Hi Diane, I ask a lot of silly questions here. How else can a person learn new things. I'm going to winter sow this fall, and it's all new to me, so I ask a lot of questions. What do you want to know? Hey, I just bought a few plants the other day, in August. They are in the ground now, and doing ok.

Diane, I'm growing some Alternanthera plants in a pot with Petunias. The Alternantheras are in the Amaranth family and closely related to your Dragon's Breath Celosias. These type plants do very well in pots, and you can move them around to get more sun if need be.

Diane, I am asking a lot of questions the experts here might consider silly. I am usually getting really good answers. Of course I might have to google some of the scientific terms and names in them. My brain works with the common names.

The dog from across the street dug up some my wildflowers a couple years ago. I had an ongoing conflict with some chipmunks, but they finally learned that I was boss. Actually they were trying to burrow in my garden, but they got tired of the constant flooding. Since I stopped putting bird seed out, they've calmed down. I'm a cat person. I have 3 cats that are 10 yo. They are half Hymalayan and half Brittish Shorthair. I don't let them out, but Kiki, the frisky one, let herself outside for a few minutes yesterday. I looked out the window to look at the pots, and there she was, my indoor cat. I grow a lot of native spring ephemerals. They bloom early in spring before the trees leaf out, so you can plant them under deciduous trees. They get all the sun they need very early, and then most go dormant and dissapear in early summer. Some of those plants are Virginia bluebells, wild geranium, trillium, bloodflower, bleeding heart, Solomon's seal, Dutchmans breeches, Jack in the pulpit, columbine, celendine poppy, blue, cohash, sqill, wild ginger,ect.

Thanks Iris: I do about the same. I do a bunch of google searches for info. When I get stumped, confused, uncertain, etc etc etc is when I want to reach out to "buddies" in the know.

Jay: you have touched on something that has been twirling around like crazy in my mind for weeks now Right now, I would like to prepare to find ways to grow from seed and bulb for flowering plants starting with the earliest bloomers first, and also realizing I can take advantage of my pecan trees losing their leaves. Yet, I need to have some kind of a overall plan in mind. My flower beds in front of my house are not that big. While I do not like formal, I would not like looking at remains of withered/dried up of bloomers, yet not into digging up bulbs or repurchasing new ones. oooooh I have fallen in love with SNOWDROPS. The very earliest of them which will pop up in snow even in winter. I've kinda given up since the source of viable bulbs are few, and it's pricey. Thought daffs , and also something like low crocus in front. But then you have mentioned a bunch. Have on my list of favs also Solomon's deal, bleeding heart. Will note what you have written. And then to complicate all this, is what I can grow from seed which doesn't take a year to blossom, and what I can afford to buy being my income leaves very little spendable $$, when to start, where to start the seeds.

Below is my $6 appx DIY birdbath.

I have inside kitties, too. I call them my gang of 4; full of antics that crack me up. They're not happy I'm playing warden and limit them to inside. Had to chicken wire over window screens. 3 are my daughter's who likes to collect animals and then does not care for them. Can't take heartbreak seeing another dead on the busy hwy out front. Like it or not, I've taken over my dgtrs cats to be locked up inside. If I could afford, in a wink, I would have a totally secure surround of cage type structure which is attached to one of my windows for the cats to get some secure outside time. Reminds me to pick up some lotto tickets today LOL. (Not an addict of gambling, for sure)

Well, her dog Callum has succeeded at killing off the wax begonias and all the rest flowering in front beds. Friend Remi is putting stakes and wire right now around the two front of house flower beds. So it's back to square one. Have my long time azalea bushes and another remaining, and Coleus in pots he obviously has a distaste for, oh and ornamental sweet potato vines in front of another building of mine.

Bottom line: I'm thirsting for an abundance of flowers even more so now. LOL

I like your birdbath. Thats great having it close, so you can watch. Some of the shade plants in my list were not ephemerals, and stay green all season, so they are something to look at when the ephemerals start to yellow and dissapear. Solomon's seal, wild geranium and celendine poppy all stay green. I've had these plants growing in deep shade under old, large oaks, and they've done great. They even handle drought very well.

Diane, these are some of the plants I grow in shade. I have some things growing around a huge old Cottonwood. There I have Hostas, Asian dayflower (Commelina cummunis), Hypoestes (polka dot plant), Coleus, Impatiens wallerana, Orange jewelweed ( Impatiens capensis), Japanese ribbon grass, wild ginger, violets, and Balsam. It's a mix if annuals and perrenials. There's some creeping jenny (Lysimachia) in there too. This area is shady most of the day with just dappled sunlight.

This area is way in back so it doesn't get watered or tended to very often. These Gold Standard Hostas seem to do better in deep shade and they've stood up to several droughts very well. They look pretty good now, but would look even better if they were watered. The brown dead plant remains in the center are whats left of the bleeding heart that bloomed in early spring. Please don't be afraid to visit other forums and ask questions. That's the best way to learn new things. I've been on gardenweb since 2007. The first couple years I was mostly on the seed exchange where people trade seeds. It's a great place to find seeds if you have a tight budget. It's just in the last 3 years that I've really started visiting and including myself in the forums. In the early part of that I butted heads with people and got angry, but now I've settled down and learned to be much more tolerant of others tastes and opinions. I feel a great freedom now knowing I can just be myself, and do my thing and I've found the forums where I feel at home and in my element. I still get angry at some peoples ignorant comments, and I will confront them with righteous anger tempered with loving understanding. I think you are great and want you to please stick around. The other pic is in the same area as the Gold Standard Hostas. All the ephemerals are gone, but the celendine poppies, wild geraniums, wild gingers, and Solomon's seals all stay green throughout the season. There were a bunch of orange jewelweeds in this area also, but they fizzled due to lack of water. I moved 5 of those to other gardens where they get watered often. The jewelweeds, balsam, and pokka dot plants are for the hummingbirds. I basically plant with wildlife in mind, and am mostly choosing plants for the hummingbirds and butterflies, both nectar and host plants.

WOW. You must have a big yard/area. Looks very nice!! Though I have an acre, my areas for planting is not much right now, for sure. I might eventually expand front beds by a couple of feet maybe, and make a bed encircling a pecan tree. However, my daughter's dog digging up flowers has me depressed. I love Callum. He is older, large dog, has had major surgeries a few years back which left him limp, but still he can manage to come off my front porch into the front flower beds we found out after the beds yesterday were wired around. Will have to blockade somehow. Her dog, Callum won't allow me to put a collar on him to try to tie him up when he is outside to do his thing. His big teeth come out LOL. See photo below. Probably will put birdbath in another location. Just had it gifted to me by a friend/man who has about a dozen birdbaths in his yard not taken care of. Think I'm wanting perennial flowering plants with annuals in the mix that bloom different times so I have color almost all the time. Not much of each because space is limited. Like hostas but don't want to waste the limited space for what leaves wither/brown off til they recoup. Oh...here is the photo. Poor Remi worked hard whole day in blazing heat and intense humidity yesterday...

No, actually I don't have a lot of space, maybe 1/4 acre. In the backyard the sun doesn't hit the gardens until around 11 am, because of all the tall oaks, and a big cottonwood. The only place I could get full sun all day here,

is at the strip of lawn next to the street, but I'm not ready to take in that project yet. I like your birdbath. I have a little knee high metal one with a little bird on it. I took a picture of my 2 pots by the front door. One has Impatiens, single and double rose flowered, polka dot plants, and vinca vine. The other pot has the Alternanthera, that's related to your 'Dragon's Breath', and Petunias.

Diane, my pictures wouldn't load. I'll have to try it on my laptop, what a pain!

Diane, I'm having issues with the laptop now. Probably won't be able to post any photos for awhile.

I somehow managed one pic.

Hi Diane, hope everything is good with you. I've been doing a lot of watering, because we are having a heatwave, and a drought. Had to get out of the hot sun. I'm still transplanting things here and there. I have a fold up chair in the garden shading a couple things I transplanted last night. I don't think I'll be posting any more pics on here for awhile. It's not worth the hastle. I've complained about it twice already. And they say the problem is either my device or browser. They say to install the latest version of google chrome. Well, I have google chrome, and it gets updated automatically. I hate messing with computers, and browsers, and all that. I had chipmunks digging holes in my garden, but since I stopped putting out birdseed, and started watering regularly, they haven't been a problem.

Started to submit a post to you the other day. Suddenly an alert popped up telling me to shut down my computer like none I've ever seen before. Had me going. Imac/Apple PCs/laptops never contract "bugs" in my experience, but wondered if this from Houzz. Luckily, my PC rebooted. I go NUTS if my PC hits problems and can't go online. Going to hit submit now, as a tester.

I get those warnings too sometimes. I think it's usually a scam trying to get people to spend money on a virus scan they don't need, but Houzz does have a lot of technical problems at the moment. I tried getting back to using the macbook, but I was having problems with photos on it too, and then the screen froze. It's so hot and dry outside. The heat can really drain your energy. I have to water the plants around the big cottonwood every other day. I think the tree roots soak up a lot of the water.

It did it again! The whole screen comes down like a shade. The black screen comes up with foreign language I think. and I have to shut down. Doesn't happen anywhere else I go online.

My main PC I have unplugged because of the pop up I mentioned which was doing it more and then later when not on Houzz. Freezes up the Imac PC, I am so fond of. Am upset and don't know what to do, since Apple PCs and laptops usually never have such issues. So am on my small laptop for now, and leery being on Houzz site. Of all times for me to be in a huff, not speaking to my husband who I do not live with anyway. He could rectify the issue with my IMAC in short order. Easy going me just decided I had enough. Oh well.......darn and I was having fun chatting with you, and searching on Houzz. My facebook page is under Diane Vitale...or Diane Jessica Vitale.. photo of me with reddish long hair blowing a kiss. ..... could ask to friend me.

Good luck. I'm not very computer literate, so wish I could give some advice but I can't. Houzz sent me an email asking how I would rate their help, and I gave them the lowest poor rating. If I should dissapear for a while it's because I'm fed up with their nonsense.

Went out to dinner with husband last night, and he says he will see about my Imac. Not holding my breath. Says it's not a virus. Very strange happening. Am still using the little laptop since happening. I searched for other flower gardening forums prior to getting on here. Didn't see much action, where here there is. Unfortunately, this forum set up/arrangement whatever....is very confusing to me. but I guess it's worth the hassle, to me, to connect and get some info.

Being flower hungry, I just ordered Majestic Giant II pansy seeds. Supposedly a hardy for the low south, cold tolerant variety which can be sown at this time. Think needs min. 60 degrees to germinate. Maybe I'll double check that one. Info is limited for the Majestic Giant II series (3-4" blooms). Can tolerate some shade. Oh well, I'll take the chance and try. Won't sow direct in ground outdoors. Better sheltered under my carport I'm thinking at first. If it takes, might use in hanging baskets so Callum won't dig up. Wish there were other flowering plants I could begin at this time, and have blooming this fall/winter, and take dappled sun/shade.

Well, it will seem strange not chatting, if you go poof.

I'm usually on the name that plant forum where we identify plants for people. It's one of the most active forums. You should follow it a little if you like learning about new plants. The perennials forum moves a little faster than this annuals forum.I hope you start stepping out and get more active in some of these forums. I'm always on them, asking 'dumb' questions. There are so many nice people here. Don't be afraid to post more threads. You could even do one asking if anyone has had experience growing that pansy you're are going to plant. See, I don't have any experience with it, but there are probably a lot of people that have. On the positive side, I have had some run ins with members that ended in huge arguments, but now, me and those people are the closest of friends here. There is a silver lining. Still very hot and dry here. It sprinkled a little bit last night, but it was just a tease, not enough to really help anything. I was watering everything yesterday. I was connecting 2 hoses together so I could water the plants in the front yard, because the front spicket is busted. The older hose had a hole in it, so I ended up getting soaking wet. I downloaded the firefox browser and was able to post pictures in the comments. I haven't tried posting an ad with a picture yet, so not sure how much better things actually are. I should be around here somewhere. I won't dissapear completly, but might take a few days off to get caught up in the garden and the house. I like pansies. I've grown the regular mixed colored ones, the black pansies, and the johnny jump ups.

I've gone on the hydrangea section forum just a little while ago, asking for advice. Took some cuttings from my mother plant in June. I will look around at that section, as well, you mentioned, and ask about the pansies. ooooooooooh you did have a time of it, getting all wet. I need a spigot in my front yard.

That's great that you're stepping out some. I wasn't even mindful that there was a hydrangea forum. Some of the forums on here get very few visitors and could almost be declared dead. You can kind of get an idea if they are by looking at the dates for the most recent posts. I was out tweeking my gardens. Taking plants that are getting crowded out, and moving them to little barren holes that need filling. Yeah, it's August and I'm still planting. Whatever makes you happy!

Diane, how is the Dragons breath doing? And the other ones? My clearance plants seem to have settled in nicely. Never planted pansies from seeds, and only the “normal” kind. I usually plant them end of September when it gets a bit cooler. They survive the winter (a bit sad looking at times) and come back in full force by the beginning of March. Jay, wish I had your energy. Was out pulling weeds for a couple of hours. Spent half the time slapping at mosquitos. Seems there is more rain than usual. Less dragging the hoses around. That’s something, but the mosquitos are something else. Constantly emptying the saucers and changing the water in the bird baths so the larvae don’t stand a chance.

I don't see how to reply to individual posts. Hmmmm. And if you click on "follow" a member, what happens then?

Jay: I have noted there is not much action on different forums as you mentioned. If put a post with a question just under gardenweb advice then ALL can see? Like wanting info about the Giant pansies? You are keeping busy in your yard, and that's great.

Iris: I hate mosquitoes. I lived in rural Houston area for five years too long. The mosquitoes were HUGE and in mass. Couldn't stand being out on the covered patio for a few minutes under an outdoor ceiling fan while constantly swatting with a newspaper/mag. Bites left large welts all over. Sprays only helped a tad for a day. There are mosquitoes here in my area of NC, but not anywhere to that degree. My Dragons breath is hanging on. I can't do the physical part of much since I can barely walk with sciatica and arthritis. Depend on friend, Remi, who stays in a room in my home, who does for me when he can. I have to see if he can help me do some things in yard today, however ooops forgot...have to drive him to some appts at drs today that he has which kinda messes up working on yard.

Diane, You should be able to just scroll down to where it says, leave a comment. Let me know if you're still having problems. Not everyone can see every post. Houzz has it set up now so that you can post a thread on three different forums at the same time. So any comments posted will appear in all 3 forums. I don't really like it. Hard to have a casual semi intimate, conversation, and do battle on three different fronts all at the same time.

For example, on this thread, both you and Iris have left comments one after the other, but there is no reply comment box to reply to you both separately; only the comment box at bottom below both your individual comments to me. Hope I have explained clearly. Strange, but when in Rome.....

Well, you have to use that box to comment. You just have to take it upon yourself to reply to us both. You can either address us both within one comment, or address one of us in a comment, and then imediately after address the other in a follow up comment. It's easier to answer, and ask questions and catch up with other members by addressing them all in one comment. No one is going to feel bad if their are others that are also responded to in the same comment, and they aren't made the complete center of attention. Did I answer what you were asking, or did you mean something completely different? My heads a little foggy at the moment.

I don’t mind it either. Sometimes some nice discussions are coming out of others chiming in to a response you gave to one person. If you want to ask something privately, there is an option to message somebody. Otherwise everything is for all to see. I found a couple of things is my garden earlier that are a mystery to me. Again. Going to try to figure them out by myself after dinner, otherwise you will find me asking questions that are obvious to others later on....

Diane, there is the Name That Plant forum here. That's a very active forum, and I spend a lot of time there. Just post a picture of the plant you want identified. There are some very sweet people over there. That's if you aren't able to i.d. your mystery plants yourself.

Get it. Will do. Thanks to you both.

Iris, I saw those big weeds you were having trouble pulling out. How did they find their way to your yard? Diane, do you harvest and eat the pecans from your trees? Now I'm thinking about prailines and pecan pies. And sticky buns.

Jay: oh gosh, I never pay attention to the pecans that fall from my trees. The kind of trees I have produce very few and very small pecans with harder shells. Too bad. My husband's biggest old pecan tree on his property was uprooted by last year's hurricane. It had major amount of very large pecans - softer shelled. He has a few other pecan trees. One that has a fairly nice pecan and not so hard shelled. The pecan trees don't have pecans on them every year. Every other year or 3rd year, I was told. Many in the rural here have pecan trees. Some gather and sell, some people use only for their personal baking needs. Certain times, I will see a lot of ads/signs for pecans for sale either shelled or un-shelled preferably. Southerners in this area, LOVE, love love their pecans. Pecan pies are highly desirable, here. If they don't bake them for themselves, they are bought at local bakeries. Many of their desserts have pecans in them or atop, even jello type desserts, salads, as well as cakes. I just went to a buffet and had a wedge of chocolate cake and I picked all the small bits of pecan off of the frosting. I've just never liked pecans or any nuts in desserts, pies, or candies.

Since moving to rural NC, it's interesting what different foods are highly desirable to the locals. One of which is "boiled peanuts". (yuck) but they love them. Peanuts are grown a lot here, too. I thought peanuts grew on trees. LOL. I could go on and on about their food preferences which is miles apart from what I've ever known. When in Rome.....

Diane, I see these boiled peanut stands on the corner of almost every gas station around here. In 25 years, I still have to even try them.

Jay, we live in a fairly open area with big properties. There are still cow pastures on the next road over. So there are constantly new to me plants popping up. Some are lovely wildflowers, like Jewelweed. Most are weeds I am going to have to fight for years to come. It’s hard figuring out which is which. The people on the Name that Plant forum are extremely helpful.

Iris: well you haven't missed anything. I tried ONE boiled peanut about 5 yrs ago. YUCK. Can't quite figure out why so much extra work to make and want to eat soggy peanuts. LOL. Each to their own. Sure, Southerners wouldn't like some of foods I grew up on, ex: eggplant parmigiana, or stuffed artichokes, or pasta e fagioli......

I am from Germany, so it was an adjustment for me, too. Especially with the sweets like cake and chocolate. Before Christmas, I am actually still ordering the chocolates for the tree and some ingredients for my cookies from there. Can’t have Christmas without Vanilla Kipferl. I love it here though. Everybody was so friendly right from the beginning. Still get asked where I am from after the first sentence. Can’t get that southern drawl.

Ahhhhhh German bakeries are the very best! I grew up on Long Island, NY where there were many fine German bakeries. I've heard they have about all gone the wayside thru the years. I have NEVER tasted delicious bakery goods again, even close, since leaving Long Island when I was a young teen. oooooh everything was divine. Only fond memories now. It's making my mouth water thinking right now. It surely must have been an adjustment for you. I've been here 12 years in NC, and don't think I have any kind of a Southern accent developed. People wonder still where I'm from. They often think I'm a "yankee". LOL. And I'll tell them.."OH NO...I am from the South too. Southern California that is." Most people here are very sweet. And even the young kids are usually very respectful. "Yes, Mame. Yes, sir", which is unlike many of the other regions/states. Of course, it helps when one is in the Bible belt, and in a rural area. You don't want to work at a Southern drawl/accent. It's good to be your unique self. I've always admired those from different parts of the world/countries. I get a kick at hearing a foreign accent like from France, Germany, etc. Italians around here are a rarity. They can't pronounce my Italian last name correctly, yet it is not an uncommon name in let's say NY, PA, Boston, San Francisco, etc etc where there are many Italians. (my grandmother was a Schmidt, from Germany, my other grandparents were from Naples)

What a coincidence! My older daughter is living on Long Island now. Will have to ask if there are still some good bakeries around. People have a hard time with my last name, too. For the most part I just tell them to call me Iris.

When I grew up on Long Island, Nassau County, North Bellmore, it had lovely surrounding areas, country estates, great restaurants, and shopping spots. My Aunts, now deceased, lived in their same homes thru the decades. One in particular, her neighborhood sounded like it turned into a war zone with most homes having barred iron windows etc etc. with police helicopters flying over head at night Sad, how things change. Think my Aunt said some German bakeries were in the malls. I have not been back to Long Island since 1964.

Hello Diane. I am just north of you in Danville Virginia. I have never grown the dragon's breath but I did collect seeds from some last year which were the tall variety with magenta flowers. Just take a clean bucket to the garden and bend the dried flower over into it and give it a firm shake. If you try to pull the plant up or cut it down you will surely spill seeds all in the soil. Good luck growing some next year in the sun.

Hi Harold. Thanks for tuning in. I assume one waits until the "plumes" are dried up/tan-brown looking? Good idea about collecting. When time, I was going to cut off one stem at a time very carefully first, to make it easy on myself then shake into something. When are you going to sow your DB seeds?

BTW: hmmm..I doubt your climate is like here in the low south. Picture high 80s to 90s and HIGH humidity. Don't know if you have experienced very high humidity climates...but anyway. I'm going to try to germinate Majestic Giant II pansy seeds tomorrow since it's variety is very cold/heat tolerant for a showing of flowers in fall/winter season. My quandry is.... usually it is said to dome the seeds til a sign of sprouting. Aokay by me, except since it's such high humidity and temps, would the seeds possibly die off with such an intense steam bath?

Hello Diane. Yes I live in a hot and humid Zone. I am just 55 miles north of Greensboro North Carolina right on the state line. The seed I collected was not dragon's breath. There was a local gas station which had plenty of plants and they let me collect the seeds. I do not know the variety name. They are much taller than yours and the flowers are a dark magenta. I was able to get 40000 seeds and I did not even go to every plant. I sent 20,000 of them to Valerie in Massachusetts for the newbie seed project.

Ps. I have never had good luck getting pansies to germinate so I can't speak to that. But I would believe that it is far too late in the year to get them started in time for some blooms. Hopefully someone else will chime in on that.

Diane, I would definitely open it up for a bit each day. Otherwise your seeds might just grow mold.

Diane, I have steambaked more seeds and seedlings in germination flats than I can count. If you put those trays out with the domes on, in full sun, they're going to bake. And if the tray is black it will make it even hotter. I would suggest putting it under filtered sunlight.

Diane, there is a Growing from Seed forum here also, with discussions on putting trays out in the sun. If you have time, take a look.

THANKS Harold, Jay and Iris for all your thoughts. Mighty grateful. I had planned on putting seed trays under my covered patio, not in direct sun, and was debating about dome or no dome. Now, mulling it over, I'm inclined to take some of the seeds and doing the paper towel/baggie method, and leaving the bags inside my house...which is has no CAC....for starting up germination. I will go to the "Growing from seed" forum on here as mentioned by Jay.

Jay: thanks about mentioning "black" seed trays. Those are the trays I have, if I didn't go a different way. Had not even thought about it the black making it hotter. You are a gem.

Harold: ahhhhh I get now where you are kinda. Greensboro is 3 hours away going north from me...which as I remember being there once has the hills, much more elevated. I'm fairly close to the ocean. A lot of swamps in my rural area. It's really a steam bath out there daily, here. I once lived in rural North Houston area for 5 yrs. Couldn't wait to get out of there. The heat and HUMIDITY was FEROCIOUS, and at that time with ex husband we had a new large home with two CAC and ceiling fans in each room going 24/7. It was unbearable most of the year outside. Any gardening I tried there was a waste of time.

Did you have lizards in Houston? Hope you're doing great. Hard to get much done in this summer heat. If you have any more questions, let me know. I said a prayer for your Pansy seeds.

Hi Jay. I remember oodles of frogs, huge mosquitoes and spiders, and snakes about particularly when it rained in Houston hard our acreage looked like a lake and sounds of lagoon?Jungle? all kinds of sounds.

ooh so nice of you to say pansy prayers. On 8.17.18, I did the H2O with a tad of H2O2 on paper towel inserted in baggie. Yesterday using my magnifying eyeglasses, I saw teeeeensy white on the Majestic Giant II teeensy seeds. Only did about 30 seeds. Must be germinating. Haven't checked today. Have been rushed, and my internet was out for days until a couple of hours ago. If all looks good in a couple of days or so.., will put in dirt w/drainage in cups or small pots. From what I've heard, pansies don't like heat, but this variety is suppose to be heat/cold tolerant.,,Still..... My concern is where to place the wee babies since it's HOT inside and OUTSIDE. Maybe I should keep in my bedroom, the only room, with a wall/window AC probably around 70ish degrees. My laundry room is a steam bath where I have shelves and a few windows.

Diane, Hi! How's it going? Things have been kind of crazy lately, and I've lost track.Hope you're staying cool in all this brutal summer heat. The sun is so hot here that all the plants wilt, even after being deeply watered. It felt like my skin was burning today. How's that germination thing going, have you started yet? You probably got some good information on here about it I hope. I live too far north to grow pansies in the winter. You can grow them in the winter where you are right? I had my Amaranths growing in a big pot and the wind knocked it over. You know they have those tender succulant stems, well several stems broke off. At first I thought the deer did it, because they've been browsing in the yard, but I found out it was the wind. How are your dragon's breath Celosias doing? Nice talking to you again. Jay