Actually, that photo of Ivana makes me smile. She looks happy. She's strolling in sunny St. Tropez. She has a handsome younger man by her side. It's unlikely she ever had an opportunity in her younger days to explore alternative styles, and certainly didn't delve into a bohemian look (which is loads of fun; I highly recommend it), so why the hell not at this juncture in life. Good on her; certainly much better than where she could've ended up.

If Mrs. Pence would have put a jacket or cardigan over that, it would have looked much better. One solid color would look so much better than the color blocking though.

Hey, you all know the trouble I had finding things to wear to my conference, so I feel the pain for someone who is 61 and not a size 6.

Someone on my nextdoor posted she is writing a story for the local magazine on clothing recommendations for style for women over 50, so it will be interesting what she comes up with.

Ida, ain't he a hot young buck? I believe he's an ex boyfriend. He's probably her escort now.

Yes she looks happy which is important, but someoneIvanka needs to sit her down and have a serious talk with her.

I loved Ivana in First Wive's Club! I followed that divorce like a mad woman. lol

Also, I am the new chair of an initiative with my professional organization, and I am probably going to need to appear in some media and at some meetings. Of course, this has me thinking about my fashion/appearance, weight, etc. I also desperately need a good head shot professional photo.

Congratulations, Gscience! I'd either ask a friend whose style you admire to help, or find a personal shopper at an upscale store.

Mtn, you have to realize that in academia, style is pretty much nonexistant! I think pretty much my whole department could use some help with style. I should either use Belk or Nordstrom personal shopper service.

I dont care for the style on Mrs Pence or the dress itself. The shoes are great, just not for her. Enough has been said already and it’s too bad she didn’t receive some style advice for her figure, stature, and the occasion.

Gscience, congratulations on your appointment. You have an opportunity to be an example and a style setter! Go for it! And yes, use the services of Nordstrom or whoever you trust to find some simple, versatile and appropriate wardrobe items for you.

Congrats, gscience! Sounds wonderful.

Remember jackets are you friend. You can take a plain collarless t-shirt and a pair of pants and throw a jacket on and suddenly you're more professional. Add a scarf or a chunky piece of jewelry and you're good to go.

Gscience. So excited for you. I had to laugh about your colleagues.

But it really is all about YOU being happy with how you look as well as being professional and well put together.

Congrats on your new role, gsciencechick! Sounds like a wonderful opportunity.

I transitioned into a new job late last year, and went from an office where we could wear jeans every day to high level corporate where professional dress is required. I find I thoroughly enjoy dressing up (and I didn't expect to!). It seems to make the whole act of going to and being at work more special. Makes me stand up straighter, knowing that I look polished, carrying myself a little differently -- and I think that translates into the work that I do.

Annie is right about donning a jacket. They make a huge difference in casual vs. business perception.

Does anyone really believe Mrs. Pence needs to shop ready-to-wear for her fashion needs? Anyone w/ her money can have clothing made to order, if they desire.

And FWIW, cost is no corollary to quality &/or tastefulness. As has been illustrated here in a few different threads, plenty of very expensive fashion is just God-awful!

And didn't someone else mention the amount of bare skin seems highly inappropriate for that particular culture?

Thanks, everyone. We had a conference call a couple of weeks ago about organizing an update to this conference in DC including some of the national academies, and, really, I am thinking I am NOT DC ready! But it is a great opportunity to rise to the occasion so that I am ready next year.

You know if Ivana had just ditched that weird belt I think that look would have been fine. That dress does not look to me like it was meant to be belted as far as the drape.

carolb_w_fl

Does
anyone really believe Mrs. Pence needs to shop ready-to-wear for her
fashion needs? Anyone w/ her money can have clothing made to order, if
they desire.

And FWIW, cost is no corollary to quality &/or tastefulness. As
has been illustrated here in a few different threads, plenty of very
expensive fashion is just God-awful!

And didn't someone else mention the amount of bare skin seems highly inappropriate for that particular culture?

************************************************

The Pences' aren't really wealthy - they have more than most, but....

How much is Mike Pence worth?

While
exactly how many billions Trump may or may not have has been a source
of dispute, Pence's net worth sits almost entirely in the value of his
pension. The governor declares he has a pension from the state of
Indiana worth between $500,000 and $1 million.Oct 2, 2016

No wonder so many marginally competent people want to run for office. The stress is bad but I guess you only have to do it for a little while and not much accountability and then you get a great pension. But only if your state is successfully gerrymandered to favor your party. Otherwise you might have to work really hard. I know my neighboring state of IN only has a part-time legislature. 61 days tops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_General_Assembly

Edited to add that I was wrong about Pence being Catholic. I guess so many of my Catholic friends like him because of his anti-abortion credentials. He is apparently now a born-again Christian and I'm not sure about the Catholic rules on what constitutes apostasy.

A pension worth 500k to 1mn is not exactly a "great pension". If it earned 5% per ye that is only 25-50k.

Of course, it probably is truly a pension and not a 401k, whereas in the private sector pension are like dodo birds.

Most Catholics I know from our extended families and long-time friends are pretty lax, but I do know a select few who are very conservative and more like Evangelical Christians.

"Edited to add that I was wrong about Pence being Catholic"

Actually they were both Catholics early in their marriage. He is her second husband. (oh my!) They are now evangical Christians.

He is apparently now a born-again Christian -- Well, that's what he calls himself, but the policies he's helping to enact against "the least of these" is anything but Christ-like, so as far as I'm concerned he could self-identify as a three-headed duck and it wouldn't make him one.

The last poor Presidential family was the Truman family. Pence may only have $500K to $1M in his government pension or retirement, which does not seem like much, but that doesn't really address what his net worth might be.

"A pension worth 500k to 1mn is not exactly a "great pension". If it earned 5% per ye that is only 25-50k."

For those of us who spent our careers as teachers, that would be a great pension and most teachers I know do not have robust 401k accounts if they have one at all, so I guess perspective is everything.

Politics, pensions, etc, aside, I feel sorry for Karen Pence. I can’t even imagine having my every outfit dissected. I have no style. My mother and her sister always looked like a million bucks. My sister always looks like a million bucks. They all have a certain flair. I think I inherited my fashion gene from Daddy. He was clean and neat but certainly not stylish.

Oh my bad I thought he made 500k per YEAR on his pension. If it is just a lump sum of 500k, then no, not that good. I know because I am a teacher and 500k is my bottom line goal for my 401k. I am a long ways off so I may never make it. It's not custom made clothing on a regular basis money. But he gets a salary for his current position too. Anyway I digressed, sorry. Back to style shaming the vp's wife. Not really edifying so I had better stop.

Why are there comments about their religion and assets?

I don't see this thread as being about style at all. It is about appropriateness. Karen Pence represents the United States. If she would prefer not to represent this country, then I am sure she is under no obligation to meet foreign leaders, attend dinners and mingle with potentates. Her position is not official.

I certainly would not comment on how a celebrity or society figure dresses. However, discussing how the wife of the Vice-President of the United States dresses in an official capacity, meeting the King and Queen of another country, is not a question of style. It is a question of how someone reports for work, and she is representing me no less when she does it.

I will go one step further in my critique of what Pence wore. Did she purposefully choose to wear a revealing outfit because she was meeting with Muslim leaders?

Because the discussion took some turns, Bumblebeez, as they often do.

Interesting point Rita.

And, yes I agree that our officials represent us all.

ETA: Ida, yes that is often the case. Very hard to stick to the topic at hand sometimes.

"Sadly, Mrs Pence forfeit the right to be herself when she became a representative of the United States."

No. She is married to a USA official. She does not represent us. I don't expect my DH to change in order to fit into the corporate culture I work in.

If she doesn't want to be perceived as representing us, then she should stay home. Nothing says she has to participate and she apparently does so willingly.

Wrong. Her husband is the VP of the country. If she accompanies him at an official function, she is representing this country & should dress & act appropriately as should all government officials & their spouses. See exhibit A, melania trump wearring an "I don't care" jacket to visit children ripped away from their parents or exhibit B the wife of the treasury secretary gloating about her designer clothing & trashing a taxpayer for commenting on her clueless behavior.

She is accompanying her husband. My DH does on occasion, reluctantly, accompany me to company functions. He wears whatever he is comfortable in for the occasion. His choice and I'm fine with that.

Accompanying your spouse to a corporate function is not an apt analogy. This would be like your spouse accompanying you to a sales call with a client- not the same expectations.

She is the wife of the VP at a State function. I think it's very different for spouses attending company functions. I agree that I'd probably want my spouse to feel comfortably dressed at a company event, but I also wouldn't want him to wear a Hawaiian Shirt and shorts with sandals to an event where other men were more formally dressed. It's about appropriateness and if my spouse wouldn't be comfortable dressing appropriately for an event, I'd ask him to stay home.

When I see an unfortunate dress choice such as that I have to wonder what it looks like when the wearer sits down. Yikes!

?? We often attend functions (as a couple) for my husband's business. I take great care in choosing appropriate, attractive clothing for every event. These range from picnics, pool parties, pro sporting events, dinners and formal occasions. These occasions are usually sponsored by the company, (or we are guests of another organization) so yes, I feel I am representing my husband's company when I accompany him.

She pretty much has to attend functions with him:

“In 2002, Mike Pence told the Hill that
he never eats alone with a woman other than his wife and that he won’t
attend events featuring alcohol without her by his side, either.”

he won’t attend events featuring alcohol without her by his side, either.

What?! Because she stops him from getting drunk? He likes to get her drunk? He thinks he’s so irresistible that any alcohol will weakened the morals of all the other females and she has to protect him from them?

Re:the original outfit that started this thread - it looks like her stylist is a teenaged daughter who recommended what is on trend without any regard to the appropriateness of the items for the age, shape, or social/business position of the wearer, or event where it would be worn. A common mistake for a young, inexperienced, immature, trend follower, but not understandable for a pseudo representative of the US government, which she is.

palimpsest

The
last poor Presidential family was the Truman family. Pence may only
have $500K to $1M in his government pension or retirement, which does
not seem like much, but that doesn't really address what his net worth
might be.

*****************************************************

Best I could find, he/they are worth between $500k-$2million and it's mostly from pension as IN gov - and when he turns 62, he'll recive a $32,000/yr congressional pension

ETA - Also discovered VP's don't get a pension

I actually think she looks more "updated" than she has in the past. I thought she looked frumpy most of the time. Maybe we are just shocked she wore something more young looking? Her hair needs help, I think.

As far as eating together with other women, I think the Pence's are very close and enjoy each other's company but ALSO alcohol can weaken morals. Happens all the time. Although, I'm sure they weren't thinking about the #metoo movement when they began their "only eating together" rule-for lack of a better word, but I wouldn't put past anyone using sexual harassment etc. against someone in a powerful position especially, in today's world.

Chijim, the V.P. does receive a pension that is the same as members of Congress. He must serve two years and the pension is not designated to the VP, but to him as President of the Senate. Of course, he can use his VP years as his top three in terms of salary which will bump him up some from what he would get simply for being a congressman.

I don't think it is polite or fair to pick apart Karen Pence's alleged fashion faux paus incessantly, but this fashion discussion is interesting to me because it does bring up many points/issues that have affected me throughout my personal and professional life. Issues of taste and where is that sweet spot between too much and too little. Some people manage to pull that off effortlessly without any training, they are just naturals. Others are very far from it, in fact almost gravitate towards disharmonious schemes. And then culture, age and personality influences perception too. So this is one of those areas on which I think people will not be all of one mind.

Take Princess Diana's wedding dress as another example. On the one hand, it was her own personal wedding, and on the other hand, it was a state event and the world was going to be watching. She was very young and had a lot of expectations thrust upon her with very little experience. She was a 19 year old pre-school teacher prior to her engagement to Prince Charles. And subliminally, I think her wedding dress conveyed that. Over the top on structure and artistic "fairy tale" statement, to the point where it looked like the dress wore her, she was lost in it, much the way I think she started out lost in the Royal Family and the public expectations. (Of course that is just my perspective, I know a lot of people LOVED the dress, still consider it iconic so in some ways maybe that was a PR win for Diana. Also, I would have probably gone in a similar direction if I had to chose my wedding dress at 19, I would have gone for a lot of bling). She got better over time, but I think in the end, the role of public icon was not something she could tolerate very well and her attempting to escape endless public scrutiny got her killed more or less.

Contrast that with her sons, both of whom married women with experience in public relations to some extent. Catherine studied art history and her family made their money selling party decorations, so fashioning image tastefully is a subject she is familiar with. Plus, I think her maiden name, Middleton, speaks to her amazing ability to find that middle ground sweet spot between not calling too much attention to herself for any aspect of her clothing, but still looking fabulous. Meghan Markle is similarly savvy with a degree in international relations and a career in acting, so she's very aware of how to craft an image and cultural norms too. Who knows how these marriages between the various players will be for them personally, but both women bring some tools to the public side of the endeavor.

Of course some people would just loathe to be bothered with that kind of thing at all, and that is their right. But I think that is why we discuss things like "what to wear" and "how to decorate" and "curb appeal" here on the forum, we're trying to find our own way with the tools of art and geometry as aides to quality of life.

I feel for Karen Pence, because with just the couple of public events I am having to dress for and organize this year, (fiance's son's wedding and my own two weddings), I am feeling the pressure. Plus, I pretty much organize public events for a living, and if you don't do that, you probably have no idea how stressful it can be trying to please all of the people all of the time if that is your job. My fiance has a life philosophy of steadfastly not caring what people think, or at least saying that. I would frankly say that it has been somewhat of an impediment to his success in life, although he is not an extremely anti-social person, but he also says, "So what and so be it." He's not alone, this is a common way to be in this world and as long as you're not too extreme, I think it can be tolerated since some of what bothers highly sensitive people is not worth the trouble addressing. Where to find the middle ground, always an art . . .

FWIW, I was responding to comments prior to mine saying how hard it can be to find things that fit. Someone w/ even a "meager" 500K income could most certainly afford to have a seamstress make them a dress or ensemble for a special occasion. This was a meeting with a king & queen, after all.

Not to mention the fact that a number of designers are happy to provide garments gratis for high profile people at high profile events, to act as advertisement.

Although, now that I think of it, that number may be narrowed, when it comes to this administration, due to the politics involved. Might that be the case here, I now wonder? Was that dress provided by a designer?

l pinkmountain - Diana's wedding dress was her first rodeo... and I think the OTT fairy-tale princess dress made sense at the time.

Yes, her fashion style did evolve for the better. over the yrs

Karen Pence was a congressman's wife for 12yrs, a governor's wife for 4 and Mike was a media figure with his own radio & TV shows too

This isn't her first rodeo when it comes to dressing

Fashion has evolved considerably since the early 80s, when Diana wore that dress. I remember thinking it absolutely dreamy, and at that point in history, I think many young women felt the same about it.

"Was that dress provided by a designer?" Ahhh....perhaps she has to wear Ivanka!

I'll just repeat..who famous has any honesty around them?

The president clearly doesn't otherwise he wouldn't have that hair....

Too many yes men working for their own benefit and nobody else's.

FWIW She is a representative of this country, whether she wants to be or not.

Actually I don't think the pence's have much money...they aren't independently wealthy like trump and now he's got the burden of all those lawyer fees which mount up quickly. He's only making $243,500 and gets a house. A law firm can burn through that pretty quickly. He hired a criminal lawyer in June 2017. And of course trump has no willingness to help his good buddy out...

Just read an article criticizing Meghan Markle for showing too much shoulder at some kind of public event. Us women and our shoulders!! Oh well. I used to be a person who insisted on "being myself" and bucking style expectations. After a few embarrassing call-outs I have sought a more moderate position. I meet with a couple of stylish friends every once and a while and they help me cull my closet. Does not help that my shape keeps changing in middle age. I am so glad that I only occasionally have to worry about my look.

I know plenty of people - myself included - who could spend less than $500 and come up with a more appropriate outfit than that...