willcheryl

Do greige paint colors look more gray with oak and warm colors?

CJ
3 years ago

Hi. I'm choosing a greige paint color for my living room, Probably Sherwin Williams Stucco 7569, or BM Manchester Tan. We will have a golden oak floor, and the neutral walls will be adjacent to a medium toned olive green wall. Do these greige type colors pull gray when put by warm colors? I'm deciding on a warm neutral, but I wonder how the future golden oak floor may affect how they look. Thanks.

Comments (30)

  • CJ
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Anyone?


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  • chloebud
    3 years ago

    You might also look at SW's Canvas Tan...a warm neutral.

    CJ thanked chloebud
  • CJ
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    The Sherwin Williams Stucco looks absolutely nothing like the visualizer on the website. I have SW Garden Sage in my kitchen, and that looks nothing like it either, using the online visualizer. Neither color looks anything like the colors on their visualizer.

  • CJ
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    What are the undertones in Canvas Tan?


  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Do these greige type colors pull gray when put by warm colors?

    We need a clean state to start figuring this out. So, humor me:

    1. There's no such thing as "greige"

    2. Undertones are not objective, they are subjective. Which means the theory of undertones is utterly useless. Undertones mean nothing to anybody except the person choosing to describe their personal color experience using the word undertone.

    3. You are right, can not look at color chips online to determine what they look like. Online color is the additive color space - colored light is emitted to your eyeballs. In-real-life color is the subtractive color space - colored light is reflected to your eyeballs. Two completely different experiences for the vision system.

    We will have a golden oak floor, and the neutral walls will be adjacent to a medium toned olive green wall.

    So, you want to find a "neutral" paint color to harmonize with the golden oak floor and adjacent medium toned olive green wall, right?

    Is that medium toned olive green SW 7736 Garden Sage that you mentioned?

  • CJ
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Lori, Yes. I have a Garden Sage wall, which I love, it's a large vaulted wall that spans the kitchen and living room. The kitchen is Garden Sage too. So, the neutral paint color will have to harmonize with both the adjacent green wall, as well as the golden oak floors. The room is north facing and does not get a lot of natural light. This room seems to make most colors look quite gray. I'm not looking for a super warm neutral, I'm getting rid of cream and caramel colored walls, looking for something warm, but more neutral. Accessible Beige looks completely gray in the space and not warm at all. SW Stucco looks like a good neutral for my situation. The color will also be in the foyer, stairway up and down, so a large open area. None of the areas get a lot of natural light. Thanks for any advice.

  • PRO
    JudyG Designs
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    B.M Manchester Tan is the same as B.M Berber White. They are the same, with different names. Just a FYI. Neither is a “greige”.

    For a good neutral with oak floors, try something with a green undertone, like B.M November Rain.
    “Greige” is more like Revere Pewter, or its twin, Elephant Tusk.

    Or it’s triplet, Alaskan Skies


    B.M, duplicates many colors, using many names. Why? Not sure, but I bet it is a marketing ploy for regions. I see Manchester..okay, I live in MA. You see Alaskan Skies…you live in Juneau…not sure about the Elephant Tusk, but I bet someone using Ralph Lauren’s pieces, might be drawn to it.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Lori, Yes. I have a Garden Sage wall, which I love, it's a large vaulted wall that spans the kitchen and living room. The kitchen is Garden Sage too.

    I can see why. Very pretty color.

    So, the neutral paint color will have to harmonize with both the adjacent green wall, as well as the golden oak floors. The room is north facing and does not get a lot of natural light. This room seems to make most colors look quite gray.

    Great info.

    I'm not looking for a super warm neutral, I'm getting rid of cream and caramel colored walls, looking for something warm, but more neutral. Accessible Beige looks completely gray in the space and not warm at all. SW Stucco looks like a good neutral for my situation. The color will also be in the foyer, stairway up and down, so a large open area. None of the areas get a lot of natural light.

    More great, specific info. You're making this too easy. :) Give me a minute...

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    B.M, duplicates many colors, using many names.

    JudyG Designs I agree that every now and then you will find colors that are so close one could call them duplicates - it's crazy pants! But I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the list above. The colors differ specifically in lightness value, light reflectance value (LRV), and chromaticity.

    However, they are all super close in terms of hue family - takes a really good eye to see that. I'm impressed. :)

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    3 years ago

    SW Stucco looks like a good neutral for my situation.

    I agree. Altho Manchester Tan and Stucco are close in many ways, Stucco has a lesser degree of grayness compared to Manchester. And grayness seems to be a concern. (grayness is quantified in terms of chroma highlighted in light green)

    Also, Stucco is just a snidge closer to Garden Sage in terms of hue family. (highlighted in orange) Which could translate in the space; the harmony between Garden Sage and Stucco will probably look a snidge more refined than it would be between Garden Sage and Manchester Tan.

    Plus, it's logical that if you love how Garden Sage looks with the oak floors, it's likely you'll like how Stucco looks too - because they are closer in terms of hue family.


  • chloebud
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    CJ, to me Canvas Tan is very neutral without any sneaky undertones to speak of. It was recommended to me for that very reason.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    We can add Canvas Tan into the comparison. I didn't include it because compared to the other colors it has the lowest amount of chroma - as you can see highlighted in green in the chart below. Again, chroma is the quantification of how we perceive "grayness".


    CJ said, "The room is north facing and does not get a lot of natural light. This room seems to make most colors look quite gray." That's a big clue. What that means is colors with a higher chroma number have a better chance of being what CJ is looking for because they aren't as grayed. Canvas Tan doesn't have that - it has the lowest chroma number compared to the other colors in the chart.

    Which is why I didn't include it at first.

    But it's not that far off, so maybe it is worth considering?

    without any sneaky undertones to speak of

    Every color belongs to a hue family. Nothing is sneaky or hidden under anything. Hue family comes directly from the wavelengths of the color itself - hue family is a piece of spectral data. Unlike undertones, a hue family notation is not just someone guessing about what they think they see in a color.

    When we have hue family notations, we can plot colors on a color wheel. It literally draws a picture for us so we can see how the colors compare in terms of hue family and overtones. Overtones are different from undertones.

    All of the colors we're comparing are located in roughly the same area of the yellow hue family and we can see how they relate to Garden Sage. Stucco has more chroma than Canvas Tan and is closest to Garden Sage on the color wheel.

    Validating CJ's opinion that Stucco looks like a good neutral for her situation.

    CJ thanked Lori A. Sawaya
  • chloebud
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Lori, that's interesting info regarding chroma...I had no idea. One reason I mentioned Canvas Tan was based on seeing it in a couple different homes where it worked so nicely.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    @chloebud, what a color looks like is just as, if not more, important than the spectral data. If you understand the dimensions of color (hue, value, and chroma) then it's not only easy to communicate what a color looks like but it also makes color easier to manage. Like, you can drill down grayness specifically.

    This is one of my favorite quotes. It's a good reminder that what a color looks like matters a lot and we can't color by numbers alone.

    CJ thanked Lori A. Sawaya
  • chloebud
    3 years ago

    Very nice...it definitely is the way it looks!

  • CJ
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Lori, I find that very interesting! So, actually Canvas Tan and Stucco are quite similar. On your color wheel it looks like Canvas Tan is closer to Garden Sage than Stucco, with a higher hue number, but the chroma of Canvas Tan is lower. I'm sure either of these two neutrals would go nicely with the green, and the oak floors. I could also decorate with most any color, using one of these these nice neutrals as the background. I like pops of warm red, orange and yellow, with the green. I think even a warm gray would work in the area. How does the north facing natural light affect the paint color? You are very good teacher! I appreciate it more than you know.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    3 years ago

    So, actually Canvas Tan and Stucco are quite similar.

    Yes, they are. Canvas Tan is just a snidge more grayed than Stucco.

    On your color wheel it looks like Canvas Tan is closer to Garden Sage than Stucco, with a higher hue number, but the chroma of Canvas Tan is lower.

    Yes, absolutely correct. You get it.

    I'm sure either of these two neutrals would go nicely with the green, and the oak floors.

    Definitely.

    I could also decorate with most any color, using one of these these nice neutrals as the background. I like pops of warm red, orange and yellow, with the green. I think even a warm gray would work in the area.

    Yes, about the pops of color. A color that is more grayed (a "warm gray" as you say) AND from the same hue family neighborhood as Garden Sage, Stucco, Canvas Tan would totally work - because it's from the same neighborhood.

    And that's exactly how knowing hue families and plotting them on a color wheel guides you to colors that go together - or in your specific case, guide you to the right "warm gray" to harmonize with Garden Sage, Canvas Tan/Stucco.

    How does the north facing natural light affect the paint color?

    Exactly how you've experienced and described. North light is dim, it is not very robust like a southern exposure that's bright.

    So, you need paint colors with a good amount of chroma to bust through the dimness of north light. Or in other words, you need colors that are not too grayed down. That's why what you said, "The room is north facing and does not get a lot of natural light. This room seems to make most colors look quite gray." , is exactly right, made perfect sense.

    You can use a color from any hue family in a north facing room. The key is to get the right LRV and amount of chroma. In color expert terms that's called nuance. LRV + Chroma = Nuance.

    In a color expert nutshell, the goal for a north facing room is to find a color with the perfect pitch of nuance to partner with a north quality of light.

    Hope you find your color. :)


  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Take a peek at SW accessible beige.

    She's already tried Accessible Beige. OP said, "Accessible Beige looks completely gray in the space and not warm at all."

    The only way to solve this mystery is to test a range of colors on the wall.

    Sorry, but I have to disagree. There are smarter strategies for specifying color for the built environment besides shuffling paint chips and/or buying samples armed with nothing but a flair for color and blind hope that you'll stumble on one that works.

    Knowing what those strategies are and how to apply them is the difference between extraordinary color expertise and everyone else.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Ok, you could be right. So, take a swing with your lighter approach. What range of color samples should OP go buy and why?

  • CJ
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Lori, Where do you get the hue and chroma numbers? Do you refer to a website? And where do I find the color wheel? To me this is fascinating. It enables you to only buy a couple samples, instead of having to buy lots of random samples. It really helps the directionless. This is awesome education about color.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Like I mentioned before, how a color looks matters a lot, it's not just about the numbers.

    Extraordinary color expertise is about the art AND science of color. Curating a balanced color point of view that embraces the artistic, intuitive, and scientific is something I work towards every day. I happen to have a passion for the scientific. So I appreciate folks like chloebud and Color Zen who remind me that an artistic and intuitive approach is important too.

    Direction is actually a really good word to use, CJ. A framework of direction is exactly what spectral data (a color's DNA) provides.

    To me this is fascinating. It enables you to only buy a couple samples, instead of having to buy lots of random samples. It really helps the directionless.

    Yep, you totally get it. So many have learned how to apply LRV, light reflectance values to the task of choosing paint colors. LRV is just a piece of spectral data.

    If you've mastered LRV, you can master how to use hue, value, and chroma too.

    Lori, Where do you get the hue and chroma numbers? Do you refer to a website?

    Here's a video that shows you how to use easyrgb.com

    The hue angle is straightforward and easy to understand. You can download the color wheel here: http://campchroma.com/color-strategist-color-wheel/

    The "C" chroma value in L*Ch° runs on a scale from 0 neutral gray to 100 full saturation.

    Don't get confused when you see a capital "C" in spectral data. For example, in CMYK the "C" stands for cyan. In L*Ch° it means chroma.

    CJ thanked Lori A. Sawaya
  • CJ
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Now, since I was very curious, I painted a sample poster board of Canvas Tan, to compare it to the Stucco. The Canvas Tan appears to be more of a taupe, it appears to have a pinky tinge, so that must be from the lower chroma. The Stucco is a touch warmer, and I think it looks better next to the warm green. Even though their numbers are so close, they really do look a lot different. That was a fun experiment. I tried to take pictures, but there were too washed out to show the difference. They pretty much have the same LRV, but just slightly different tones. Thanks so much for all of the in-put. This was very interesting, and I learned a lot. I'm anxious to finish fixing the nail and screw pops on my walls, so I can get to painting. I'll let you know how it turns out. Painting full walls is the true test, large poster boards help, but I have to settle in now and commit. I always get anxious when I start painting, but you need to push through, until the whole wall is done. The color underneath really messes with how you see it, until the wall is complete. Thanks again, and wish me luck!

  • chloebud
    3 years ago

    CJ, it sounds like the Stucco should work. Is the name of the color actually Stucco or Stucco Greige?

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    3 years ago

    The Canvas Tan appears to be more of a taupe, it appears to have a pinky tinge, so that must be from the lower chroma.

    Yep. Hue shifts with desaturation.

  • CJ
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    SW Stucco 7569


  • chloebud
    3 years ago

    Thanks, CJ! Not sure why it wasn't coming up for me.

  • mandy_moo_pants
    3 years ago
    I have 2 different Benjamin Moore greiges and golden oak floors. They look more beige in my house then in my sister in laws who has light carpet and bright white trim
  • mom2co
    last year

    In the same boat. Edgecomb gray looks icy white/bluish on our walls. Im trying out shaker beige, natural linen 966 and martha stewarts buckwheat.