House is 2 story plus unfinished basement. Upper level 950 sq ft, lower level 950 sf ft, unfinished basement 900 sq ft

Austin Air took the ball and went awol so I looked at my reflection in Golden pond and this is what the reflection said. "It's the compressor crankcase heater". I can't believe you have been monkeying with this all that time and haven't asked the electrician that wired the place to come find the draw. Clamp an amp meter on each wire leaving load center. That will tell you which circuit(s) are pulling how many amps. From there it's simply a matter of testing wire and appliances on that circuit to find the short/phantom draw. Now ask how to use a meter and we will all join hands and sing ring around the rosie.

It's my ball use it when I want you too...

I'm never AWOL, just have people willing to give me green colored cotton paper that I can then turn around and exchange for other things like my own electric bill.

Ok, so onto this mysterious load... if the water heater breaker is off the magic 8 ball says this is much easier.

Typically if it's a heat hump you will have an electric furnace. An electric furnace has what are called 'strip heat'. Which is really nothing more than a restrictive wire that heats up. Given the state of the HVAC industry and skill level thereof, (the magic 8 ball) says he would put all his chips in on a bet that a heat strip is shorted and just stays on all the time.

Usually a heat strip will draw around 20 amps, one that is shorted could potentially draw half or some where around that.

There are other possibilities, but that is where I would start and don't use your fingers as testing devices. (that's why it costs green colored cotton paper.)

The power company only checked what they installed which is the meter. Their policy is that if they check things installed by other companies they might be blamed for. The guy told me he is not allowed to touch things including hvac that don't belong to his company.
The hvac guy looked around to see what I have that could draw the power and found 2 light bulbs, door bell, and smoke detector. No way that these items could consume that much power. I did asked if his heat pump was cross-wired (or wired incorrectly) which he responded no cross-wired there. He checked the refrigerant level, turned on/off the AC/heat and told me the heat pump is fine and that it must be something else.
As mentioned in the OP, there are no appliances and no water heater. The house is under construction.
Would strip heat still run even when the heat function is turned off?

If something is not wired properly or shorted then anything is possible. Klem1's suggestion of isolating the cause with the clamp amp meter should isolate the problem.

Any competent tech would think crankcase heater or air handler heating element. Instead he tells you outdoor lights. Stupid.

House is under construction; HVAC should be switched ‘Off’
at the breaker(s). Could be construction equipment, such as, cube heaters,
electric table saws, radial saws, ceramic saws, compressors, chargers for
cordless tools etc.

As suggested, turn all the breakers ‘Off’ and turn them ‘On’
one at a time while watching the meter. The utility meter will tell you where
the problem is; it’s rare that they are wrong!

Initially he told me it's the door bell and smoke detectors because they're connected 24/7.

Little work was done during those time. Painting and yardwork were the main jobs where roller was used for painting and outdoor outlets had no power yet.
I did turn the switch off for the heat pump and saw the meter flashing speed dropped to almost stop. I then turned the heat pump switch on and saw the meter flashing increased real fast. This is where I started recording the meter. As mentioned in the OP, with the heat pump switch off average rate is 7.7 kw/day, and with the heat pump switch on average rate is 40 kw/day.

Thanks every one for the advice. It appears that it's something to do with "strip heat", "crankcase heater or air handler heating element".

strip heater and air handler heating element are the same thing ^^

you can isolate the problem to either the interior unit or the exterior unit by killing the breaker on the exterior unit, check your meter after a day using the numbers you found above. Another way would be to check which unit causes a high draw using an amp clamp at the panel around the black wire for either the HVAC wiring or the compressor wiring.

crankcase heater is in the exterior unit, strip heater is in the interior unit next to the air handler.

"Initially he told me it's the door bell and smoke detectors because they're connected 24/7."

I think you need to request another tech come to your house. This one does not have a good understanding of Ohm's law.

Many thanks to everyone. As recommend by Vith I'll disconnect the outdoor unit breaker to narrow down and will report back.

The front desk told me some of their tech have less experience than that guy.

That's what you get in an installer, they don't have enough trouble shooting skills to exit a paper bag. Now the world we live in today some will probably be 'offended' by that statement. So if you prefer the eloquent term of 'stupid' you can use that in a pinch.

It's unlikely it's a crankcase heater, usually those have the draw of a light bulb... not a strip of heat. A crankcase heater isn't heat you are intended to feel... just those lonely rodents on a cold night and your poor little compressor who is going to get his wires chewed by the cold and hungry rodent. (If you are offended by that rodent means RAT ok?)

13 amps is a big load people. Most (new) air conditioners today when running draw less amps than this. I know this is a heat pump but if it's running in cool mode it's an AC ok?

It easily could be that the strip heat section was improperly wired. Many times a series of strip heat will have multiple control wires so all the strips don't come on at once. One of these control wires may be inadvertently attached to control volt power, thus turning on the strip heat continuously as long as power is applied to the machine.

Anyone can install HVAC equipment. But that doesn't mean they should.

Magic 8 ball says: If they screwed up on something this basic and simple it's probably not a large stretch of the imagination that they did not do the more complicated things accurately.

"It's unlikely it's a crankcase heater, usually those have the draw of a light bulb... not a strip of heat. "

+1

I thought that too when I read crankcase heater. It can't draw that much!

IMPO

SR

If heat strip was on without blower running, wouldn't the air handler get really, really, really hot?

Dang I thought I read somewhere of a heat pump pulling a lot of energy when it was not running and it was the crankcase heater. Must not have been very much energy, after I looked at some other references, indeed it does not pull very much. Goes against my original thinking that any electric heating element pulls a decent amount. Apparently the crankcase heater pulls less than 100w.

Pretty much one culprit then...

Y'all made me look up how much power the heaters in my compressors use:

PRE-HEAT CONTROL

If moisture gets into the refrigerant cycle, or when refrigerant is liquefied and collected in the compressor, it may interfere

the start-up of the compressor.

To improve start-up condition, the compressor is energized even while it is not operating.

This is to generate heat at the winding.

The compressor uses about 50 W when pre-heat control is turned ON.

Pre-heat control is ON at initial setting.

[How to deactivate pre-heat control]

I think I found the source which is the strip heat. I opened the indoor unit panel and noticed it was a little warm in the area near the fan. I started touching the duct above it and felt even warmer. I put a thermometer in the red arrow as shown in the pic where it reads 108F. I assume this strip heat runs all the time and even when the A/C is on. Should it be on only during the de-frost cycle or when emergency heat kicks in? 'John' was the guy who did the wiring/installation and obviously he did it wrong. When I complained they sent 'Joe' who didn't know what was wrong but blamed the 2 light bulbs, door bell and smoke detectors. I'll ask them to fix this but am concerned they will send another incompetent tech. What should I look out for to make sure they'll do it right this time?

"suburbanmd: If heat strip was on without blower running, wouldn't the air handler get really, really, really hot?"

It will to a point. Heat strips have auto-resetting thermal overheat protectors.

“What should I look out for to make sure they'll do it right
this time?”

I would look for a licensed Master Electrician; all heat
strips should be staged and on a separate breaker in your electrical
panel.

IMPO

SR

I doubt an electrician would even touch it unless they happen hold a HVAC license. They will tell you to call an HVAC contractor.

On the talk about compressor crankcase heater some come with them some do not and just use a winding of the compressor. The heater on the compressor is only there to prevent refrigerant from condensing into liquid form inside the compressor. Because on start up, liquid refrigerant slugging the compressor leads to failure.

Imagine if I slugged you every time you went to the thermostat to turn the AC or in this case the Heat Pump.

Yeah if it's not wired right it will operate like a toaster. The heat strips should only energize if the thermostat is calling for emergency heat or the heat pump is in defrost mode.

108 F does not seem very high to me, but I have never seen a heat strip, much less owned one. What is the temperature of the area surrounding the AHU, really 75 F or is your hand warming up your instrument?

The switch of the heat pump was off for weeks. I switched it on for about 20-30 minutes before measuring temp. The AHU is in the basement and I guess room temp there is around 60's. I used packing tape to tape the thermometer sensor to the duct and left it there for about 5 minutes before turning the switch off. I couldn't access to the heat strip to take pic and measure temp.

That's 108F on the outside of an insulated duct. Bet it's a bit warmer on the inside.

The breakers for the heat strips are right there on the unit. They don't need to be moved to the main breaker panel.

Oh, thats a horse of a different color. BTW, I think I have that same model thermometer/hygrometer. I don't like it much.

The breakers for the heat strips are right there on the unit. They don't need to be moved to the main breaker panel.

These breakers are more or less used as service disconnects. If something goes wrong (as in short to ground depending on how it's shorted) it is more likely for the main panel breaker to trip first.

However, a heat strip runs on 240v meaning 2 legs of power to run normally. The strip always has at least 120v running to it (this doesn't mean it is heating in this state). BUT if the opposite end of that strip where power is not applied were shorted to ground what would happen?

As an illustration: 120v Power>------------strip-----------short to ground.

Cue Final Jeopardy Music.......

There is a breaker outside the house where the outdoor unit is but I think 1 breaker (shown above) is for the AHU and the other is for the outdoor unit. I'll go to the site later today to check.
So for the several weeks I kept thinking the 6 inch wall insulation did pretty good. I even bragged about it to friends. Some nights were below freezing but inside was warm enough that I turned the heat pump on for only a few hours during those weeks. Of course I was unaware of the heat strip running 24/7.

An electric AH plus heat pump can have up to 3 breakers associated with it, depending how many heat strips your AH has. So the outside condenser should be on it's own dedicated circuit. (These breakers I am speaking of are in your Electric Panel.)

Anything outside the main electric panel are what is typically called a sub panel or sub breaker, disconnect.

Extra credit:

120v circuit

Power 120v >---------------------------

Common 120v >----------------------

Earth Ground >-----------------------

What is the difference between common 120v circuit and earth ground?

Cue Jeopardy Music!

Is their smoke different color?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Or is it,one has more smoke than the other????? I don't recall right off hand but best way to figure out is poking around with a worn out screwdriver.

Is there smoke a different color?

funny you should suggest color... the wires are typically different colors. Usually common is white and earth ground is green.

Is that the only difference?

I would worry about wear on the heat strip's thermal overload protection from having cycled so many times.

I'm confused about smoke color you 2 referred to.
Hopefully no damages caused by the heat strip while it run 24/7 for over a month.

Now hold on here,letting smoke out of wires is scary business. You have to master baby steps before learning what color smoke is inside which wire. Besides that I'm thinking Austin's question is a trick question any how.

Trick? I asked what the difference is between common and ground?

Then someone envisions smoke coming from them... when have I been known to trick someone?

If you don't like that question why not answer the first one them?

Choices, choices --- should I grab the live wire or should I shut off power first? But how will I know if power is really off?

Magic 8 ball says: SCOOBY DOO, WHERE ARE YOU?

net420,

There is a good chance the heat strip was miswired so that it only had 120V instead of 220V (it is actually 240V but that is another discussion) powering it. Even if it did have the full voltage likely no harm was done. You can disregard the comments about smoke color. Some are having fun over your misfortune.

What equipment is this and what parts warranty are you getting? Some manufacturers require the equipment be registered within 90 days of installation in order to qualify for the full parts warranty. Make sure this is done.

“I asked what the difference is between common and ground?”

‘Common’ is the ‘Centre Tap’ on the utility’s transformer ‘Secondary’
winding & ‘Ground’ is ‘Earth Ground’ as in connected to a 'proper' ground
rod.

This is fact – not personal opinion!

SR

I paid them for the whole system including ductwork. It has 2 yr limited labor and 10 yr limited parts warranty. Both indoor and outdoor are Goodman (models posted in the OP).

220V (it is actually 240V but that is another discussion) powering it.

The official term is 208/230 single phase but in many cases the actual voltage is around 240v.

‘Common’ is the ‘Centre Tap’ on the utility’s transformer ‘Secondary’ winding & ‘Ground’ is ‘Earth Ground’ as in connected to a 'proper' ground rod.

What is the voltage from your 'Common Centre Tap' to Ground?

There is no warranty from the manufacturer for improper installation.

I do wonder about the warranty when the manufacture's dealer screwed up. It's not that I hired an unauthorized/unlicensed dealer. The dealer name is listed in the manufacture's website.

“What is the voltage from your 'Common Centre Tap' to
Ground?”

In theory it should be Zero volts AC, in reality it
fluctuates by up to ~3vac rms at our QTH.

Where are you going with all this; what’s your point?

What mike said above is good advice, call the mfg and ensure your new unit is registered so it qualifies for the warranty you deserve.

A lot of the other banter above isnt really helpful. If there is still a problem with this unit you need someone come remedy it. It appears we all know what the problem is, it just needs fixed...

"A lot of the other banter above isn't really helpful."

+1 AGREED!

table 1 in this document may clear some voltage rating issues up.

national standards

Then again, maybe clear as mud. I am looking at a (cascade refrigeration system) ultralow freezer. The box is marked 220V. The manual lists several voltages available since it is sold internationally, but the only 60 Hz rating is 220V. The sales literature says 208-230 and it is shipped with a 6-15 plug. 220V is clearly not in the table. This has a voltage control transformer and that has become common. First they showed up on the [not 120V] models. Later on the 120V models too. In the olden days, I used to see boxes on the floor next to this type of freezer. Back in the day, they were only available for 2??V service. Now you get a choice, 120 or 2??V. I've been going with the former since I concluded that operating at 208, most of the capacity of the voltage boozer is eaten up from the get-go at 208.

We are hi-jacking this thread. While all this maybe
interesting – what’s the point!

SR

“What is the voltage from your 'Common Centre Tap' to Ground?”

In theory it should be Zero volts AC, in reality it fluctuates by up to ~3vac rms at our QTH.

Where are you going with all this; what’s your point?

The original question was the common of a 120V circuit. This has to do with the electrical panel from where the circuit originates. I asked what is the difference in 'that circuit' between common and ground.

My business is in the electric panel, the utility companies business is the transformer that supplies power to the electric panel.

I asked you what the voltage was to see that we are talking about the same thing because you failed to answer the question as it was asked. (I wasn't talking about a step down transformer, I was talking about a 120v circuit.)

Magic 8 ball says: Incomplete, failed to read question as it was laid out.

I do wonder about the warranty when the manufacture's dealer screwed up. It's not that I hired an unauthorized/unlicensed dealer. The dealer name is listed in the manufacture's website.

The installing contractor is on the hook for it. Of course these knuckle heads probably have trouble changing their underwear so I wouldn't hold out much hope.

A year goes by pretty fast when they make up excuses that light bulbs and the door bell is making a 13amp load.

Now imagine if you had thought this was normal and paid this electric bill for years without even knowing something was wrong. Welcome to financial crisis 101.... the morons get bailed out and you get the bill. Congratulations.

The strip would operate at 1/4 of its rated wattage. 5KW strip would run at 1250 watts.

why don’t you just give the OP the final chapter in this mystery instead of playing games!

The OP has the final chapter as of May 2 posted at 6:40pm.

(quote) I think I found the source which is the strip heat. I opened the indoor unit panel and noticed it was a little warm in the area near the fan. I started touching the duct above it and felt even warmer. I put a thermometer in the red arrow as shown in the pic where it reads 108F. I assume this strip heat runs all the time and even when the A/C is on. (/quote)

I posted this on May 2 at 5:22 am...

(quote)

13 amps is a big load people. Most (new) air conditioners today when running draw less amps than this. I know this is a heat pump but if it's running in cool mode it's an AC ok?

It easily could be that the strip heat section was improperly wired. Many times a series of strip heat will have multiple control wires so all the strips don't come on at once. One of these control wires may be inadvertently attached to control volt power, thus turning on the strip heat continuously as long as power is applied to the machine. (/quote)

Do some quick calculation: So much for playing games. Huh? (OVER A WEEK AGO??)

Yeah you're certainly not going to like this because the TRUTH, stings like a wasp.

And no serious answers to the questions I pose? (except from suburbanmd)

This should make you wonder and pause a moment or two at any advice some of these people offer as professional.

Don't worry I know not a word of what I put here will change anything. I just do my thing and come here to drink coffee in the morning... this is merely entertainment for me.

So go out and check your light bulbs and door bells to make sure they're not drawing too much power. Oh, and don't forget that big sucker of energy the 'crankcase heater'.

God knows that thing is going to put you in the poor house and build a few power stations.

No one wants to learn anything, they would prefer to think they know more than everyone else. That's why you get answers like: 'Check the crankcase heater' or ' miswired so that it only had 120V instead of 220V (it is actually 240V but that is another discussion) powering it.'

There's not many 'PROS' that visit these boards. Why is that?

PS: A pro isn't paid to come here.