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poseidonprincess

I'm new to roses & in Toronto. My three plants died over the winter.

7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago

All three - an Olympiad that suffered with black spot and was weak, a fairly healthy Poseidon and an Apricot driftrose - and all in pots coz I am a renter and have no space to garden in the ground - perished. I am feeling quite low about it. My husband winterized the plants by putting them under the deck where we live and wrapped them loosely in burlap. The winter was not only long but we had several spells below -20C and a few thaw & refreeze cycles as well. How can I prevent this from happening again? I don't want to buy more plants this year (if I do buy, I'll go to Palatine to purchase) only to kill them. My plan was to grow them in large pots for couple years until we moved to our own home. Is this a bad plan for an Southern Ontario gardener? They made me so happy when they bloomed. I am so sad I killed them.

Comments (42)

  • 7 years ago

    Growing any sort of plant in a container puts them in much greater danger to winter cold damage than the same plant growing in the ground. Temps in the minus teens and 20's celsius are pretty much inevitable to produce freeze damage to the root system and therefore death. Wrapping them unfortunately will not help much, if at all. They need to be stored for winter somewhere where temps will remain right around 0C or 32F......not much lower.

    poseidonprincess thanked gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    A rose in a pot and remains outdoors during Winter in my zone is simply a death sentence.

    I live in Ottawa, all my roses in the ground and planted deep (3 inches below the soil). They survive with no problem. I have the Apricot drift which survived but lost most of her canes; its growing vigorously now with new shoots.

    If you are renting and planting in pots only; one way to protect the rose is to dig it up from the pot (as a barefoot) in November (once it goes dormant ) and then dig a hole in the ground and bury the whole rose until next Spring. Re-plant the rose again in pot in the Spring

    good luck !

    poseidonprincess thanked FADI (Zone 5b)
  • 7 years ago

    Thank you both. The more I read, the more despondent I get about being able to grow roses successfully in my current situation. The ground is not available to me, unfortunately. Neither is the garage, which I've heard is acceptable for containers during winter. My husband had suggested buying a large cedar planter and burying the roses in there over winter but it seemed like too much work and expense at the time. I wonder if the roses would have frozen and died anyway, being above ground. I am now thinking about whether a mini/ patio rose from Palatine willI live if I bring it indoors during winter. I'll ask the folks there for advice. I'm quite heart-broken at the loss of the roses. I waited five years to start a garden and when the roses began to bloom, I couldn't believe I had such beautiful flowers of my very own that I could smell, stare at, fuss over and use for cut flowers in the house. Poor plants.

  • 7 years ago

    I'm sorry you lost your roses but please don't give up altogether. Your winter protection probably wasn't enough and this was a particularly bad winter. I lost about half of my potted roses, which is rare for me, and I'm pretty experienced at winterizing. I'm also in a warmer zone than you are. So don't feel bad. If you want to have a few roses around while you're still in your apartment you may have to think of them as annuals. In which case I would suggest you just buy some cheap ones to pot for the summer. Think of them like you would petunias or any annual flower. I know that sounds harsh but it is realistic in your situation. Wait until you are in your new home and have a garden where you can plant roses in the ground to go to the expense of getting the good ones at Palatine.

    poseidonprincess thanked seil zone 6b MI
  • 7 years ago

    Thank you, seil zone & jasminerose, so much. I appreciate your comments and your viewpoints have cheered me up. I never thought of doing that. It's a different way of approaching rose gardening but in a case such as mine, it seems reasonable if I want to enjoy having roses as part of my home. I will absolutely do this. Pink roses are my favourite (thank you for the lovely photo: that is stunning for a mini) and I'll see if I can find a hardy variety for cut roses, like a New Dawn, that I can try to winterize better as an experiment and without the grief of investing in too many plants or expensive varieties.

  • 7 years ago

    I totally understand how you feel. I also lost 3 roses last winter in my Chicago garden, in addition to the casualties from previous years.

    For us cold zones, picking the right type of rose is 80% of the work, which I certainly learned the hard way through trial and error. Now I am mostly left with Austins (and I have to say First Crush surprised me with her winter hardiness last year).

    I suggest insulating your pots with lots of insulation, foams, bubble wraps, etc. all around. That, coupled with the right rose species, might work for your situation.

    poseidonprincess thanked Claire Z5 IL
  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I think i know how you feel. Im also new to roses and yesterday i saw that one of my two roses is dying out. I feel like crying, it had huge red flowers last summer and made me happy looking at it. Also potted.

    poseidonprincess thanked Dani D
  • 7 years ago

    I'm pretty bummed out too. Here in NY we had a pretty brutal winter that just didn't want to leave. I lost quite a few potted grafted roses - Double delight, Julia Child, Oklahoma, Port Sunlight, Lady of Megginch, Heritage, Twilight Zone, Anna's Promise, & Molineux (the only own root that died).

    They were all beauties & I feel bad that they didn't make it. Of the 9 remaining potted roses still living, 7 are own roots from Chamblees or Antique Roses Emporium. So for longevity, own root is the way to go here in the northeast. I also think Seil's advice of thinking of them as annuals will work for me. If a rose catches my eye, I'll buy it and try not to expect it to survive thru the winter.

    Meanwhile, I have a group of empty pots lined up against one side of my deck. I have to figure out what to do with them!

    poseidonprincess thanked view1ny NY 6-7
  • 7 years ago

    In Toronto, what zone are you in? 6? You might be able to grow roses in containers if you just choose really hardy roses. Look at Canadian roses (Artist Series, or Explorer Series) -- there are lots of roses bred in Canada that are actually hardy to zone 3 or 4, and those *might* overwinter for you in pots. If you are wrapping them up, or covering the pots at all, see if there is a place against the building where you can store them. That way some of the residual heat from the structure might keep them minutely warmer than if they were standing out in the yard (in which case, in their pots, their roots will eventually be at the same temperature as the air). You might also look at some Buck roses -- some of them are very hardy.

    poseidonprincess thanked K S
  • 7 years ago

    Thank you all for the commments. It is very helpful to know that I am not alone in experiencing this. I felt like I had done something bad to the plants. KS, I have had trouble figuring out my zone as my own town, Scarborough, is bewilderingly not listed in the government's plant hardiness zone chart. I am right outside Toronto (6a) but the town nearest to me (Markham) is 5b. I suspect I'm in a little pocket because we have snow and icy winds when other areas nearby are experiencing milder weather. Thank you so much for the suggestions. I will take another look at the Canadian rose series (I saw a few at Canadian Tire when I was buying last year. They didn't look as fabulous as the Poseidon but at this stage, I would love finding a rose that will live). I'll also experiment with ways of keeping the new roses warmer this coming winter.

  • 7 years ago
    Look at the Canadian roses. Some of them look really nice like Morden Blush . Very hardy and beautiful. David Thompson is also a beautiful hardy to tip here in Ottawa. Frontenac cover itself with blooms !
    and many others

    This is my Morden Blush
    poseidonprincess thanked FADI (Zone 5b)
  • 7 years ago

    Thank you for the suggestions, FADI. Those are beautiful.

  • 7 years ago

    Fadi, your Morden Blush is stunning. I looked it up on helpmefind & saw your photos. Wow. Any other suggestions for colder zones? Thanks.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Just to help anyone looking for the same info as I am, which is how one might try to help a potted rose survive a cold winter. I found this on an interesting website on roses from Montreal:

    http://espacepourlavie.ca/en/winter-protection-roses

    It has this recommendation:

    "Rose bushes in pots

    Keeping rose bushes in pots on a balcony in the wintertime is risky. Snow accumulation plays a major role in plant survival. Exposure to cold winds and extreme variations of temperature (freezing and thawing) often cause the death of poorly protected plants. If you don’t have the choice, prune the rose bush and remove the leaves. Place it in a Styrofoam insulated box and fill it with dry leaves. Place the box near the wall and cover it with snow, the best winter protection."

    We used those old Styrofoam boxes as coolers back home all the time. I think this is worth a shot because they are not expensive & easy to store. What about removing the plant from the pot and filling the styrofoam box with some soil as well? It's a more insulated, less expensive idea than using a large cedar planter as my husband had wanted to do. We have unreliable snow cover in Toronto but I could certainly pile it up when it does fall. And before the snow comes, maybe even use an old fleece camping blanket to drape over the box. I know I'm sounding crazy, by the way :-)

  • 7 years ago

    Building on the idea described below of burying rose plants in a trench during winter, one would essentially be using the styrofoam boxes in a similar way. The temperature would ensure the plants don't freeze to death but also stay cold enough to remain dormant. Worth a try.

    https://minnesotarosesociety.org/winterizing-roses/

  • 7 years ago

    And from another Minnesota professional:

    "Potted roses can also be laid on their sides and covered with insulated blankets or trenched and buried..."

    http://www.gagasgarden.com/2015/12/winter-rose-protection-with-construction-blankets-by-mn-rose-specialist-deb-kaiser/

    She has a very useful paragraph about cold hardy roses. (I can't copy and paste from the article for some reason.) But I do love how she calls roses in Zone 5 "tender" and "non-hardy" :-) I will definitely look for some hardier Zone 3 varieties to experiment with.

    If I am going to try the styrofoam box method and the insulated blanket method, I will need at least two beautiful new roses to experiment on :-) I will report later in the year on what I will have tried and with what success. Best wishes to everyone with their roses, too. Please let me know what varieties and methods work for you as well.

  • 7 years ago
    I have planted many hardy roses last week.
    These pictures from the internet.

    Lambert close ( very hardy and disease resistant and compact )
    poseidonprincess thanked FADI (Zone 5b)
  • 7 years ago
    Quadra is my new tough hardy climber
    poseidonprincess thanked FADI (Zone 5b)
  • 7 years ago
    Planted John Davis last year
    Hardy climber
  • 7 years ago
    Prairie Joy
    Highly recommended large shrub
    Hardy tough and carefree
    poseidonprincess thanked FADI (Zone 5b)
  • 7 years ago
    Martin Frobisher
    Vigorous hardy shrub
    poseidonprincess thanked FADI (Zone 5b)
  • 7 years ago
    This is my David Thompson planted 2 years a go
    Very tough here in Ottawa and carefree
    poseidonprincess thanked FADI (Zone 5b)
  • 7 years ago
    I have many Austin’s as well but they are not hardy ; they die back to ground and grow from root very fast. The Hardiest Austin’s I have :

    Princess Alexandra of Kent ( half of canes died back , I was surprised!)

    The Generous Gardener seems hardy with decent canes survival

    Strawberry Hill, Mary Rose , Tess, Benjamin Britten, Gertrude Jekyl all seems to have a decent cane survival ( maybe a foot or less but not to ground )


    This is my Princess Alexandra Kent
  • 7 years ago

    Fadi, thanks so much for showing us your hardy roses. Will look into them.

  • 7 years ago

    Thank you, Fadi! I spent some time yesterday looking through the Sheridan nurseries catalogue and checking the big box store flyers. Both Sheridan & Canadian Tire are carrying the Canadian series roses (John Davis, Emily Carr etc) and Sheridan has some very hardy types like the Morden Blush (2b). The only rose outside of the very cold hardy bunch I am looking at is New Dawn, which a few gardereners in my area seem to have had good luck with. In my circumstances, anything outside of this group is asking for heartbreak. Just by the by, Lowe's is advertising their Knock Out rose in a 5 gallon container for $99. I'm new to roses so I had sticker shock. I only paid about $12 for every plant I bought last year :-0

  • 7 years ago
    You can look for Walmart roses
    They have all hardy roses at 11$ a pot
    I tried few last year and they did well
    Good luck !
    poseidonprincess thanked FADI (Zone 5b)
  • 7 years ago

    I lived in the Greater Toronto Area and I have never grown roses in pots. I would think that in our weather, they most likely will not survive. There are lots of roses I have grown and loses plants over the winter season is just one of the things we have to accept. Perhaps put them in the ground at your rental and then dig them up when you move may be a solution.

    poseidonprincess thanked jjpeace (zone 5b Canada)
  • 7 years ago

    Re: New Dawn, that is a huge climber, so probably not a good candidate for your container experiment. Even if you see roses doing well locally, they may not work for you in containers. Remember that you want to find roses that survive a couple of zones colder than yours -- and even then they may not make it.

    Re: knockouts for $99? That is crazy!

    poseidonprincess thanked K S
  • 7 years ago

    Hey Fadi! Thank you for the tips! I found good-looking Morden Blush & Prairie Princess plants at Walmart Markham last night. The John Davis was number 1 on my list but the plants looked awful. They were all out of the Canadian series roses when I got to Sheridan Nurseries but they are also selling them at twice the price. KS, of course you are right. Humber Nurseries is a bit of a drive from me but I saw their 3-gallon Knock Out for $27 in their on-line catalogue & 5-gallon for $89, if anyone is interested. Jjpeace, unfortunately I have no use of the ground but I'm going to try some of these new tips for winterizing above and hope for the best.

  • 7 years ago

    Nice, poseidonprincess. I live in Markham. I will check that Walmart out. Thanks. As for me, I haven’t grown the Canadian series yet. I do have my eye on Canadian Shield but I haven’t seen a lot of reviews on it yet. These days I tend to grow more Austin’s and Kordes. They tend to do well for me.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    http://www.easyeleganceroses.com/roses

    Some of these are hardy to zone 4

    poseidonprincess thanked modestgoddess z6 OH
  • 7 years ago
    Good poseidonprincess

    Check different Walmart branches ; some of them have different series than others.
    Canadian tire has one gallon pot rose with only 8.99 $ !!
    poseidonprincess thanked FADI (Zone 5b)
  • 7 years ago

    Hi Fadi! Thank you. I went to Canadian Tire on Sunday evening and their selection was quite interesting & looked healthy. They had Emily Carr, Canadian Shield & some others that were priced reasonably. I'll go back in a couple weeks when my 'garden' gets settled and get at least one more plant and hopefully the new plants will have a healthy, blooming summer.

  • 7 years ago
    Good poseidonprincess
    I helped my brother to plant hardy roses in his yard. We planted most of the series LOL

    Emily Car
    Martin Frobisher
    Felix levelerc ( climber )
    Hunter
    Morden Sunrise
    Winnipeg Park
    Bill Reid ( beautiful sunny yellow)
    Oscar Peterson
    Lambert closse
    Hope for humanity
    Champlain ( highly recommended non stop ever bloomer)
    Cuthbert Grant
    Prairie Joy
    John Franklin
    Nicolas
    Morden Blush

    We will be planting some few non hardy Austin’s in a part shaded area ( 5 hours of sun) later in the season; all my Austin’s are bouncing back with vengeance after dying back literally to ground or few inches above !

    Good luck
  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    It's a never ending battle I only grow miniature roses now after the two died last winter. And I'm 35 min north of DT. Too bad I'm not in So Cal the roses year round there are so beautiful!

  • 7 years ago

    Fadi, your roses are so beautiful! How is the repeat on the Canadian series? Are any of them fragrant? Did you mean to type Felix LeCler? I'm hoping to get that one from High Country roses if they get it back in.

  • 7 years ago

    Hi Matt! How do you grow your miniatures? I’m curious & thinking about growing them as an alternative until I move, especially if my new plants die. One already look like it has something attacking it...

  • 7 years ago

    Hi Vaporvac

    The Morden canadian series repeats very well. I have the Morden Blush which is very promising. This is her third year and she is hardy and exploded with blooms. Amazing rose !

    the others are quiet new so don't know their performance yet but George Vancouver, John Davis seem very promising roses so far.

    Yes i meant Felix LeClerc , sorry for the mistake. I planted this beauty last month so it is still young. It was highly recommended as a hardy climber



  • 7 years ago

    @poseidon princess, Hi! I grow them in the ground & they get about 2 feet. They do ok in containers but don't get nearly as big.

    poseidonprincess thanked Matt z5b - Greenhouse 10a
  • 7 years ago

    Matt, do they survive winter or do you buy new ones every year?

  • 7 years ago

    Why don't you try to use plant grow lights? i think it's useful for indoor plants in winter.i bought a grow light in the last winter .The 36 LED Beads (24 red & 12 blue) is as
    much as 18w and the red-blue lights ratio is closer sunlight, which
    speeds up development to help plants bloom and grow leaves and seeds in
    perfect health.

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