Elizabeth, you could certainly hire an architect or residential designer, or even a design-build contracting firm to come up with concepts for you, without getting into detailed CAD permit drawings... I have done that for investors previously...

I think it's cute! At this stage, I'd be happy with just moving the bathroom into the dining room, and enlarging the kitchen (I don't want or use a formal dining room, and prefer just an eat-in area in the kitchen). I'd leave the attic area and stairs for when I could afford more, or need more room.

It is a cute house! My first childhood home was in west Hartford! I still live in Ct. but on the LI sound and added a bathroom almost two years ago.

I will warn you addition and remodel work is very expensive here. I paid around $650 per sq ft for a 103 ft addition... I did hire contractors to give me estimates before having plans drawn to see if I could afford it. I am in the process of redoing a kitchen and the estimates are again expensive with a small addition and slightly less per sq ft if I keep the existing size.

I would ask your realtor if they could recommend contractors who you can hire for just an estimate. It might be worth holding out for a more suited home though for this one already shows well and is not truly a fixer upper or priced as one. Good luck!

That is one weird layout and why would you remodel a kitchen and have the dishwashers and oven doors open into each other. There is room for for dishwasher on the right side of sink. On the surface, it looks ok but remodeling this will cost a bundle. If you can live with layout, i would get a trustworthy construction type to walk the house down and see what’s what. At first glance, i would redesign the whole back of the house. But that isn’t cheap. So really assess what you want and make sure you are realistic about the changes you want. Good luck with your decision.

Another option you might want to consider is moving the kitchen to the dining room, the dining room to the den and the den to the kitchen or just switching the kitchen and den. You could address the kitchen layout issues, identified above and reuse your cabinetry. Having the rooms closer would make creating an open concept easier and your existing bathroom and stair locations would be fine. You could also repurpose the den closet to create an entry closet and better define that area. Obviously, this will require replumbing, etc. but moving the bathroom would have as well.

In my area I don't think you would be able to rework the house like you want to for much less than $100K. Since you are looking at the house for long term it may be worth it to you.

What a charming house! I would move the kitchen to the dining room, remove the wall between the new kitchen and living room, and then turn the "old" kitchen into a master bath and closet for yourself. You'd then have an "open" kitchen and great room, and a nice, two bedroom, two bath home. If you don't need the space, I wouldn't go into the attic for your bedroom. I'd include an island or peninsula in the kitchen for everyday eating, and put a small scale dining table in the front of the great room. Then your seating area would be around the fireplace in the back of the house where you have more privacy.

If you are going to spend a lot of money, I think two full baths would be great for resale.

Otoh, if you park in your garage, I think you might be entering the house from your master bath.

If you want to make all these expensive changes, then look for another house that already has an open layout. The changes you have in mind will cost a fortune in time and $$$. Alternatively, accept the not 100% ideal layout in a lovely little gem. It looks to be in great shape. Later on, get a master bedroom/bath/study for upstairs.

I would get a garden designer to plan a beautiful front yard garden, take off all shutters, and paint the front and back doors cobalt blue.

It’s an adorable house but you do risk that it will cost more than you’ll likely get back to try to make it an open concept. Still, I see potential in converting the kitchen to a laundry/mud room and moving the kitchen to the dining room, but I anticipate this will be over a $100k job.

My main problem with the house is the dormer window that looks like it was randomly stuck on the roof. I would either take it out or try to add a second one.

I can’t really see any advantage to moving the kitchen to the DR The bathroom is where it is to serve both bedrooms which was pretty standard when the house was built . I like open plan but I think this house is very nice the way it is. Nice large LR the kitchen lloks fairly new I love renovating but to me this is nice the way it is and since there is only you why spend a ton of money to change things that really don’t make sense.

This house is super cute and I can see that it's tempting. I own a 1940s bungalow and have been considering doing a big remodel. As everyone can attest, what gets $$$ is moving walls and relocating applicances. And with older homes, there's always the big unknowns when you open a wall. What happens if the find something funky? My GC worked on a job last year where all the finish material was top quality (but dated) but when they cut into the wall, it was subpar construction and stuff had to be redone.

Does your realtor have any opinions on why that house has been on the market for so long, especially since it's in such a great location? Maybe it's due to the floorplan? Or...since it appears they fixed up a lot (new roof, new boiler, looks like fairly recent paint job and kitchen update) the owners may not be in the mood to reduce the price. That said, I would definitely get input from pros. My experience is that you need an architect to advise on how to improve the layout and then separately get a GC to bid to offer an estimate for all that work. (Don't rely on the architect's estimate. Today the cost of building materials is super high, due to all the recent natural disasters). Right now it's boom time for remodeling, so it may be hard to find a GC who is willing to give an estimate since you don't own the house, so definitely ask your realtor to give a recommendation. Just to play devil's advocate, if you were planning to spend $100K on this remodel, could you use that extra money to buy a different house that needs less work? And to really be devil's advocate, can you ask your realtor to try to suss out more info from the seller's realtor? Since the current owners did a lot to the house, had they ever considered remodeling to change the floorplan? What did they come up with? In my case, I have plans for a big remodel but have decided it's not worth the expense. Maybe they started down that route too? Not sure how good your realtor is on sussing out the nuanced info from other realtors, but any info on that would be helpful.

I can't believe it, but that is the exact layout of my long-departed grandmother's home. They raised 4 kids in that floorplan (it had a basement, too). I do not see a single problem with that floorplan, especially when you consider that bathroom is central to everything--looks convenient to me! How often would you be using that dining room anyway, if it's just you and your dog?

If you have extra money after moving into the home, you could probably use it for sprucing up the landscaping, the front walkway, and maybe paint to whatever your style is. It is really a cute home.

What is the issue? I think once you move in, you will see that the kitchen isn't really that far away. Perhaps add a wet bar with small fridge in the den or living room to keep water and snacks close by. But in general, it's a small home, so the kitchen is only one room away.

That house is adorable. I would move in and enjoy the heck out of it, and I wouldn't sink a lot of money into trying to make it something that it is not.

Thank you guys for all of the different opinions! They are both exciting and grounding.

It's about $270/sq ft and if they come down to the market average of $205 (I won't buy it for more), than that will be a bargain for the super-sought after area.

My thinking is that most houses are at least $300k for this area and way more space than I need. It sounds more fun* to get a house for "cheap" and put $100k into it, rather than pay an extra $100k up front. Most other small houses I've seen aren't aesthetically pleasing.

I think this is still on the market because (a) it's small and (b) like somebody mentioned, I think the current owners renovated and are still holding out for getting their money back (they've owned it for 22 years and I don't think they have a mortgage). I would be buying this outright, if that info effects anything.

I also love brick houses. And - I'm so glad I'm fairly anonymous online - I've caught the Fixer Upper "open concept" and "painted brick exterior" bug. I'm so sorry, but it's happened!

Elizabeth

*It sounds fun to me to come up with a five-year master plan of a reno. I don't know if that's done or realistic. I can save about $30k/year. Maybe it wouldn't be so "fun" once I was living there and always having a work in progress.

I see what you mean about their asking price being high. It looks like they already cut the price 50-60K since first listing it, and you'll be asking for another 65K cut, or another 24%. That's a lot. Your offer might be spot-on for the 'hood, but since they initially listed it so high, they may have a tough time coming down on the price, esp since their realtor is selling all the recent updates. I wonder if your realtor could suss out the likelihood of them accepting such a low offer. (i.e. they may have gotten similar offers and declined). Good luck. I'd be curious to hear how it works out.

OK - let's think about this. First, offer whatever you wish, because no matter what the agent is legally bound to present the offer. But, be prepared for a quick "NO" and anger on the seller side which could affect further negotiations. While they have done "updates" they did the cheapest forms possible. You will be "undoing" many of them. If you are making a cash purchase that gives you some leverage so keep that in mind. When doing a cash deal, you are assuming that you will have to come up with cash for all your improvements. So there's the rub. If you envision, let's say $100,000 in changes, and you don't have that additional cash on hand, all the changes will be out of pocket, or based on some type of loan. If you think you have $30K a year, then do the math, it will take you at least 3-4 years to accomplish the changes. Do you want to live in a construction zone for 4 years? Also, if you contemplate moving walls, let's say relocate that bathroom, then you probably will want to open up the space from the kitchen to the living area. Now we are talking major work, more than $30K. I'm just walking you through the logic of the process. Once you start demobilization, it is generally most "cost effective" to complete the infrastructure work for the "total plan" up front. And that is where a lot of the major costs are. See where I'm headed? So, I think you have a specific number you want this house for, but are you willing to "walk away" if they don't get to your number? If you have a number you won't go away from, offer that with the language that this is your "firm and final offer". Of course, that leaves no room for negotiation. Sorry this got long, but I wanted to encourage you to think through the process. btw, if you really want to move that bathroom and open things up and update a bathroom and a kitchen, we are probably talking $200K not $100K. Hoping a good deal for both parties can be worked out. If you want to make a deal, I don't recommend going in way below asking price. It creates too negative a position. Good luck!

These replies are exactly what I needed. Flo - I appreciate you writing your thoughts to a complete stranger! I don't plan on making an offer until they lower the price. And yes, I am willing to "walk away". I am a big "planner" and so this whole thread may be a moot point if the sellers never work their way down to my price or somebody else scoops it up. (Then again, if you all said a large reno would cost under $50k, I probably would have purchased it for a higher price).

$200k is too much for me to put in. If I was getting a bargain (ie my purchase price + total reno price = less than $400k), then I would be interested. But it sounds like this isn't realistic. I also don't think I'd want to compromise on my "dream reno" with this house - I either want to buy it to do-it-all, or look for something else.

I love the brick, love the size, loooove that it's not already perfect. I love that it would be a four minute bike ride from my work. However, the fact that I'm imagining biking to work from home in a retro, pastel, banana-seat bike with a flower in the basket *when I don't even like biking*, leads me to believe I'm getting a little caught up in my fantasy!

Just swaping the kitchen & the dining room & opening up the new kitchen to the living room would be a huge improvement.

Hi Eliza!

Fun puzzle!

I see what you mean with the bathroom, plus, I would want my back door in my kitchen for grilling out, doggy with wet paws, etc.

Is there a way to turn the dining room/bathroom to an ensuite? Then make one of the other bedrooms part of the kitchen space?

LOVE the idea of creating a second bedroom/bathroom with the huge attic space too.

It looks like the living room doesn't have much overhead lighting, how high are the ceilings?

Is the dryer gas? I see it's an electric stove.

CUTE place!! Can't wait to hear what you choose.

A teardown would be cheaper. But s teardown isn’t what is needed here. What’s needed is to change your definition of need vs want.

Are you willing to leave the main floor "as is" and spend any monies available to add value in either the basement or upper level??? If not...don't buy it.

Buy it at the price you can afford. Live in the cute house as is. Fix up the yard and improve the curb appeal. Paint the interior beautiful but neutral colors, do it one room at a time if you need to. Bike to work, spend time having fun there as a single person working / living /playing with dog etc ...and slowly fixing it up cosmetically (paint, landscaping, removing shutters, pressure washing the white drips off the brick, putting in a back yard patio & bbq area, fencing etc). Sell in 5 years for a nice sum and buy another house with an easier to fix floor-plan. By then your situation might have changed and you will not have sunk a lot of cash into an investment you can't move.

The best way to determine where the house is within the market is to have your agent prepare for you a detailed market analysis of similar homes within the neighborhood. Review those that have sold recently. Base your offer on the condition of the subject property and that local neighborhood analysis. To stick to a per square foot average doesn't make sense. Determine what the house is worth to the market and then figure out what it is worth to you.

Asking the seller to pay for your upgrades because you want an open concept plan is not a valid strategy. It is faulty thinking that the seller owes you, the buyer, the amount needed to change the floorplan to reflect your HGTV preferences (that's what you are doing when you want to discount for your 'improvements'). They don't owe you that discount. If the property needs actual work, not cosmetic changes, then a discount off the market price makes sense.

OTOH, the seller may be asking too much. Obviously they started out high. Are they in the market now? We don't know but your agent should be able to get the analysis completed so you both can come up with an offering strategy after reviewing valid comps.

I think the floor plan is great as it is - If you want to spend money, put it towards a beautiful master suite on the upper level.

I don't understand the issue of placement of the bathroom. It's close to the bedrooms and it's not a football field length from the living areas. Without knowing more, changing to an open floor plan - moving plumbing would be $100,000 at least and I doubt whether those changes would add significant value to the property - adding a full on master would add value.

Dystunctional to me would be no bathroom at all on the first level with one bathroom upstairs (in a two level house obviously). Many older homes were built with only one bathroom to serve the bedrooms on the second floor and it is a awkward to go up and down and send guests up and down for toileting which is why many older homes have the tiny half bath added - often in the kitchen using what used to be the pantry. I grew up in neighborhood of Queen Ann homes built at the turn of the century and most of the kitchens had a small half bath which had been added after World War II.

As to what actual FMV is in that area, I obviously have no idea. However, many people like myself would consider it to be move in ready with some minor cosmetic changes because not everyone wants an open plan house. Some people actually like different rooms :-)

The floor plan of the house is quirky but the house is adorable and it is in a great area. It looks like an easy walk to Blue Back Square. Did your agent tell you they are that overpriced and what she thought it should go for? I was update not change the completed space - it is in good shape and I think you would get a bad return on your investment. I would take advantage of the potential of the unfinished space if you feel you need the room.

The 4 minute commute to work would have me snapping up that property ASAP! We bought a similar kind of home 2 years ago (cute, not perfect, lots of potential) but put off major changes out of the gate. What we've discovered is that we've come to appreciate the separate rooms / non-open-concept flow, and we're now focusing on small cosmetic changes that are making a big difference in our happiness here but don't break the bank (landscaping, exterior painting, replacing interior doors). You could do something similar while you build up your savings to do a bigger reno that makes your heart sing. :)

Beware of the market in the Hartford area…actually, most of CT. Do a little research and find out about why all the big companies have left the state. I have four friends who have moved from that area and it took them years to sell their houses and they suffered a great loss in value.

If you do go ahead with your plans, put in a low offer. You may be surprised. Just keep in mind if you try to sell in the near future (and as long as the present Governor is in office), then, you too, will lose money.

"According to the same data, the Connecticut communities of New Haven, Waterbury, Hartford and Bridgeport occupy four of the ten bottom spots on the list. They rank at numbers 291, 293, 295 and 296 out of 300 respectively."

https://patch.com/connecticut/manchester/4-ct-cities-among-worst-real-estate-markets-u-s-new-study-says

that's one charming house

it might be it's still on the market by being small house-families usually want more space, individuals-less work in maintenance..but I wouldn't know of course

reno would be major $$$$, and no, it's not fun to live in construction zone, at all.

if it grabs your heart go for it as is and do cosmetic changes (please don't paint the brick though))

if you realize that however cute it is it's not a house for you, in terms of layout, then don't go for it

We got ourselves into remodel and addition of fixer upper(which your house doesn't seem to be), and it was exactly as they say, twice as long and twice as expensive than we thought (I think more, but we never calculated the final price as not to know that number lol). we're in HCOLA as you are too; not in CT, in CA, but I did spent 7 years allover in CT, approximately where roarah lives-Long Island sound side.

We din't live in our place during that gut remodel of course, it was torn to studs- but was painful enough. Still catching a breath.

You never know what they find when they open the walls. And our house was build in late sixties, not forties.

It IS a very cute house. Cute and gracious. Save your money for unexpected things that are bound to happen sooner or later in any house, and more "fun" cosmetical changes, and embrace it-or not.

Judy, present governor is not running for re election so he will not be left in office. West Hartford is a separate town than Hartford and still has many UTC headquarter executives residing there. The city of Hartford is a different story and is a real estate issue. Comparing West Hartford to Hartford would be the same as comparing Bridgeport to fairfield or Westport. One's median sales is 600k higher than the other sometimes. Connecticut is a state with a huge disparity of income issue and the effect is town by town not county to county.

Adorable house in a great location, probably why the owners are holding on price. Blue Back Square is a huge draw. I lived in Avon/Simsbury for over 30 years. I’m with Judy, though. We moved out of state four years ago in part because you could see CT’s financial woes coming. We sold very quickly for a great, but fair price. 24 month’s later our buyers were transferred and sold for $30k less, and we know they preserved the house well. Now, his cousins are looking to move from Avon, and the pricing for their house would be about $100k less than when we moved, for a larger house in a more central part of town. West Hartford is still a big draw, but hold onto your emotions and recognize that real estate in that area is likely to continue to decline. Malloy being gone (thankfully) is not going to miraculously solve the issues.

Now there is real, current "market" advice!

Biggest thing that I see wrong with it is the atrocious paint colors. I suspect that by the time you've finished painting every room in that house, you'll have nearly conquered your 'fixer-upper' urges.

One thing to mention is top closely inspect the condition of the exterior brick. (Lack of extended eaves can lead to moisture control problems).

I don't know what is normal in the area but the garage is pretty much a joke. (Is there even enough room to get in and out of car in there?) The exterior back wall of the garage doesn't look quite right but that might be the camera angle.

New 100 amp electrical service. 200 amp is pretty much the standard here in my neck of the woods. How many circuits still available (to support addt'l. wiring in the attic or future AC)? Oh, and it's going to be really, really hot up there. Insulation, climate control, moisture barriers, etc. in the attic will be a significant challenge if you follow thru on wanting improved living space up there.

No air conditioning that I see; radiant heat so no ductwork in place for central AC.

There is a lot to comment on!

Regarding need vs want - I don't "need" any of this; I have a perfectly good house right now. But I don't consider it a very pretty home and I would like to eventually move up in neighborhoods, so I don't want to put much money into it. I also think I'll be buying/reno-ing for the entertainment value. Also, I'm in my mid-thirties. I'm not getting married or having a kid anytime soon, so maybe this is my new-exciting-activity for the decade.

I don't think my low asking price is me feeling I'm "owed a discount" from the sellers. I have an amount I'm willing to pay. If nobody is willing to pay higher, why not sell it to me? If they find somebody who likes it more than me and pays more, good for all of them!

I could definitely live with the downstairs as-is for a while.

I go back and forth on the house. Similar real estate searches yield nothing of interest. But also, I can wait. I'm in no actual rush to buy.

I do dream of these things, however:

As to the west Hartford market. Sales are down for the first two months of this year compared to last year but they are within historic averages for this time of year in the Hartford county's most active real estate town and thus are not at this point indicative of a problem. This does not mean to imply that this house is priced right, it is not or it would have sold. As to houses in west Hartford being a safe investment. ROI in west Hartford faired better over all than other towns in ct but only average nationally.

Since 2000:2000 Q1 - 2017 Q4

44.09% over all increase

2.05%yearly increase

Oh right - my realtor, who sold me my current house, suggested $290k. Yes, lots above my $250k limit, but also ~$35k under their asking price.

..the more I look at this house the more I fall for it lol

They just built more graceful houses back then. What can I say.

you're right that so much does depend one one's circumstances and level of energy. I for example can hardly comprehend already how I was able to do all stuff I did in my mid-twenties. I remember mid-thirties too and still am surprized at my own abilities lol. And it wasn't that long ago.

Can you fit an eat in corner in the kitchen? That's where the best conversations usually end up to be anyway..somewhere close to meals and fire and all that jazz. True can be dining or patio or many places..but if you can put a table with chairs in there for now at least, will also make a difference.

I love painted cabinets too(and stained..I don't discriminate as long as they are beautiful and make sense), and pretty tiles..and I think different countertops might be better for this exact house, so while there's nothing wrong with the kitchen per se, I can see one wanting to personalize it all they want.

It's all these invisible things that no one sees yet has to handle anyway, that make remodels into long sometimes very expensive venture.

I won't go into everything we encountered with our own remodel, but I'd compare it to going to the dentist..and I really, really don't like to go to the dentist. No one sees the results so much lol, yet one has to.

OP, if your max limit to purchase a home is $250k, then you need to look at homes priced closer to your $250k max rather than looking at homes in the $325k range. You are setting yourself up for failure. Have your Realtor show you homes within your budget, otherwise it is a waste of time and effort for all involved. $325k is 30% beyond your max budget.

This house is Minimal Traditional (yes that is actually a real style) and it looks like what it is supposed to look like. I'd landscape but there's no really point in trying to turn the outside into anything else, at least if you expect any return on investment.

If budget is a concern, then never paint natural brick. You are setting yourself up for an expensive maintance schedule by doing so.

My purchase max isn't $250k but if I'm going to put in $100k all at once, I don't want a $400k mortgage on top of that. If I pay for a $400k house, I want to pretty much like it from the get-go.

I also don't want a 3,000 square foot house. There really aren't many <1500sq feet homes that cost billions and billions.

Do I need to be *so* concerned with ROI? Can't I want to put in my hard earned cash because I want to enjoy it, rather than think about eventual resale? Is this just not done?

It's an adorable house. Very of its time and perfectly livable. It has a telephone shelf!

See the little side door, with the long bedroom closet behind the wall?

Put a door in that wall to make the end of bedroom closet your coat closet.

Or just recess it and make a nook with hooks and a bench for your coat, keys, purse.

Or, put the door through to the bedroom (shortening the closet) and use that room as your dining room (easy to move about with two doors), and the study as your master, and the dining room as your den.

In the kitchen, put a short oak bookcase sideways next to the range, you need a little landing spot there for spoons, spatulas, and salt and such.

Some substantial tidying up of the yard (and taking down the shutters on the living room bay) will make it absolutely charming.

Sure, I think it's done a fair amount of the time. It's done by anybody who replaces a perfectly functional but "dated" kitchen with a new one, especially if the cost of the housing locally is relatively low.

I am doing it right now. I am not thinking of return on investment in my remodel, not particularly. If I were, I would be doing things more cheaply than I am. Because the fact that I haven't lost any money so far as the value of my house goes up has little to do with the quality of the renovation and much to do with the fact that all housing values in my particular neighborhood have risen since I bought.

But then you do have to be willing to lose $100K if you spend it, or a portion of that, if the housing market does not go up in your area.

Plenty of people do that, too. Especially at the top of the market. Expensive houses often resell for less than the cost to build, especially if you consider semi permanent interior decoration.

Hi Elizabeth,

We used Google Mockup for much of our design, there are a number of apps available as well. https://www.curbed.com/2017/5/12/15626862/home-improvement-apps-renovation-android-iphone

Can you bring a friend or 2, have the realtor let you in, and spend several hours doing some serious measuring? This is an absolute must. This house also has a large back & front yard that should be measured as well.

If you google earth the address, you'll see a pic of the house that shows the property in a very different light.

We looked at an old farmhouse up in Dobbs Ferry several years ago, the house had been empty for quite some time, it was walking distance to Metro North, quick ride right into Grand Central, the asking price was around $290, the real estate agent told us not to bother putting in an offer lower than $250-ish in not so many words. The house sold a month later for $189, we were so mad at ourselves. Ugh!

Eliza, I not only understand making an emotional purchase I did it. I also have made two very expensive changes, one is more of a super-adequacy, a gunite pool in Ct. and as mentioned above I added a master bathroom. i am looking into a kitchen redo that will provide more function but my existing kitchen is already nice so this will eat most of my equity. I am still most likely going to spend that money because I, or more accurately my kids, are very attached to this house and its neighborhood.

However, our 401k, CHETs and IRAs are strong, my mortgage is paid off and my husband has been in remission for two years. Without these safety nets I would not be spending on any more cosmetic changes. For even when you plan to stay put in a house life often throws you a curve ball. Make sure if you need to sell for some unforeseen reason you are not driving yourself into unrecoverable debt.

As long as your eyes are open and not blinded by unrealistic budgets in HGTV style renos and misleading ROI an emotional purchase is ok if other safety nets are existing. Good luck.

Thank you all for the solid advice!

I think it's a cute house but with the present economic condition in CT you might find a better deal. If you are thinking long-term, I might go low ball on the offer as the agent suggested and start with painting and exterior beautification. I have a 70 minute commute to work and I can tell you that the four minute commute would be very very enticing to me in terms of quality of life. An inspection, as others have suggested, will be very important.