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alouwomack

Anchoring shelf in kitchen . . .

alouwomack
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago

I plan to use scrap pieces of wood (from my butcher block countertop installation) to make a corner shelf for under my upper cabinets. Roughly, I am cutting the shelf depth at 10 1/2” by 24” in length each direction to mimic the cabinet dimensions & still be useful for plates, bowls, and so forth. I am using brackets like the one in the photo.

I need advice on what anchors I should use??? Since I have only found one stud that might be useful in the placement of my brackets, I am relying on “drywall only” to support these shelves. I am nervous about the weight load.

For the sake of visualization, I added a white fuzzy line to mark where the top of the tile backsplash will stop. And the shelves are shown as pink with the off white brackets.

Comments (48)

  • acm
    7 years ago

    there should be a stud every 16 inches, so you should be able to hit a couple of them. dishes take a serious amount of support! could you hang a shelf from the cabinets?

    alouwomack thanked acm
  • leelee
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Don't stop the tile backsplash under the window. Take it up to the bottom of the cabinet near the fridge.

    Or at the very least stop right under the shelves.

    alouwomack thanked leelee
  • leelee
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    You could add support board that goes from counter up to the bottom of the shelf. Do that on the ends and in the back corner. Use a board that's the same width as the shelf. It might be a cleaner look than adding brackets. Don't attach brackets to drywall.

    alouwomack thanked leelee
  • leelee
    7 years ago


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  • acm
    7 years ago

    actually, you could probably run a cleat all the way around for support, in addition to the periodic brackets. (that's just a narrow board screwed to the wall, that the shelf sits on top of, like in simple closets.)

    alouwomack thanked acm
  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    acm, since I have already purchased these brackets, I was really hoping to use them. To hang them symmetrically, the studs are not really in the right places. I was hoping for a magic solution instead...lol. I am not sold on hanging the shelf from the cabinets since I planned on meeting them in the corner? I am open to pics/suggestions though.

  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    leelee, as for the tile, I am still not sure what my plan is. I have battled with this since February. My photo illustration is just that--only an illustration for the shelves. I agree that I should tile up to the bottom of the shelf brackets at the very least, which with my rough measurements, puts the top of the backsplash stopping 4-5" above the bottom of the window. I don't think I am comfortable going all the way up with tile to the bottoms of the upper cabinets necessarily. This kitchen is a nightmare "cabinet-wise" . . . they are hung way too high, so my gap between uppers and lowers is more than the standard distance by several inches. I had hoped by adding the shelves I could fill that void.

    All in all, I do have the "where do I start and where do I stop" dilemma pounding in my head. I'm posting you another pic so you can see the other side of the sink area. (The door leads to my backyard and separates the kitchen from the dining area.) I actually thought of going to the floor with tile in the area between the end of the lower cabinets and door? And then look at all those light switches! Ugh! I just don't know. I appreciate any and all feedback!

    (Excuse the messy kitchen pic, I just snapped one really quick to show you.)

  • bichonbabe
    7 years ago

    In my opinion, the shelf is going to be a cluttered look. I wouldn't add them if it was my kitchen. Are you moving the microwave? Your drawing shows the shelf quite high. You would not be able to put anything higher than a few inches on the shelf making it less than practical.

    alouwomack thanked bichonbabe
  • acm
    7 years ago

    I certainly wouldn't let "already bought the brackets" determine how I decide to hang a shelf that will have actual dishware on it! Find the right solution and worry about returning hardware later.

    alouwomack thanked acm
  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    acm, the cleat idea sounds like a possibility. Thanks!


    Oh and for the record, I know better than to depend on drywall for support . . . that's why I'm hoping for a magical anchor that will allow me to use those stupid brackets I have! lol

  • Emily Jowers
    7 years ago
    Open shelving on the other side of the window might be more useful and look less cluttered.
    alouwomack thanked Emily Jowers
  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    bichonbaby, I really need the extra storage but in the tidiest manner possible. My illustration was only meant to show the area I want the shelves to go. I think I will have plenty of height space to make the shelves useful? Roughly if I hang them where I think I'm going to it will give me about 9" of space between the bottoms of the upper cabinets and the shelf.

  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Very true acm!


  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    And, the microwave would stay. The shelf would start basically over the edge of it a bit . . .

  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I thought about that too Emily. I wonder about the symmetry? And its a busy area near the back door?

  • susanalanandwrigley
    7 years ago

    As far as height for the shelving, it seems to me that the height should be at the appropriate height over the counter that the cabinets should have been hung at. Not sure what that is but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can tell you the typical distance between counter and upper cabinets. Not sure who thought it was a good idea to hang those cabinets so crazy high!

    alouwomack thanked susanalanandwrigley
  • PRO
    Logistics, inc
    7 years ago

    I like you use of the butcher block wood. That's very creative of you and I admire those who reuse wood. Two quick questions; Are you leaving the butcher block as is or is it going to be stained or painted?, Also are you doing the backsplash yourself? There seems to be a huge nook in front of your sink. ... I guess there's a third question. Is that a window or just a large ledge? If its a window it may not be a bad idea to use a chunk of that butcher block to make a ledge along that window. I like the idea of the shelf and you should try and make it level with the backsplash. If your doing the backslash yourself try and use brackets that wont get in the way of your backsplash. Bellow is an example of hidden brackets... I know your worried about not having any studs. You should have at least on of each wall. With a corner shelve like that you really only need two brackets one on one wall and one on another.... unless your placing really heavy items on these shelves.

    alouwomack thanked Logistics, inc
  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I kind of have the same thoughts about that too Susan. I feel like it won't be too crowded because actually there should've been something there anyways?!?!?

    Oh, and believe me, I'd like to say a few things to whomever that "cabinet hanger person" is . . . lol. It was a sneaky thing to do and it constantly causes me grief. I can barely grab a cup, plate, bowl without stretching myself in half!

  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Greyfox, thank you for the compliments.

    I am not sure if I will stain the shelves to match the countertop or just leave them natural? I don't plan on painting them though.

    I do plan on doing the backsplash myself.

    Yes, behind the shade is a window. I am having trouble seeing what you meant about using a piece of the wood for the window? Would I cover the window ledge (fitted inside) and have it protrude a bit outward toward the sink?

  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    And Greyfox, I have wondered about the bracket you posted. Would I literally drill a hole in to the butcher block? ((Forgive my lack of knowledge here.)) By keeping the shelf level with the tile, do you mean stopping the tile and installing the shelf as to make it look like its almost "setting" on the top of the backsplash?

  • PRO
    Logistics, inc
    7 years ago

    Basically take a multi tool and score out a slot the exact size of the wood piece you cut. You don't want it to extend our to far maybe just 3-5 inches. It looks like you have a semi ledge already so you will be adding value to that and a nice look as well. I'll see if I can find a few example picks for you.

    like this but butcher block wood instead. Also, that's awesome your doing the backsplash yourself. What type of backsplash are you going with?

    alouwomack thanked Logistics, inc
  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Okay, that's what I thought you meant. I really like the ledge idea. I love putting my little plants there already.

  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Here's the tile I've already bought. It is roughly 2x4.


  • PRO
    Logistics, inc
    7 years ago

    Oh that white subway tile is going to look nice! It looks like it has imperfections on purpose. Which I've seen. Just know when you put it on the wall you will have slight corners and edges sticking out. If your ok with that look then go for it! Also after I posted that previous comment I found this pic online too.

    alouwomack thanked Logistics, inc
  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thank you Bryan! That ledge is beautiful. I am thinking I would need to stain it and the shelf to match the countertop.

    I do like the imperfections in the tile . . . it almost looks handmade. My house is very humble & small. It just seems like a nice, simple fit. I am a little concerned about the raw outer border / edges. I don't normally like when grout is used to finish an edge (like in the bathroom pic above). I have thought about finding a nice wood molding painted white to blend with the tile around the top border? And I also don't really know how to approach meeting up with the window either? Perhaps I do need a professional installer? I get myself overwhelmed and it keeps me from finishing projects. I've had the tile since February! I'm still out on how far up to go with the tile backsplash but I feel like I will probably tile over to the door and down to the floor from there.

    Thank you so much for all your expertise! I so appreciate it!

  • PRO
    Logistics, inc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Oh I totally agree with you on the edge part! There are some slick ways to abruptly end tile so it seems appealing instead of using grout lines. Here's a few examples.


  • PRO
    Logistics, inc
    7 years ago

    Its not to difficult to place the edging in. They come with cuts for large flat headed screws to grab onto. this holds them in place. One your have then in straight you apply the mortar and place the tile one by one right over the edging piece.

  • jhmarie
    7 years ago

    I had the same difficulty with my shelves for my basement kitchenette. I used anchors similar to these:

    https://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/fasteners-fastener-accessories/anchors/wall-anchors/8-triplegrip-trade-anchor-with-screws-15-pack/p-1444426696807-c-8726.htm?tid=-6456734766972234174

    It was not these exact anchors but similar that I found over in the shelf area of Menard's. The anchors are rated for 35 lbs and each shelf is held up by two brackets being supported by 4 screws in anchors - so a total of 8 screws per shelf. I also knew I was not putting a heavy load on the shelves - it is a kitchenette after all:) They feel extremely sturdy.

    The beadboard is textured wallpaper, but had I used real beadboard, it would have added a lot of strength to the wall.Beadboard is a possibility for a wall backing to work as a backsplash and help support the cabinets. You could run it from under the cabinets and to the floor by the door.


    My pics -work in progress: · More Info

    My pics -work in progress: · More Info


  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Bryan, that's cool edging . . . much better than just grout.

  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Jhmarie, thank you for the anchor link.

  • leelee
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I love this creative way to end a backsplash when there's not a clear stopping place. It wouldn't need to be this exactly with the curved boards but it might give you ideas.

    You could use horizontal and vertical edges like the far left where it comes up off the counter...just a couple of little steps up to move around the two electrical plates on the right. Put the one nearest the window within the tile box area. Does that make sense?

    alouwomack thanked leelee
  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I see what you mean leelee. That curve is my favorite part of it. I wonder how they made that happen? I love the concept. Thank you for sharing!

  • leelee
    7 years ago

    You should ask people that do woodworking. I've seen curves put in wood like when they do arches over doors on those big western mountain homes.

    Similar to this. You're right, the curve is the best part. Hope you can find out how to make it happen...maybe someone with a skill saw...if that's how it's spelled. I don't think that's exactly right. I know it isn't too hard if you find someone with the right saw.

    alouwomack thanked leelee
  • thinkdesignlive
    7 years ago
    You are better off with a solution like this under your existing upper cabinets. Use the butcher block for the ledge or to the right of the window with a continuous cleat so no brackets are visible. Just a cleaner look especially for your size kitchen.

    Presidio Heights Residence · More Info
    alouwomack thanked thinkdesignlive
  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Edwards, I actually had thought about this before. I would need to incorporate the microwave somehow since I have no where for it to go. Thank you for the example!

  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Okay, so I tend to skip around a lot on what my plan is in this tiny kitchen! Today I am leaning more towards Edwards4four's suggestion on the cabinet "cubbies". I have a carpenter I've used for another project coming tomorrow to give me a quote. I won't decide further on the surface area of the backsplash until this is finalized.

    I am also getting rid of this huge microwave and finding a compact one. I do not need this big thing--- I only reheat small items occasionally. I'm wondering if somehow I could incorporate the smaller microwave inside the new cabinetry to house it off the countertop completely? I hate having things left on the counters...it is too cramped for space.

    Thank you all again for your suggestions and help!

  • thinkdesignlive
    7 years ago
    Most definitely you can design a smaller microwave into the above cabinet cubbies. Have them do a to scale sketch so you can incorporate that odd gap to the right of the fridge. Smart to hold off on tile until you resolve all this.
  • thinkdesignlive
    7 years ago
    And now is the time to address under cabinet (cubby) lighting. If you can swing it it will help that dark corner immensely (and show off your new tile).
  • thinkdesignlive
    7 years ago
    And now is the time to address the shelf design, layout and installation method. You could consider 2 long wood shelves that span the whole length from cabinet to end of counter above the window and actually in front of the window with a wood ledge at the window. This could look nice w plants and glasses, small bowls, etc artfully arranged. Inspiration shot...
    A House Reimagined: Ghosts Welcomed to Stay · More Info
  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    My boyfriend is very knowledgeable in the electric department so maybe I could talk him in to helping me with lighting under those cubbies. I agree that corner sure could use it!

    I had never considered doing shelves across my windows like that. My window catches the hot sunset during the summer months here in Oklahoma . . . hence my roman shade installation. I do like to raise it up and down a lot so I'm not sure how well that would work for my space. Its a cool concept though!

  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Wow, mama goose!!! To say I love your kitchen is an understatement. It is simply beautiful and clean. You've utilized space that would otherwise never be appreciated . . . AND it is WITHOUT appearing cluttered or too busy.

    Also, thank you so much for all the detail on how to build the shelving with corbels. I do love that look.

    I have 3 different carpentry quotes coming my way in the next 24 hours. The carpenter I referenced earlier is not necessarily "kitchen cabinet-specialized" so I decided to consult a few local cabinet builders as well. I will keep you all posted. I am a DIYer but I think this might require more tools and skill than I have . . . plus the time and expertise are worth paying $$$ for sometimes. I will definitely show off your pics during my consultations!

  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Okay suedonim, it is crazy you just posted this because I keep reflecting back to a shelf I hung with brackets in my laundry room that crashed at 3am on some random night literally 18 months or more after installation! ((I added extra weight a few days before it crashed and burned though.)) This "near heart attack" led me to research better anchors and I actually rehung the shelf brackets using anchors just like what you sent a link for. I talked to a guy at my local hardware store and he swore by these for hanging heavy shelves in drywall. Although I was skeptical, I must admit it has held very well for over a year plus. I tug on it every once in a while just in case!!! And you can see by the pic that I have it loaded with weight right now. I think these anchors have proven to work effectively in drywall.

    If I revert back to using the brackets I originally posted about for my kitchen, these are the anchors I believe I should use. I wonder in my kitchen how I could make the screw heads appear more appealing / match the brackets though? I'm kinda picky about that little stuff. It would bug me to see those shiny silver screw heads. Perhaps I could paint them to "match" . . .

    Thank you for the link! I love the tutorial as well!

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Thank you!

    To make the screws on the brackets blend in, get a little bottle of appliance touch-up paint (epoxy) at one of the big box stores--they come in the usual colors--white, bisque, and black, with an applicator like a nail polish brush. Or use nail polish ;).

    alouwomack thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH
  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Thanks again mama goose. I especially like those brackets I have because they mimic the color I painted my cabinets, plus they have a little bit of a rustic feel.

    I just had my first cabinet guy come by earlier. I explained my "cubby hole" request and he quickly suggested I do a long shelf (@ 12" depth) starting next to the fridge & turn the corner as to end basically where my upper cabinet stops at the left side of my sink . . . AND with iron brackets too! Lol!

  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Oh, he also suggested adding a few shelfs to the right of the sink . . . in the same manner as the other shelf. However, he was not very aggressive about offering dimensions for where to hang the shelves, etc., so I am a little hesitant about using him for the job. If I'm paying someone to do the work, I want them to be confident and also interested in the job. It kind of felt like he wasn't either one.

  • alouwomack
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    I have tried a few times to write in detail about my current project tonight without it successfully posting. Hopefully these few pics post and I can elaborate later. Thank you all for your help!