margomnyc

does anyone have the new wolf contemporary 36" gas cooktop?

Margo Margolis
October 28, 2017

Would be interested to know how it is mounted-whether flush mounted or standard mount.

Comments (109)

  • Margo Margolis

    Hi,

    I am still experimenting with the CSO-Have made some meals using"special modes," "menu cooking "where it programs you to put in three different foods at different times for one meal i.e. Salad Nicoise= green beans, eggs, potatoes and also there are ways of cooking one dish, chicken, for instance at different temperatures,different levels of moisture for the optimum flavor. I did go to the Miele center in NYC for some of their cooking demos/classes and found that very helpful and they also gave out recipes for the dishes that were prepared. I use it often for hardboiled eggs-perfect. As I said, still learning and don't think I have explored all yet. When I was deciding on appliances,the store I used had a chef that would demonstrate so I asked her to make a risotto using the CSO and it was so good-that sold me


  • Margo Margolis

    To answer- I use both ovens. I like having a separate cooktop in another location as that makes it easy if several people are working at the same time

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  • lisaandmarcel

    Evening Margo this seems terrifying after watching his video !!!!!! Please advise. Thank you
  • Margo Margolis

    I see what you mean but this video is very exaggerated- not as complicated as he makes it look.I hven't used the master chef that much-for a few things like steamed vegetables or hardboiled eggs otherwise for chicken I follow my own recipes or some that I got from Miele-like , ie.using combi for chicken to roast with 20% steam. Do you live near a Miele center? Their demonstrations/ classes are really helpful.


  • ostrich

    Hmm..... is he going to be happy with a Wolf Combination Steam oven!? Or ANY CSO???

  • M

    Wow, the guy in that video is annoying. He goes out of his way to deliberately do things wrong. And then just whines.

    He never bothers to read what it says on the screen: "Where's the chicken option; all I see here is `meat`!". And he refuses to read the manual when he doesn't understand one of the prompts: "Which container takes fresh water? I just took a guess, and now I need to empty the canister that I just filled!", "Why would you press `lift` to close the lift?", "I don't know what the universal tray is. I guess I just take one of the roasting pans. Duh, it doesn't fit.", "My unit wasn't shipped with a grease filter. Why do the instructions still prompt me to install the filter? BTW, I never contacted Miele about the missing part, so why didn't they send me replacement part?", ...

    I own the same Miele CSO and I have found it to be exceptionally intuitive to use. Steam works exactly as expected, and makes a big difference for many recipes. I feel that the complaints in that video are all just click-bait.

    Admittely, the software for this CSO isn't perfect and does have a couple of mildly irritating limitations. But many people would probably not even notice. You only run into the restrictions if you try to do more complex things. And even if you do notice, they are mostly nuisances and there are still ways to work around these restrictions. Here are some examples:

    • MasterChef doesn't allow you to see what it does and you can't manually tweak it's settings; it's just a black box. This is a missed opportunity, as MasterChef would have been a great way to teach users by example. On the other hand, it generally does a really good job for the things that I have tried so far. So, it keeps its promise.
    • Some cooking modes arbitrarily restrict the range of parameters, but if you walk through a slightly different menu choice you can in fact enter these values. For instance, steam-cooking and sous-vide cooking is essentially the same thing. But it gives access to different temperature ranges. Quite frequently, that's a reasonable assumption, but sometimes I know what I am doing and I wish I could override these restrictions a little more easily.
    • Sous-vide cooking is arbitrarily limited to 10h. That's really annoying, actually! And in fact, it can be dangerous. If sous-vide stops heating in the middle of the night, foods can cool down to unsafe temperatures. So, I need to carefully plan my 10h cooking window to overlap with the time when I am in the kitchen.
    • Sometimes you can program multiple different steps for a complex temperature profile, and at other times you can only enter a single step and then need to manually make adjustments later on. In other words, you can't sous-vide your meat first, and then roast or broil it afterwards. You have to manually switch modes. Again, this is simply a missed opportunity.

    Having said that, I would absolutely recommend the Miele CSO. It's amazing. And if you can get the plumbed version, you don't even need to worry about filling and emptying water canisters. And I am sure as I am getting used to the appliance, I'll program a bunch of "favorites"; so, I don't actually have to get upset about the UI restrictions. These "favorites" are recipes that you save for later use, and they are then quickly accessible in the future.

  • Margo Margolis

    M thanks for your comments. I agree with you. I have not used the sous vide method yet but here is a good video for chicken thighs ,sous vide, the takes only an hour or so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og8BJLFnJFw . I would love to hear some of your favorites.

  • Margo Margolis

    lisaandmarcel I agree with what M has posted. If you google Miele combisteam oven and look at the youtube videos from Miele -they are very helpful and give an different impression. There is one that explains the use of "menu cooking" which is great function :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP_WWpx_8Ps

  • M

    So far, I have made fish sous-vide a couple of times. Super easy, fast, and absolutely delicious. 125°F salmon is just perfect. After removing the fish from the sous-vide bag, either give it a quick sear in a hot skillet, or if you want to minimize cooking it, sear it with a propane torch. The juices from the bag can be used to make a quick sauce or dressing.


    I have also made made steak sous-vide. Regular cuts of course come out perfectly medium-rare. And "cheap" cuts also work. But I think I need to sous-vide longer. I cooked a chuck-roast for 15h (had to reset the timer half-way through). It tastes amazing, but it still had tough connective tissue. I think I either need to significantly increase cooking time (some recipes call for 48h) or I need to cut out some of the bigger tough parts before cooking. With the exception of the big tendons, the meat itself definitely doesn't need this long.


    I saw one recipe online that used "meat glue" to reassemble the individual parts of meat after cleaning out the big tough tendons and skins. Still undecided if that's a good solution, or if that's too modernist for me. But it certainly is attractive to use a tasty (but normally tough) cut like chuck roast, and turn it into a great steak.


    I also discovered that salmon absolutely requires about 20min of dry brining before you sous-vide it. That prevents white albumen on the surface, and it also results in firmer meat. On the other hand, for meats it is better to avoid salting them too much prior to sous-vide, as it can otherwise turn your steak into pastrami or corned-beef.


    I roasted a goose with steam-assist (i.e. higher temperature than sous-vide). Used the temperature probe for this. And was blown away how quickly it cooked. It completely messed up my time management for the side dishes. In hind-sight, this wasn't done quite the way I wanted it. Don't get me wrong, it was still an amazingly tasty goose. But I think it could have been even better, if I had cooked it at sous-vide temperatures (but not actually in a sous-vide bag) for an extended amount of time, and then roasted to finish the skin. Oh well, I'll try that the next time.


    Vegetables all come out wonderfully. Steam cooked asparagus, green beans, potatoes, carrots, ... they all turn out much better than I have managed to do with other cooking techniques. And I'd like to think that I am actually a pretty decent home chef. It's humbling to see that a single tool can do such a good job at improving cooking technique -- and that's true even though I am still at the very beginning of my learning curve.


    I have used the CSO for all sorts of different eggs (poached, soft-boiled, hard-boiled, ...). They all come out great and with minimal effort.


    I have cooked fresh pasta using a steam tray. Perfectly cooked and nice bite. The surface stays a little firmer than when cooking in boiling water. I really liked this.


    I have baked cheese cake, and I am quite happy with the results. Although, I think I still need to tweak some of the parameters a little more; the steam oven should be able to give even better results. I am converting an old recipe that I have used with regular ovens for use with the CSO. And it just takes a few tries to get optimal parameters. The same is true for my first attempt at baking a bread in the CSO. But then, I remember I always had to fine-tune times/temperatures whenever I got a new oven in the past. So, this is not unexpected. The notable difference is the fact that now I can control moisture in addition to time/temperature.


    In other words, when you read on Houzz how big of a change it is to get a modern CSO, then people aren't lying. It really does open up a lot of other techniques that are difficult to replicate with alternative tools (n.b. I said difficult, but didn't say impossible). And it does make time-management overall much easier (again, there is a learning curve; discovering that roasting times are cut in half can mess up meal planning, the first time it happens).


    Edit: I just cooked the America's Test Kitchen recipe for Peruvian Roast Chicken in our Miele CSO. Instead of following the instructions provided by ATK, I cooked the chicken sous-vide at 145°F for 4 hours and then preheated the oven to maximum heat and turned on the broiler to finish the skin. The Miele CSO makes for an amazingly convenient sous-vide cooker. No messing around with large water containers.

    The finishing step was performed in my Bluestar 30" RNB oven, as it has a stronger broiler element and as I don't worry that much about splatter in that oven. But I am sure, if you only had the CSO, you could have easily finished the chicken in it as well. It might just require a little more cleaning. Or of course, you could finish it on a BBQ. That would have been my preferred option, but ours is still out-of-commission because of the final stages of the remodel.

    The chicken was amazingly juicy and tender. Everybody loved it. Interestingly, some of the dark meat still looked pink -- but it was fully cooked and pink. That was an entirely new experience.

    Margo Margolis thanked M
  • lisaandmarcel

    M & Margo, thank you so very much for being so helpful. That video scared me, I know there will be a learning curve but..... As long as I can choose oven temp and my oven time and cook like a regular oven if I have to then great. They are very expensive items. I am switching back Margo to the Wolf Cooktop I am so glad this thread became live again. I will look for classes and videos online. .

  • Margo Margolis

    lisaandmarcel, This is a great discussion. Thanks for starting this up. Where do you live?


  • Margo Margolis

    M thank you, thnk you for posting this information about your experiences-now I have to try the sous vide-especially for fish. Love hearing about what you have tried-feel free to pass on any more recipes!!!!

  • lisaandmarcel

    I live on the West Coast :)

    I still am blown away you have the exact same appliances as me. I would LOVE to come to NYC one day.


  • Margo Margolis

    M do you have a vacuum sealer and if so which brand? Any info is appreciated .After reading your post I am interested in trying sous vide.

  • M

    So far, I am simply using Ziploc bags. It works fine, everything considered. I suspect that because we are cooking in hot moist air, there really isn't much difference between the inside and the outside of the bag. So, a vacuum is likely not quite a critical as with a water bath, where the air can make the bag float to the surface. But that's just my hand-wavey explanation, why I am seeing these good results.

    Having said that, I have a vacuum sealer on order. It should get here any day. Based on the advise provided in this forum, I ordered a Sinbo sealer, and I opted for the one that can seal liquids. That seems most useful for the type of things that I envision using it for.

    Margo Margolis thanked M
  • Margo Margolis

    M I just ordered these ;https://anovaculinary.com/sous-vide-tools/reusable-silicone-bags/-I had given my son an Anova and found this info when I was looking on their website. Thanks for the info on Sinbo sealer-will see how the silicone bags work... Well, you have inspired me to try some new recipes. Again thanks. Have you found Miele recipes for the CSO?

  • M

    I find that a lot of things are reasonably straight-forward to translate from conventional recipes to either steam-enhanced or sous-vide recipes. The key insights are that steam allows for faster heat transfer, and thus cooking times go down in combination modes (i.e. when cooking above 212°F); and secondly, when cooking sous-vide (i.e. below 212°F), you only ever heat up to the desired interior temperature, but you increase cooking times. The latter is something that you probably need to look up online. But there are plenty of sites that list recommended temperatures and times for the various protein choices.

    If you need a collection of recipes, then https://sites.google.com/site/combisteamconvectionsteamoven/home/recipes-and-guides is probably a good starting point.

    Other than that, if you live close to a Miele Experience Center, I can absolutely recommend taking one or two of their CSO-focused cooking classes. It gives you a great introduction to how steam works, and it gives you a good opportunity to ask questions.

    I don't think they do any sous-vide style demonstrations though. If I recall correctly, the sous-vide function was a relatively recent addition to the software that controls the steam ovens. I guess, Miele hadn't initially realized that their hardware happens to also make for a great sous-vide appliance in addition to all the other things that it can do.

    BTW, this is not entirely obvious when looking at the user interface, but whenever you set the temperature (normally in 5°F increments), there also is a little keypad icon that allows you to set the temperatur in 1°F increments. I haven't tried, but I suspect if I change the oven to centigrade, I could probably set the temperatures even more fine-grained.

  • Margo Margolis

    Hi M, Yes I have been to the Miele experience center and have found their classes (and lunches )to be great. They also gave out the recipes for the dishes they made that day so I do have a small collection. Interested in doing more when I find time. I am impressed with how much experience you have with the CSO-thanks for all your advice.

  • lisaandmarcel

    renovations in full swing ! looking forward to my new ovens, and cooktop, hopefully finish in the Summer. Been busy with millions of decisions but will be in touch when all down. Thanks again.

  • Margo Margolis

    Sounds exciting-please post photos!!

  • lisaandmarcel

    will do ;)


  • Margo Margolis

    lisaandmarcel Signature polish comes with the Wolf cooktop-it is great and I recommend you buy a large size as it will keep your appliance looking like new-that and a microfiber cloth

  • lisaandmarcel

    Okay good to know thank you Margo :)


  • waverly6

    Don't know how I missed this thread in January with all my research on the Miele CSO. Glad it was resurrected. Such great information in here, thank you ladies. (and gents). Miele should give you commission. ) or a free roasting pan...)

    @Ostrich, if you are still around, I'm interested in hearing if you have finalized your choices. I keep going back and forth on the decision about the different 30 inch convection ovens. I had actually at one point ruled out any of hte Miele appliances besides the CSO as service in my remote area is problematic. Now, however, the technicians at the local appliance store I am using are getting Miele certification so that isn't an issue any more. But like you, Ostrich, I'm thinking I don't need the most expensive M touch option. I know you were thinking of the pureline 30 inch convection and it makes a lot of sense to me. We are off to the Miele Experience center later this morning for a convection oven demo so maybe that will help me decide. I have had convection ovens for 30 years so I know what they can do, it's just whether with the CSO, countertop speed ovens/air fryers, barbeque and so on. which model I can go with.

    i'm interested to hear the sous vide option works really well. I had read somewhere that the calibration of the temperature control wasn't fine enough for real sous vide.

    i'm going to take another look at their built in vac sealer drawer. Very seriously considering it ( or the one by wolf which has a plain stainless drawer front) The freestanding models by vacmaster and similar companies are so bulky and really require an investment of counter space. ( and are not attractive to look at.)

  • ostrich
    waverly6, I did go with the base Miele 30" oven together with the top of the line CSO. I really did not need all of the bells and whistles with the regular oven and I know that my parents will have a tough time using M Touch etc!!!

    I must confess that I was considering M Touch for its "looks" (!!!) but I got over it. I saw the Pureline paired with the CSO in a showroom and it looked just fine.... and now I have saved thousands of dollars! YAY!

    Isn't it terrible that I was considering M Touch before for its looks!? Ouch....

    Good luck with your decision!
  • waverly6

    Ostrich, not terrible at all! I am still hankering after a big 48 range for its looks. I love the aga elise and mercury induction ranges. and I so want a la cornue. They are so amazing to look at.

    I keep going back to the M touch 30 inch miele because of it being eye level, the steam assist , the rotisserie, the masterchef program, the wireless probe. more for what it can do than for its looks. Went to a demo today and loved it all over again.

    Sounds like you have signed on the dotted line for your ovens. But did you ever see the Signature suites ( upscale LG version) 48 range. https://www.signaturekitchensuite.com/us/products/ranges/48-inch-dual-fuel-pro-range-sous-vide-and-induction?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term={term}&utm_content=48_inch_range&utm_campaign=truetofood_2018_pilot&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-onjBRDSARIsAEZXcKZH91RuxQkAU2TGmz7DD7V3veVSM_1cphK9y7y8wfQZwWAUWYaivKoaAmqQEALw_wcB

    I thought of you when I first saw info on it. It has gas, induction and sous vide.Ovens are steam oven and convection oven I spoke to an appliance store owner who saw it at a show and sales rep who went on a course to cook on it and they both said it was awesome; like they took the best part of every oven range and put it into one.

    But i still think that with separate components, like a range top, 30 inch convection oven and the miele xxl cso, i can get the best of each one. Just not so pretty.

  • ostrich

    waverly6, I have not heard of this Signature brand before! I guess we can't get it here in Canada.... SIGH!


    Anyway, we only use the oven for basic things, so I know that the CSO will keep us really busy anyway! LOL! So having the second oven is just a bit of a luxury for us, and will make sure that my kitchen has the "double oven" for resale... ANOTHER TERRIBLE THING TO SAY/DO!!! Ouch...


    BTW, I do like to have separate components. If one breaks down, the rest still works... LOL! Good luck.

  • Margo Margolis

    ostrichThe signature polish came with the Wolf cooktop as a product they recommend for their stainless steel. I went on line and ordered a large bottle. I have not seen it in stores and had never heard of it before but it is great!

  • ostrich
    Thank you so much, Margo, for the great tip!!! Will keep that in mind when my kitchen is done!!! Thanks.
  • lisaandmarcel

    waverly6, yes I am pretty done kitchen build will be in production hopefully this week. They'd kill me if I switched all appliances now ;) I have never heard of that brand before either. I am really looking forward to my new cooktop, I had a 36" range and although it was lovely to work on it sat very proud. And my new kitchen will be cleaner lines so I am looking forward to the Wolf Cooktop to be flush with counter, and same countertop line all around. I am not sure all the differences with the Miele Oven and what ones do, I know mine has a meat probe, and steam function. I did go on looks as I was looking at Wolf Ovens, but was a bit leary of the blue enamel problems. But wasn't sold on the Miele when I saw them, until one day walking out of showroom, I spied a display of the Miele Brilliant White and I was sold. Spending all this money on a remodle and new kitchen I I wanted to love it, and I love the looks of it. I almost went with the Fulgor Range, instead of the original Wolf and so happy I looked on here, and found Margo with he exact same appliances.

  • lisaandmarcel

    Ostrich when will your kitchen be done ? be sure to post photos :) And come back to talk about how we are liking our ovens and learning curve. Especially the steam Oven !


  • waverly6
    Looking forward to seeing photos of your lovely kitchens Ostrich and LisadMarcel. Just curious: In going with the white oven ( which is beautiful),what color paint are you going with for your cabinets.? What will your other appliances be ?
  • ostrich

    Hello everyone! Finally, the house is done.... here are a couple of photos of the kitchen! Thank you so much for your input. You have helped me make some good choices for my appliances! Thank you again.




    BTW, don't laugh at me - I have been so busy that I have not even learned how to use the CSO!!! LOL! But it sure looks good in the kitchen.... !!! Oh, and I love the Wolf Contemporary Gas Cooktop - it's absolutely brilliant! Such a joy to cook with it.

  • Margo Margolis

    WOW!! Looks Fantastic. I think you will love all your appliances. I love the CSO and I am still going to the Miele showroom occasionally for their cooking classes.

    Enjoy your new kitchen

  • ostrich

    Thank you, Margo! :-)


    Now, where is my bottle of Signature Polish??? I got some water stains and things on my cooktop and I need to get rid of them!!!!! Margo, did you go on the Signature Polish website or somewhere else to order it? Their website looks a bit suspicious... LOL

  • ostrich

    I just found my Signature Polish and used it to clean the stainless steel stains on my Contemporary gas cooktop - it works like wonders! I love it. Yes, I'd better get a big bottle ASAP! :-) Thanks so much for the tip, Margo!

  • lisaandmarcel

    Oh WOW so nice, very clean and contemporary. You must be soooo happy it is finished !!! Thanks fo sharing Exciting !!! I am done also but will have to take photos and upload. I have used the ovens just a handful of times. Liking my Wolf Cooktop, not sure about the cleaning stuff you mentioned. I clean all the time with a sponge. Looking great Ostrich.

  • waverly6

    @ostrich.how exciting!!!!!!!

    It all looks gorgeous and I love your choices. Love that you added knobs on the side of your gas cooktop. . I love knobs... I thought you were going to go with induction.? Love your waterfall island and your lights , and your backsplash and your pulls. And your range hood. Did you use the subzero appliance handles ? Can you post more photos please?

    Lisaandmarcel, looking forward to seeing your photos. It's all very clean lined and great appliances.

    My kitchen has been ripped out and I am moving out tomorrow. Still going back and forth on some decisions ( okay, many decisions.).

  • ostrich

    Thanks, lisaandmarcel and waverly6!

    Lisaandmarcel, I use a sponge to clean all the time too, but this time the marks would not come off. Then I found this Signature Polish that came with my cooktop (thanks to Margo!) and the stains came off so easily! I could not believe how good it was. Now the cooktop looks like new again :-) (OK, it is quite new really LOL)

    waverly6, hang in there! It has been such a journey and I am totally exhausted... still recovering from the home construction process! In answer to your questions:

    - No, I did not use the Subzero pulls - I wanted something that would go with my other appliances and handles, so I got something else instead. I cannot remember the brand now, but it does look good and works well.

    - I wanted induction but my family did not, so they won :-) I am pleased with this gas cooktop though. It cooks very well because the control is truly excellent, and it has plenty of ooomph too! Love it.

    Will post more pics when I have more time.... which is such a luxury these days! :-) thanks again!


  • lisaandmarcel

    Hi All okay here is my big reveal for the first time !!!!!! Can't believe it is finally done after 9 months living in the basement with no windows, and much longer in planning. Have enjoyed this thread. Margo Margolis as I said I bought the same appliances as you Brilliant White and all. So crazy after buying them so very long ago I can finally use them ! Liking everything so far. Waverly I think the Miele interface is user friendly, I just baked some banana bread in the CSO,. Ostrich I bet you will be so happy as will I , to use our new kitchens over the holidays ! Here are some photos. Can't believe looking at them that they are my kitchen lol.



  • lisaandmarcel

    Wall ovens Miele Brilliant white and CSO.


  • lisaandmarcel

    At long last I have windows again after being in my little hovel as I called it for 9 months, with a 2 burner plug in cooktop and bar sink to wash my families dishes. I look forward to making meals up here !! fresh Banana Bread from CSO, cooling on our Wolf Cooktop..


  • lisaandmarcel

    Bonus photo of my island legs, I think they are so neat, ( Our Wolf cooktop in background.)


  • Margo Margolis

    So exciting to see your finished kitchen. It looks just fantastic!! Really beautiful.Now we all must share some recipes for the CSO. I love the white glass ovens.

  • Margo Margolis

    Btw-what did you use for countertops?

  • lisaandmarcel

    Thank you Margo,......Yes we will for sure keep it going. I saw a recipe for broccoli that I will try and let you know. My counters are a Marble. ( on another thread I need to post there also as I thought long and hard on what I wanted. ) Its a different kind of marble harder then some but not as hard as natural Quartzite. Time will tell but so far I am super happy I took the plunge. This was a once in a lifetime reno for me. :)

  • waverly6

    So gorgeous, LisaandMarcel! Been waiting for the big reveal all day!!! (Kind of embarrassing, but it beats packing up to move out). Very elegant and bright. LOVE those legs. So different. Love the marble. Everything works really well together. What wood did you put on your ceiling? Must be such a pleasure to finally cook in it after being in the dungeons for so long.

    I'm lucky I get to go "home" to my other great kitchen while this reno is being done. I have been "cooking" on an air fryer and countertop convection steam oven for the last week and as I didn't plan for it, I'm ready to leave. I said this morning that I'm sure Hannibal's march across the Alps took less planning, packing and moving.

  • lisaandmarcel
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><md>Lol sounds like a feat !
    Oh sorry to keep ya waiting
  • ostrich

    lisaandmarcel, this is totally gorgeous!!! I love your selections. So classy and elegant, yet clean and streamlined. Thank you so much for sharing these lovely photos!

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