Good info Jeri! Because I don't employ any gardeners... Just me! And I'm also back in school for my PT doctorate, work and intern at 2 local hospitals. Kids are grown so I'm focusing more on things that are important to *me.* :) Gardening is my zen. :) Most of the time. I was thinking of trying to learn espalier. Maybe the obelisk is a way for me to learn some espalier techniques without committing to a full espalier? Maybe it's way harder. Hmmm. It really is spectacular though! I like fluffy soldiers. :)

Cori Ann, I've got a couple of those Kinsman tuteurs that Jackie mentions. Ha.Ha. Fortunately, or not, my climate here in the PNW is more amenable to creating pillar roses. If you're okay with the look, and your climate allows, you can grow some sprawling, but moderate sized once blooming/reblooming HPs on tuteurs by pruning back after bloom and loosely twisting the canes around the structure and tying with stretchy ties. I let some shorter canes fly free and blend with the rest of the bed. I grow an unidentified pink HP this way and have done so with other HPs like Souvenir du Dr. Jamain. I rather like the loose, cottagey look. The canes break into oodles of bloom when they're wrapped horizontally or at an angle or arched in any way. I do retie a couple of times per year but nothing fancy. Other flexible modest climbers and medium arching roses (think Abe. Darby, Felicite Parmentier, Botzaris, Jacques Cartier, etc) are workable, too. I highly recommend the extra large Kinsman rose pillar. Expensive but very high quality and durable. It's a birthday wish list caliber item for me. A big woo-hoo kind of present. Carol

Does anyone know if those obelisks are each covered with just one rose bush... or are there more? It looks like there might be two climbing up some from some of the photos, but that seems like planting too close and like too much weight for one obelisk... ??? Has anyone ever been to see it in person?

I found this blog entry about the park and how the French tie their roses with a sort of wicker tie. So fascinating! https://therosejournal.wordpress.com/category/la-roseraie-du-val-de-marne/

.. a garden I've always wanted to see, so near yet so far... my obelisks are probably less than half the size and width, and I think they've planted maybe 3 of the same around the base... I think they're spectacular and put my little ones to shame, but who could cope with all that?..

Cori Ann,

...you asked to be enabled, so here are some of mine, rather more size appropriate for what I have to work with here..... I hope they encourage you to explore further, I love obelisks and sometimes I think if they are decorative enough, you don't need to grow anything up them at all.

..this one of the left below is a better quality structure, and I'm waiting

for the pink rose to climb up it, although I have Clematis there too..

..this one below is new this year, it's about 6 foot and I have 'The Generous

Gardener'... 'Baronne Prevost'.. and Clematis 'Burma Star' - all planted in

the same hole I'm afraid, with the obelisk... I shall keep The GG pruned

as it's likely to grow much taller.. 'BP' I have twined around horizontally,

but I didn't expect much from it this year...

Thank you so much Portland! I will check all of those roses out now! And the obelisks!

OMG Marlorena!!! I am inspired! Those are just lovely! Wonderful! Absolutely beautiful!

Marlorena, the enabler!

One rose per pillar in my garden, Cori Ann. I like to plant the rose inside the tuteur and fluff the canes out and around. This keeps the roses quite vertical and saves space on my postage stamp lot where real estate is precious. Marlorena's multi rose tuteurs are lovely!

Carol

Of course above is R d l Hay! My one year old Alexandre Girault has filled out the obelisk already. Jackie is right the roses chosen probably need to be smaller than my choice.

Sheila's garden. · More Info

I think they look stunning on those obelisks, but don't doubt they require a lot of maintenance. It appears that there are multiple roses planted around the base of each one? I have an 'Aviateur Bleriot' that would probably work perfectly like this. It was given to me by a friend, and I expected it to grow like 'New Dawn', that it could be grown as a large shrub/rambler. Well, that's not the case. As it is, it's basically a ground cover, it's long, flexible canes hugging the ground, radiating out from the center like a flattened octopus. I bet it'd require a pretty big structure though.

-Chris

Cori Ann I think it would be fun to try what you want to do, I grow climbing pinkies up 3 tall post on a arbor and yes it requires some work of tying up canes and so forth but it's worth it when they bloom in the spring. I say go for it and have fun, you will never know until you try it for your self. How many obelisks do you want to attempt?

Roses are regional.

If any of you on the west coast have frequent flyer miles, you might want to visit the rose pillars that line the entrance to Roses Unlimited.

They use the metal that are broader at the base and then narrow upwards in a solid metal ring. Some roses do better than others. (And RU doesn't have staff to tweak them into perfect shapes.)

You might want to ask them which they recommend if you have growing conditions anything like their zone 7 hot and humid conditions.

Sheila those photos are just absolutely exquisite. That must have been such a special trip! I hope to go someday, but I keep spending all my vacation money on my garden. :) I will have to vacation in my backyard for a few years.

And your Alexandre Girault is definitely devouring that obelisk isn't it? It's lovely and healthy though! Good to know. I will need to choose a smaller rose than I originally thought.

Chris I agree. They do look stunning, don't they? They're inspiring. I found a big structure on hayneedle. It's the same size as the extra large Kinsman, although it's made of iron and the extra large Kinsman is made of steel. Ironman or Superman? Who is stronger? :)

Boncrow thank you for the encouragement! I think I'm going to start with 2 really big ones. The higher the rose the closer to heaven! :)

Good points Stillann. I haven't used Roses Unlimited before. I have been really happy with Antique Rose Emporium though. And made my first order with Rogue Valley Roses recently.

I am always so impressed with this groups knowledge!

I think 2 to start with sounds reasonable. Have fun with it and good luck choosing roses! Please keep us updated on what you choose and post pics!

These look amazing! I love the interest the vertical growth adds and think they could be used in a lot of places less formally, if one wanted. Some of the Autins that can be grown as climbers would be perfect as they're smaller, depending where you live, of course. The only way it could look more romantic (in a formal way), is if they had swagged a chain between them and wound some canes around that.

Well I decided to try 2 eight foot obelisks. With everyone's help and expertise on this forum... I now believe I can do it and am informed of the challenges! So thank you, thank you. I'm going to use roses that aren't really climbers since most roses grow lanky long and tall in my climate. They will still probabaly be 6-9 feet tall... well that's the plan anyway!

I'm going to use a Falstaff and iceberg on each. But not climbing iceberg. Regular iceberg.

I found 3 falstaffs recently at Armstrong nursery. They were already 6 feet tall, but just looked Ok. I pruned anything iffy off and to my surprise, after just a week they are blooming and looking happy! I wasn't expecting much from Falstaff from others posts, but I think it likes it here. It has me excited and I want to give it a showcase spot. They're each now about 4 feet after pruning. The seem like they will appreciate an obelisk to hug. Not sure what I'm doing with the third Falstaff yet. Probably experimenting!

I already have a red and white theme so Falstaff and reliable iceberg will go well... and Marlorena's photos definitely helped to enable me.

With my weather still being in the 80s and 90s, I think they might even get a few feet taller with blooms before Christmas!

Wish me luck and look forward to red and white fluffy soldiers wishing you happy holidays. :)

Please post some pics of them growing as well as blooming. Where did you finally find such large obelisks?

Will do. I found them on hayneedle. http://www.hayneedle.com/product/borderconceptsgiantobelisk.cfm

They are less expensive, and most likely lesser quality than the Kinsman, but I figure I need to earn the right to buy those. I will practice with these first. If I do well and enjoy it, then I will reward myself with a Kinsman... although it sounds like a climbing rose in my climate would just yank it apart! So no *climbing* roses on obelisks in my area. :)

I think your red and white fluffy soldiers are going to look beautiful!

If you are looking, I got these earlier this year. They aren't super high quality, but they seem ok. They have some other ones too.

BestNest Obelisks

Is anyone at your house handy? My husband made me several obelisks out of copper pipe. Several trellises, too. I am very happy with them. Here is one with a freshly pruned rose, the copper finally beginning to turn verdigris.

Dingo I like that those obelisks are steel and 8 feet. Thanks for the recommendation!

Rosefolly I am the handy one at the house I'm afraid. My husband is wonderful, but just didn't grow up learning how to do handy things around the yard or home... While I grew up on a ranch with 3 brothers.

How nice that your hubby made those for you! :)

Rosefolly I also love your use of hogwire fencing so you can enjoy your beautiful view!

For anyone who is also going to try to do this... I found some videos on espalier helpful to give me tips, educate and prepare me for how to train roses to an obelisk. Some are actually for espalier to a wall, but the same rules seem to apply. I liked some of the hints, like to identify the main canes with a little piece of colored ribbon. :)

Training Climbing Roses at Peggy Rockefeller Rose: Garden https://youtu.be/Dpr1VFkOSPg

Training with Heirloom Roses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hG0wamcyCc

How to pillar a rose with Paul Zimmerman (he's very entertaining): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5rLjzkg7Zg

I did it! Falstaff in the back. Iceberg in the front. Didn't prune them from the before photo, but they're about 1/3 of their height from tying them down. They're my prisoners! Falstaff is really flexible. I was able to manhandle him without snapping one cane!

Before... (East Falstaff)

After...

Before... (West Falstaff)

After...

Before... (both)

After...

Here's some more photos from the side and up close. It's my first time ever doing obelisks so this is NOT a "how to." More like a "learn with me." :)

West Falstaff and Iceberg (right) gets a little more shade. Currently has 9 buds. :)

East Falstaff (left) gets a little less shade, The blooms he has were initially a little faded and crisped because I had him in a different spot with too much sun. Another under appreciated workhorse Iceberg filling in from the front. :)

Cori Ann, how wonderful this is and will be a dream come true!

You can see a little more about my Falstaff's here. http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/4211551/falstaff-as-a-climber-happy-in-zone-9b#18525639

Although, I'm going to keep updating *this* thread instead of that one going forward. Just to have one consistent place to update photos and such. :)

Couple of notes and tips for other newbies... it's really hard to tie with gloves, but it got easier with my second obelisk. Use work gloves that are as tight and tacky as possible. Experiment with different knots too. I tried to do the knot from the French garden a few times. Had no idea what I was doing, but it still worked.

Also...The more "careful" I was the harder it was... and the more the canes reared back and smacked me in the face. The more I manhandled them and decided I didn't care if I broke them, the easier and faster it went. And I still didn't break any. :)

Supplies I used:

A roll of gardeners green stretchy vinyl tie tape. It was thick, either 1/2 or 3/4". I counted the main canes I wanted to tie and pre cut the vinyl into about 10" strips.

Gloves (tight and grippy/tacky seemed better)

Sunglasses (I should have used goggles for safety, but didn't)

I was going to identify the main canes with ribbon, but couldn't find my Christmas box so I just didn't.

If you do this too... post pics! I will keep updating mine as they fill in..... And as I probably buy more obelisks and do this again too. It was fun! And it's going to be so gorgeous!

...they look good... it's going to look fabulous... I can see you're a fast worker Cori...

Have you decided where you're placing the remaining Falstaff's?Mine bloomed beautifully and fairly dark in morning sun and still had fabulous fragrance. The blooms started in full sun. Only cane growth since I planted her out, but she's in heavier shade with the sun moving more behind my trees and house in the Fall.

Haven't quite decided yet, but I still have him in full sun. He's the smallest of the 3 and has the fewest blooms. I think I'm going to leave him there to see if the sun helps him grow a little taller over the next couple of weeks while I try to plan it out. Unless he suddenly develops a bunch of blooms. Then I will move him so I can enjoy their darker coloring. :) I like your idea of just morning sun. I also really like the contrast of the darker red with white. I have a couple of ideas. :)

Obelisks are growing in faster than I expected for fall! A little rain then back to 80-90 degrees is making everything grow super fast, even in the shade.

In the same beds are Nepeta (catmint) and different types of thyme. New roses (Chrysler Imperial, Archduke Charles). Transplanted roses (Iceberg and white carpet) and some white freesia bulbs right next to the stone wall that should come up in a couple months.

Dogs enjoying Falstaff and Iceberg at nose height.

It's all coming together!

Poor Iceberg doesn't get enough photo recognition. It's common, underappreciated and consistent beauty.

I'm loving this post. I can't believe how great everything looks already! I'm at a loss for compliments. :)

Thank you vaporvac. Things grow FAST here as long as they get water. Which is why I take Jeri's original warning about how much work these could be very seriously! As well as all the other recommendations to choose the right type of rose for obelisks. I think in California, climbing roses need arbors (or buildings) to climb. Whereas, obelisks and trellises really are better for lanky roses that aren't really climbers, since they kind of morph into climbers here.

Water is the limiting factor in my garden. The drip irrigation helps. But I'm super interested in gray water systems and so glad I have seen other people bring that up recently. I have pitchers lined up at each faucet to catch the water as it's heating up so it doesn't get wasted down the drain. It would be great to also be able to use the gray water! That way I could grow more roses. On more obelisks. I really like this so much.... I think I'm going to try to do smaller obelisks (loosely) on almost every rose in my garden. :)

Wonderful, Cori Ann! Carol

I have some work to do to get them trained and prune them back into shape after getting very busy over the summer, but if I get to it this fall/winter, I think I will have quite a show this spring! Thank you everyone for helping me along with these obelisks. I really love Falstaff and Iceberg together. It has been about a year since I put them in now...

Wow they look fantastic!! I love this thread . So many great photos. There is a local antique store who sells some that may be more for clematis or just decoration but I love the look and want to try too ! Yours are looking great !

Looking good, Cori Ann.

Of course, in future you could save yourself some time, and just plant one rose bush and paint some of the blooms...

Perhaps that would actually be more time-consuming, now that I come to think of it. Never mind...

Emily Litella

That’s funny Emily. That’s actually why I love a different rose, Archduke Charles. The way it changes from whitish pink to deep dark red always gets me humming the song Painting the Roses Red. ;-)

Virginia, I was reminded of "Alice" too! So enchanting, Cori Ann.

I myself love the obelisk idea,but if I ever get around to doing one, I'd prefer to keep it kind of "messy",not so neatly trimmed as the L'Haye ones; I'd let some branches fountain out ,for example. I like the way Marlorena has hers : not too neat,allowing some of the attractive metal structure itself to show. Yours are looking mighty good, Cori Ann! Also think you chose wisely; I, for one, would never try to keep Alexander Girault-or any "real" rambler- on an obelisk; they just get too big. Some of the repeat-flowering ramblers,like Super Dorothy or Super Excelsa,would probably be OK, though I doubt I'd try for more than one rose per obelisk, unless it was a very big obelisk and the roses in question were more like those "patio "climbers or ramblers, that shouldn't go over 2 meters in height.

Thanks Bart_2015. Even though those obelisks are hhhhuuuuugge, neither of the roses I used on them are truly climbers/ramblers. Iceberg is the bush version and Falstaff can be a bush too, but here it seems anything can be trained as a short climber. I think a true climber or rambler would end up being much too much work here on an obelisk!

I love Marlorena’s too. I’m going to let Iceberg fountain out at the base, while I train Falstaff nearly around them to the top. That’s the plan anyways! ;-)

Bart, that's right. I put the Alexandre Girault under the obelisk without knowing what I was doing. I took an obelisk off Francis Juranville and set it by the side of the rose, allowing access to the plant's crown after I discovered better what I was doing here. I can wind canes around but still get at the rose base so much better. I agree that formal overly manicured look is not as romantic or attractive to me either. What was the worst at RD laHay in Paris was the pruning of the OGRs. I was so disappointed with how they looked, I thought the garden must have had a redo or problem. I later gathered, that was just what they did there, vs London and England in general where they looked so much better left more natural. I will probably have to cut the obelisk off Alexandre, or the plant off to take the obelisk off down the road.

Cori Ann, the Iceberg & Falstaff pairing is lovely.

Sheila I really like GWorld Joe’s YouTube videos on how to cut away roses from obelisks (and retrain them if that’s what you’re planning). There’s 4 videos on obelisks and more on training to a fence and many others.... https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCHRdvCu4ByJfqIyfLTUsonw

I'll have to take a look at those videos. I myself did something far, far more mistaken than trying Alex. G. on a tripod,Sheila; putting Rene Andre on a path with the idea of training it over an arch. HA! Somehow I didn't take into account that Rene A. can get to be almost 7 meters tall,(or maybe I got it confused with something else), and in any case I didn't take it's growth habit and thorniness into account...fact is, I've wound up with a wild thorny mess with which I just can't cope! I 'm not even going to try to move this monster; I'll just take cuttings and then chop it down. Likewise I learned the hard way that New Dawn ,in my climate, is a thuggish behemoth that should be regulated to out-of-the-way areas of the garden where it can be left to it's own devices. You chose wisely, Cori-Ann,in avoiding true climbers/ramblers. In hot climates things can just get so big. Another example:Louis Mon Ami. On the Lens Roses site, this is described as being of " croissance modérée, indiqué pour couvrir poteaux, clôtures et treillis." Height: 300-400 cms. Hohoho ,what a joke. In my garden it's become so huge that it can't be contained on a structure at all; I've tried planting a Paulownia tomentosa tree sort of under it, hoping that the tree will grow fast and big enough to support the rose. I was thinking of trying this with Rene, too, and put a cypress nearby, but the fact that this unruly rose is on a path has made me change my mind.

Since I'm training a climbing iceberg on a French tree guard, I have to ask why you chose the shrub iceberg.. A question - do your vinyl ties stay in place forever? Or do you untie and tie again periodically?

Hi Kitasei. Shrub Iceberg gets to be 6-8+ feet tall here easily.

Climbing Iceberg would have taken over. I have climbing icebergs on archways and structures with roofs... where they can really spread out.

I only put mine in last year so I will see this year how much I need to retie. I plan to untie and retie periodically.

Kitasei here’s an example of climbing Iceberg here (just a year of growth... just put them in last year). Not a great photo, but you can see the difference. I have cut these arches back A LOT each month since spring.

On an obelisk here, that would just be a mess. I’m sure in your area and climate it’s totally different though.

I love Iceberg for all of the prominent areas of my yard and to combine it with other more flamboyant roses. I have them all over, like end caps between other roses. It’s constantly in bloom here, even during our long, dry, extreme heat.