I'm interested too Mike, great thread!

Since I live in hot humid south I can't answer your questions very well. I have a question for you Mike, I have two of the varigated lemons trees. One had one bloom and one fruitlet it has not dropped yet (fingers crossed) second pink lemon has been sitting in the pot since April, this week it put out new leaves! What is your experience with the pink lemons cool weather like yours or hot and humid conditions for these plants? I wanted to try kaffir lime and a ponderosa lemon but can't find any here.

Nancy

Nancy, I have a ponderosa and kaffir lime. Both are doing very well. The ponderosa I bought early this summer and it was already a large tree with fruits. I thought most would fall off, but many (four to be exact) stayed on and are actively growing - huge in fact. I have no idea how long they will take to ripen, but I suspect they will ripen since my Meyers ripen just fine. My kaffir lime has no fruits yet, but has been growing like crazy.

Oh and great thread Mike! I wonder how my Oro blanco and cocktail grapefruit will do here? I'm not as far north as you, but they will live indoors for several months...

The variegated pink lemon has a tendency to drop fruit even the UCR website mentions that they are not as fruitfull and pretty much everyone here had the same experience incl me . The Ponderosa and Kaffir gives plenty of fruit , though not much use of the Kaffir/Makrut fruit .

I thought the majority of sweet oranges and lots of mandarins need heat , I would certainly like to hear otherwise because I have been actively avoiding those and have only a few of these 2 types .

Also any thoughts about Blood Oranges , I heard they need a mix of heat n cooler nights for the color and sweetness both .

Dev, I recently made a mung bean soup curry and added a fresh leaf, thinly sliced of my kaffir lime. It did give it a nice flavor. I felt so bad cutting the leaf though! It was a brand new, beautiful leaf...but hey, it has many more. I repotted it yesterday because it has grown so much. I went ahead and took a chance on a blood orange - sanguinelli. It was the first of my FW shipment to start sprouting. It is a lovely little tree, but it will be a while before I have fruit, and even longer before they could ripen. I know Ryan (from NC) who has a greenhouse has said that his taste wonderful, but I don't have a greenhouse...yet!

Yes...Nancy..I have all kinds of citrus, but never had a variegated pink lemon..I wish I could help... Northern Hemisphere rating for my trees...This includes a lack of sunlight, shorter days, cold temps, short days, no greenhouse, cold indoors, greenhouse and sunny window sills from fall until spring and supplimental lighting,......

I will share my experiences with you with what does good and it is hoped that many will so we can determine whether or not it's a wasted of time and money to expect something from less than ideal conditions...I know many Citrus Trees that can handle it and produce well while some barely flower, some produce fruit that never ripen properly, or looses twigs and branches while trying to produce something..

ALL ORANGE trees..NO matter what Orange tree I have grown, I have been able to get them to produce abundant flowers and fruit, especially the 'Washington Navel'...It can handle being stored in cold temps on my porch and hold it's fruit until spring, ripen once outside and flower over and over again..A HUGE thumbs up...Downside, if they get to big and all you can do is stick them in a sunny window all summer in warm house temps, you can count on massive leaf and twig die back and fruit loss..If you can stick it in a HUGE window with 6 or more hours of sunlight and rotate it frequently and warm temps, they will ripen fruit and continually grow with no problem...............A+

Ponderosa....This one can handle NO DIRECT SUN at all on my cold porch all winter..I love this one..It will still flower with no direct sun and still produce abundant fruit that matures and ripens whether outside, inside, or very little direct sunlight..I LOVE this one. I stick mine up on a table on my cold porch and it will not get direct sun from November until April..The first to go out, it is not affect by cold temps at all..Lot's of blossoms still........................A

Kaffir..It holds it own well with very little direct sunlight and on the shortest of days all winter..It will still grow fruit on my cold porch and even more so when given direct sunlight and grown outdoors..Not affected by the cold at all...It just slows down to almost a stop when too cold to grow but does not react badly at all..........A

Meyer Lemon...Does very well in a cold room or sunny window sill....This one does not drop leaves even if in a warm room in a sunny window..It's seems easier than all my others..I don't get lots of fruit though unless they get more than 6 hours of direct light, otherwise mine will grow very little or just stay green..Flowers are very nill and fruit count very low if not in hot and sunny location..Even in the greenhouse, barely any fruit or blossoms, but lots of green growth..................B

Limes....NOT good at all in cold temps...Unless it's a 'Bears Lime', all my others have got sickly from colder temps...That is why I keep them on the small size and give them a warm sunny location on my window sill..........Fruit count is low and so are flower production unless they get more than 6 hours of direct sun...Prone to pests more so if kept warm and growing all winter, in particular spider mites. C

Calamondin....Barely any fruit at all, unless mines gets at least 8 or more hours of direct sunlight ALL YEAR...So in summer, I will get good blossom count, but after that barely anything...Does will stored at cold temps with little direct sunlight in that is survives and grows green....But is prone to root rot even in a good mix if kept cooler...I have found them to drop many leaves in a warm environment with a lack of direct sunlight.....B

Artificial lights made no difference at all.......................E

As you can tell, it's the Orange trees and Ponderosa that fare best for me)))

Please share with us..............We could all use this...

Please tell us what trees do great for you under these conditions......

Thanks for the info on the trees Mike. I was afraid of oranges...I have a navel, Cara Cara, ad now a blood. I was under the impression they would not produce much. How old are your orange trees? How big? I have had good success with Meyers, Persian lime, calamondin, kumquats, and the ponderosa and kaffir seem well so far, but I've not had them long. I do worry about this winter. I have bright areas in my home and have bought lights to supplement, but I've never had so many trees. You should try a limequat...mine is very prolific and more cold tolerant than other limes.

I just wanted to follow up a bit on the topic of Satsuma, they actually require a bit of cool weather for the fruit to turn orange, this is why they are NOT popular in central and southern Florida, but are instead traditionally ground on 9a and 8b along the northern gulf coast. There are also newer Satsuma crosses like Orange Front and Arctic Frost which can be grown in much cooler climates outdoors, surviving in ground at temperatures down to 9 degrees F. I have heard second hand from people that have tasted them that the taste is inferior to traditional Satsuma varieties like Owari, which typically don't like temperature dips much below 23 degrees F, and will be quickly killed by dips below about 20 degrees F. see http://today.agrilife.org/2015/06/10/arctic-frost-satsuma-mandarin-hybrid-named-new-texas-superstar/

Hi Mikey nice thread love it . I have had success with almost everything the only tree's I've not had any luck with are grapefruit and blood oranges my Valencia tree produce's a lot of fruit but not great for eating although a very beautiful tree . I have had tremendous successes with key lime Bearss lime Meyer lemons eureka lemons . I did own a navel and the fruit were awsome . I think having a Greenhouse is key and a ton of sunshine . I would love to see if someone would start a thread successes with growing citrus inside there home . I tried citrus in my home during the winter months they stayed beautiful but never produced edible fruit . A picture says a thousand words . Pics taken around last Christmas and I live in Ottawa Canada zone 4b border line 5 .

Brian

How lovely Brian!!! That is spectacular success!!

Thanks Laura so it's very possible if I can do it way up here anyone can do it . With all your tree's you will never have to buy citrus fruit's again maybe a couple of tree's but not the fruit lol .

Brian

Brian, you are right! None of mine produce fruits like that because I don't put them anywhere sunny all winter...They only get full sun in spring summer and fall...I suppose if I traded out my orchids for my trees, I would get lots of growth and fruit! Even my in ground Meyer Lemon does very well, but because I don't get as much sun as I should, it's very healthy and green and grows like a weed, but flowers very little and produces minimal fruit...(

I' am thunking LOTS of SUNSHINE and the angle of it either breaks or makes how much fruit we get....

But I think you are the prefect person here to use as an example as to what we can grow successfully if our trees are given enough light! Just amazing all that fruit!

You are right, outside a greenhouse, i would love to see what trees are producing for people indoors or that have to pull them through a winter. You give hope to anyone that wants to and I appreciate you naming the trees that many can have success with here...I figure if my neighbor too their tree down, I would put all my citrus in my greenhouse, but what's the point since it only gets about 4 hours from now until the leaves fall off the trees ARG I wish I could put a greenhouse on my roof...lol

Laura, don't be afraid of Orange Trees...When you see the worst environment I can provide for them and still get fruit and flowers that should give you hope..They literally will sit on my porch for 4 mo nth with very little sunlight and stay cold and flower and fruit and ripen sweet....As Brian said, the only one I ever had a problem with was the 'Blood 'orange..

Ike, speaking of Satsuma...It seems many have great success with this one as compared to those in high need to sunshine and warmth....I love this one..Mines is loaded with fruit despite so little sunlight!

Those fruit in the bowl literally made me gasp Brian! Wow. Are your friends and family interested in your hobby? People must be in awe when you tell them you grow that kind of fruit.

Interesting you have problems with calamondins too Mike, both of mine have been pretty disappointing. One is new and one is old but same result.

The south doesn't have long days like the north. The closer to the equator the closer to 12 hours year round you get. The closer to the poles the closer to 24 hours sun in summer and 24 hours darkness in winter you get.

Also does minneola actually taste good? Every one I've had had a watered down taste. I'd take a Valencia any day of the week over minneola, in fact one Valencia before a dozen minneola.

Sumo sure tastes great. Most other mandarins yes, but the tangelo, just tastes weak to me.

Brian, beautiful pictures.

Mike, excellent idea for this thread.

My old calamondin has always produced well. It is in a south facing window all winter and kept at room temps of 65 - 70 F. Spends summers out in the sun.

My old key lime has not produced well, kept under same conditions as the calamondin.

this should help

To heat or not to heat

6b Steve

Thanks Brett! That is helpful! Pip, I had a tangelo that I bought early this spring at Trader Joes - it was INCREDIBLE!! Sweet, but with a slight tang...rich, complex flavor. Based on that, I ordered one (I do hope it is at least semi dwarf, bc that tree is getting massive). Then, the next week I ran out to buy more tangelos...the next batch was totally lame...blah flavor..too sweet. I hope mine taste like the first. I can tell you though, that if you get a good one, I prefer them over a navel orange.

I have a calamondin since April it had 4 oranges on it, bloomed all summer loaded with tiny fruits new leaves as well, so it does well in hot humid south. I have a limequat tree it blooms constantly small fruits all over but drops them, largest fruit just dropped. Not noticed much new growth some of the leaves are yellowing and have discolored places in patches while other leaves are very dark green. Can't seem to figure out if I need to move it to a sunnier location or keep it in half sun part of the day. I have not had my plants long enough, this will be the first winter inside. I plan on bringing them to work and placing in south facing windows late October or November. Anyboy else have a lakeland limequat? What is your experience?

Mike great thread!

Nancy

Nancy, I have calamondins that are thriving also. I also have a Lakeland limequat that sounds much like yours. It is loaded with fruit, but some of the older, interior leaves have some discoloration and have dropped. The new leaves though are dark green and healthy...and the plant is loaded with fruit and flowers. I posted about this and I think this leaf drop is normal and sometimes happens when the plant is in high production mode and shedding old leaves. I would bump up the FP as its needs may be higher than your other trees because of its growth and high production.

Laura, I have been doing 1 teaspoon per gallon, I will go up to 1 tablespoon and see what happens....

I use 1 tbsp Nancy!

Brett, thanks for that..I am beginning to realize that ALL the fruit and flowers I get are all based on how much sunlight they get...It seems to me I have no where in my yard in which I can give them more than 6 hours of sunlight except for up on my flat roof..They are just ti big to stick up there all summer..So I buy the ones not so affected by this ...Argg

It seems to me there are a few varieties that can handle the amount of sun and the strength of it much better than others.That is the whole purpose of this thread...

Unless most here can provide FULL sunny conditions in a greenhouse, outside, or inside, then one should not be disappointed at the lack of fruit and flower production...And unless one invests in some huge VERY STRONG over head artificial lights, you can forget about good production too, as good as the trees that sit outside in places like Florida or Texas..

It's good to see how much fruit and flowers others have here without the amount of sun many citrus trees need and still get good production and, most importantly, what ones they are.......??

Brian,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Brian, Brian my friend!! You seem to get quite a bit of fruit and I mean a lot! Do you think you would get that much on your trees if they had much less sunlight? How much sunlight do they get all year? Summer and winter? I mean in terms of hours? From early morning until evening?

If you have some that produce lots of fruit with less than 6 hours of sunlight all summer and less than that the rest of the year, please let me and others know what they are..........HUGS buddy!!!!

Mike

Mikey buddy thankyou. Maybe you should go over and discuss with your neighbor about their tree's it probably would go well especially if you have known them for a while. Has your neighbor ever been over to see your backyard they would be floored by the beauty and would see all the hard work you put into it , I bet they would help out . Mikey that would be very cool having the Greenhouse up on the roof you would get the full sun and probably a great view . They started work today on my Greenhouse I am so excited having a hard time sleeping. . I am actually looking forward to the winter months now , when I go in my Greenhouse it will be like taking a trip to Florida the same scents and humidity . Take care buddy. Hugs

Hobby thankyou I am looking so forward to see your bowl of fruits and Laura 's these tree's grow at an incredible rate so it won't take to long . I see it was very cold this morning in Saskatoon not the minus 2 but still very cool glad you had your tree's protected it's our turn tomorrow night . It's funny Hobby people don't make a huge fuss about my tree's they probably wonder why I don't just plant them in the ground instead of all the pots right and pineapple grow on tree's ??lol .

Brian

Brian, you and I are posting at the same time..lol Look at my post just above you..I have very important questions from you that will determine my next choice of trees..YOUR the best buddy!!

By the way, I noticed you have NO grapefruit....For good reason I assume..

You are too funny...I am just like...I would not be able to sleep too and I would be in my greenhouse every day smelling the tropical odors and especially after I have hosed down all of my plants with the sun out..The humidity feels so good in there..And boy, does the cool air outside hit you right in the face when you come out..ha Yahoo..........

Mikey buddy lol .Mike I get a ton of sun in the summer . My tree's start to get the sun in the morning at 7.00 am and the sun is off them around 8.30 pm . It's a very hot sun to there is not a lot of grass in the backyard . Mikey is your 6 hrs of sun midday when it's at its strongest ? I don't think that you will have any problems with mandarins , limes and lemons or even kumquat . I would in my opinion of course stay away from grapefruit , any kind of oranges except maybe navels they don't need a lot of heat . Mikey with all the sun I get I can't even grow valencia's or grapefruit and my darn blood orange has never flowered . Brett who has his trees in the ground has a hard time with oranges and Grapefruit . My key lime gets the least amount of sun probably 6hrs and its doing great . I dont think you will have any problem with your tangelo and they are so sweet compared to a store bought . Do you get a lot of sun in the winter after the leaves from your neighbor's tree ? Mikey you have to go over and talk to your neighbor maybe this weekend please please ? Lol. Mike thanks for your very very kind words but I do get a ton of help from all the sun and the Greenhouse which gets at least 6 hrs of sun in the winter and all of those thunderstorms you send are way stop that .

Hugs buddy

Brian

Brian, wow...I definitely appreciate what you have had to say..You kind of summed it up in a nutshell..EXACTLY what I needed to hear..You are so right! My Oro Blanco only did well before my neighbors tree blew up...Now that it gets half the sun it use too, all I get is blossoms and one or two fruit...The only way I will get them to grow even better is if I stick them in my work with 20 foot windows that allow them to get at least sun from sunrise to sunset in winter.. HOT sun mind you even for winter standards.. But it's a huge pain to lug them to work for someone else to enjoy...Not worth it to me..

I don't have a Tangelo and I should get one..That's about all the sun I can give it unless I bring them to work. Thanks a million for helping me to understand which one would do well in the sunlight I can provide for the....Makes a lot of sense and I hope many here will benefit from this thread...

Your so appreciated around here..You make life much easier for many trying to grow their trees just as beautiful as yours...By the way, I think you have stolen all my thunder storms...lolHugs back at you.

Hi Mikey I am sorry I misunderstood I thought you bought a variegated Minneola Tangelo and here I was so jealous lol. That's really to bad about all the tree's , we are moving to a very mature neighbourhood with lot's of huge maples but I am lucky they are all on the front of the properties very little in the backyards . Mike you have such a beautiful property your garden is amazing if you had the full sun maybe you wouldn't have been able to grow all those beautiful plants you grow now . I wouldn't change a thing . Your citrus are still no matter how you cut it beautiful and you still get those great blossom's that bring you back to memories of down south sounds good to me . Mikey we used to live in an apartment 16 floors up our balcony faced north we received 2 hrs of sun in the morning and 3hrs in the evening I still can't believe that I was able to grow lemons and limes so there is still hope . Maybe next year your tree's will produce more they tend to do that a lot .

Hugs buddy

Brian

minerno, the general heat unit summation for Massachusetts is, of course, very low, only around 2,000 + or - depending on how close you live to the ocean. Even then it would not change very much. The two most dependable citrus cultivars for both growth and fruit production for your area would be most any of the clementines, and Satsumas, plus the cultivar Gold Nugget Mandarin. Gold Nugget has no heat requirement to obtain full sweetness. A "good" orange variety for cooler locations such as Massachusetts to be grown as a container tree, and also for a tree to be grown indoors would be Washington Navel on Flying dragon. Mandarins would be next in line. Most mandarins require some heat unites, but not as much as many orange varieties. You should also be able to do very well with lemons, limes and kumquats, as they don't require heat for maturity.. As an outside I would try Dekopon - Silica

It sounds like most here have not had much luck with blood oranges. I have 5 or 6 varieties, all quite young yet, but they all flower. My Sanguinelli has gotten fruit for the past 3 years. I think the others had fruit earlier this year but some critter keeps eating my fruit so fruit is rare on my trees this year. I think the Sanguinelli has one or two still the last I looked. I don't know if Sanguinelli fruits easier. I would think all the bloods would be similar, but that seems the one that grows best for me.

Cory

I'm sorry about your critters Cory that must be so frustrating!

I got a sanguinelli and a tarocco this spring and I just noticed the sanguinelli has a pea sized fruit- yahoo!!

You have 5 or 6 bloods Cory? What are their names? I didn't know there were that many wow.

Hobby - herez UCRiverides List , thats what I most envious of our friends in CA , they have access to the full budwood collection at UC Riverside and can graft even stuff the vendors dont carry

Off the top of my head: Sanguinelli Blood, Tarocco, Moro, Budd Blood, Smith Red, Vaniglia Sanguigno, Valentine(Pumello), Red Vaencia, and Cara Cara (lycopene). I mighthave a couple more that I am not remembering and I have multiples of some and a few Moro and Tarocco from seed. I think they all have gotten fruitlets and several have developed mature fruit but they are all still small trees so not a huge amount of fruit yet. I was hoping for a lot of fruit this year as the trees have been doing well even after the greenhouse overheat in April, but something keeps eating or stealing the fruit when they get about 2 inches in diameter. It is quite frustrating. I never had problems other years so it must be something new to my yard. I have chipmunks for the first time this year, but the fruit seem to large for them to take. I had a second Tarocco, but it died suddenly for no reason I could ever figure out. It's twin is still doing fine and they were next to each other in the greenhouse when the one started dying almost overnight. I had a cocktail grapefruit/pumelo die like that also. I am wondering if that is a rootstock compatibility issue when that happens or maybe the graft fails. The Cocktail made 5 ripe fruit last winter and suddenly died overnight. It had fruited at least twice before that and was a strong grower. It was one of my largest trees. Again, I don't know why it died. It did not seem to be prone to scale, spider mites, aphids or other bugs. The rootstock still looks alive, but it has not sprouted at all. I have been waiting all summer. The Tarocco rootstock sprouted some kind of trifoliate and I now have a fairly large tree to graft onto when I get brave enough and find the time to try grafting. Some trees are real scale magnets,but these were not.

Cory

I'm sorry to hear that Cory!! I had issues earlier in the year with critters, but they have stopped now. I only have a Sanguinelli....I've been afraid of the blood oranges.

Laura, I didn't seem to have trouble getting the bloods to color and I am just a little north of you. I just leave them outside longer to get some colder nights. I was afraid also that they might not color up but they did....some more than others. Maybe you could put it somewhere where it is more protted or where you can easily wheel it in if you suspect a really cold night. I have thought about getting a frost cover to throw over them. It might be easier than a blanket. So far it seems easier to grow the Sanguinelli for me, but all the trees are young. Good luck with yours!

Cory

That is great to hear!! I think I am just going to order the dwarf Moro from Harris and save you the trouble of shipping me the seedling. I have been eyeing it for some time now. They sanguinelli I got from FW is really pretty and is starting to sprout. I really like the looks of the tree.

Laura, for some reason my response to yours never posted hours ago. Anyway, you may get fruit faster from a grafted tree. It is still in the 90's here so it didn't seem safe to mail the Moro seeding tree yet, especially by USP. Maybe you would like it in addition to a grafted one just to experiment with? I know your indoor growing realestate is limited though.

A big windy thunderstorm is just moving through now. I can already feel the temperature falling rapidly. The wind blew over a huge monstera deliciosa I had on my front porch which I thought was a protected spot. It was in a pretty hand painted ceramic pot that is all smashed up now. The plant looks fine and also the plastic inner pot. I think I may have preferred the pot to survive as I have several monsteras and only one pot, lol! I will go pick up the pieces when things calm down in a bit here. I'm glad it did not break my porch's antique window panes. We really need rain here. The storms keep bypassing us. The leaves on the trees are all turning brown and starting to fall already. I was mowing them up when the thunderstorm stopped by.

Cory

Cory, as always I missed that storm and all the rain again..My drought is so bad that I think I will have to let my yard plants die off...(((

That seedling you speak of, does that mean grown from seed? I am sorry about those stupid animals ruing your fruit( I am glad you got some much needed rain.

Silica, thanks a bunch for helping me to understand my area and what kind of sun I get and what I need for certain fruits...That was a huge help and it will help be determine what my next move will be...

Yes Mike. It is a tree I grew from seed. I have several of them.

Cory

Cory, I just saw your reply! I am sorry about your plant and pot blowing over. We also need rain desperately here. It has not rained in weeks! I had to water some of my in-ground trees yesterday bc they looked so sad (apples and cheries). At least my Figs are happy and producing well. This is the first year we've had more Figs than we can eat. As far as the Moro...let me think. It would be nice to have a comparison. How big is it? I just want to make sure I can fit it in. I've pretty much decided I'll get a greenhouse next year, but even then it will be a tight squeeze. I will probably keep my Meyers indoors with e tea lights bc I like them in the house and they smell so wonderful. I've still not ordered the Moro.

Cory I to am sorry to hear of your plant blowing over It seems we both had large plants go over with yours pushed by wind and mine well I pushed in the wrong direction. Plant are pretty tough.

6b Steve

12-18" tall Laura. 1-3 gallon pots.

Cory