Never heard of Napoleon(?!) Whatever brand you get, be advised that the quality of the installation is FAR more important than any brand recommendation.

Depending on model quoted. AmStd...never heard of Napoleon and would not consider Goodman for my dog's house...

IMO

Napoleon is a Canadian brand. They are generally well thought of.

Tigerdunes,

Why do you not like Goodman ? I thought was a lot of commonality in parts by the various manufacturers. I read somewhere that Goodman got a bad rep because it was easy to buy their equipment at a deep discount online and the installs were not done properly .

There is nothing wrong with the Goodman brand. I have put in countless Goodman products over the years, the failure rates are comparable to 'ANY' brand.

I also put in American Standard at my previous home, it failed just as much as any Goodman brands I've seen.

The thought that Goodman is somehow inferior to anything else I believe is tied to the old noisy condensers they made back in the early 90's. But everything has changed since then. Goodman's parent company is Daikin. Ownership plays a big role in how a manufacturer does things.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

I do think reputation of the Goodman brand is hurt by having an excessive amount of poor installations. For some reason the Goodman sales executive think it is more profitable to sell to anyone who has a credit card. In my opinion that may be good for profits but it is not good for consumers. The reason is a Goodman dealer who wants to do a proper installation and provide great post sales service has to compete with every HVAC tech doing side jobs. Buyers don't understand the difference so most companies who install a Goodman product have to cut corners in order to stay competitive. It is unfortunate but that is the way it seems to work.

There are many posts on this forum about people asking if they should fix their 20+ year old furnace or condenser. Just about every brand is mentioned. But it is rare if ever someone is asking for advice to repair 20+ year old Goodman equipment. It is as if the equipment never makes it to 20 years. Some of that could be blamed on bad installations. But I would think some of it is due to the quality of the equipment.

As a side note I rarely see Goodman equipment being installed in homes in my area. I am not sure the reason for this.

Goodman has a solid "bottom of the market, last choice, cheap" reputation in my area. For whatever reason, the more highly regarded HVAC contractors stick to the top names and don't sell Goodman. It's what you'd expect to see in a relatively inexpensive basic tract or entry level house.

Part of what may contribute to Goodman's less than solid public reputation is that it's one of the few national brands that allows sales directly to homeowners. The others will only sell to qualified HVAC contractors/installers to help insure a safe and competent installation. You might find a Goodman furnace in a home that was installed as a DIY project - clearly something to avoid.

Sure, there are plenty of licensed HVAC contractors who do shoddy work but a consumer has a better chance of things being done right by using one with a good reputation (who likely chooses other than Goodman equipment).

There are more posts on here with problems of Trane more than anything else. Yet it's hard to stop a Trane?

The infamous Bryant thread where the system has never worked right since day one?

Belief is a funny thing.

Whether there are more posts about Trane or anything else means little. If using an experienced contractor with a strong track record, they'll make it right. I use Yelp as a starting point when looking for home services and then ask for customer references. It works for me, that's how I found an excellent HVAC contractor with consistently high customer satisfaction comments. They did a big job for me, replacing two complete systems and repairing ducts.

Beliefs? Consumer attitudes and expectations? That's normal human behavior. That's what sales and marketing are all about.

The infamous Bryant thread is a saga about a botched installation and a contractor who whatever reason does not want or know how to resolve the issues.

All equipment will eventually need to be repaired. The question is how often. A poor installation looks like bad equipment problem, but in many cases it is not.

Why are so many interpreting tigerdunes comment as a knock on Goodman's quality? Maybe Goodman doesn't make a unit that's small enough for his dog's house.

My two cents.

Every brand and every installer has good things and bad things said about them. So I pay more attention to how they interact with me. Do they seem honest? Are they on time? How do they enter my house when they come to inspect and recommend a system. Do they take off their shoes or put on blue booties? How do they treat my wife when she asks questions?

In every house I have owned, I have had to replace the furnace. I never used a contractor that I didn't feel comfortable with and I have never had a problem. I almost went with the low bidder one time as he was highly recommended, But, he kept selling to me and ignored my wife. I found out later he was arrested for fraud.

I have always felt that it is better to get the best product you can afford, from the contractor you feel the most comfortable with.

And, go with the most energy efficient unit as well. The difference in heat quality is amazing. The more efficient ones put out a gentler heat that doesn't come blasting out when it kicks in. And the rooms stay more consistent in temp.

I have always used Carrier for some reason. I think Bryant is a sister company or at least was at one time.

The house we had built had a Goodman furnace in it. (we had no choice in vendor) and in the 2 years we lived there, we had 3 service calls, for the same thing. I was going to replace the furnace with a new one but we bought the house I grew up in and moved before I got around to it.

Goodman equipment is as good as any other brand. Goodman is part of the largest HVAC manufacturer in the world (Daikin). They use mostly the same parts as other brands (compressors, fan motors, etc). I've found little correlation between those contractors who use Goodman vs Trane in terms of istallation quality and reliability. And I find online references (and even in-person references) of little use, as most homeowners don't know what a good installation is (unless there's gross incompetence and the system just doesn't work - like the infamous "Bryant thread").

Ask lots of questions of an installer. If they are patient with you and answer you questions, they will likely take the time to do a good installation.

Whether there are more posts about Trane or anything else means little.

Elmer,

So you'll continue to believe 'It's hard to stop a Trane?'

You'll believe consumer reports?

Even though there are continually more problems with Trane products on this board?

Yep, belief is a funny thing alright.

What I believe is that random comments from homeowners or others about brands, whether communicated in person or with a forum like this, don't mean much. Some complain, some don't. Is the random outcome of who speaks publicly, what and where, and who with similar experiences don't, something that provides meaningful information? I don't think so.

For HVAC stuff, the experience, reputation, and integrity of the contractor matters. If they stand behind their work as they should, that alone helps ensure the right equipment is chosen.

What I don't believe or understand, at a time that should be the busiest of the year in your hot area, is that you have spare time to be active on this forum. And how or why you think the kind of comments you often make would enhance your public image and make people want to call you.

I love Goodman. I have rent homes and they all have Goodman units. If installed properly it is as good or bad as anything else on the market. I like simple. When I remove the panel on the condenser all I want to see is a capacitor and contactor. A defrost board is acceptable on a heat pump. Despite energy efficiency no multi stage units for me. They cost more and are more costly to repair. Take the TXV for example. Not if it will fail, just when. Then the system has to be opened to replace the darn thing. How often do you have to replace an orifice? Keep it simple. at the end of the day the homeowner/occupant just wants to be cool. Perhaps in time as the technology becomes more dependable and affordable it may change my opinion. Right now, on and off are fine by me.

I've noticed a lot of comments by HVAC techs saying that Goodman has the worst quality. I have not noticed a similar number of comments from HVAC techs about other brands.

Consumer Reports does not have data for furnaces, but CR ranks American Standard as the most reliable brand for both central air conditioners and heat pumps. CR ranks Goodman as one of the less reliable brands.

Consumer Reports data shows 22% of Goodman central air conditioning units break down within the first 5 years. The only other brands with worse reliability are Rheem at 24% and York at 25%. Consumer Reports mentions, "These findings are based on the results of Consumer Reports’ 2016 Fall Product Reliability Survey of 14,452 owners of conventional central air conditioning systems, purchased new between 2009 and 2016."

Consumer Reports also has data for heat pumps where Goodman is again towards the bottom of the list requiring a repair in 35% of their heat pumps in the first 5 years. The only brand with a worse repair record is Rheem at 39%. Consumer Reports mentions, "That’s what we found based on the feedback of 7,816 subscribers, who reported on their experiences with heat pumps installed between 2011 and 2016."

Based on the CR data and the bad reputation that Goodman has for quality, I would go with American Standard.

Napoleon is a Canadian brand of furnace? I'm Canadian, never heard of it.

Goodman is an excellent product.

What I don't believe or understand, at a time that should be the busiest of the year in your hot area, is that you have spare time to be active on this forum. And how or why you think the kind of comments you often make would enhance your public image and make people want to call you.

What does 'truth' do to you? It exposes you for what you are, does it not?

What does 'truth' do for me? It makes people flee, because they have this notion that there is some shiny name on the side of a piece of equipment that covers any and all fallacies exposed by me on this board.

I would rather be up front and honest with what I do, it doesn't pay me to run a call with all these so called fallacies running around on forum boards.

I remember a time when 'truth' was a good thing. I still stand firm in that belief. You are entitled to what ever opinion you want.

If you want the truth, I service the Katy, Texas area.

I wish you well and hope you understand that the relevance and nature of your comments, in this thread as often in others, aren't always understood and don't always make a good impression.

Well let me inflect a little more of what I mean, Elmer.

On this board and probably many others, there is this rush to say that one brand, maybe two brands are far superior brands above that of Goodman and many cases Lennox even.

If Goodman is such a bad product as those claims go and I have installed countless Goodman products (probably more than a 100 pieces if I had to guess) and many other low name generic brands to fix and or repair systems. These products (all of them) that I've installed personally have a 10 year warranty from the manufacturer. I never install anything with less than a 10 year part warranty.

I have only been in business for 10 years on my own. 23 years in HVAC as a whole.

So if these brands (8 different) over the years are so bad and so inferior to Trane, Carrier and the like...

Why is it that I have all this free time on my hands?

You know the Truth is like a double edged sword. At least this is how it is described in the bible, is it not described this way?

If I point out the fault of what people are doing, is this not truth?

But people these days, flee from the truth. They view the truth as an attack.

BUT, it's the truth.

Your response is to lie to save people's feelings? Think long and hard on that and you will see my position very clearly.

What I do works, --- all the free time I have that I spend here and else where proves it --- if it doesn't work I will fix it - NO EXCUSES -, I am capable to do that otherwise again how would I have so much free time to spend on this board?

What I've done for countless others hundreds and hundreds of homes over the last 10 years. I can do the same for you, the silent reader.

Fast service, typically to your door within a few hours or less everyday. (Katy, Texas Area) In most cases your HVAC system is back on line within 3 hours from when you place the call.

You've said it all. Have a good day.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to present my case. Enjoy the rest of your weekend Elmer.

How does a 7 year old discussion about choosing which furnace brands are the most reliable erupt into a debate about R290 refrigerant?

It's just the latest version of fear mongering about chemical refrigerant phase outs by a guy who never took a high school chemistry class and whose trade school was forced to close because the curriculum failed to meet the minimum standards for reimbursement by the VA. That said, I believe Ray's not-ready-for-prime-time videos meet the definition of looney tunes.

Why not create a new post where you can share your subject matter "expertise"? It would be easier for interested houzzers to find and you won't need to hijack threads to insert off-topic material.

This is a seven year old thread, Ray. If you want to share your perspectives about more recent gas appliance bans and/or refrigerant phase outs, a new thread would be more searchable and more appropriate.