Invite her to do something together that you both might enjoy? Does she go to Al-Anon? I hope so because that will give her lots of support. She may be worn out from dealing with this, but maybe going to see some gardens, out for a walk, whatever she might enjoy just for a break.

yes, listening is the most helpful. I have found being very up front about those feelings is so helpful. Say right out, "I don't want to say anything that might cause you additional pain."

Pitfalls are, "I know how you feel." No, you don't.

"I understand"...another version of the above.

Better is, "I can't imagine what this is like for you."

"We love our children more than our own lives, so this must be an unimaginable pain"

"Your son deserves a good life, so let's hope he can find it within himself to want to recover"

Stay away from advice and anything that might sound like blame. If you do think you have a good pearl of wisdom, lead into it by asking permission to give it. "I'd like to make a suggestion, if I may?" Something like that.

I think it's wonderful you're open to being so supportive.

I've found that being prescriptive is not helpful as it can come across as judgmental and can shut people down. Instead, you can share what you've found that works for you or doesn't work for you in times of stress and share that with her...she may find it helpful to gain insight into how someone else deals with it, or simply benefit from knowing that others suffer as well. Other than that, a lot of listening is good.

I have a friend who, while alcohol isn't the issue, deals with some pain in her family. Listening is best. What works for us is going for a walk with a stop at a coffee shop at the end.

The walk works because she can vent without having to make eye contact or watching your face for some sort of judgement. She can talk and tear up without being embarrassed about it because you can't see it. Walking gives the chance to have the conversation, if getting tough, be interrupted by something pretty or cute.

The coffee is for you and her social time.

If walking doesn't work, drive somewhere where you drive and she talks.

You are concerned about adding additional emotional pain, but addicts and their support team ( who are possibly enablers) need as many people in their life who give no advice but are there to help and as a venting release for them.

Don't ignore the issue though, ask away, but don't offer solutions. By asking questions, you are actively listening.

My friend is also dealing with an alcoholic relative. I try to be the one who takes care of her and reminds her to take care of herself. By "taking care of her" I mean bringing her treats, taking her out for coffee or dinner or a trip, something fun, helping her with errands, etc. It is so painful to see a love one self-destruct, so yes, hopefully she can vent around you too, with just a good listening ear. Also try and remain hopeful that the son can get better, which I sense in your note. Not in a naive way, but as the old saying goes, "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best."

There is a book that has helped many people quit drinking. I highly recommend it. It is by Allan Carr and is called Stop Drinking Now (the easy way). It really helps people take a look at why they drink and how to be in control and not out of control by seeing that giving up drinking is really about a new life, a better life, where one is in control and happy to let the addiction go. I won't go into detail but it is a must read for anyone who is an alcoholic. I hope this helps.

I think everyone has given some good advice, but Tibb really offered some excellent and thoughtful comments you could use.

i woukd not bring up Al-Anon. Anyone with an addict in the family has heard that. In my personal experience, Al-Anon (tried several different local meetings) was not helpful at all, but that is just me.

I just want to say kudos for thinking ahead about how you can offer your support and friendship without adding to the pain. You are already ahead of the game. That is true friendship and she will need you and benefit from you. I echo tib's advise and hoep you find a regular activity like blfenton or a group of options like lizzie suggested that you can explore. Ask her what she would enjoy and what you can do for or with her.

Thank you all. I appreciate the advice and the confirmation. I think finding an activity where she can talk without looking at me is very good advice. I wish it weren't hotter than the face of the sun, here. That pretty much means no walking. Maybe I can get her to drive with me to take Mother to lunch. She's met Mom before and they enjoyed each other. That'll give us a couple of hours in the car while I can drive and she can talk. I want to be supportive but not cause her grief while I am.

If he does go to rehab, that's a good thing. His mother will be hopeful it works this time. Just follow her lead in her remarks. Be hopeful with her. If she says "What if it doesn't work out this time?" then you say "We" will find help together. That's letting her know you are there for her, but keep your word.

The emotional support is mostly needed when the son is home and drinking.

Do you know the son well enough to ask him to have a private chat with you this weekend? If so, why don't you two sit on the porch and be frank with him in a friendly way. I have a good rapport with both of my son's friends (in their 30's now), and although they aren't addicts, I've had private chats with them on other life issues, chats that I initiated. But males are my forte sine I never had a daughter. lol.

I like the idea of the book AK recommended. Ask him if he would be open to you sending the book to him at rehab, if they accept books. Fudge it a bit and say you've heard the book has helped people tremendously.

Sometimes, someone outside of the family can have more impact more than you know. When a family member talks to the addict, they see it as the usual lecture. A friend (or familiar) neighbor can help a lot more than family.

Talk to him like an old friend, ask him the obvious questions, "Your children need a role model, they need a hand's on dad, don't you want to be that person? If they see you beat an addiction, you'll look good in their eye's forever."

Keep us posted and I wish him all the best, along with his mom.

Oakley, I only wish I could sit with the son and have the sort of conversation you envision. Regretfully, I do not know him that well. And that may be a good thing. What I really want to say to him is, "WHAT ARE YOU THINKING!?!?!!? You have adorable children; you have a family that loves you unconditionally; you have a community that has supported you; you had an employer who gave you multiple chances to get your head on straight; and you have squandered all of that for love of a bottle. Suck it up; stand up; and be a man!" All of which I would absolutely never say. I would not even tell my husband I'm thinking that. (Can you tell I have a little anger toward this man for what he is putting his family through?)

ETA: patty, we cross-posted. As you pointed out, I originally said, I do not want to give my friend any advice on how to handle the problem, and if she asks me what I would do, I'll have to honestly tell her I have no idea. And like you, I fear that this young man's resistance to help is going to equal failure at rehab. Conventional wisdom says an addict has to hit bottom and seek help in order for rehab to be successful. This young man is never allowed to hit bottom. And I cannot honestly say if it were my child, I would allow him to hit bottom either.

As a mother who has experienced this, thank you for supporting your friend. Although DH and I had lots of support, we also had 'friends' who abandoned us when we needed them most. Not excusing it, but having spent many years in Al-Anon, I have forgiven them and realize it was probably fear or because they just didn't know what to say or do. Even when you don't know what to say or do, you can always say I am sorry and I am here for you.

I think engaging your friend in an activity she enjoys such as taking her out to lunch or coffee, going to a movie, shopping, etc. are good ideas. For me, distractions were great because otherwise I would sit around thinking and obsessing about how to save my son even though the only person who can save an alcoholic is himself.

I think one of the hardest things to accept is that an alcoholic may never choose sobriety. Al-Anon saved me although it is not for everyone, and I do hope your friend has some program or therapist to help her. Knowing others were going through the same thing was powerful in my healing journey, "I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it."

Sending healing energy to your friend, her son and his family.

I just wanted to add a quick note - I don't know, of course, what your friend thinks of her DIL and the choices that she has made. Divorcing, taking the children (those are her grandchildren) and moving away. Don't think badly of her and don't let your friend go down that road either.

I've seen the damage that being the child of an alcoholic can do ( being one myself). I have six nieces/nephews (2 different families) who are as well and it can be very damaging and even if the alcoholic quits drinking the damage can be lifelong for the children. My brother and my sister did divorce their spouses over the drinking.

texanjana - I feel so badly for you. I had a son who was in his early 20's and dating a girl and they had a lot of alcohol induced drama in their relationship. I was very blunt about not tolerating it and told him that I would choose me over him. I had been down that road with alcohol in my life as a child and wasn't doing it again. I had always been honest with my kids about grandpa and his drinking. They did break up and he's ok. But it is so hard.

I hope your son and your family are ok.

blf, I'll have to give my friend major kudos. She accepts that her DIL did what she did. She has maintained a cordial relationship with her and has the grands to visit frequently. She and the DIL will meet halfway to trade off the kids for a visit. The DIL often is not on time when they've agreed to meet (is that passive aggressive behavior?). On occasion, the DIL has been up to an hour late, leaving my friend cooling her heels in a gas station parking lot. I would probably throw a hissy fit, but my friend keeps her eye on the prize (enjoying her grands) and lets it roll off.

Yes, I think offering advice on how the mother could help remedy her son's situation is probably not a good idea, as is trying to help the son. One can try things in a detached way, but when dealing with an alcoholic one has to accept that they may not be able to get sober and there is nothing you can do about that. Hope and try but realize that you have to accept that it just may not work. They may die from it. VERY hard to deal with. This is what my friend is dealing with. She loves the alcoholic very much and wants her to get better but sadly it may not happen. That is a difficult pill to swallow.

I think one of the best things to do to help a person in this kind of situation is remind them again and again that it is not their fault and that they are coping well and doing the best they can under the circumstances. Advice and suggestions of more ways to "fix" the problem may not help because the person may already have thought of or tried most of your ideas. So help them take care of themselves. Also try to seek out a support group. My dad has terrible grief issues over my mom's death and went to a counselor and psychiatrist and was on meds and went to a grief support group, and none of it clicked for him. Thankfully he kept at it and kept looking around and finally found a group that he can relate to and helps him. Hopefully you can also encourage your friend to keep seeking additional support if she needs it. If one group or doctor or psychiatrist doesn't help, keep looking you may eventually find the help that clicks. For her.

As for the son, well the same thing goes, one just has to keep hoping that someday something clicks for him to stop, but also realize that you have to accept that it also may never happen. Watching someone you love destroy themselves UNNECESSARILY is one of life's most terrible agonies. I have experienced it in my own family, so difficult. The secret is to develop detached compassion, so anything you can do to support your friend in this is always going to be helpful. Also, I will add that even if you KNOW you have to detach, it is sometimes impossible. This grief that you suffer is physically and mentally draining. I know I absolutely do not have the mental and physical energy I once had and neither does my friend, so just bringing over some good food to share or helping with a household task or errand might be the best thing. Doing everyday maintenance for me is even a struggle. My friend and I often bolster each other in just doing the day to day chores. She calls me to check in on me if she hasn't seen me in a while, saying "What can I do to help" and I do the same for her. Most often it is something as simple as, "Do you have a hammer I can borrow?"

Oh, that reminds me of a very poorly run counseling training program/retreat I once went to where everyone was encouraged to over-analyze everything and everyone's motivations. I ended up with a raging headache and had forgotten to pack aspirin and could not leave to go to the store. Everyone kept analyzing what kinds of "issues" I might be dealing with and I finally just excused myself and went to my room to lay down. We weren't supposed to leave the group but at that point I was at the end of my rope dealing with the pain and I just said to heck with it. One guy followed me and said, "You look like you have a headache, do you need some aspirin, I have some." He was a godsend! And at the end of the retreat we all got sat in a circle and had to go around and say who had helped us the most and I know some of these guys attending the training who worked with tough kids from the inner city did not respect the facilitators (because of stuff they had said in the evenings after the staff went home) and were just making stuff up that sounded all touchy feely and the staff wanted to hear. In fact they joked in the evenings about what big emotional "breakthroughs" they were going to have the next day. And I just said that the most help I got was from that guy who gave me some aspirin, which was looked upon as a rather odd answer but it was the gods honest truth!

I'm new to this forum and have been following this thread with interest as I've worked with addicts and have a friend who just relapsed.

These are all very useful suggestions to support Mom and it's commendable that you can be there for her in good times and bad. It helps immensely to take the focus off the stressors and just have fun.

However, I would not approach the son. At this point, you are talking to the disease and not the person. As others have mentioned upthread, shame and guilt will not prompt someone to change.

Bbstx, you deserve an award for such an exemplary display of friendship.

Nanny, thank you for your comments and your compliment. My friend is a very kind and generous person and it is easy to be her friend.

Make that two:)

You are a wonderful friend. I don't know what advice to be give but to be there and not try to fix the problem.

If you can offer " I am here day or night" and mean it that is a nice thing. After that make gestures. People tend to be afraid to ask for help. The idea of inviting her to keep you company while driving to see Mom is wonderful and maybe offers to drive to visit son if that is allowed. Take a book, sit outside and take her for coffee after.

When you are sincerely there I think the recipient knows it.

A lot of very good advice has been given here. Through my own experiences, I can say that I most valued those very few friends who were there for me in a non-judgemental way and who took the time to listen patiently when things were at their worst. Your friend may not want to "burden" you, but time spent over coffee, a long walk or lunch can provide her both with a welcome distraction and whatever time she needs to open up. In addition to inviting her to spend time with you, you could let her know that you are available to her whenever she needs a listening ear and that you respect her confidence.

One question you might raise with her is whether the rehab facility has a program for family members. I participated in a program and found it very helpful. There were a lot of really helpful insights from experts about the nature of substance abuse and the connections with mental illness that are sometimes alongside. Learning from the experiences of others in the group of ten was particularly useful. It was amazing to me how we unwittingly enable our loved ones - adult children, siblings, partners - how difficult it is to set boundaries and to accept that recovery is solely in the hands of the alcoholic or drug user. Almost 3 years later, a group of us still get together, now as friends, for dinner once a month. It is mainly social, but we also check-in on progress and any set-backs and it's a great sounding board and support.

Mini, if there is an opportunity in our conversations to bring up the idea of a support group for family members, I will do so. Because this is not the son's first (or second or third) trip to rehab, surely such programs have been introduced to the family before. If I were guessing, I'd guess that both the mother and the father do better talking intimately to friends rather than baring their souls in a group. Baring your soul to a group takes an immense amount of courage and inner fortitude. My hat is off to you for doing it and for doing it successfully!

In fact, my hat is off to all of you who have lived through dealing with the addiction of a loved one. I cannot imagine much worse than watching your child self-destruct and knowing you cannot fix it; knowing that you have to step back and allow your precious child to sink or swim on their own; and accepting that they may sink. (I seem to be a bit maudlin this morning.)

As I have thought about this, I want to add that, really, there is no need to offer advice at all. Too often we do that when what is needed is just being there and/or listening should she want to talk. A lot of people don't. That is okay. The need to give advice or step in belongs to the advice giver, not necessarily the receiver and is frequently unwanted even if received graciously. MYOB is always a good rule. You are being kind and supportive. That is all that is needed.

Also, rehab is not the time to share what someone might think is helpful. If it is a good facility, they have a program in place and it should not be undermined.

Hope your friend is able to get out and enjoy time with you. Love the idea of taking her out to lunch with your mom!

bbstx, I so admire you for being there for your friend. I have a co-worker & friend whose son passed away about a month ago from his alcohol addiction. He was 26. It was so sad to see my friend go through the last couple of years with his son's problems. He (the son) was living at home, in between several attempts at rehab, but it was a living nightmare at times for the parents, as well as a huge financial drain.

My friend opened up several times about their ordeal, especially to another co-worker who had gone through a short period with her son (on drugs when he was 18 and thankfully came through it and is clean now). I think if you can continue to be there for your friend, it will be a blessing to know she has someone who cares. Stay close and call her often. Go get a coffee, go for a walk, do anything she feels like doing as often as you can.

Oh my gracious, outside. Losing a child is bad enough, but losing them to something that we all view as totally preventable must be soul-crushing.

The good news in this situation is that, so far, the son's health seems to be pretty good. I think he has had relatively long periods where he has been alcohol free. My friend has never mentioned the financial aspects, but I'm sure there are some pretty staggering bills associated with his rehab. And I doubt that he has any sort of health insurance.

Today her son is supposed to go to rehab. I'm holding my breath to see if it really happens. She is supposed to go with me and a couple of other neighbors for dinner tonight. I hadn't mentioned it to her thinking that she might need some time to process all that is happening today. Another of the group asked her to join us, and she agreed!

Substance abuse treatment is terribly expensive which is why many folks don't take advantage of programs that are out there, they can't afford them. I know how much one of my family members is paying out to try and keep her daughter off heroin. Neither of them has health insurance that will pay for it. I am so sick of the same old divisive issues being brought up over and over again in political campaigns, when the serious drug problems that are affecting so many families get short shrift and nothing is done. Drugs are eating up many families from the inside out, way more than gay marriage will ever destroy, and yet it gets all the press.

As for support groups and counselors, there is such a huge variety of ways they are run and how they function, if you have one bad experience that doesn't mean all of them are like that. On the flip side, you may have to try out three or four until you find one that is well run. That program I discussed above is one example of a terrible counseling program, and yet I have seen other similar programs that were excellent, which is why I was surprised at how bad they were. Your mileage may vary for all of this, as to how well the support network functions in your area. My only suggestion is to encourage your friend to keep seeking and getting all the help and support SHE needs. But not all the time, just if the subject ever comes up. I know what it is like to have one bad experience that puts you off the whole endeavor!

Outsideplaying - Only 26 years old. How terrible. My sympathies and thoughts to you and especially to your friend and his family.

bbstx - I hope all goes well with your friend today.

It went as well as could be expected. The son agreed to enter treatment. My friend decided that the day had been too trying and begged off dinner, which did not surprise me. I'm sure she needed some quiet time to get herself together. I know I would!

I've sent her a text telling her I'm here when she needs to talk. I'll give her another day or two, then follow up. I don't want to be pushy, but I do want to remind her that I'm a willing listener.

Thank you to all of you who have provided me with excellent advice. Your encouragement and confirmation is appreciated. I grieve for those of you who have had family or close friends affected by similar situations.

Thank you all for your thoughts and sympathies. My friend and his family are doing pretty well. His whole family (including his parents and in-laws) took a 2 week vacation recently and that was their time of being together, grieving, and healing. He said it was very good to both be together and reflect, and also, truthfully, to not worry about their son. He also has a young daughter who was profoundly affected by her older brother's behavior, so it's been difficult for them to also get her back on track.

My heart hurts for everyone affected by any similar situations and I pray for my grandchildren every day that they stay strong.

Keep showing up and be a friend. That's huge! A walk with coffee was a great example. If I were to be asked for advice, there is only one area that I would feel comfortable giving advice and that would be to say that the parents need to do whatever they can to make sure the kid doesn't get behind the wheel drunk... Even if it means re-keying the cars and hiding the new car keys... adding a new lock on the garage door… putting a breathalyzer on the ignition. Other than that how they choose to deal with him, whether he is in and out of rehab, living with them, not living with them, living off them, etc. I would have no opinion.

Bbstyxz ... Something else... I went through some difficult illnesses (nothing compared to your friend fearing for her son) but I still appreciate those who were always there in any way. Dinner, flowers(from their gardens), a cup of coffee and those who said nothing and didn't call until the crisis was over. I know they were uncomfortable but it did change how I felt. You are an AMAZING friend.

Outside-I am so sorry for the loss of your friend's son. You are so right that siblings are profoundly affected, and I hope his sister is in therapy.

Practigal-If only it were possible to control an alcoholic. You can put locks on everything, pour out endless bottles, etc. but at the end of the day no one can control an alcoholic's behavior except the alcoholic. However, you can take steps to protect yourself and your property.

'When he returns to rehab, my friend is going to need emotional support. I'm really baffled to know what to say. I know just listening is what is probably needed most, but how do I just listen without saying something?'

That's the hard bit.

When my mother had a bit of free time when her 5 kids had gone to school, she thought she might try her hand at becoming a councillor. She joined a group, headed by a councillor or maybe be was a psychiatrist. I can't remember.

He explained that what they had to do, as councillors, was to listen. No talking. They were not to talk. They had to be quiet. The person with the problem was to do the talking, not them.

So, the training started.

He had them sit there, being silent. And then he asked them questions. (According to my mother.)

My mother could not resist answering the questions.

And she never became a councillor.

I was telling my friend about this and my friend somewhat disagreed with the councillor/psychiatrist. My friend thought that sometimes we can suggest things to help. But I agree with the councillor/psychiatrist. The fact is, we know what we should do. And if someone tells us, then we can feel patronised.

The definition of the the word patronise (she said, hoping not to sound patronising) is 'treat with an apparent kindness which betrays a feeling of superiority'.

I looked up some synonyms for 'patronise' because I tend to over-use that word, but the definition was so nice that I wanted to include it here. I think that it's soooooo important never to come across that way, especially to someone who is going through something.

It's a precarious balancing act-knowing when to say something or remain silent. I would follow the other person's lead-unless they are actively soliciting advice, I maintain a supportive role. And I never guide, just discuss and explore options so she can decide for herself.

Correct texanjana, the whole point of withholding the car keys is to protect the parents in case he ends up killing somebody. All you can do is hope that he decides for himself, hopefully the parents are considering a more active approach . Over the years I have met a number of setious drinkers who will not drink and drive, they really do understand that they are impaired but they are a minority.

This recent New York Times article "the anger of cancer" Link might be really helpful to read it had some definite advice as to what to say or not to say and also towards the end mentioned a book that might be helpful in that regard.

Why don't they tell kids about alcohol?

We all see the commercials of people having a good time but no one wants to admit that it can be more addictive for some people. The best words come from the doctor. Alcohol kills brain tissue. It injures your liver. You can ruin your pancreas. If you have sensitive kidneys, it can ruin them too. That addiction is a slow suicide. What kind of pain is going on in that young man's life to make him do this to himself.

I had a neighbor who used to work at a super maximum security prison. He said they just let the addicted inmates go through withdrawal on the floor of the cell. Sooner or later their bodies come to. I wish his parents strength as they struggle through this. I don't think they should allow any alcohol in the home and treat this with a doctor after the rehab.