We have had great experience with Laticrete and use their products almost exclusively. Can't say we've ever had any problems. They have asked us to conduct "trials" with new materials which we hesitate to do as we are committed to "tried and true" methods. In a few instances where risk is low, we have agreed to try a few products and they were always open and interested in our analysis. Obviously you will be checking multiple references for the contractor. Glad you are heading toward a positive outcome. Best wishes with your project.

Be sure to post the final when it's done right. Glad you're getting it redone correctly.

Yes, we want to "capture" steam, so we want vapor barrier and to build it like a real steam shower (sloped ceiling, etc.). For a while we thought we would want to put in a steam generator, but decided against it for various reasons. The contractor did bring up the Hydroban foam product on the phone. I'm curious how long this product has been on the market, and the pros and cons vs the hydroban sheet over backer board. I'll ask that tomorrow. Thanks.

Contractors get familiar with and make money with a particular system/product. The more familiar you are with a particular manufacturer's instructions, the less thinking you have to do. The third job is twice as profitable as the first and the tenth even more so. It's hard to deviate from success.

The product data sheet for HYDRO BAN® Board says this:

"HYDRO BAN Board® is a lightweight easy to handle and ready to tile
wall board designed to be used in bonded tile or stone installations. It
is made with a high-density, waterproof extruded polystyrene core and
a reinforced, waterproof membrane on both sides to give triple
protection form water and vapor intrusion."

But then on the same data sheet it says this:

"HYDRO BAN Board is waterproof, but to ensure a waterproof
installation all joints and fasteners must be sealed with alkaline
resistant tape (or Waterproof/Anti-Fracture Fabric) and two coats of HYDRO BAN, or HYDRO BAN Sheet Membrane
installed with a LATICRETE polymer fortified thin-set."

Those 2 statements seem to contradict each other.

Further down in the data sheet, under the installation instructions, there is more detailed instructions for using HYDRO BAN, or HYDRO BAN Sheet Membrane when using the board "to create a watertight system."

So what is the advantage to the customer of using the Hydro Ban board vs cement board? I could see that the installer might like it because it is lighter than cement board.

The HB board itself is waterproof due to the membrane on the surface of the board.

When the board is fastened to the wall, the fasteners will create holes in the surface membrane. The holes in the membrane created by those fasteners will not be waterproof.

When two boards are abutted together...along a long/tall wall, or in a wall-to-wall corner, the joint between those two panels will not be waterproof because the membrane does not bridge the joint. The joint is open.

So, each screw head needs to be sealed. It can be done by using thinset to apply a small square of HB sheet membrane over each fastener head. Each panel joint can be detailed by thinsetting a long strip of HB sheet membrane that bridges and covers the joint between two adjacent sheets.

Those same holes and joint could be sealed by "painting" HB liquid over them instead of using squares and strips of HB sheet.

Advantages of foam board systems? Yes, foam is lighter. It's easy to cut and less messy when doing so. The foam core of the board offers some insulting value, for both warmth and sound. With the membrane already applied on the panel, it can make installations go faster.

Cons? The product is more expensive.

Cement board with sheet membrane over the cement board? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. There are a lot of installers who prefer that over foam board.

Here's a Sal DiBiasi Youtube video showing Hydroban Board in a shower, go to 7:50 into the video to see the board joints being treated with reinforcing fabric and Hydroban liquid.

You can see the same type of treatment in Laticrete's installation video at about the 6:20 mark.

I didn't find any "Hydroban sheet over cement board" installation videos on youtube, but the basic steps are similar to Kerdi sheet membrane. If you want the basic steps of how sheet membrane is installed over cement board, here's a link to an old step-by-step Kerdi installation that I posted quite a few years ago. Again, some specific details of how Hydroban Sheet is installed may be different than what Kerdi specifies. But the basics are there.

I've dealt with Laticrete literally all my life. (My father and grandfather used to field test all their products for them and train their technicians and reps, and my grandfather was literally the first person to ever make a retail purchase from Laticrete and Dr. Rothberg in 1956). Since I've been in business for myself, I stick almost exclusively to their products. Not just because of my relationship to the family that (still) owns the company, but because I'll swear by their products. The few times that I've had problems, they've made good on them, and stood behind their products. Unlike most manufacturers who will send reps out to a job and then parrot the very same line no matter what they find (installer error), they'll actually look to see if it was, indeed, their product, and then act accordingly. You couldn't ask for a better product, or a better company.

I have had 3 contractors here this week to look at and bid on fixing this shower mess. Not 1 understands even the simplest of concepts, such as the pre-slope (which wasn't done by previous/fired contractor). The 3 contractors that came this week were recommended by the NTCA and the area Laticrete sales rep. Still trying...

I live in the 3rd or 4th largest city in the USA, I am seriously wondering if there is anyone in this huge city who can just build a shower.

PM me your zip code and share your budget w/me

How do I PM?

Hell, I'll just tell you and everybody else. My zip code is 77381. It's amazing. I can and do read. I bought and read through the TCNA handbook. I don't have the physical strength or applied skills and experience to do it myself; I wish I did. I need to hire someone. Someone who actually reads instructions.

you missed the budget part. I assume youre in the range of 5-10K ? im not farmiliar with spring TX.

Why dont you call cabot rowe i think hes in houston, possible he could direct you...he used to participate on these forums.

To be sure I understand you are saying you had 1 laticrete and 2 NTCA reccomended tilers come out to your home ? did they seem interested and want your job, did you guys talk numbers and budget? or are you saying they didnt jive with things you refrence from TCNA manual you are reading? and are we getting the 2 orginazions mixed up.

The thing about the N-TCA and i think its a great organization, is its a pay in accredidation, doesnt mean youre John Whipple. If you want to focus on finding certified installers look closer at CTEF's list.

Sorry for late replay, I was out of town.

Mongo CT, thanks for that information and the video links. I'm totally hooked and watching practically all Sal DiBlasi's his videos now!

Tundra, yes, I had 3 contractors come (2 were on NTCA website, 1 was recommended by Laticrete rep). CTEF does not have anyone to recommend in my area. What the people were saying did not jive at all with what I have read here or in the handbook. They actually all said the shower was fine and seemed confused as to why I wanted to rebuild it. So those people are not going to work out.

Good news: I had another contractor come today that did describe their process in a way that *I think* jives with what I'm reading here and in the handbook, and with the Sal DiBlasi video. I should get their official proposal soon which will include the more exact language of their procedures. In a nut-shell, the contractor said he would use hydroban board on the walls and ceiling and to build the curb, and he would use a Kerdi drain (I asked why not a Laticrete drain, he said he likes these and they are practically interchangeable). The only other difference was in sealing the fasteners and joints, this contractor said he would use the hydroban liquid and tape rather than the sheet membrane. In the video, Sal says that the sheet membrane should be used for a steam shower. If that is the only difference, I'm think this contractor would agree to use the sheet membrane in those areas instead of the liquid. I'm going to rewatch it to be sure.

I also have 1 more contractor coming tomorrow.

I understand that Paul with Cabot & Rowe was going to meet with you. Trust this, if he isn't too busy, you can't get a more professional and competent tile technician. I've worked with him and I speak from experience.

My experience with Cabot & Rowe on these forums has been nothing but positive.

I agree with the other two. I've known Paul thru John Bridge's forum for many years, and he's a very knowledgeable professional who takes great pride in his work. You won't find any better.

If you have a facebook, I would suggest to join the group Tile Geeks. They are the worlds best of the best installers. Each has their own preference on the system, ive heard great things from Schluter, Wedi, EBBE and Latircrete

Tile Geeks is STRICTLY for those in the trade or industry.