What does your architect recommend?

I think the drywall is usually a little bit longer than the cabinets, allowing you to wrap the baseboard around it.

No raised bar. No drywall either. Worst design practices.

Can't believe I'm going to say this but I agree with Sophie - at least on the no drywall part. Raised bars are not my thing either, but if that's what you have your heart set on..... go for it. Drywall that wraps an island or is even just under the seating counter is going to take a beating and I'd recommend using panels from your cabinet manufacturer. They can be dressed up with moldings.

Of course what Columbus won't tell you but the rest of us are is that a raised bar is less useful, harder to climb up and down on the chairs and is considered out of favor in terms of design.

Finish all sides of the island and instead do a single height counter/seating area.

So a counter sits at 36" high and a standard bar height is 40" to 42". Why is it harder to sit on a seat that actually keeps you closer to standing than it is to sit down in a chair? I can easily place outlets inside the backsplash created by the elevated bar. Not so if no wall there.

If the width of counter is custom cut, is there any reason to make the knee wall wider? To me that seems like it would not be as fluid when walking by. Especially on the part facing the interior kitchen

The wall is always wider. It allows the counter on the lower part not to look weird. This is a design detail that has been handled this way for 30 years and more. It is the best way to handle that setup.

Outlets are now typically placed on the sides or back side far edges of islands. Or they are pop up.

Bar height makes your feet more likely to fall asleep.

Nic - you can modify the dimensions and make the wall flush with the cabinets but then your lower countertop will stick out past the wall. In the drawing, I've made the width of the wall slightly wider than normal to make sure the details were visible. Please let me know if you need any additional drawings.

Many will add this detail to partially obstruct the view into the kitchen or a mess on the island. Taller people usually find the higher surface more user friendly, and sometimes they're added purely as a design element to break up a large island into multiple surfaces.

Multi level islands have been around forever and will continue to always exist - currently there are over 285 thousand photos of them on Houzz - that's quite a few kitchens that are "out of favor."

NIc - the height you may prefer may be based on your height. I am 6 ft and while I prefer the lower height, my wife is 5'3" and she STRONGLY prefers 36 in height.

Have you lived with both? I have and I tore out the split height.

You realize that tables are 30 inches and are used for 95% of all seating for a reason? Even 36 is high.

Glad to see that the majority agree that the split design is gone. The split height is also an issue for spreading things out like newspapers, puzzles, just work in general. It is also easier to clean a single height.

The advantages of the split height are visual block to the messy sink and room for outlets. The disadvantages strongly outweigh the advantages in this poster's mind.

The interesting thing of course is that in your locale, "typical" maybe split height. In mine it is not and there literally is a sponsored pic right next to your post with a flat island.

Depends on the situation.

Straight across countertop:

Can use the chairs elsewhere

Can push serving dishes around

More open view into kitchen

When standing in kitchen, not at same eye level as sitting guests

2 tier island:

Bar height chairs

Lift dishes up to serve

Blocks view of lower countertop inside kitchen

When standing in kitchen bar guests will be at same eye level

I suggest 2 tier if sink. Water barrier and blocks view of dish soap,sponge, dish rack, if you have next to sink daily.

Both are useful & attractive.

As for material under sitting area, it may get scuffed up once in awhile, so keep touch up paint for easy fix.

Hope this helps you choose the best for you.

Everyone doing a tweak to an existing kitchen wants to rip down the silly pony wall and do a single level island. For a reason. It’s far more functional.

Renovators also want the island to look like an island. Not a half height wall with cabinets attached.

Islands are properly finished on all 4 sides with cabinets, paneling, cabinet doors, or a combination of all of those. The only reason that a pony wall is ever done by a tract builder is that they are the cheapest thing going and builders love cheap.

Don’t put in a Before design. Design it correctly from the beginning and save money by going straight to the After look.

No pony wall. Create a separate piece of furniture look. Single level counter height.

My first house I thought as the OP. Built wall behind cabinets. Easier for outlets. Nice high bar top. Three years later, sold that house. Won’t ever do that again! Lol

Current kitchen bartop i did at 36”

new kitchen for new house will have no seating at the island

There are plenty of situations when a pony wall is still used.

custom, can make any height or width.

blocking water from spreading on counter

blocking view of sink ( if preferred)

supporting heavy counter & allowing additional steel & or corbel supports when needed.

A pony wall is also nice to have electrical in it rather than in the cabinet. If electric is in a cabinet there will be a cord slightly hindering storage within.

A pony wall can also be disguised by lining it with matching cabinet color finished material, trim, & or panels to look uniformed.

Each situation has it's own solution.

Doc,

I have an island without seating in a rental. Boy do I miss it. Seating at an island is nice for connection to the chef. Also for an indestructible surface for kids to go crazy on. Super easy for breakfast when you might cook an egg at a time and serve without leaving kitchen.

I could go on and on. Rentals serve for good lessons on what you really want. Like big fridge and island seating!

In our remodeled kitchen we had to put in a pony wall to contain a return air vent in the wall. The pony wall is only on the back side of the island so the cabinets have finished sides, and the wall is not raised so we have a big flat island. We think it looks great (and LOVE the flat island with seating!). The wall extends past the cabinets on the sides just enough to house the electrical outlets. In our budget remodel, the pony wall saved us money on finishing the back side of the island, made running electrical easier, made it easier to structurally support the countertop overhang, and we got an additional 5" depth on the island top.

Pardon me for struggling to be convinced on a single tier counter. The island would not be a slab of granite or quartz. It would be a high grade laminate.

The part that overhangs the back of the cabinet would need to be supported. How do you support that? The overhang also would need to be 14 to 16 inches.

Outlet wire would run through the cabinet and then you'd have an outlet on the side of the cabinet? Plug in a mixer, now have a kid or pet walk by and snatch that cord. Horrible design. Pop-up outlet? That costs how much? That lasts how long? That doesn't get crap and water in it??? Please! What is the idea there?

What is your guy's idea of the bar height I speak of? Is it 42"? Or is it more like 50"? I'd like the facts so the decisions are easier.

I don't see the benefit of one height when I don't need that big of space since there is plenty of counter space on the cabinet side. I can't physically reach 40" from me. That's how wide it would be.

I know slabs of stone look good at one level. I like the visual break and about 42" high is not that tall for sitting or setting dishes for the dining area. I have a 2x4 wall I can use to support the top and I can maybe even tile it in the future for visual interest.

Custom, if you could draw the island with two tiers having the top be about 7" taller than the main portion. 5.5' wide. With as small of extra width on the pony wall as possible. I think that would look best if flush walls are not an option.

Hi Nic - here are three quick drawings showing three different configurations. The first shows the pony wall extending beyond the lower countertop, the second shows the pony wall flush with the lower countertop, and the third shows the pony wall flush with the cabinetry. As posted above, I tend to favor the first drawing.

The lower counter is 36 inches high, the upper counter is 42 inches high, the island cabinetry is 66 inches wide. These of course can vary based on your personal design.

Pardon me for struggling to be convinced on a single tier counter. The island would not be a slab of granite or quartz. It would be a high grade laminate.

If anything it should be less of a problem because laminate isn't as heavy as stone. Stone really needs extra support.

I'd suggest asking on the kitchen forum and actually calling out Joseph Corlett as he's the resident expert on countertop fabrication.

The part that overhangs the back of the cabinet would need to be supported. How do you support that? The overhang also would need to be 14 to 16 inches.

Same way You'd support a stone counter. Hidden brackets between the end panel of the cabinet.

Outlet wire would run through the cabinet and then you'd have an outlet on the side of the cabinet? Plug in a mixer, now have a kid or pet walk by and snatch that cord. Horrible design. Pop-up outlet? That costs how much? That lasts how long? That doesn't get crap and water in it??? Please! What is the idea there?

Or you could do what I'm doing on the side and put a strip of plug mold up right under the counter overhang on the side. Gives you more than 2 plugs and it's not far enough down to be a problem. You're creating problems where there are none actually.

What is your guy's idea of the bar height I speak of? Is it 42"? Or is it more like 50"? I'd like the facts so the decisions are easier.

Standard bar height is 42" high. Counter height is 36" high and table height is 29-30" high.

I don't see the benefit of one height when I don't need that big of space since there is plenty of counter space on the cabinet side. I can't physically reach 40" from me. That's how wide it would be.

Do you have children? Do they like to do homework near you? Guests who like to help you cook? Elderly family members? Very young children?

I know slabs of stone look good at one level.

So does laminate. Just because it's laminate doesn't make it an inferior product.

Just a note. I'm on the wrong side of 60 and while getting up into the bar height stools was not a problem even 7 years ago, I find that each year it does get a bit more difficult. And I train at a gym 3x a week doing things like step ups with weights, so it's not like I'm out of shape.

Electrical run through cabinets is required to be protected inside the cabinet. BX. The outlet on the side of the cabinet has been required now for 15-20 years.

One large single surface is far more useful than a chopped up surface. Post-formed laminate Island tops with the rounded over edges are 36” or 42” only. With a standard 24” deep perimeter cabinet, that is only 12” of overhang. Which does not really need support in laminate unless someone plans to sit on it.

Any other size counter and you will only be able to have the flat square edge. Which is a custom edge and you might as well buy stone for the cost. Counter Balance brackets work for laminate and stone if you want more support. And would still be required on any bar height top as well. It’s actually far tipsier because of leverage. With a large single surface, the weight of the cantilever keeps the seesaw from being overbalanced.

Bar height is only 6” higher than counter height. But breaking up that into two levels lessens the utility. And increases the cost since you will pay for another section of counter for the bar. Which will cost almost as much as the counter on the base. A double roll bar top (island) counter is the cheapest option over putting in two counters. Laminate is no longer the cheap option though. Especially if you are wanting HD laminate. You can usually find a Group A granite cheaper.

As a general practice, mixers go on the side cabinets, not the island. We use a cuisinart, a mixer, a juicer, a toaster oven and our son will be 8 years old next month. No event ever.

Islands make for better prepping since you have more space and less claustrophobic. You then turn around and use a large appliance.

Mostly what we plug in on the island - immersion blender, hand blender, electric knife and popcorn maker.

But, one of the advantages is easier outlet. But having lived with both, there is no contest.

Ever roll dough? Do a puzzle? Do arts and crafts? Teach a child how to blend? A large flat surface is a huge advantage.

But yes 42 inches. High enough so the average person has to support thr weight of their legs when seated

Custom, thanks for the renderings. Those are very helpful and appreciated.

I do believe I like the 1st one best, too. Looks like about 3" extended past each cabinet. On the interior side of the kitchen where the island is "in front" of the dishwasher, that 3" + bar counter overhang of 1" would potentially make the space feel cramped if the dishwasher is open. But only during that, I think.

Valid points about the single height countertop giving more space. But, I do not feel like I will waste space on the bar top either. My lifestyle revolves around having friends over and the bar offers a good place to sit at and not very long term. If it were my dining area I'd go for countertop height in a heartbeat. Im sure each one has pros and cons but I don't see the cons of a pony wall being better than cons of a countertop height unless the countertop we're stone or rather expensive.

Hi Nic - you're welcome - I'm glad you found the drawings useful.

The bar counter can also be supported with steel bars secured in wall under countertop and or corbels.

Refer to the countertop fabricator for advice on the particulars.

A bar type island is great for entertaining.

Well...doesn't it all depend on one's floor plan and design? Arguing about various types of islands, in the abstract, is simply pointless. Everyone has an opinion. And everyone's opinion is right...for them, and their frame of reference.

Without a floor plan here for reference, all the comments here are just personal preference. Which is fine, but it doesn't resolve very much.

So...my answer to the OP's question is...Yes! or, No! or, mebbe, I dunno!

Virgil - the poster's question had nothing to do with whether the island was one level or two. He had asked how to finish off the baseboard trim details on the bottom of the two level island he wanted to do.

I'm under the impression he did indeed get the information he was after and that it is resolved. Whether or not it's resolved for those who disagree with his design decision about a one or two level island and think that their answer is the only correct answer, well that's another story...

CCD, after scrolling back through all the thread, I think you are correct. Thank you. Like many extended threads, the initial subject may often get lost in the ensuing discussion, and those who come to discussion late may be confused as to the true topic.

I plead guilty. Mea culpa! :-)