How hot is it?

Are you located where it's always hot, rains alot?

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/3945014/young-shoot-is-wilted

I live in Toronto Canada . Lately it has been raining a lot and around 25-28 degree during daytime when the sun comes out

Rose midge damage

That is CLASSIC midge fly damage. It's a rocky road ahead for you in the battle against midge.

Moses

Are the midge suppose to be attracted to the yellow cups?

Plant Map

Rose midge damage

Moses, Western PA., zone 5/6

That is CLASSIC midge fly damage.

Moses

Where were you when Phuong Bui needed you?- http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/3945014/young-shoot-is-wilted

I used the blue cups. And beneficiaI nematodes on the ground and spray Spinosad on the buds. When the eat the plant with the Spinosad they die.

Chris,

You are totally right about only using blue cups, other prongs of attacks are needed. The thing I like about the blue cups is that for the first time in a long time I got to see the enemy I am fighting. They look like little mosquito or gnats. It is emotional response to finally meet the bugs face to face. I haven't figured out what time of day they fly yet.

What is a "blue cups"?

Apparently, adult rose midge are attracted to blue or yellow, so people put out blue or yellow plastic cups coated with oil to trap them. The midge land on the cups and are stuck, then die. I don't think they need to be "cups" necessarily, being as I've seen some websites selling plastic squares with a hole punched in each for for hanging with a wire. But since blue or yellow plastic cups are easily found and cheap, people use them, upside down on stakes around the garden.

:-)

~Christopher

I'm also going to have to say rose midge too because it looks exactly like mine used to. I just don't have the time to use the cups, so instead I use bayer complete insect killer. I use the granules in the spring, and then I use the sprayer that attaches to my hose once a month. With these methods, I see no trace of them now..

I am not sure how the midges fly into the canola oil on the blue cups or at what time of the day. I think a around noon they fly or rise like a good year blimp then sometime during the day they drift into the oil and it gets on the wings and they stick there.

By the time you see a crisped growing tip, the midge fly maggots have long since dropped off that damaged tip, having fallen to the ground where as pupae they soon emerge as adult midge flies.

If you are able catch infested tips before they advance to the crisped stage, then you will see several tiny white/beige colored, squirming maggots deep in them, munching away. Finding these infested tips is very hard because there is no crisping yet. At this time infested tips look pretty normal.

Removing the crisped, maggot vacated, tips and dropping them into soapy water may make you feel good that you have done something productive, but you have done nothing to slow down the midge onslaught.

When the pupating midge flies which fell to the soil surface, onto which surface they fell before you removed the midge-less tip they just destroyed, emerge as adults to breed, the egg laden females will re-infest your roses at all available growing tips all summer long, generation after generation until the fall frosts halt them.

It's really disheartening when a midge hits a robustly growing basal cane, destroying its growing tip.

Moses

Moses, how do you know sooooo much???

I'm so impressed about the knowledge u guys have !! Wow I'm truely amazed and glad I registered an account here . I love roses but I'm not experienced at all. I used to have several rose plants but unfortunately I got rid of them as there were too many Japanese beetles and black spots ! I was not able to get rid of the black spots and in the end, all those roses had no leaves left :( sad

I didn't realize that by "burnt tips" stage it was too late. But based on what I just read, the "bent tips" stage was still early enough to catch the larvae. I guess I'll have to do it a bit more often.

Being as I have so many old roses, I'm just accustomed to having only a few blooms from about now through July -- of my types, really only the Chinas, Polyanthas, Teas, Rosa moschata, and 'Reverend Seidel' normally keep blooming in July. The rest mostly pause, resuming in August, and I don't really see any midge damage anymore by then. I also tend to prune the "pausers" about now, so that probably contributes to disrupting the cycle.

If that's not what's keeping things under control, then I don't know what is. But here I am with about 120 roses in NJ, where rose midge apparently originated, and I see it for only a short period from about mid June through early July.

:-)

~Christopher

Christopher,

You are very fortunate. I have severe, intense midge damage, almost 100% of all growing tips, basal shoots and laterals both, all season long from May to October if not addressed by some means, spraying in my case. The intensity builds up as the season progresses. I must spray or else no rose blooms, just bushes with leaves.

Make a test for yourself. Snip off a midged tip (hopefully you will not have too many), and sit down at a table with a white plate or piece of white paper, under good lighting, and open up the tip carefully. You may need a magnifying glass. The really crisped tips will have no maggots in them. They already fell off to the ground. A freshly infested tip, which is hard to determine visually on the bush, when opened, will show a group of white/beige colored slowly wiggling maggots. The maggots are as tiny as an exclamation point (minus the dot), on a page of the The Wall Street Journal, for example.

Under ideal weather conditions, during the heat of summer, the entire midge's life cycle, from egg to egg laying adult, is far quicker than in the cool of spring and fall, as fast as 8 days. All development periods are approximate.

Day 1, the egg is laid.

By day 2, the egg has hatched. The maggot starts eating immediately.

Day 3 through 5, the larva eats.

On day 5, the larva drops to the ground, becoming a nymph (in a brown cocoon).

Day 8, an adult emerges from the cocoon, mates, and the females start laying eggs Immediately.

The rose tip is actively eaten for only about 3 days. Catch a tip during the eating stage and removing/destroying it will do the maggots in. Job well done. The damaged tip will never produce a flower, so removing it is necessary to get the remaining stem to cycle fresh shoots below the damage. Often, you have to go down the stem considerably below the damaged tip to get strong, husky new stem shoots. It's a serious energy drain on the rose bush.

The difficulty is in identifying a tip during the three day, active eating stage of the maggot. The tip barely shows any signs of a midge attack just yet. Crisping comes a little later. Once the tip shows crisping, the maggots are gone. Maggots must stop eating and drop to the ground to continue their life cycles.

There are a number of ways of combatting midge, some more successful than others. I do not believe there is an organic control of midge fly at this time. I wish there was.

A combination of offensive measures is probably the most effective control, that is, sticky cups and systemic insecticides together, probably being the most effective.

You have to remove damaged tips and often substantial stem growth farther down from the tip in rehabbing a midged tip. A midged tip will not produce a bloom, or a bloom of any integrity.

Moses

Lydia,

Faithful spraying, every 10 days to 2 weeks, with Bayer Rose and Flower Disease Control, keeps my roses black spot free.

I recommend it highly for black spot.

Plain Immunox spray is the recommended powdery mildew treatment. Powdery mildew is not as prevelant or severe for you or me in our similar climates as black spot is. Some years black spot is epidemic, others, mild. Weather conditions affect the level of severity.

Bayer Complete Insect Control sprayed every 7-10 days, only on growing tips, down the tip just about 4 inches, and tips only, not the entire bush will keep midge fly to only about 5-10% damage of all growing tips. One in fifteen growing tips will get midged even when sprayed, which is an acceptable collateral damage level.

Once a growing tip reaches the green flower bud size of a garden pea, the female midge devil will leave it alone, no longer succulent for her foul brood.

Each time you do your scheduled midge spray, each bush is different. Those covered with developing shoots, each and every shoot gets sprayed. Those whose shoots have pea sized or bigger green developing buds get no spray. It is unnecessary. A waste of time and money. Those bushes that have a combination of tips, only those not yet arrived at the pea size get sprayed.

This spray goes very quickly. The reason for the week to 10 day frequency is that although the Bayer spray is systemic, it does not translocate to fresh growth. Basal canes grow so quickly they are caviar to midge flies. Their tips, even though just sprayed, just 2-3 days later are vulnerable to attack!

Midge is the insect from the pit of hell!

Moses

Streisand fan,

Been growing roses for 55+ years. I learned from old timers when I was young, and from wonderfully knowledgeable young folks today. Most of them right here on the Roses Forum. You accumulate a lot of information over time.

Lots of mistakes I made, and still make count for a lot.

There's a lot more I don't know than I know, believe me, I'm not being modest when I say this.

Moses

BTW, no one can sing like Barbra.

Moses, thank you for posting such informative info about all of this.. It's great that you share your knowledge with everyone:)

And yes, Barbra rules!!!

I don't know whether it is climate, or the spraying of broad spectrum pesticides, but I've never had 100% midge infestation in my rose garden, which quickly grew from 50 to 200 roses. My guess is that the worst it got was maybe 2/3 of the tips. I do let spiders and other predators hang around in my rose garden if they don't mind the fungicide spraying I do.

Zack,

You are indeed fortunate. Every garden is different, under several categories.

Even regarding one often overlooked factor, windiness, I believe that although midge may normally be sedentary and not travel much, a windy rose garden may be continuously reinfested with fresh midge from elsewhere being blown into it, almost on a daily basis.

A windy rose garden may be a liability regarding RRV, too, with virus carrying mites blowing in all the time.

I've heard that climbers are more frequently infested with RRV since they are large, and often grown on high structures where they are exposed to more air movement, which air could be carrying diseased mites.

If I did not spray I would maybe have a decent first flush, but not one single bloom all season long, thereafter, until next spring.

Midge used to wake up after winter hibernation in June in the recent past, not damaging the first flush. Now a days, the first flush is hit also, not 100%, but at least 50% if not sprayed.

Moses

Thanks Moses ! I wish I had 5% of your knowledge !

i just realized the new growth ( tips) are a bit crispy too on the new brilliant pink iceberg I bought 2 days ago ! Sigh :(

plus the bottom of the leaves r turning yellow .. I wish it's not the compost I mixed in my garden soil (50% compost 50% original soil )

Lydia,

Take heart! There is a solution to every problem, and frequently more than just one solution.

The method I use to control midge has been step by step outlined in past Roses Forum posts. My method works very effectively for me. What I like about it is that it is the least toxic to the environment.

If you would like to know what I do, please just type in the word, 'midge,' in the space at the beginning of the Roses Forum and click Roses Forum below that.

All the archived posts relevant to 'midge,' will appear. Check out the ones where my forum name, Moses, appears and go from there. Any comments or questions you may have, you can place them on your post here.

Hope I have been helpful

I do know how you feel, discovering this dreadful aspect of rose culture, midge control. It hit me like a freight train back years ago. I was very disheartened. Then, after the initial shock was over, I accepted the reality of the situation and proceeded to strategize a plan of control. Now I consider it another necessary aspect of growing roses.

Moses

Thanks again Moses

here is the products sold at a garden centre near my home . Does this work or I should shop around for other products ?

Lydia,

The insecticide I use is Bayer Complete Insect Killer. You can get it most places: Home Depot, Lowe's, Walmart.......

Moses

I'm in Canada and I don't seem to find the spray mentioned :(

Lydia,

Ah!!! I suspect the Bayer product I recommend, containing imidacloprid, is banned in Canada!

This presents the necessity that a plan B must be undertaken.

A Canadian rosarian who is effectively combatting midge has to be found.

I will submit such a post, ASAP.

Moses

Bumping this thread up, so that others can read through it. I learned a lot.

From extensive reading, it appears the midge can/may also pupate IN the stem itself, so there is some benefit in removing the burnt tips.