I have the red velvet rose sold as Rose Edouard which I purchased from Ashdown. What a disappointment when I realized it had nothing in common with the real Rose Edouard and bloomed only once. Good thing its flowers are so beautiful. I have also concluded that it is probably a Damask/red China cross.

About 10 years ago someone gave me cuttings of a rose which belonged to her grandmother who was born about 1900. She said it bloomed only once and it has never repeated for me, but it is medium pink (with blue tones), smells sweet, has light green leaves, and looks like a Damask-China cross of the Rose Edouard type although I have never seen the true Rose Edouard for comparison. Hips are round, not elongated or funnel-shaped like Damask hips.

Lindsey

Hello, I have been searching for Rose Eduardo too and have enjoyed and learnt a lot from this discussion. Wanted to find out if your Rose Eduardo had bloomed bellegallica9a. Do post some pictures if possible. I grew up with this rose and another variety that looks and is likely the Maggie. I am from India and these roses were such an important part of our lives. Used for weddings, rose jam, rose water, offered to our gods, or just around the home for their beauty and enchanting fragrance. I miss them so very much here in the US. Thanks, Sarina

No, Sarina, it hasn't bloomed yet. It's perfectly healthy and grows, but no flowers. I am beginning to wonder if I have the once-blooming rose that stefanb8 had. It would make sense out of this one not blooming yet.

Thanks so much for responding right away. Hope it blooms before too long and is indeed the Eduardo. Last year I too had stumbled upon the article by Mia, the Swedish Journalist and rose lover, and wrote to her, but never heard back.

https://m.facebook.com/652505940/posts/10157017611145941/

I found on Mia Grondhal's nursery's Facebook page this post on the Edouard rose she brought to Sweden from India and wrote an article on. Yes, indeed, the Edouard is a medium pink, just the way I have seen it in India!

Bellegallica9a, has your Rose Eduoard bloomed? If so, please post a picture! Eager to see if it is a pink one! Thanks and regards, Sarina

Hi Sarina. No it didn't. I gave it away to a friend two or three weeks ago. I was tired of waiting and decided it couldn't possibly be the right one. I just heard back from her. Still hasn't bloomed.

I'm going to place an order with Greenmantle for theirs, since I know it's the pink one.

Hi Bellegallica9a. How disappointing that it didn't bloom as it should have. Greenmantle seems like the perfect choice. Best wishes.

My Rose Edouard is a pretty pale rosy pink with a lovely fragrance I associate with this rose variety in India! My first bud....

..this is the Peter Beales Rose 'Edouard', discussed earlier in this thread, which he got from India. Photos taken in July this year.

I've finally gotten a plant from Greenmantle that seems to be a very plausible 'Rose Edouard' (I apologize for the lack of photos, but the plant is new and had only one or two small, deformed flowers so far). Its first blooms were a light pink--significantly paler in bud, and to a lesser extent in open flower, than the Beales version that Marlorena has so perfectly photographed, but very close to the one that Sarina just posted. The receptacles did look much like those in Marlorena's last photo, narrow and glandular, obviously due to the influence of 'Autumn Damask'. If I were forced to guess, despite suggestions that Rosa x borboniana found in India are actually 'Rose Edouard' and assuming that the paler rose is actually the true 'Rose Edouard', I would be tempted to postulate that the Beales version might actually be the "brilliant pink" Rosa x borboniana that Jacques raised from seed of 'Rose Edouard' instead of its parent.

Stefan

Thanks Stefan and Marlorena! My first flower is also ill formed. I got the straggly plant in early June... it was grown from a cutting. Hope the blooms will be more regular next season. The challenge is to keep the plant healthy and alive. Any advice? Should I keep it in my unheated garage. I am in zone 5b or 6a. Buffalo NY.

Have you kept other young roses successfully over the winter in your unheated garage? If so, then it might not be a bad idea. Here in zone 7, winter temperatures probably aren't much of a threat, although it is prone to blackspot. I'm trying to bulk mine up a bit before heading into its first winter outside of California, and have started a second plant from a cutting (that one might just end up overwintering indoors under lights, unless it also puts on plenty of growth before winter arrives).

Two more Edouard photos. As a bud and the other which shows the deformity. The rose has held up remarkably well with a sweet scent akin to rose water. Have you started a new Edouard cutting from the Greenmantle rose you bought? I wish one could find out where Greenmantle got its Edouard. Would help learn about its origins. Mine is from Hummingbird Roses, a small nursery in Michigan.

You could phone call Marissa at Greenmantle. She would know. She is very knowledgeable. She does not e mail.

Yes, the cutting was from the Greenmantle version--actually, it was a bit of a happy accident that one of the small stems (with just a few small leaves at the top) broke off near the base of the plant with a little heel attached. I put it in a small amount of water and was surprised to see it send out a healthy white root rather quickly. After carefully potting it and closing a bag around those few remaining leaves, it finally seems to be putting out a little new growth, so I think it's on its way.

Other than the very similar color, I'm not quite sure from these newest photos that the shape of the receptacle or even the leaves on my plant are quite identical to yours. It might not be fair to make a comparison, being so new and probably experiencing different growing conditions, and of course I didn't manage to snap any photos yet.

I just recently joined Facebook after an absence of three years because I wanted to look at a lot of beautiful roses. There are many, but even more I seemed to see garish roses or those with violent stripes, and some almost looked as though they were made of plastic. It's probably just me, but after that to come back and read about a rather obscure little pink rose and to admire Marlorena's lovely photos of it, was a healing experience and made me realize once again that my heart and soul belong to old or, at the very least, old-appearing roses. It was good to come home again, but please forgive this off-topic diversion from your lovely discussion.

Thanks Ingrid for your sweet post. I am partial to old garden roses myself, especially the ones with the damask scent! Rose Edouard has a special place in my heart given its history. I had been looking for it for many years and was delighted to find it finally at a woman nursery in Michigan called Hummingbird Roses.

Stefan,I asked Hummingbird Roses about the Rose Edouard mother plant. The owner wrote back that her mother plant is from Greenmantle! So, my plant and yours, may be related!

Sheila, thank you for your suggestion to contact Marissa at Greenmantle. It waa such a delight to talk with her. She was so helpful and knowledgeable. She mentioned that the Rose Edouard at Greenmantle was brought from France, from Andre Eves roses, I think. I heard the Andre right, but not the latter so well, but I assume it was Andre Eve roses. She also mentioned that the color and fragrance varied with the climate and the nutrition the rose receives.

Thank you for finding and sharing this, Sarina! Now we may have at least some breadcrumb trail to try to follow in tracing the European chain of custody for the Greenmantle clone. Even though there can be a little variability expected due to environment, the supposed 'Rose Edouard' variants seem to be consistently distinguished by differences in flower color and possibly petal count. It's fascinating to see how at least two clones were apparently being confused almost from their very first introductions in Europe. Looking at those earliest references on HelpMeFind for 'Rose Edouard' and Rosa x borboniana (through about the middle of the 1800s) makes the situation seem pretty clear, at least once you filter out much of the hearsay noise. Particularly relevant are the personal attestations by the original introducers. One really needs to look at the older references for both to get a sense of the full picture.

The clone sold as 'Rose Edouard' by Vintage Gardens was described by them as having flowers "bright rose pink, often rather perfectly formed, often loose and muddled in form, with a buttoned eye." If theirs is the Beales clone from India, as they seem to infer, that might make perfect sense--and I think it agrees nicely with Marlorena's photos. On page 20 of Peter Beales' book Classic Roses, Beales states that, "Since last year I have had a 'Rose Edward' from Trevor Griffiths in New Zealand, which was originally obtained by Nancy Steen from a grower in New Delhi as the genuine Calcutta form."

The rose offered in the past by André Eve as R. borboniana (perhaps intended to indicate 'Rose Edouard', based on their description) is described by them as having "pale carmine pink flowers, double and fragrant." The photo on their website is quite pale: https://www.roses-andre-eve.com/rosiers-arbustes-a-grandes-fleurs-collection/2281-r-borboniana.html

Stefan

Enjoyed reading your detailed response. Wanted to share this informative article about the Rose Edouard in India. https://scroll.in/article/1014448/tracing-the-history-of-panneer-rose-a-flower-closely-tied-with-the-culture-of-india

Marlorena, where was the Rose Edouard, that you posted pictures of, blooming? I wrote to Peter Beales Roses, enquiring about their Rose Edouard, in October 23. I heard back from Tina Limmer. She said " We stopped growing it as it was not being purchased for a few years. We think that the original was probably from Mottisfont or possibly Sissinghurst." Interesting, considering Peter Beales said it was from India.

@Sarina Paranjape

Sarina,

The rose is in the garden at Mannington Hall, Norfolk, England.. Most of their roses came from Beales originally.

I think the person you need to be in contact with is David Stone, former curator of Mottisfont, now retired but still active in the rose world. He is one of the few remaining rosarians from the old days, so to speak. He might have some knowledge of the provenance of this rose at Mottisfont or Beales.

You could probably get a message to him via the Historic Roses Group as he is likely to still be a member - he writes articles for them sometimes. This is their email address, I'm sure they could pass a message on if you wanted to go down this route. Their Chairman is Michael Marriott, formerly of David Austin Roses, now retired. He is always very helpful..

info@historicroses.org

Thank you, Marlorena, for your helpful reply. I will write to David Stone as advised. Thank you.

I did write to the Historic Roses Group and received a kind reply from Michael Marriott. He said he would forward my question on the provenance of Rose Edouard at Beales to Mr David Stone. But I never heard back from Mr Stone.

@Sarina Paranjape

Hi Sarina,

I'm sorry to hear that David did not get back to you.

I just wrote a message to say I would get in contact with Ian and Tina Limmer at Beales, but reading back on the thread, I see you did that a few months ago already.

We seem to have arrived at a dead end. Hopefully some more information can be found at some point but too many with valuable knowledge have sadly passed on in the rose world, in the UK..

Thank you Marlorena. In fact I wrote Michael Marriott once more to see if he had forwarded my email to David Stone but didn't hear back from him either.

I did write to Tina Limmer once again, drawing her attention to the reference in Peter Beales book about him getting Rose Edouard from Nancy Steen etc. She acknowledged she had forgotten that reference. Also mentioned that they had lost their Rose Edouard to a cold frost some time in 1990. So Beales may no longer have Rose Edouard in their collection anymore.

Update on my Rose Edouard. She bloomed. Here are some pictures.

I lost my 2 year old Rose Edouard to black spot. It was in a pot in my unheated garage in Buffalo doing quite well until I decided to move it out to the porch. We had bouts of heavy cold rain and despite my very best efforts, I could not save it. Given how difficult it is to get Rose Edouard I may never succeed in getting its replacement any time soon. I was attached to this rose, not just for its exquisite fragrance, but also because it reminded me of my childhood in India. Alvida, mere dost, as they say in Hindi! Or, in English, Adieu, my friend!

I'm sorry you lost that rose Sarina, what a shame, after all the trouble you went to, to obtain it.

It's one of those roses that appears to be on the way to virtual extinction in my part of the world too.

Yes, Marlorena, it feels awful to lose that rose. Given its significance, I sure hope it will not become extinct. Fortunately, last summer I gifted my daughter in Atlanta a Rose Edouard plant from Rose Petals Nursery (RPL). She tells me it is doing well. Even has a few buds. I hope she will have the joy of seeing it thrive. The weather in Atlanta surely works in its favor. I had once asked Cydney Wade of RPL about the provenance of her Rose Edouard mother plant. She had got hers from Gregg Lowery/Vintage Gardens. Gregg had indicated to me that his Rose Edouard was from Peter Beales. The Rose Edouard I lost was from a cutting of a Greenmantle Rose Edouard ( originally sourced from Andre Eve). I am eager to see what the blooms from my daughter's plant will look like. Mine ( Andre Eve original source) were a light pink!

Sarina, that's interesting isn't it? I wonder where Andre Eve got his from, I would have thought he imported it from Beales, but he may have got it from Sangerhausen, Germany or an Italian nursery? whereas we established that the Beales rose came from a New Delhi, India plant via Nancy Steen, by Beales own admission.

I hope to see photos of your daughter's rose in due course. It will be something to look forward to I think.

Absolutely, Marlorena! Will post photos of my daughter's rose for sure. I will be seeing her next week, hopefully, in time to see the blooms! The provenance of this rose is so fascinating! I was disheartened to find out that Beales doesn't stock it anymore. I don't even see it in the Andre Eve catalog or website anymore. Should write to them to confirm. I have found it in websites of some Australian and NZ nurseries...

Sarina, Loubert's in France sell it in Europe. I'm not sure if it's the same as the Beales clone, it looks a bit lighter that shown in my photos earlier, but there's just the one picture. Reminds me more of the one you lost.

Loubert France

Thanks, Marlorena. Will check out Loubert. I also asked Andre Eve if they stocked Rose Edouard. They said no. So, two leading known sources of Rose Edouard ---Andre Eve and Peter Beales--who have supplied to important rosarians/nurseries in the US-- no longer have Rose Edouard for sale. All the more reason to save this rose. In Feb I reached out to someone in Texas who had put a post on Houzz many years ago seeking Rose Edouard. Told her about Rose Petals Nursery and she ordered 2! She is an avid rose grower so her plants will survive and thrive!

These are photos of Rose Edouard blooms in Atlanta. The rose was bought from Rose Petals Nursery(RPL) This Rose Edouard is a darker pink, significantly darker than the Rose Edouard I had sourced from Hummingbird Roses. In terms of the scent, the one from Rose Petals Nursery is fragrant but less than the one from Hummingbird Roses.

This does look similar to the rose from Peter Beales.

@Sarina Paranjape

Sarina, thanks for those lovely photos, and yes it does look like the Beales one, I notice the hip is similar too. Your daughter is lucky to have it !.. Atlanta must be a good place for roses..

Thanks Marlorena 😊 yes, Atlanta is great for roses. I am hoping Stefan will give an update on his Rose Edouard. His was sourced from Greenmantle.

Hi Sarina, my plant from Greenmantle and the cutting I rooted are still alive, but they are still on the small side (blackspot is probably a major reason for their slow progress). I haven't seen many flowers yet because of their small size and blackspot issues, but the plants seem to be okay otherwise.

Thanks Stefan for your reply. If possible, please post photos of your blooms. My plant was from a cutting sourced from a plant from Greenmantle. Unfortunately I lost my plant to blackspot this month. It had pale pink blooms that were incredibly fragrant. Please scroll up to see photos of Rose Edouard blooms I posted last June which are a pale pink. Are yours like this? I also posted photos of Edouard blooms from a plant bought from Rose Petals Nursery. Much darker and less fragrant than the Greenmantle variety. Marlorena too thinks it looks like the Beales rose. Just today I visited Roses Unlimited in South Carolina and bought a Rose Edouard that I spotted quite unexpectedly among hundreds of roses! Not sure where Roses Unlimited sourced its Rose Edouard. But I am eagerly waiting to see what these flowers will be like!

I hope that I will be able to get a decent photo of mine when it blooms this year--I never got anything worth photographing last year, but it was a terrible year. However, I can tell you that had a similar color to yours--rather light pink, not medium, matching the hue found in your photos. The botanical features all align strongly with a China-Damask background, and the floral receptacle was very narrow and quite glandular, much as you would find in Autumn Damask--and also similar to those in Marlorena's photos. It seems to me that although those two (Beales and Greenmantle) are likely to be different clones, they are very closely related, and both seem like reasonable candidates for the original Rose Edouard.

On the other hand, your photos of the Rose Petals clone that you photographed in Atlanta appear to depict the "Lykke's Not-R. boboniana/Rose Edouard" imposter that only flowers once and has rather cherry-colored flowers with a slightly lighter reverse, and much more rounded receptacles. It's the one that Christopher first began this thread to inquire about. It is richly colored and is wonderfully fragrant, and is an absolutely excellent rose, but it isn't a good match for the original Rose Edouard.

I am also curious to hear a final verdict about the Roses Unlimited clone.

Stefan

Thanks for your detailed response. Looking forward to your photos your Rose Edouard. Which zone are you ? Yes, it will be interesting to see how the Rose Unlimited clone turns out! I will also ask Roses Unlimited about the provenance of their Rose Edouard. No sure if Bellegallica9 is checking this thread anymore but she had got a Rose Edouard from Roses Unlimited . It is interesting that you find the imposter Rose Edouard wonderfully fragrant because I felt it was rather light. Maybe the Atlanta plant needs to mature a bit.

I'm in zone 7 (well, more like a cold 8, lately), near DC. It could be that maturity will help with fragrance on the imposter (I suspect it to be 'Malton'); weather conditions also affect the scent, not to mention differences in noses. It's not only strong but delicious, and a bit unique.

Pat Henry at Roses Unlimited in her email said she does not grow Edouard personally and was not familiar with the Edouard sold at Roses Unlimited greenhouse. I will have to call and hopefully one of the folks who works at the Roses Unlimited greenhouse will be able to tell me. I bought the Rose Edouard there on Friday April 18th at their SpringFest Open Day. Frankly I was surprised to get this response.

That is very strange, especially since it's listed with their Bourbons on the website!

See: https://rosesunlimitedsc.com/2016/12/17/first-blog-post/

Between the "medium pink" color indicated there and the above experience suggesting it may be once-blooming, it probably isn't the same as the Greenmantle/Andre Eve clone, but that would be nice to confirm.

Yes, I too pointed out the same to her. She continues to remain a partner at Roses Unlimited but is not necessarily engaged with what is grown in the greenhouses! I now fear that this may be the imposter Rose Edouard because in his thread Christopher had mentioned that the Rose Edouard sold at Angel Gardens was the Lykke's Not version. A couple of years ago I had asked Angel Gardens and the provenance of their Rose Edouard and was told that they got it from Roses Unlimited! Anyway. Will wait to find out!