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shannon_hermanson

Viking, BlueStar, La Cornue, Kitchenaid? Help choosing a range ASAP

shannon_hermanson
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago

Hello,

Bear with me as I am all over the place. We are currently redoing our kitchen and didn’t intend on a new range but have separate cooktop/oven and when we upgrade will want an all-in-one so it’s now or never! We currently have a Whirlpool oven that I don’t like (plus it’s digital and my son presses buttons while it’s cooking). I made the mistake of visiting a high-end appliance shop and now I’m hooked. Pinterest has me wanting a Cornufe! ‍♀️

Our cabinet installation is being held up waiting for the range size. We have a small kitchen and will probably do a 30” unless I have a reason to go fancy with a 36”. Looking to get a good deal and have something stylish. I honestly barely cook. We use the stovetop and when I sometimes bake will most often use our Breville toaster oven. I’ve heard gas is better for roasting and electric for baking.


Budget did not take into account a new range, so need to consider $ and may need to finance but want to make a good long term decision.


Contenders:

Viking 30” open burner gas range (new) VGIC53014BSS $3999 and comes with free dishwasher (though we have a perfectly decent Whirlpool). Salesguy says go open burner over sealed burner.

BlueStar RCS 36” open burner RCS366BV2?- found an open box at an outlet for $3499. I would want to get some pretty copper knobs for this that would add about another $500. Burners look great but don't need a 36” and can’t finance at the outlet.

Cornufe Albertine 90 36”- found a black and silver floor model for $6600 (can finance) or a Provence blue and brass floor model for $6075 (can’t finance). Would love a black or white with brass but no way I can pay sticker. They’re just so pretty....

KitchenAid dual fuel 30” in white (New) $4332 KDRS407VMW. It’s cute, seems to have good reviews, and good for baking (but cooktop prob not as good as the others and doesn’t have quite the polished look).

Advice? I‘m way out of my depth and need a quick decision!

Comments (68)

  • Nothing Left to Say
    3 years ago

    You barely cook and you would have to finance this purchase. Echoing everyone else who says, take a step back.


    I second a Bosch induction range. It’s a lot of quality at a much lower price point. And it won’t cause a cascade of expensive ventilation issues.


    Although truthfully, that Frigidaire is also a great option. I had one in my last house and I cook everyday and it was awesome. Really awesome. Boiled water super fast, held a low temp so well I could make oatmeal and leave it to finish while I took a shower with nothing sticking to the pot, and super easy to clean.

  • Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real
    3 years ago

    That is great praise for the Frigidaire ^^^. I would definitely ignore Bosch then, and go for that option.

  • Nothing Left to Say
    3 years ago

    Mine was the predecessor to the current Frigidaire, but I was very happy with it!

  • cpartist
    3 years ago

    Budget did not take into account a new range, so need to consider $ and may need to finance but want to make a good long term decision.

    If you want to make a good long term decision, then you buy what you can afford now. Not what needs to be financed. That's how you wind up in financial trouble down the road.

    If all you can afford is an inexpensive gas stove, that's what you get. Trust me an inexpensive gas range will cook the food just as well as a fancy model. Especially for someone who doesn't cook!

    I just built a house. I fell in love with the side opening ovens and believe me, those Miele induction cooktops were calling my name.

    However, like you, I'm not a huge cook. We eat in 2-3x a week and are out the other 4 nights. Unlike you, I could afford the top of the line if I wanted without financing it and my neighborhood could support it. My neighbors have Wolf cooktops and ovens.

    I bought a Bosch induction cooktop. Why? Because those nights I do cook, I mostly use the cooktop for creating meals, so I wanted something that was good quality, but knew I didn't need a Wolf or a Miele.

    As for those side opening ovens, I realized it's rare I use an oven. If I use it once a week, that's a lot. So instead of spending big bucks on a side opening oven, I wound up with the bare bones Bosch oven (500 series). Why Bosch? Because I also got a discount for buying 3 of their appliances. So in the end it wound up costing the same as the Fridgidaire I was considering.

    Don't put yourself in debt for something you rarely use. It's not worth it.

  • Jeanne Cardwell
    3 years ago
    For years I wanted one of those high end stoves. Finally bought a $7000 Viking dual fuel. I get compliments on it all the time but it is the biggest piece of crap I have ever purchased. The first one was defective and after lots of wrangling I got another one. No possibility of a refund. The repair man has been to my house so often my neighbors must think we're having an affair! I also bought a Viking dishwasher that I had to replace after 4 years!
    Do yourself a favor. Stick with a 30 inch stove, all gas (best if you are not a good cook), maybe a KA or GE or Some other reasonable priced stove.
    Embarrassed at my age to be taken in by all that "high end" bs.
  • Shaun Ma
    3 years ago

    Get the induction since, like others have said, it's safer for curious or misbehaving kids to touch and more budget friendly. Also, you could probably use it as additional counter space for some items that won't damage it since you so rarely cook. I don't understand the need for big designer brands when the features they offer will never be fully appreciated or the market doesn't necessitate it. Yes it was a mistake visiting that designer showroom and it's not a funny one. Look at only what you can afford. You don't want to finance something like that and then a few years down the road it's trash for whatever reason and you're STILL paying on it.

  • PRO
    Sophie Wheeler
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    If you want a great range on a budget, give up the slide in for a free standing. This Frigidaire is an incredible value, and will serve very well.

    https://m.lowes.com/pd/Frigidaire-4-Element-5-4-cu-ft-Self-cleaning-Freestanding-Induction-Range-Easycare-Stainless-Steel-Common-30-Inch-Actual-29-875-in/1000288775

  • nosoccermom
    3 years ago

    What are electrical cost required for induction, such as amp requirements, outlet, etc?

  • dan1888
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Same as a regular electric range. 40-50A 220v dedicated circuit. If you're running a line from the fuse box make it 50A 4 wire.

  • shannon_hermanson
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Thanks everyone. Wow, did I get schooled! I am looking at floor models and will make sure I get a deal so financing won’t be necessary. It seems that Viking is not recommended. I am between the open-box 36” open range BlueStar (RCS) which seems to be a great product, and a 30” sealed-burner Dacor which is an absolute steal at $1500 (floor model been there a while)! The pro KA is still more than both of these. I’m not interested in an induction range. I’ve looked at the Samsung, Bosch, and KA non-pro slide-ins and they’re nice enough but not doing much for me and still more than the Dacor.

  • Alison
    3 years ago
    Or it could be possible she’s just talking about the range currently and will deal with the venting hand in hand when she actually purchases...
    shannon_hermanson thanked Alison
  • friedajune
    3 years ago

    Alison - point taken. But don't you think it odd that the ventilation requirements have been mentioned repeatedly, but the OP has said nothing in response, not a word.

  • PRO
    Sophie Wheeler
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    You can’t change horses in mid stream. Not without changing a lot more than just the horse. The required infrastructure changes that need to be made to have this happen are not confined to the cooking appliance only.

    Especially since the MUA will need to be integrated into the home’s HVAC. And the need for the larger hood will affect the cabinet design. And the higher BTU gas requires a larger gas line than typically serves a residential grade range. Adding a 15-20K total expense at the last minute, that has to be financed, and won’t get used, is beyond foolish. That a divorcable offense to the family finances.

  • Alison
    3 years ago
    No. Whenever I’ve talked about my kitchen appliances I never once commented on ventilation. Doesn’t mean I’m not aware of what is needed and won’t follow through with an appropriate venting system. It does mean vents are dull to discuss and for me at least a necessary thing but not a deal breaker in what appliance I buy nor a bit discussion point.
  • friedajune
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Sorry to be debating this like a tennis ball back and forth, but the OP has commented that she can barely afford the ranges she is considering. It seems unlikely that she will be more able to afford the ventilation "hand in hand" at the same time she is shelling out the money for the pro range. I don't think she has any idea how powerful the Bluestar 15k open burner is.

  • Alison
    3 years ago
    Sophie she appears to know the cabinets would need to change if appliances do and has said so. Yes cost may be a factor but there has been no point where the OP has said she won’t vent properly.
  • Alison
    3 years ago
    Friedajune just like you are assuming the worst in the OP I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt. The venting issue has been raised and explained. Her call to follow or not but I’m not assuming she hasn’t read the discussion. I am assuming she is currently focused on the range/cook top part of it all. Either of us could be wrong. Who knows!
  • friedajune
    3 years ago

    I am not assuming anything. She said she could barely afford the range, and was thinking of having to finance the range's purchase. She said she rarely cooks, yet is looking at pro ranges. Ventilation has been mentioned repeatedly, but she has not responded as to whether she has any ventilation plans, or can afford ventilation. Those are the facts so far of this thread, not assumptions.

    This has become a useless debate. The OP asked for advice, and I don't see any indication she has taken one bit of the advice that has been generously offered. Nothing more to be added.

  • PRO
    Sophie Wheeler
    3 years ago

    You aren’t the forum house mom. And it isn’t your project. If she wants to speak for herself, she can. She hasn’t said anything so far that makes sense. Otherwise we are all just going to assume that she’s bankrupt in a van down by the river with no internet access.

  • Alison
    3 years ago
    Ah here we go again. Someone says something different and gives the OP the benefit of the doubt and now they get jumped on. OP I hope you get whatever appliances you want, that work for your needs, that are safe and make you love your kitchen. Good luck with whatever you choose.
  • cpartist
    3 years ago

    You aren’t the forum house mom.

    Oh Sophie, don't you know she's set herself up to be house mom? That seems to be her job.

  • Alison
    3 years ago
    And are you just trolling the forum waiting for me to comment...seriously. I view things differently than you. Deal with it.
  • cpartist
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Actually if you had noticed, I had commented earlier so no, I don't troll you. It's not worth my time but if you comment as if you were the house mom, and I read the comment, then yes, I'll call you out on it.

  • shannon_hermanson
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Oh wow! Frankly I’m scared to post in my own discussion because the tone in here is getting so heated (pun intended). I appreciate the useful information. I wanted help choosing a quality designer range, yes mostly for style in my new kitchen, but I do have professionals working on the installation. I had already discussed ventilation with my kitchen guy but am waiting to hear back from him after all the advice. I’ve been told that 1/2” gasline is just fine and that the ducting is there to support adequate ventilation which I am told is at least 5-600 cfm on a pro-range. The whole 30” vs. 36” debate had everything to do with my cabinet installation being held up on the size (36” drawers become 30” if I go with a bigger range). It’s going in a peninsula, so only lowers are affected.

    As far as $, I have a good income that can absorb this long term, but I was referring to money that was specifically set aside for the kitchen but did not account for a new range. As far as urgency- the kitchen is already demoed and floors installed so won’t be able to cook till it’s done- and I’m 8 months pregnant so kitchen needs to be done before baby comes!

    Thank you for the ventillation information and the supportive comments that were relevant to the products I am actually interested in.

    And for the record I thought the house mom was Sophie (with apparently the necessary credentials)!

  • alex9179
    3 years ago

    And for the record I thought the house mom was Sophie (with apparently the necessary credentials)!

    That made me snort!

    I don't know that a 600 cfm hood is adequate for a "pro" gas range. For reference, I'm using a 600 cfm hood over a 30" induction cooktop. I went large in width to account for a higher than recommended height above it. I cook 2-3 times a day, like to experiment, and wanted a hood that could handle smash burgers or woking.

    I realize that you don't plan to use the appliances much, it's more about aesthetics. That's where your reference to "going in the peninsula" caught my attention. You'll need a larger hood for capture and more cfms due to the openness. I urge you to reconsider a peninsula position, if possible at this stage.

  • cpartist
    3 years ago

    I had already discussed ventilation with my kitchen guy but am waiting to hear back from him after all the advice. I’ve been told that 1/2” gasline is just fine and that the ducting is there to support adequate ventilation which I am told is at least 5-600 cfm on a pro-range.

    Your guy is very wrong if he thinks 5-600 CFM is fine on a high BTU gas cooktop. It's at least double that! And at double that, it requires make up air.

    I would highly recommend you post in the appliance forum and see what the gurus there say about CFM's and makeup air.

    If you were doing induction, then yes, you could get away with 500-600 CFM, but absolutely not with gas.

    I missed the part about putting the cooktop in the peninsula. If that's the case you actually need even MORE.

    Also with a new baby coming, I would seriously consider induction over gas. No fumes and safer for baby if baby touches the cooktop since with induction, the cooktop doesn't get hot.

  • shannon_hermanson
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Okay this is weird. Two different kitchen appliance places today and my guy all expressed no concern beyond 600cfm. Don’t think I can place range elsewhere. Gasline was already in the peninsula - and there was zero ventillation with our previous 30” wall oven. Didn’t have much trouble - just opened windows.

  • latifolia
    3 years ago

    What else is running on gas in your house, and has your guy inspected those?

    We have a gas fireplace and heat. They looked at the maximum draw of everything and added them. In our case, we’re 500 btus over the supply line - without a professional range. Now this will only become an issue on a very cold Thanksgiving, when everything is on full.

    But the building inspector will want to know that your gas supply is adequate. Sometimes they can increase the line pressure, but you would need to consult an expert.

  • shannon_hermanson
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Just the heater. Fireplace has no gas. And we live in Southern California.

  • cpartist
    3 years ago

    I have never heard of a pro range that only takes 600 CFM. And if it's a tight home, you need it even more.

  • alex9179
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Two different kitchen appliance places today and my guy all expressed no concern beyond 600cfm.

    They aren't looking out for you, don't care about the grease you or the housekeeper will have to remove from your surfaces, and aren't interested in the fuel combustibles in your home.

    An oven positioned between upper cabinets and a wall will have effluent funneled in a tighter plume than an open area. Effluent goes up and outwards so an open cooktop position will benefit from a larger capture area and higher cfms to carry it outdoors. I haven't used a high-powered gas stove but I would expect to install a 1200 cfm hood...at least for the oops! smokey! moments.

    I get it. My venting was a slider and window, when weather permitted, while using radiant and induction. I had a film, and smokey interior on occasion, because nothing was being pulled outdoors. All of that stuff finds landing area and stays until it's cleaned.

    My life changed, dramatically, within a few years of moving into this last home. I went from the occasional, half-ass cook to cooking a wide variety of cuisines, using different methods, and actively looking for challenge. People even think I'm good at it! I make bread, for heaven's sake! Fit your kitchen in a way that accommodates your equipment and can grow with your family. You won't regret having it when you need it.

  • suzyq53
    3 years ago

    Not everyone is in their forever home, even if you barely cook, a future buyer will probably want that option. Therefore, when remodeling, you don't just plan for your usage. What's the resale on a home with just a microwave because that's all the remodeler uses?

    shannon_hermanson thanked suzyq53
  • shannon_hermanson
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Well perhaps I will be inspired to cook more. I’m not eating out by any means but there’s not much from scratch. I baked a bit before commuting and working full time with 1.5 boys. I am trying to design a lovely kitchen in my first new home- for myself not for the neighbors- and would like a nice looking range. The amount of rude, judgemental, and unrelated comments here have astounded me and frankly, saddened me as well. What is the point of responding to a thread just to chastise the poster?

  • PRO
    Sophie Wheeler
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    suzyq53, you are incorrect. You are required to have MUA as well, starting with the 2012 IRC. Just because you skipped complying, doesn’t mean that you don’t need it.

    Any ventilation hood over 400 CFM requires MUA. Your locally adopted amendments to code can be stricter, but not more lenient.

  • alex9179
    3 years ago

    Wow, my MUA post was pulled? I wasn't even being snarky.

  • Zalco/bring back Sophie!
    3 years ago

    Bottom line is you can do what you please. You are getting good advice from people who profit nothing from offering it. Our culture pushes spending. It’s oh so tempting to get every great thing we can. Of course you want something nice to look at. You can get that without overspending is all you are being told by people who know a thing or two about kitchens.

  • suzyq53
    3 years ago

    Sophie - What does "naturally provided with makeup air" mean? I've lived in 3 homes here with professional appliances, none of which had any additional mechanical makeup. Also looked at hundreds of prospective homes (some new built) that did not have any either. I get it if you've got pro size in a sealed high-rise apartment. But in a single family home, our windows are open all year here.

  • PRO
    Sophie Wheeler
    3 years ago

    It means a large duct with a damper straight to the furnace room, or one with a mechanically aided fan, as large CFM fans pull more air than a standard duct can make up.

  • suzyq53
    3 years ago

    We don't have furnace rooms. One is in the garage and the other upstairs in a closet. And rarely used. Average temps here are 65 to 75.

  • Alison
    3 years ago

    At the risk of being ridiculed further we only have a 600CFM fan planned for our kitchen and a 36" commercial style kitchenaid range. We've spoken to the builder and the appliance person, who I trust as he is actually someone I have known since high school, and both say it is totally fine. The fan we have planned is the strongest one Kitchenaid sells so in theory should match their product.


    https://www.kitchenaid.ca/en_ca/major-appliances/hoods-and-vents/wall-mount/p.36-wall-mount,-3-speed-canopy-hood.kvwb406dss.html


    https://www.kitchenaid.ca/en_ca/major-appliances/ranges/dual-fuel-ranges/p.36-inch-6-burner-dual-fuel-freestanding-range,-commercial-style.kdrs467vss.html


    And preemptively I will say that this is my package and I am not at all saying it is the same as what the OP is going with but am pointing out that a 600CFM fan likely could work, and will, in at least some settings.

  • K R
    3 years ago
    Gonna chime in and say the same thing. Never had extra ventilation, cook at home all of the time with pro appliances for 20+ years, and we’re all still alive. Yeah it gets a little smoky in here when we do steaks in the cast iron once in a while but not a big deal, I just open a few windows. I can see it being even less a big deal for someone who barely cooks. OP - good luck! So many great ones to choose from.
  • friedajune
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    is the strongest one Kitchenaid sells so in theory should match their product.

    That Kitchenaid KVWB406DSS exhaust (cost ~$1k) will not be a strong one. It only has a 6" duct outlet size, so already it is constrained. An 8" diameter duct is preferable. You are now trying to force air through too small of a space, which curtails efficiency and also creates more noise. A hood with 400 cfms is almost adequate, but your smoke alarm will go off if you make steaks in a cast iron pan for example. Furthermore, that hood's filters are mesh filters. Baffle filters are preferable because mesh filters quickly become clogged, and will need to be cleaned frequently to maintain the clear air flow.

    I understand you said the exhaust is dull and not necessary to you, etc. Just giving you a heads up that the one you chose will be noisy, and you will not be impressed with its exhaust power. If I were going to spend $1000 on a hood (which is what that KA hood costs), I'd want more bang for my buck, dull or not.

  • zthar
    3 years ago

    " KitchenAid dual fuel 30” in white (New) $4332 KDRS407VMW. It’s cute, seems to have good reviews, and good for baking (but cooktop prob not as good as the others and doesn’t have quite the polished look). "


    I have this one and have had trouble with it. Not sure what reviews you read? But check out non-Kitchenaid sites for reviews. There have been issues with this model.

    shannon_hermanson thanked zthar
  • mishmosh
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I have a 48" range. Have a 600cfm hood. Most of the time I have it on low which I'm guessing is around 300cfm. It is fully adequate for the cooking I do. For high smoke cooking, I'll use one of the center back burners with the fan on max. THankfully, all my Monogram burners are identical 18k btu so I can pick and choose where to cook things. The most I've had going are 4 burners but not all going full blast. Seems to work fine for me. THe exhaust is rather short though...maybe two feed long up and out, 8" to 10" duct.

  • cpartist
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    So let me get this straight. Because all you non pros say it's ok, then that must mean it's ok? As opposed to listening to the Pros on this forum or doing your own research by asking in the appliance forum?

    In the old days a fan was a string to an outdoor fan on the wall. Maybe we should all go back to that version of a fan? Sheesh.

    BTW: My hood is a 600 CFM hood with baffles, but I don't have a pro style GAS cooktop. I have induction and my duct is 8". If I had gone with gas, you can bet I would have gotten a stronger hood with MUA.

  • Michelle misses Sophie
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    As Sophie correctly points out, it is now part of building code that if you have a hood with greater than 400 CFM, you must provide make up air. This is more than simply opening a window - it is deliberate delivered fresh airflow and its purpose is to make sure you are not pulling the needed air through the wrong sources (because higher airflow out needs to come from somewhere). The wrong sources are things like furnace and water heater vents, fireplace chimneys, etc. Inadequate make up air means unhealthy air (and potentially combustion gas) is pulled into your home.

    Sizing the vent hood, blower, ducting, and make up air are dependent on the capture area of the hood, height of the hood, the length and diameter of the ducting, and BTU rating of the appliance. Search on user kaseki in the Appliance forum for good information.

  • Alison
    3 years ago


    friedajune I said the hood fan was dull to discuss not a dull item. I know it is necessary but I also trust the team we have put together and the package we have created. People don't often come on Houzz to chat about hood fans but ranges are a pretty common discussion point. And my point was simply that every range discussion that doesn't include a hood discussion doesn't mean the homeowner isn't going to bother with no hood. That's all. I appreciate the issues you have raised about the hood fan we selected but I feel confident in our choices and in the team we have hired to make sure everything is installed well and meets code for our area.

  • Boxerpal
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I did not do my homework....

    : (

    After reading all the posts. I am doubting the hood and insert that my KD chose. I told her pick the one that works the best, fits my cabinet and does the job. HOnestly I never really thought about it. Just picked my range and assumed the old ducting etc would be fine

    We had an old hood in our kitchen that worked great but was old and didn't match the decor. The ducting was 10 inches the GC enlarged it. 12 inches, through roof. The cabinet company (Installer ) came to the house to measure the hood ducting in case he thought we needed something bigger.

    I just took it for granted they would take care of these details.

    Ventahood

    We bought this one.....The B200 Dual Blower (600 CFM [Two Premier Magic Lungs]) is appropriate for under cabinet or wall mount hoods over standard gas or electric cooking equipment and professional style ranges. Additional blowers maybe added if necessary for Premier Magic Lung® hoods.

    My concern is maybe I should have gone bigger.... Our KitchenAid range 30 inches dual fuel slide in range has 5000 to 19,000 BTUs... Only 4 burners. The hood is wood and will be 42 inches. It is not too late, I think I can have them switch things to better. I will contact the team in the morning as we have not installed anything. That is going to happen next week or even the week after.

    doubting my hood vent ducting choices...

    ~boxer

  • wekick
    3 years ago

    " Because all you non pros say it's ok, then that must mean it's ok? As opposed to listening to the Pros on this forum or doing your own research by asking in the appliance forum?"

    Wait, what makes someone a non pro vs one of the "Pros on this forum" and is that different from having PRO under your picture? Only one person with PRO under their picture has answered here. It is actually their "pros" telling them it is OK. Are you saying that "non pros" giving their subjective opinion is somehow invalid? Are you saying if you are a "Pro on this forum", whatever that means, your word is infallible? I think no matter who you profess to be, you have to make a case for what you are saying.

    If I were doing this now, I would have a few questions myself. It's a lot of money especially if you have to install makeup air. There are a lot of ways to calculate how much ventilation is needed but how are these ways and numbers validated?

    I think this is the thread mentioned above that has the comments by kaseki(no PRO under his picture). He references certain people that have worked in this field.

    https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5161173/hood-faq#n=21

    "Any ventilation hood over 400 CFM requires MUA. Your locally adopted amendments to code can be stricter, but not more lenient."

    Some codes, ours in particular, call for it at 600 CFM, so you really have to see if it is required in your location and what the requirements are. This is our code. Not everyone needs the motorized version.

    I don't think makeup air was required when I put my fan in, at least none of the inspectors said anything. I have not had any issues anywhere or blow back from the wood stove. We have a lot of open areas in our house. I do think I have naturally supplied makeup air with a gravity damper. ;-))

    It is also close to the furnace.

    We went to a restaurant recently with no makeup air and a giant hood. I could not pull the door open, until my husband pulled on it too and we broke the suction. Not good!