Diane, that's interesting about Valerian. I grew it in another garden decades ago (feels like yesterday), with no problem. So that explains it. Lisa commented that the flowers looked different, but I hadn't noticed that, but then I suspect I'm not that observant.

Kelly, I've seen your comments and your 'likes', but don't feel we've been properly introduced! So 'Hi', and Happy New Year.

Trish

I have admired your Love Song in other posts and it's just gorgeous... I think I have seen it in your yard with echinacea as well? Or maybe daisies? Every post about Love Song makes it sound perfect for this hot and dry yard. It will most likely end up in one of the hottest parts of my yard after I get a chance to see how next summmer goes. I really wasn't planning to do this blue area so soon, but the canes on this dormant Blue Girl are almost as thick as bananas so I had to buy it. I think it will be ok on the north facing fence with some shade. It's much better suited for the north facing fence than Himalayan Blue poppies. ;)

And those peonies... they look like sherbet and I just want to eat them!

Cori Ann, Love Song does well in the sun, and the blooms hold up nicely, especially for a lavender rose. If LS has a weakness, it's slightly tender in the cold, and that's not a problem for you. Peonies were kind of off topic, but flowersaremusic mention liking to grow some of he plants needing chill to bloom. I just wish the bloom period was longer, plus they often come into bloom here when the heat hits, and that shortens the bloom time even more. Sometimes I just harvest the whole crop of Sarah Bernhardt peonies if a wind or heat wave is predicted. It's better than nothing at all.

Kelly, I was going back over some of the posts on this thread, and I saw your question about where to get hollyhock and poppy seed, so here goes: my hollyhock seed was passalong seed from a friend, and has gone through many generations of blooming. I thought the gene pool might be getting depleted, so this year I ordered some seed from my favorite seed purveyor, Swallowtail Garden Seeds. They have a wonderful selection of HH seeds, including some of the new fancy ones (not cheap, but neither is anyone else). Swallowtail also has a great snapdragon seed selection, plus many other flower varieties.However, their poppy selection is not the best, so I have purchased poppy seed from Renee's Garden Seeds. They have both the grape and dark grape. If you want that really dark purple, get the dark grape. I also get some great seed from local sellers, so take a look around town for seed, too. Once your poppies have bloomed, let the seeds mature a while, then gather the seed. You may never have to buy seed again. Be sure to gather HH seed, too. Both these plants like a big chill before germinating, so sow the seed in late winter or very early spring. I also sow HH a second time, and get bloom right up until December. The blooms come in waves. Have fun in 20017 sowing your seed. Diane

Lauren's Grape Poppy (the lighter flower)

Lauren's Dark Grape Poppy, the darker versionGrowing in front of Rosemoor Clematis

If it was about a month earlier I would have bought a bazillion seeds from swallowtail based on your recommendations! But after today... I'm pooped. I inoculated and put in all my seeds this weekend. We actually have 10 days of unexpected rain coming next week so I wanted to get them in ASAP. I fell asleep early watching hockey last night... and after a week of partying in Mexico I was totally ok with that. But since I missed out on NYE it made me want mimosas to make my gardening chores more fun this morning. Fun they have been... but I have a feeling the seed placement may be a little less structured and a lot more bohemian. :) More champagne anyone? Regardless... it made the chores more fun! That's what this is all about. Freeze warnings are over and spring is coming soon to California. That's reason enough to have another glass of champagne right? Happy New Years!

And peonies are totally NOT off topic. The colors and habit accentuate roses so well. I am so jealous and wish I could grow them here! So post as many photos as you wish from the north. I love them. Maybe it's the perfect circle globular look they have... but they look like desserts. They look so amazing with irises, roses and other annuals. Absolutely love them.

At the rate hybridizers keep coming up with hardier plants, you may be growing peonies in CA not too far in the future, Cori Ann. They did it with lilacs, so peonies can't be far behind.

I think I Have shared this before, but it is one of my favorites. ..

ITHO

maybe they will find a repeating gene. .. although that could spell trouble. My rose addiction would then include peonies, too! I bought a collection of blue repeating irises and this past fall was the first time I got a repeat. (I've had them for 3-4 yrs). Only the white and yellow repeated though. Not what I expected in a blue collection.

I do like this one, even if it doesn't end up repeating. ..

Here is my Yellow peony again with one of my favorite plants. It's called anchusa-I think it belongs to the borage family but is a perennial. Only problem is I am very allergic to the hairy foliage. ..

Those are beautiful peonies, Kelly. I love yellow ones--is yours an intersectional cross by Ito or is the name of the plant Itho? Just asking because I love the yellow one called Bartzilla (I think). Just don't want to spend the money right now. Your iris is gorgeous, as is the anchusa. I think yellow and blue and yellow and purple are some of the best color combinations......Did you see my answer to your question about hollyhock and poppy seed sources? I hope it helped. Keep the photos coming please. Diane

itoh-intersectional hybrid. They have a lot stronger stems and larger flowers than most garden peonies as they are a cross between tree and garden peonies. This one was labeled singing in the rain but I think it was mislabled. I ordered online since the intersectional peonies are so expensive at garden centers here- upwards of $80 to $100... one would think they would be less expensive as they have to be divided very frequently once they get to be a few years old. (I think yearly is suggested if I remember right.) I have another one going on 7 yrs that hasn't bloomed yet. I moved it to a better spot last year so hopefully this will be the year it blooms. Thank you for the seed sugestions. The oriental poppies are available here but hate my clay. I love the dark grape ones! I also love yellows and oranges with blues and purples.

It's getting cold here, all next week -12... love seeing the pictures to remind me that this weather won't last forever (although by February it seems like it)!

The yellow/blue and yellow/purple combo looks great in your yards! I totally love admiring it. I won't do yellow in mine, but will admire the combo in yours from afar. ;)

Have you seen this? I like this site a lot for design ideas. Here is a design with soft yellow and purple, including roses, peonies, irises and others. So pretty. https://www.gardenia.net/garden/Bearded-Irises-and-Companion-Plants-Soft-Yellow-Purple-Theme

-12?!?!???? All week? I'm in denial that's even possible. I'm so sorry. I'm such a wimp. You cold weather gardeners are so strong. I would curl up and die. Or at least hibernate until warmer weather returns. I bow down to all of you cold weather gardeners!

Kelly, I love that purple and yellow iris, and your peonies. I hope you're right about them becoming available for warm climate gardens. I'd never heard of intersectional peonies before. I've got a few iris, some of them supposedly repeating, but not a flower so far this season. I live in hope, especially after seeing your photo.

Trish

Kelly, I hope to have one of those Itoh peonies one of these days. Yours has beautiful shading. Diane, the first year Northland had Coral Charm peonies, they sold out in the blink of an eye.

I was going to say..... I'm not sure the repeat blooming irises would do those of us in colder climes much good, as our growing season is too short for the iris to make it's second bloom..... Then, I finished reading Kelly's comment. She got a 2nd bloom in zone 4. However, a cold climate doesn't necessarily mean a short season. I'm in a snow belt, so the growing season is 125 - 130 days for my area - really short. Probably not long enough for irises to muster up that second bloom. I need to research this. Here's my favorite iris, unfortunately showing off the formerly untamed area behind the garden.

Cori Ann, I'm all for hibernating.

i haven't had time to read all of the comments carefully, but will, and am looking forward to it. I did want to contribute the suggestion to look at Penelope Hobhouse's old book, "Color in the Garden" (I hope I am remembering the name right) and the section on REDS.Years later I can still picture the combinations - and especially the impact of adding blacks to reds. Like adding smoke to food. It gives it the umami. And grays. She has a lot to say about the effects of different light on colors. Thanks for all the pictures everyone posted. Garden porn:)

Flowersaremusic, what a beautiful, elegant iris you've got there. It has just the right amount of color, not to mention such subtle shading. Do you have a name for your iris? Sorry to read of your short growing season, but it doesn't surprise me at all, given your northerly latitude.

Cori Ann that page you linked was wonderful. The yellow/purple examples were so lovely. My favorite iris on the page was that ethereal one--Edith Somebody. I should have jotted down the name, but like you and yellow, I have banned iris, gorgeous as they are, from my garden.

Kelly, I love your last photo with more yellow and blue. Yum. We need to convince Cori Ann that a little yellow belongs in her garden.....The purple poppies I grow are not oriental ones, but opium type, bread seed poppies, and are annuals.

A peony and some snow

Sarah Bernhardt peony, an old classic

Evelyn and Sarah Bernhardt peoniesSnow! The mountains out back.Hmmm,looks like someone died in an igloo, trying to tough it out last night.

Wow, flowersaremusic, that Iris is impressively and majestically frilly, with just the right colours to show it all off; what is it?

You are giving me plant envy again Diane! Pretty sure my microclimate is too warm for peonies (they grow in the Dandenongs about 30 min drive away - so near but so far) but I'm determined to try the poppies again. I don't feel as bad failing with annuals, somehow; its not like I'm cutting their lifespan much shorter after all....and I've seen them grown in Adelaide, which is hotter and drier than here.

Wow, the pictures in this thread are wonderful. Helps me get through another brown/grey rainy day here. Last year I started a 'Sunset Bed'. When my yard was dug up, a spot that had native hickory trees and other plants, some invasive, removed, I was left with a large swath of blank space that bordered the west edge of my yard. It's also on a slight incline. I decided to plant mostly yellow, apricot, orange, red, purple roses. Everything was planted last year. I added some mini hollies, gardenias and burning bushes for evergreen interest. Everything is still small, but doing well (which was a challenge in our drought filled hot dry summer). Here are some pics. This is St. Patrick, Twilight Zone and Lady Hillingdon.

Dark Desire, Playboy with Crepescule in the background

Belmont Orange is in the front by the street. It was really red this fall.

Here is how the bed looks from the street. I am hoping for more blooms this year now that everything has established. I don't have many companion plants and I'm going to add some climbers at the back of the bed for vertical interest. There are some irises that volunteered, they are orange with nice seed heads, so I will let them stay.

Flowersaremusic I would love to know the name of the iris too if you know it. It is gorgeous. Irises rebloom for me, but I really can't take any credit because I kind of neglect them. I think it's just this area of California. Some reblooming irises seem to bloom year round here.

Curdle that's why I'm growing peony poppies too. Peonies can't grow here, but peony poppies are pretty darn close! Plus their tap roots help to break up the soil and move nutrients around. I'm using quite a few annuals for that.

Nanadoll I should disclose I actually do have a little yellow and orange... as I have citrus trees. :) WA navel orange, cara cara orange, Eureka lemon, marsh grapefruit, clementine and Meyer lemons all add some yellow and orange. With my color blocking OCD, I did put some creamy yellow roses near them, but they also have some pink. All American Magic, Homere, Mlle. Franziska Kruger and Jesse Hildreth. I have thought about Mitsouko too. So see.... I like light, creamy yellow if it has some color changing qualities or some pink with it. :)

Photo collage of my "citrus" bed. So I do have a little yellow and orange. (None of the photos are mine... all taken from the internet to make a collage that helped me envision and design)

If some other Delbards ever become available here I will snatch them up too, and they have that same type of yellow. Like Claude Monet, Paul Cezanne and Edgar Degas.

Buford your idea of a sunset colored bed is great!

Cant think of a better thing to think about on a grey rainy day than a "sunset bed" . Unless its a "blank space" bed of course..

It will look wonderful this spring! Would love to see more pics of Dark Desire and Crepuscule together when they get more advanced- something about that colour combination just seems like it would work brilliantly.

I have a thing for Ranunculus- one supplier had what they called a sunset mix, which was a collection of different shades of orangy yellowy and deep red flowers. they went nearby the daffies and the nasturtiums.

Although I don't do the sunset colors orange and yellow... I can enable those that do! Can you both grow dahlias in your areas? I remembered these gorgeous design ideas for sunset colors, showcasing dahlias. These could look stunning in a sunset bed...

Gold and Vermillion Theme: https://www.gardenia.net/garden/Dahlias-and-Companion-Plants-Gold-Vermilion-Theme-1

Hot Color Theme: https://www.gardenia.net/garden/Dahlias-and-Companion-Plants-Hot-Color-Theme

and for those of you who can grow peonies (so jealous)...

Gold and Deep Red Theme: https://www.gardenia.net/garden/Peonies-and-Companion-Plants-Gold-Deep-Red-Theme

In hotter areas where peonies won't grow I guess you could always just swap them out for roses of the same color to keep true to the themes. Enjoy!!! ;)

This spring will be year 3 for my rare Majorcan Peony. It's pretty much the only peony suited to warm winters. It's Paeonia Cambessidesii.(I may be wrong on the spelling) It doesn't have the double blooms that I long for, but it's pretty. It was on my wish list at Annies for about a year before it was finally in stock. It did bloom last Feb/March. I hope this year it will really wow me. Lisa

I have never heard of this peony... just looked it up. Whaaaattt? Peonies with no winter chill? Wow! Please post photos when it blooms this year! Annie's is of course out of stock... but it looks like it was $35 for a little 4 inch pot after a waiting list of years.... so yeah.... we are totally crazy in California.

I'm looking forward to your photos Lisa. :)

Oh Buford what about hot red pokers for vertical interest? They're so crazy looking with their ombré color fading and there's lots in sunset colors.

Yes, that's what I paid. I couldn't help myself. It is a long lived plant and my only opportunity to grow a peony. I still have it on my wish list at Annie's, just in case I want another one. The last time it was in stock, they sold out in one day. So if any of you warm winter friends want one, I suggest putting it on your wish list and ordering the moment it becomes available. Lisa

The peonies in my yard are probably over 50 yrs old at least, so dividing $35 by that helps a bit! Peony foliage looks so pretty with roses and doesn't die down after blooming; I planted two last spring and hope to get some blooms this year. Go for it!

Diane and Cori Ann, that iris has been in my garden so long, I've no clue about the name. Last year when I was hoping to get everything labeled, I looked through iris catalogs thinking something would fan a spark of memory, but nothing. I'm wondering why you have banned irises from your garden?

Cori Ann, I could almost smell the orange blossoms in your collage. I wish Delbard roses were easier to find, too!

Diane, I know! my growing season is pitifully short. It helps to get a head start but I am awful at starting indoors. I am trying winter sowing this year, starting late January. Your Sarah Bernhardt is prettier than mine. Fluffier. I also saw the rabbit in your snow photos - it just hopped right out at me.

Buford, a sunset garden is something I'd never thought of. I mostly use pastels, but have found that to be boring, so I've added some dark colors like Munstead Wood, etc. and always lots of blue/purple rose companions. I like your combinations very much.

Thanks everyone. Carolann, thanks for the suggestions, I like the idea of red hot pokers! I do have beds that are just 'cool' colors, and other bed with 'hot' colors, so this one is a combination. I also have Golden Celebration and Darcy Bussell together in a small bed by my mailbox, I think the combo is exciting.

Curdle, yes, I am hoping to see that too. The Crepescule started out as a one gallon plant and quadrupled in size. I've had it before, and I love the way it grows crab like almost like a ground cover. It didn't bloom that much this year, but I am hoping for nice spring flush.

I have grown dahlias before, even before roses. I might try them again.

Flowersaremusic, that's too bad you don't have a name for your iris. Maybe you could go online and check some iris websites for clues. Does your iris produce new tubers (?) quickly? Iris love it here, and enlarge their patch so quickly, I needed to always divide which I didn't want to do--don't have the room. The other thing was that every time the blooms would be looking their best, a big wind would come along and bloom them over. I get so tired of tying up stuff. And lastly, iris bloom time is so short. In a larger garden that would be fine, but not in this small space. Things have to be in bloom for a long period of time to earn their bit of real estate. Peonies are an exception because I have just a few and they don't spread out and demand frequent division. Also, peonies' foliage looks good for the entire season. Just my crazy reasoning, I guess...... How are your snow worms? I still can't get over those things. Maybe they'll reproduce.

Cori Ann, I love the pink and yellow rose in the largest photo in your last collage. Which rose is it? The whole grouping is wonderful, but that rose really stood out.

Buford, you have chosen some great roses and good combinations for your new flower beds. I can't wait to see them develop and fill in next year. Twilight Zone really pops. It's a favorite of mine--it does start slow, but give it time, and TZ will wow everyone. Yours looks good already, but it will get a lot taller.

Yes, vaporvac, peonies do last and last. Ten years ago, I received some tubers (is that the proper name) for peonies that were a friend's father's plants. He will be 100 this April, and I think he got starts from his in laws. So if the in laws were growing these plants in the 1920s....you can only guess how old they really are when going back to the original plants. Who did the in laws get there peonies from? It boggles the mind. Unfortunately, I think my plants are losing vigor in my garden, so I'm not sure what to do. Diane

100+ Year Old Peony

Another Oldie probably Festiva MaximaMy Karl Rosenstadt peonies which bloom really early and start the chain of purple blooms in my garden.Karl looks more wine colored than in these photos.

Diane those peonies are awesome. The story that goes along with the 100+ year old peony is fabulous!

That rose is spectacular isn't it? It's All American Magic. I actually really wanted Degas or Monet from Delbards Painter series, but of course those aren't available here... and I saw this one at Regan's when I was there for their sale. It looked pretty close. I didn't buy it at first, but then another on gardenweb (I think Ann?) who lived near me convinced me with her photos and high recommendation that All American Magic is a great rose in this area. So I drove back out to Regan's when I was in the area for work... and now I have 2. :)

Yes! It was Ann. Here's the thread. You can see Ann's awesome All American Magic and Cynthia's Edgar Degas. And a bunch of Beth's lovely roses that are similar. :)

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/4274506/calling-beth-or-anyone-else-all-american-magic-vs-edgar-degas?n=14

Diane, I've spent hours online trying to identify that iris. There are so many that look alike, my eyes were crossing. It does reproduce, but I only divide every 3 to 5 years. I give away and toss out more than I keep. I have some of the peonies you have - Sarah and Festiva and Karl. Wonder what your 100 yr. old one is?! Pass-alongs and volunteers make me happy. Love getting a rose cutting from a friend or relative.

I am annoyed this morning with my peony poppies, sweet peas and lupines. Any gardeners who have tried these with their roses have any advice for me?

Should I do anything different this year or next year? Or am I just being a picky person?

Some of my peony poppies are doing great.

But most look like this.

Some are even more pitiful.

My lupines are all stuck at about 2 inches.

And my sweet peas are all over the map. Some are doing well and growing (on the left), but some are just sprouting now (on the right).

Any advice for me or should I just drink my coffee and be happy?

I am coming up on my third year of growing lupines. I bought a innoculant last year I hope it helps. The lupines March to a beat of their own drum.

first yearsecond year

Obscurity...This is what is intriguing about lupines.

They teach us that every plant serves a role. Lupines are the number one food of the Blue Karner butterfly.

I haven't figured out what conditions the Lupines need.

So I have stayed out of their way. Each year I seed start more of them till I figure it out. They don't use an association with fungi. 90% of plants do. I put the lupines in 20 different spots to see where they like it best.

Sam you must start them indoors in zone 4 right? So no trouble transplanting them? I sowed mine directly in the ground. Maybe next year I will start them separately instead. And do you grow them with your roses or in a separate area?

I am trying to get them to grow near the roses but I don't think they want to grow near each other. Yes I have trouble transplanting a little shock. I think they want their own area.

I think they might die every 2 years and reseed

starting Lupins indoors
second year in May
my grow lights

Thank you Samuel! :)

Give them time? I like to think if there's nothing going on above ground, its because a plant is growing nice big roots to get them through hot weather...either that or they are just lazy. Never tried lupines; only tried poppies once and they didnt germinate.

Sometimes sweet peas are a bit slow to start off - then you turn around and there is lateral branching going on all over the place! I was growing a batch of them behind the roses out front, but decided plant elsewhere this year, as they ended up trying to take over and almost strangling poor Charles Darwin (who hasn't been doing very well lately). As he's now on shovel probation, I thought it was only sporting to give him a chance without also having to do battle with sweet peas.

I've been reading up on sweet peas lately, because apparently its possible to get 9 months worth of them here, by staggering plantings of short/ long day varieties. Been setting up trellises all over the back yard fences, being sure to make them a bit larger and stronger this time, as there were a couple of collapses last year...

They seem to like a fair bit of water when they're little, but can get by on much less (and take more heat) than you would think once they get bigger.

Color scheme planning:

Nope. I'm going for the overstuffed cottage look and it is definitely not color coordinated all the time although I do try to pair sometimes.

Thanks Curdle. I will probably start sweet peas much earlier next year. I like your idea of staggering seeds. I may try that too. At the weird rate mine are germinating and sprouting they may be staggering themselves a little this year!

This may sound ironic but I am an artist/painter and work with colours. However, I don't really "match" my garden colours. I don't have a large yard and although the matchy "designer" looks may seems more sophisticated, I like the natural blend of rainbow colours in gardens. However, that may change if I will redesign my backyard. I may try to plan ahead and co-ordinate more but still have that natural look instead of the "designer" look. I always believe that gardens should have a "natural" look, a balance of the wild of nature and the creativity of humankind.

Cori Ann, I think direct seeding of poppies is the best. The foliage does go bad after blooming too. They are glorious, but that foliage gone by look puts them into the daffodil group where you have to leave them there to mature the leaves and seeds, but it is unsightly. Santolina or lavender, here, or euphorbia always look good. My nepeta and geraniums also get ugly during winter.

Thanks Sheila. The poppies seem to have been a favorite with the birds so most of the ones I direct sowed got chomped. The ones I started separately grew, but have that yellow foliage already on most. They just don't look happy. We will see. If I like them I may have to do a mixture of direct sowing and starting them separately. I hope I like the look of them.

My nepeta gets ugly in winter too, but I just cut it back and it springs right up. It's one of my favs.

I don't think the annual breadseed poppies foliage looks bad after the plants bloom, and the seed cases are really neat. I don't leave the foliage up for too long either, and I let the seeds ripen further in my garage, so they're not in the flower beds all that long. I don't care for nepeta much. It starts out nice looking, then flattens in the middle. Then you cut it back, and it looks bad for a while longer. My catmint tends to flop a lot, too, as the season progresses. But my kitties love it. Diane

Nepeta is a weed in my garden. I initially planted a lot of it because I wanted to fill in with something inexpensive and big until I could decide what I wanted to plant. Taking it out wasn't easy because you have to get every bit of the roots. I apparently didn't because it keeps popping up all over. I don't think I'll ever be free of it. I wouldn't call it invasive, but it does spread by underground runners. However, it's often listed as a good rose companion. Might just be my zone where it goes wild.

This is a very old thread but I'd like to revive it as I try to plan my companion planting.I am very fond of the cool colours,and am a little crazy about roses that fall into the lavender/violet/true deep purple. I'm focusing a lot on blue companions. However I wonder if in the future I'll find that I want to add more contrast.

So here's my question for those who care to answer: how do you decide on colour combinations? Do you plant a lot of violet/lavender/ purple roses together, and then use companions to add contrast? Do you try to keep your rose beds sort of all in one colour range, or have you found that it's best to mix it up more, and maybe tie it together with companions?

Bart, I plan almost nothing when it comes to annuals, perennials, and combining colors. Plants that survive our high summer heat, like the sun, and that quail, in particular don't eat, determine what prospers in my garden. I have lots of other varmints that eat what I grow, especially deer and sometimes voles, but those blasted quail, literally hundreds of them around here, are by far the worst. Things are mixed up and nature ties it all together and nature is an artist, as far as I am concerned. I highly recommend penstemon, which no critter eats here, plus this plant likes the sun, doesn't need a lot of water, and some varieties produce offspring, which always seem to look and perform like the parent plant. I also grow lots of lavender with zero care. Pollinators love lavender and penstemon, and so do the hummingbirds. Other favorites, partly because they reproduces and plant themselves and love the heat are echinacea. rudbeckia, Jupiter's Beard, none of which need much water. Others I love are snapdragons, purple poppies, and campanula. The poppies are annual, but do reseed and produce lots of seed you can gather. Snapdragons are short lived perennials in zone 7 and up, and also do some reseeding, producing interesting offspring. Snaps don't mind the heat, no matter what the experts say. The critters love some campanula, but I still manage to grow a few, and this stuff is also good in heat, no matter the experts. All these plants fit in well with roses, and the roses fit in well together. Diane

I grow a lot of this one. Red Rocks. I also like Pike's Peak Purple.

A little brighter. I love this one and can't find it anymore--Pina Colada Red. Hideous name.

I want more of this. Pristine Blue.

Oops. Above photos show penstemon. I grow many more types. I know UK has some beautiful penstemon available, but I don't know about Europe. Diane

Bart, I'm glad you revived this post. It was a delight to re-read comments, especially from those people that are no longer on here.

Diane, lovely penstemon. I wish they liked me.

As for companion planting, I do both - contrast and similar. For instance, I put salvia Mystic Spires next to a bright yellow rose, and am going to transplant some orange perennial wallflowers to my sunset bed.

My biggest problem with perennials is that some are thugs and many are wimps. Lots of salvias have become thugs. At present, I'm loving the So Cool series. Nollie in Spain put me on to them, so hopefully you'll be able to source them. Mine haven't stopped flowering since I planted them in Spring, and it is now late Winter. I also have salvia Purple Passion, which is also a tiny leaf like the So Cools. Trish