A friend of my has a second story deck with grape vines with Muscat grapes (I collected a few times to make wine).

In the summer it gives a beautiful shade, and the downside to it vines attract insects and bees especially at the end of the season and you have to constantly clean the deck surface when the grapes fall or you will have a mess on your hands.

Good luck

What zone is your friend in?

Brooklyn. NY

Thank you. That's pretty interesting. I live in zone 5, upstate NY so I want to make sure the longer vines would not be harmed by the more extreme temps. Brooklyn I THINk may be zone 7. I did see on Stark Brothers website that Muscats are hardy zones 5-8. But they say it will be 4-6' tall at maturity. I am guessing that it s because it has been pruned?

I'm not sure if he is doing anything to them, he purchased his house and the vines were there and he is not the type to prune or maintain any landscaping, I wouldn't be surprised if he has someone come out and cut the little patch of grass he got in the front (4x6') area LOL

But I tell you one thing, he has a lot of grapes up there because when I was making wine, I would get good 2-3 cases of grapes.

Wow, that sounds nice! My husband is a homebrewer and he made wine once but it could be better, at least he says so I am a peasant and it all tastes the same to me. Thanks for all your input.

I've seen a house in Astoria queens that has a grapevine neatly going up the side of the house to secong floor. It was strong thick trunk twisted for most of first floor then spread out green by second. Its beautiful like a sculpture.

My grapes are not as neat no matter how I trim on arbor but they can grow very long. Last year I let it stretch over the arbor and a shed I'd say almost 16ft but birds got most of grapes. I normally make a very tasty jelly out of them but a friend did try wine but only got as far a first fermentation. It's a Fredonia concord which ripens fruit earlier and is very cold hardy.

Message me if you need more info.

Thank you. That is good to know. Is the #7 after your name the zone you are in or are you in a colder area? Where in Astoria is the vine attached to the house? ((Sometimes I am in Astoria and I'd like to see that).

Yes, Astoria has a large Greek community they love growing grapes, like my old neighborhood in Brooklyn you find many houses with Gardens, Grapevines and Fig Trees. Every time I go there (almost every weekend ) I come back with tomatoes, long hots, etc fresh from someone's garden.

In regard to the number after the name... I have no idea what this number means, I don't think I've seen any numbers on my previous posts unless this is something new.

When I joined back in the day, it assigned a zone number based on zipcode but no letter.

Although I'm in zone 7 Fredonia is hardy to zone 4 since its in concord family. I've had it for 10yrs now. The most I've gotten in small 8ftx10ft space arbour was 30lbs of grapes, the rest went to birds and squirrels. Last year birds were ruthless and I only got a few bunches. I have rooted both by burying a vine and taking cuttings. We could set up a trade. Pm me.

Ha, I will when I have something.. Right now I have nothing since I only recently moved in here.

Hmm, do you see a # on my posts? I don't. I ised to be in zone 6 but now I am in zone 5. It seems like it is always windy here too. And no rain. ☹️.

I think if you scroll down on edit profile page you can put zone or location either on first page or under "advanced".

What else are you trying to grow? I need a little "down-sizing". Message me.

Grass, just to stop wind erosion. Then we had to dig trenches and install drains because of terrible non drainage. Then we built a retaining wall. I planted a row of about 17 arborvitae on the north side (that is how many I was able to get in the fall from Lowe's for 75% off). I made a little berm because I could see the highh water. They are doing well, having been sprayed with anti dessicant and deer repellent and mulched the berm with wood chips. I have 2 holding beds with a few things from last house plus a bunch of big bargains sitting in pots waiting to be planted but first I have to help husband build a shed and...I have a few peonies, a few different hydrangeas, variegated lemon balm, Jack Frost Brunnera, painted fern, Gold and variegated Japanese forest grass, Miss Kim Lilac, variegated lavender, some kind of anemone, variegated phlox,pink phlox, ...I just need a place to plant these and more. But there is no topsoil so I need time to prepare beds...

OK? Since I just moved the stuff I took is very small and not even growing in place. Give me a season, OK? I have been bringing buckets of compost but the so called soil her is so dry now that I cannot even stick a pick or a crowbar in. So I cannot even make a bed. Hoping and praying for rain tomorrow...

Don't worry. I'll pick a strong small one and I can shape and train for you in a planter. I had more success with my rooting last fall than I realized and since I know its good for your climate, I'm happy to share.

If you have hard earth try to get some radish like April cross or daikon. They are great for busting up soil as they grow. Also very fast to mature.

Samsaraedu, I was just reading about Fredonia Grapes. It is seedless which is nice but everybody says it is a table grape and I was looking to get a variety that would be good for table AND wine. The deck has 3 posts that I was thinking of training vines upward. I MAY have read something about it not being good to have different varieties close to each other because they would cross pollinate but I don't see why that would be so since like, tomatoes cross pollinate but I'm not saving their seeds, just eating the fruit.

The soil here is a sin. Radishes won't even grow here right now. We had to rent a jackhammer to break up the soil for the holding bed. Then I mixed in 50% compost which raised the bed's level above the high H2O plus it broke up the evil clay and things are doing OK there. I am accumulating a pile of compost and then I plan to break up the presumed soil along the driveway to make a border there. I hope to have stuff to share next year. Wow, the Yankees are rallying. I hope they can pull this out.

My Fredonia have always had seeds and I still have tag. To me its more jelly and wine grape than table grape with the slip skin and a sweet yet tang to it.

Having soil that hard is rough. What were the landscape plants when you got there?

No plants at all. Bare earth. I need to learn more about what variety grape will make everybody happy...I just grow stuff and husband is the winemaker./brewer. In the last house I grew hops which was a mistake because you only need a little hops and I would get tons each season. Plus those plants are THUGS!! Very invasive. If I grew it now I would treat it like bamboo.

Wow, have you had soil tested at county extension or sometimes local nurseries offer for free to sell more plants. That may help in finding what will survive if you've got certain minerals and to pick a good cover crop to improve soil. Is it hard just from lack of rain?

I heard hops was a headache but I saw grow at local flower show and people were snatching up pots. Jokes on them, huh?

Has your husband been making wine a long time? I know of 3 dwarf variety wine grapes but you can't get to ship to NY anymore. But for your shade purpose, I've only seen more common eating grapes grow long. My friend used to make schnapps from the plum and cherry trees on her property. That stuff was wicked. Some drizzled down side of bottle and immediately took glue and color off label. Nobody could ever finish "sipping" a shot glass of it. Hmm, I gotta get her recipe.

Nono,

Late to the scene for me, but a good variety of grape can easily grow to reach and cover your area as described. You need winter hardy which leaves Muscadine grapes out of the equation. They are not winter hardy in zone 5.

Table grapes make great wines! The French/European grapes, vinifera varieties, will never reach up to your deck, nor cover your space provided. They are relatively small vines, and many not winter hardy.

One of the best newer seedless table grapes, Concord type (taste like Welch's grape juice), is a newer variety called St. Theresa. It was developed at an Ag. school in Wisconsin, I believe, for superior winter hardiness, vigor, and disease resistance. It has the Concord grape taste without the seeds, great for the kiddies or old folks, no choking on seeds.

I just put a St. Theresa in to replaced a monster of a Concord grape variety (with seeds), called King Of The North. It could easily cover twice your area. I regretfully took it out after 7 years (60 lbs. of grapes in 2016!), because, unknown to me at the time I planted it, it is primarily a commercial variety. The clusters, though abundant, had small berries, and their flavor was too strong, if you can believe that.......better for jelly, jam, or juice, not table fare.

Grapes are tough, and only require average garden soil, just excellent drainage.

Concord grape types, most being labrusca species crosses and some hybrids) grow great in zone 5. They are native N. Americans, perfectly suited to our cold winters and hot, humid summers.

I also have a young Thomcord seedless grape vine, which is supposed to be winter hardy in zone 5. I have my doubts. Time will tell with mine, but I cannot recommend it just yet. It is a seedless cross between Thompson Seedless and Concord. The skin does not slip off the meat of the berry like most Concords do, because of its Thompson Seedless heritage. It is mostly Concord in taste, just milder, not as strong.

Did you know that when the hops sprouts in spring, the shoots can be cooked and eaten like asparagus?

Moses

All of what you said is very interesting and new to me. 30 years ago we lived in a house with grapevines that must've been Concord and I wasn't excited about their flavor. I'd like to try something different but I am going to read all about the varieties you mention. So tell me, do I have to have only one variety or can I have different ones near each other? Ha, no, I didn't know that about the hops. I can't tell you how much of those sprouts got tossed into the compost! Oh well.

So you want a variety to eat but your husband wants variety to make wine?

How big is the yard overall?

Maybe long vine table grape to 2nd floor for you and short wine grape over by his tool shed.

Nono,

Grape vines are self fertile, but may produce a heavier crop with cross pollination from a variety that flowers at the same time, but a lone vine with no pollen available but its own will produce plenty of grapes.

To get the size of vine you need Concord, also called labrusca types, or crosses with Concords are needed.

You can grow as many different varieties of seeded grapes next to each other that you want to. Seedless, refer below.

Seedless varieties should be grown alone or with others of the same exact variety or their fruit will only be partially seedless because of the different variety's pollen hitting the flowers, making some seeds form in the clusters of berries.

Your cold zone 5 will limit you to very few seedless table grape grocery store varieties which for the most part are all warm zone grape vines.

Moses

In my area, mine flower while the neighbors down the block is just coming up growing vines and leaves. He won't see fruit start until end of July and mine are set and already loaded. I like the early because wild life are eating other stuff in season so I usually get most of crop.

I'm going to Astoria next week, I'll try to get pix of that vine if I can remember the street.

Samasara, my yard is .39 acres. Our deck is supported by 3 4x4s facing eastward so I was thinking a vine supported by each one. We are in the middle of building our shed. It is 10x12 and the walls are up as well as these two things that will hold the ridge beam until we attach all the rafters. We are taking a few days off because since we are not getting any younger our hands and other parts are hurting.

Moses, your comments are loaded with information that I need to process! Thank you; thank you both. I'm learning a lot.

Moses, how are those St. Theresa growing? Any comments? I'm looking to plant a seedless table grape for kids to eat and I'm in the Chicago area. Zone 5b I believe. Im open to suggestions. I have a South facing wall of the house and am thinking of putting some kind of trellis along that wall for them. Either horizontally along the wall (about 20 feet wide of space) or vertically. Would I just get one plant for that area and plant it in late winter / early spring? Maybe two plants? Any suggestions for the best tasting and easiest to grow in this area?