My90 YO FIL was in the attic today, for what reason, we don't have the slightest idea and he lives alone. I think men especially, need to feel "alive" by not changing their routine and certainly not b/c of fear. It keeps them going while those of us who watch bite our nails to the knuckles. I think the only thing you can do is say how much you love them and fear that they might be hurt even though we know they are being very careful (last phrase is absolutely important). It reassures them of their capabilities. I think they are scared but they're confronting their fears. Telling them they're not 17 anymore probably depresses the heck out of them.

If he's going to do it anyway and it would improve his safety, then I might. BTW, my 92 yo FIL still flies his own plane. I don't think he will ever give up flying until he physically can't climb up into the cockpit anymore.

Ugh. I sympathize. My 82 yo Dad just drove from NY to FL. I probably wouldn't buy it because my Dad wouldn't use it. He would think it is easier to drag the ladder around than to set up the platform.

I wouldn't buy an elderly person anything that could possibly encourage them to tackle chores that are too dangerous for them; in fact, I'd be finding a way to remove that ladder from his home if at all possible. I had an elderly relative die after falling from a ladder. Thankfully, this made an impression on my 77-year old father and he is very much aware of his increasing physical limitations. Could you find a way to encourage investment in a young handyman instead?

My dad is 84. His health is stil good but his judgement is zilch. I moved all the ladders to my ex-dh garage down the street. Dad's car is too small to go get them. This makes him madder than Yosemite Sam (including wanting to shoot someone), especially after he discovered the neighbors were not allowed to loan him theirs.

So, no. I would not if he has already fallen and/or stayed out long enough to get heat stroke, etc. Those are signs of no longer having the judgement to still do everything safely.

Having the house projects and acreage along with the various projects are most likely key things in keeping your dad alive and vital.

I Would not get the platform - who will be assembling and moving it?

when the day truly comes to eliminate ladders, your family will know. For now, let the man have his interests

cattyles, if he's made it to 84, He must have some wits about him. I'd worry that he'd do something desperate like a make-do ladder and climb on something really dangerous. But it is tricky situation. Some elders fake their capabilities while others are treated well under their abilities and you almost need a crystal ball to figure it where your loved one is in that continuum.

I wouldn't get him anything else and I wouldn't stop him from doing what he's doing if he's not in danger of hurting someone else. I think as I get older my preference will be to do what I enjoy even if it means I might die a few years earlier. I'm more into quality than quantity. I'd rather die doing something I enjoy rather than while I'm just sitting around doing nothing but waiting to die.

My mother was quite a smoker. I used to try to get her to quit. She finally reached an age (maybe late 70s or so) where I decided this was one of her few pleasures in life and it was time for me to stop pestering her. She enjoyed good health until she began to decline shortly before dying at age 84.

Obviously, we're all going to be giving opinions that are based on the people we know and the experiences we've had. There are no right or wrong answers here, and the OP has to do what she feels best in her own situation. It's not easy, is it? My dad occasionally admits to me that some things he used to be so comfortable doing now make him nervous, and I think that's normal for many people as they age. Heck, I'm "only" 54 and I'm much more cautious about a number of things than I was just ten years ago. My heart goes out to my dad when he talks about how he feels he's less "sure and steady" than he used to be. I know that's a tough admission for him, and it's hard for me to hear him say it too. The little girl in me still wants my daddy to always be there, strong and capable of anything.

Did he ask for one? If not, I wouldn't get one. He might regard it with suspicion and disdain, thinking that YOU thought he needed a safer ladder because he was getting feeble. And no way would he admit that.

I lost my father to a fall from a ladder when he was only 47 so this is a heartfelt topic but at 84, your father's mental well being is almost more important than his physical well being because an elderly person who looses their sense of purpose can wilt away much quicker than an elderly person who hasn't.

Obviously, your dad's path to happiness is his acreage, his home, being the caretaker of it and yes, feeling useful and having purpose. This seems to be really key for people of his generation. So if at 81.5 this is what brings him joy or makes him feel whole, I would do what I could to help make it as easy as possible for him, but in a supportive way. It's his world and I can guarantee that if you take it away or make him feel as if he's less than able, he will change and deteriorate. I saw it happen with my mother as well as with many of the patients in the nursing home I worked in many years ago.

BTW, Have you seen those platform ladders up close? We have one and those buggars are heavy!

Thanks so much for all the feedback. I can relate and empathize with all of it! As I suspected, this is one of those damned if you do and damned if you don't situations but it seems as tho the "Don't do it" camp is the majority. I've decided to NOT buy it. I don't know if that's the right answer or even if there is a right answer.

All of us have tried for years to get him to hire someone to do these type chores. As some of you mentioned, it's what keeps him going AND he's too frugal. I could spend an hour writing about all the injuries, accidents, heat strokes but he keeps going. His response to "Dad, you've go to stop this, you're going to kill yourself" is "I spent 8 days lost in the jungles and swamps of Vietnam, 7 of those with no food. I can handle it". (sigh) It's almost like he likes to suffer just to see how much he can tolerate.

texanjana, if your dad can still pass his physical and maintain his license at 92 then God bless him! I'd be more than a little apprehensive tho :o We had our own plane while dad worked as a commercial pilot out of DFW and we lived in east TX. He flew back and forth to work. My brother and I both had our licenses. I just had one little problem...I didn't like to land lol So it wasn't something I pursued long term.

I was in a hurry when I started this thread and forgot to include the picture of the platform. And here is a picture of my beautiful parents two years ago. Dad 79 and mom 75. I didn't inherit their "young looks" gene :(

This part of your depiction bothers me:

Has he ever fallen? A few times. Between falling and passing out from heat strokes and a myriad of other (nearly daily) injuries, it's only God's grace that he's still with us

So to me this means those responders who are saying to let him do what he wants to are in effect saying "Aw, just let him kill himself - he'll be happier that way."

One like this I know (currently 92 and last I heard still operating a business) fell while on a ladder awhile back and I doubt it was pleasant. Especially since I got the impression it was one of those situations where he got caught in the ladder. Many years before that I was at a doctor's office and for some reason they left me to wait in an exam room together with a young man who had had just this kind of fall. That is his leg and/or foot had caught in the ladder resulting in twisting or fracturing. At the doctor's he was on crutches and had come back because the pain relief program they had him on wasn't doing it. I got to sit in the small room and listen to him moan, even start to cry out for attention before things moved along - this was one uncomfortable individual.

I went over while on a ladder myself one time when finishing a hedge with hand shears - and landed with the shears open and on the ground right next to my torso. If things had ended up positioned just a little differently one or more of the blades could have gone between my ribs. I had no control at all, there was no feeling of flying through the air and having a chance to prepare for the landing whatsoever. Instead I'm up on the ladder and then bang! I'm on the ground.

A one and a two.

Up, down.

lukkiirish, I'm so sorry you lost your dad at such a young age :( This is just an attachment that hooks onto the ladder. I can't find the one that I found last year. It might have been on Shark Tank. I'll look there. You know what...I'm just gonna ask him if he wants one and then re-evaluate the situation.

Thanks Monica, I've never seen those before but it looks cool. My sister (who is 49) just fell from a ladder too and shattered her wrist! So you're not unwise to worry..I would just approach the topic in a way that is supportive. Just say you saw it on tv and would like to get it for him as a Xmas gift. (Or if it's returnable, just buy it as a gift and say it can be returned if it doesn't work for him)

What a beautiful picture, you're so lucky to still have them both. My dad passed many years ago (he also fought in Vietnam LOL) but we just lost our Mom this past July. She was 84 and her nickname was Bunny (as in Energizer Bunny) because no one could keep up with her. I really do understand your concerns.

Find out if maybe there are some safer types of ladders you could get him, like maybe an "elder ladder??" Anyway, I feel your pain. My dad has terrible judgement and practically tempts fate by having all kinds of hazards around the house and insisting everything is fine. I have come to the conclusion that I just have to accept his choices. He's not senile or impaired enough yet for me to take conservatorship and he'd fight me every inch of it anyway so it is what it is. My dad's judgement is impaired, but not impaired enough , , , sigh. He has a guy who assists him and goes over what is in the house and helps somewhat. He takes this guy's advice more readily than his daughter's. I just try to discourage him from overdoing it. I tell him over and over again that I don't want him to quit doing things, just scale back and have realistic expectations. My dad just gets exasperated and says he knows his limits. Well, sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't. I try to steer my dad to projects that aren't so intensive that he could still enjoy. Any chance your dad could take a young man from the neighborhood under his wing and "mentor" him? My dad was lucky for a while because the neighbor kid liked to work for him, since dad didn't ask him to get up and around at any particular time, which was something he could never do at a regular job and kept getting fired from them. He was a good worker and was very good with my dad. If you could convince your dad to hire an assistant I think that would be the greatest thing.

your disgusting reply etc.

Actually I would say your post epitomizes those features that you are attempting to assign to my post.

And to me.

monicakm - Your dad's eyes look like there is still a lot of life and intelligence in them.

Sad story - The mom of a friend of mine was, at the age of 76, up on their boat house roof cleaning out the eaves. She had been having dizzy spells and wasn't supposed to be doing any climbing or going up high. Anyway, she was up there, fell off and died instantly - all in front of her husband.

I have to say something here. I am an advocate for people reintegrating from nursing homes back home. I cannot tell you how often I am the mediator between my client and their families. The families, of course, want to protect their loved ones (my client). My clients feel like they are being treated like children often. Sometimes they take advice, sometimes they don't. At the end of the day, I advocate for their wants (even when I also tell them things safety-wise they don't like). When they are clear-headed, all you can do is advise, let them know you care about them, then sleep well knowing you did the best you could do and that they are capable of making their own decisions even when they are different that what you would choose for them. It's the hardest part of my job.

I think this is a good time to remind everyone to make sure you and your parents/loved ones have your end of life/living will/advance directives all squared away. My perspective, from someone who has worked large emergency depts and trauma centers is this: a fall for an elderly person has consequences that are different than when that person was younger. Most of the time, the result is not immediate death. Often, a fall results in injuries that cause permanent life changes. Sometimes, the fall precipitates a slow, heartbreaking decline of quality of life. This ends the independence the person once enjoyed and puts a heavy burden on the spouse or children. Sometimes, a person ends up in ICU and even on the ventilator. If they have not made end of life choices themselves, this leaves the family to make gut-wrenching decisions that cause guilt and trauma whether you continue "to do everything" or allow a natural death.

I'm not trying to be a buzz kill or dominate my dad. But once our parents lose a certain amount of reasoning and judgement, should we not do all we can to keep them safe? Did they not do this for us before our reasoning and judgement was sound? Is it really dousing my dad's spirit and manhood to keep stuff off his floor and keep him off a damn ladder?

Great points cattyles. This is why my job is so hard. And I will admit I protected my own mother like no tomorrow.

Thanks cooper. I've seen families going through horrible situations and decisions.

monica - your parents look great! They are such an attractive couple.

pinkmountain - my dad started smoking again last year after quitting for 15 years. I don't say a word.

ETA - oops, that was 3katz that mentioned her mom smoking.

10 ft. Reach Fiberglass Podium Ladder with 300 lb. Load Capacity Type IA Duty Rating (Comparable to 6 ft. Stepladder)

http://thd.co/1wYWItY

If this is they type of ladder you are referring too, yes I would get one. I picked up the 9 foot ceiling one and really like it. It is super light and the platform is great

if you really want a good outside ladder, I would suggest a 3 leg tripod orchard ladder

BUT. I would encourage dad not to climb any ladders. I used to remind my dad that should he or my mom fall, he would have to choose between living with me or a nursing home. Boy did that change his mind about thinking it was okay to have mom stand on the rotten wooden roof of the 100 year old leaning shed... having to live with me....

also, show dad they new thinking in fruit trees; ground picking height. Even commercial orchards are going to shorter more densely planted trees. They save money on work com and liability insurance. Have happy crews and get more fruit. Check out the Dave Wilson Fruit tree website. I have cut down all of our trees to easy working height and I am not 81.5

Monica, what beautiful parents you have! I know how hard questions like this are. My Mom is 82, not in good physical health, and we go round and round on safety issues. I want her to lead a full life, but I know things can change in an instant, from a simple error in judgement, as cattyles said.

I'm sure you tell yourself this already, as I do: no matter what we do, and how much we try to protect them, things happen. And if something does happen, it's not because of a lack of caring or thoughtfulness on your part (obviously.) Sometimes I wear myself out trying to make sure nothing bad can ever sneak into Mom's life from any direction, and then I have to redirect myself a bit. (Sometimes she redirects me too, by smacking me in the head.) Holy cow, it's so hard.

Thank you cooper, for this sentence: "When they are clear-headed, all you can do is advise, let them know you care about them, then sleep well knowing you did the best you could do and that they are capable of making their own decisions even when they are different that what you would choose for them."

I sympathize, as my father was stubborn to his last breath. When he came home from the hospital and discovered he no longer had enough abdominal muscles to sit up in bed, he wanted me to tie a rope to the closet doorknob. He just KNEW he could sit up if he just had a rope ....

As to the original question, I don't think that platform will do what you want. We have one. I use it on our A-frame ladder to hold my paint can. But the thing is, once you were to hook it onto the step you want to stand on, there is really no way to climb over it to stand on it. At least for me, maybe your dad has long legs. But for me , I couldn't possibly get from the step below, up onto it. It sticks out too far. Even on the sturdy A-frame. I wouldn't even think of attempting it on a regular, leaning ladder.

The problem is that, in most cases, the choice is NOT give me liberty to do what I want no matter how dangerous or give me a quick and hopefully painless death doing it. It's that the elderly stubborn hard case is going to cause him/herself enough damage that it will then become the family's enormous burden to take care of him/her once the inevitable emergency ensues. And that is IMO the core of the selfishness exhibited by all these old folks who refuse to admit they can no longer do what they want, and who are determined to pretend they aren't old.

We went through exactly this process with my MIL. She was insistent she could and so what she wanted to do. After her third(!!) hip fracture caused by refusing to acknowledge her balance and physical abilities were fading, we were told bluntly by a case worker that if she showed up in an ER with another fracture the doctors would be required by state law to report us to the elderly abuse hotline.

And that is why she is now in assisted living, still insisting that this is the most awful fate that could ever befall anyone and that she is perfectly able to go home and live just as she wants to. The woman can no longer walk unaided because of the damage caused by her falls and her dementia has progressed to the point at which she cannot retain a thought longer than 30 seconds. But by god she is just fine to be living independently, at least if you ask her.

No matter how invincible you think you are, at some point if you have anyone in your world who is going to have to take care of you or bear the brunt of your foolishness, it's time to give in. Sadly as many of these stories illustrate, selfish and stubborn elderly people are all too often adamant in refusing to face reality.

The hardest thing for me to deal with regarding my dad is that he often insists on doing things in such a convoluted way that even a younger person would not want to go to all that trouble. No matter what I say, dad will contradict me. Last week I told him that I was going to Lansing to go Christmas shopping (a town an hour north of us) and he said I should go to Ft. Wayne (a town an hour south of us). No matter what I suggest, he will argue with it. That is some kind of mental disability, but is it senility? An academic friend once told me that there is such a thing as "old man brain" which the symptoms are being ornery (well I'm paraphrasing it, but we used to joke about it being a "real thing" from a scientific perspective, not just our certain parent's personality). Of course my dad never was a flexible thinker. I know of other folks who are much more prudent and wise about how they plan for old age. My best girlfriend's folks are a study in contrast. Her in-laws are textbook examples of how to age successfully, and her own family is quite dysfunctional. And she is a social worker specializing in elder care! But her own family refuses to follow any good advice. Her father in law managed a nursing home for a living, so I'm sure he had plenty of opportunities to observe what could happen and learn from other's mistakes.

I agree this is at the heart of the problem (family repeatedly bearing the brunt of the consequences of medical downturns.) For me, anyway, as the primary caregiver. Having just survived another medical crisis (still in the process of discharging home health care, returning oxygen equipment, etc) this thread is timely and helpful. We're moving forward with investigating alternative living options. We are fortunate because the cost should be workable, but it's still a super tough time and complicated issue. My heart goes out to everyone on the same road.

Ipinkmountain - that's what my mom is like. Constantly contradicting me about everything including how warm it is outside.

cooper - I know how hard you people work having been part of the system with my mom who has Alzheimers. The difficult part is that you tell everyone what is needed and what to do and then you leave. The patient mishears what you said and starts having hissy fits because they can't do it their way. The family, which is already under stress because their parent is falling apart in front of them and they know it is their responsibility to keep it all together, aren't trained to keep it all together. They don't know how to speak to their parent to get them to cooperate or to think clearly or to understand what is going on. And then you have those family members with their own issues with siblings and spouses and children who are still at home or who need emotional support as they're trying to find a job in a lousy market.

In the past two years my mom has lived with us 3 times for a variety of reasons and we just moved her into a Memory Care facility two weeks ago. Those private facilities are incredibly expensive and we're just fortunate that my mom has money to pay for this for 2-3 years.

That's another stress for families is the cost of this care, any type of partial or full care. If parents don't have the means then what happens? Parents become warehoused or living with children.

OP: Your dad is a looker (and still has a great sparkle in his eye) and your mom is drop-dead gorgeous for her age! A beautiful couple.

At age 73, I'm pretty close to the age of parents you are discussing. And, of course, I went through this with my own parents. I tend to be in the camp of if they don't have dementia and if it won't hurt someone else, let them do what they will. It IS their life, and yes, I know as a child, you will be the one to pick up the pieces. But it's very hard to have a child treat one AS a child. I am very aware of what I can and cannot do and am not averse to asking for help. But still my children criticize my choices (Why do you need a new kitchen? Because I WANT one and can afford one!). It's not pleasant.

Every single morning when I wake up, I lie in bed planning my day. It is always filled with errands that need to be run, and projects that need to be done around the house. By the time I have gotten out of bed, taken my meds, made my bed and gotten dressed and gotten downstairs, I'm short of breath and exhausted. Of course, VERY little of what I planned gets done. I HATE it!

The spirit is willing but the body is weak...

blfenton,

I actually follow up with my clients for six months after they go home. And of course, when I close their cases I always tell them I'm not changing my phone number. Some cases never seem to "close", but that's okay with me. Also, I am pretty blunt during feasibility meetings and tend to point out downsides they hadn't even considered. It is hard. I don't want anyone to be blindsided. I also dealt with my mother with Alzheimer's and I have to say it's a whole different ballgame when the person has dementia or other cognitive deficits. In the majority of those cases I actually advise not to go home (but I will assist with a more appropriate placement, not in my scope of work but the hospitals/nursing homes are pretty uncaring for the most part). I also am strongly opposed to family picking up the cost of any care. They have lives to live, children to support, and retirements to save for. Some of these meetings are not pretty. :)

I really don't think of my dad as a child. I think of him as a fellow adult and why he insists on over-extending himself makes no sense to me. I would get help with difficult chores in a New York minute if I had the time and money to have a "hired hand." At any age!