggressive - but starting out that way sets the tone that you won't be trifled with - especially if someone has the inclination to be a little sexist at the onset. I still bring folks donuts in the AM a couple times a week, and then get ice cream during the hottest part of the day - so I am not a complete ogre. Hubby and I are working right alongside folks in 100+degree heat, so you build a little street cred.

So - my advice - start out a little more aggressive than you usually would. it's totally foreign to me - as I work in a pretty "mature" professional field and one that is NEARLY devoid of any "ism's" (sex, race, etc) I think that in construction niceness is taken as weakness and it's a bit of a dog eat dog world. If you start at a more aggressive place you might be a little uncomfortable, but I am pretty well guarantee that your "aggressive" is still way nicer than what folks are used to dealing with.

It's a rough and tumble world out there - be fair - but sharpen your elbows a little and set the tone early on. Hopefully it'll "discourage" some of the threats and taking advantage that can go on later. And a little overreaction sometimes gets the point across.

Chin up! Don't internalize this and struggle with it - let it out and be clear in your expectations to fix things. We have your back!

jannicone, I hear what you're saying, and I think the stacked tile looks cool in more modern homes, but my house is more traditional. Also, if you are going to do stacked, you better make sure you get the grout lines nice and even or it looks truly crazy, which is what I have going on in the corner now. Ugh.

Jellytoast, you took the thought out of my head.
My ex-DH, a POC GC always typed his bids in upper case. I couldn't get past the idea that he was yelling at them. Perhaps this GC does that, too?

I almost relish the Little Lady crap. It shows true colors.
As I tap my wad of cash into the palm of my other hand for emphasis, or poke them with my debit card. I admit to standing in front of someone, probably looking up at them, tilted head, small smile, asking, "You're just a little bit of an idiot, aren't you?"

I recently told someone they could stop (actually) patting me on the shoulder. I save my $$ for every step of this now-11 year rebuild, sometimes for a few years. (BTW. I hope you guys with a year into it never have real trouble if this is so overwhelming to you.) If someone thinks they're going to stereotype, patronize, step in, take over, do me a favor, "help me out" or tell me what I really want, they're in for a rude awakening. And I slap them silly by reducing their income by removing them from their job. But I think the problem is they do NOT think.

Stand by your guns and make them fix it. Aggressive tones are just words. Sticks and stones. But if he's giving you an ultimatum and you fall for it? Tired, busy or not, you are playing his game. Throw his sorry butt out. Get the materials you pay for even if you have to unload the crap from his truck yourself. There's always locking someone's tools IN the house until you're good and ready to "get someone else." If there's work you're unhappy with and they won't fix it? Or they want more money? Tear it out, give it to them and throw them out.

My DH was in a construction meeting once. The owner wasn't going to pay a concrete guy. When they told him no for some reason or another, evidently he said, "OK." Picked up his walkie-talkie and said, "Boys? Rip it out." They could hear the back-hoes fire up and the panic in their voices was amazing. Suddenly they had the money to pay him. All he said was, "And that'll be cash, please."

My point is that two can play at that game. You have they money, they do not. They might own the job, but you are the OWNER.

Hmm. You might get the impression I feel strongly about this. Having been married to a life-long GC, whose family were GCs, I know both sides of it. Don't play the game. Put your money where it works the best.

Good advice Jannicone! I hope they rip your tile out, Have V. good luck!

Oh the tile error is awful. It would have made me sick,too.

I know contractors get irritated at me because I ask too many questions. I can't help it, I'm just curious! Lowes has the worst, rudest floor help, especially the men. They have no time for explanations of the product or how to use, operate, ect. Their attitude is "You should know this". And ladies, have you ever gone to a lumber yard? eesh.

^ true story - wanted to get my brother a funky mailbox post for Christmas. Only available at lumber yard. They don't see many women. They fell all over themselves trying to help me - even selling me the "floor model", and finding the copper top for it and adding some trim AND getting a discount. Hubby calls it the "boob discount" - so I guess there's good and bad with that.

I'll take fair and respectful treatment any day over the boob discount. If I'm getting the boob discount, it's being given by a boob.

(well some of us do happen to have some real problems..so when a not-so-real first-world problem( like paying two mortgages, one rental for MIL, remodel, schools, and- significantly larger than I'd like- medical expenses) climbs on the top of real problems breathing heavily and all-it gets a little bit too much, and kinda interferes with solving real problems. Because real problems usually demand time, energy, money, giving hand and heart open to others. And you still have all that-but it looks like a river after a drought. And for what? A house?

We didn't start it for ourselves-life happens, circumstances change, health declines, death in the family-and you understand you need a different house because family has now different needs.

And we really, really didn't want to get into it. But we had to. Obviously misjudged several things, etc.

So now family has a very shrunken version of both of us-me and DH. And it was our last intention when we got ourselves into this thing, for this family sake. Doesn't make any sense. And yes, makes one feel mighty stupid and pretty sad. ("One" is obviously me))

But. This too shall pass.

Maybe even soon))

Say, "What is the Acrylpro for?"

"My DH was in a construction meeting once. The owner wasn't going to pay a concrete guy. When they told him no for some reason or another, evidently he said, "OK." Picked up his walkie-talkie and said, "Boys? Rip it out." They could hear the back-hoes fire up and the panic in their voices was amazing. Suddenly they had the money to pay him. All he said was, "And that'll be cash, please."

Absolutely against the law. When you install something in someone's house, it becomes their property whether or not you think they've paid for it. Been there, done that, talked to my lawyer. Can't be done legally. Slap a lien and fight it out, but unless you want to be arrested for stealing, leave it in place.

Ok. I actually know this one. (Anyone not looking to know about Acrylpro should skip this whole entry.)

If your tile is larger than 6x6 you cannot use Acrylpro over redgaurd. Period. Really. Even according to the people that make it.

Redguard (a waterproofing membrane) and Acrylpro are both made by custom building products. From the horse's mouth ...

You can find that under "technical/installation" and here's the link ...

http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/products/setting-materials/mastics-adhesives/acrylpro-ceramic-tile-adhesive.aspx#

And here's the phone number ...

Notice it states you can use it on tile up to 8" but that isn't when used over redgaurd, as you can tell in the first screen capture.

I had 6x24 tile. When I mentioned we can't use Acrylpro my guy said, "what do you do all day?" "I do it all the time and it's never been a problem."

I showed him the screen capture and it stopped him in his tracks. He just said, "what do you want me to use instead."

That's when I called the helpline. You need to use a MODIFIED thinset - one that comes in a powder form and you have to mix it. Here's what I texted my guy ...

We didn't get the brand they quoted but my guy took it to heart and read the fine print and brought back the only thinset at HD that was rated for large tile.

More from the help line (I called back three times and each guy was great) ...

"Anything pre-mixed in a bucket is mastic, not thinset. Any contractor knows this." (No, they don't.) "If you have redgaurd and large tile it's like sticking the lid on the bucket and the Acrylpro won't dry." (Or like water between two sheets of plastic.)

"Thinset cures chemically." (Aaaah, that's why.)

Google thinset vs. mastic. Or don't because it will freak you out that your guy is even considering using mastic.

You might also want to ask what kind of grout he's going to use since there's new grout that doesn't need to be sealed and won't stain or grow mold.

Also, hugs Aprilneverends!!

Thanks)) Hugs to you too-all will be fine

Glad to help! I think they could do a better job labeling it, my guy was ticked and worried about the other showers he's done.

I guess I'd keep a sharp eye out if there isn't a bag of powdered thinset set there already. Why would a 'maybe we'll need this' be on hand but the 'will definitely use' product isn't? There are reasons of course but ... good to watch.

When my guy was faced with using the thinset he grumped, "it's so much harder to mix" and I said, "don't you just use a paddle attachment on the drill?" He replied he didn't have one. I genuinely offered to buy it but he said, "no, it's not expensive." I have purchased alternate grout and stuff like this because it was outside their normal routine to ease the transition to doing something new (which I have trouble doing myself) and because $50 cuts deeper into a day's pay than a renovation budget.

As for mastic products, some forums will say there's no reason to use it anywhere it gets wet at all since it is an organic product and can feed mold if it gets wet and doesn't dry out and the thinsets have gotten much easier to use.

What size is your tile? Would love to see.

I don't think so. If you're using thinset, which it sounds like he is and knows what he's doing - ask him what the maximum size tile you should use. My contractor didn't want me to use larger than 12x12 or 6x24 because the floor isn't really level. Now, he put in new walls and floor etc so that seems like it should have been fixed but I didn't research that comment since there was plenty to choose from and so, fine.

I think you're right about cutting down on grout lines (although this might matter less if he's going to use a non staining, anti-mold grout). It's also faster for them if the tiles are larger, probably up to a certain point until the tile starts slipping down the wall or something. Don't really know but sounds like he would.

In case this thread is scaring off potential remodelers, I want to say I absolutely ADORE our G.C., who is both creative and a perfectionist, has a great sense of humor, and does 80% of the work himself --even though he's turning 70 next week!

Plus, he was our lowest bidder by far. I don't always believe in the "you get what you pay for" slogan, and he is definitely one reason why. He often goes to extra lengths to save us money. Three cheers to great G.C.s!