You no longer need as much distance for tv viewing. Current tvs are sharp enough without noticeable pixels. You can be much closer to an oled or other high end tv. . . . . That aside, this kitchen/butlers pantry isn't a good use of your space. So no. I wouldn't give up living room space for this design. Post a measured floor plan of the whole space for some options. Include lots of measurements. I'd drop the side counter and butlers pantry to start.

I don't actually love that layout that much. I'd want far more drawers and a real hood over the range. Plus the corner where the range is looks very awkward.

" So no. I wouldn't give up living room space for this design. "

I agree - that wouldn't be my "awesome kitchen" design, but conceptually, I'd still prioritize kitchen over living room, should I have the choice.

The left side of the kitchen layout confuses me. It also looks like there are 2 dishwashers and why is the window so short? Either a bad kitchen designer or someone who doesn't know how to use the software program.

I'm not answering your question but I second the opinion to put drawers instead of cabinets in as many places as I could.
To answer another commenter, (this is only a guess though!) if this is a kosher kitchen then two dishwashers make perfect sense

This design is, as has already been said, less than ideal. The funky corner in the far left, the odd low short window that is dwarfed by the flanking cabinetry, the not 1, not 2, but what appears to possibly be 3 dishwashers, a single drawer stack and the rest door cabinets, and a minimum of counter space in the sweet spot of prep area between sink and cooktop.

Add this to the fact that your KD’s skills in the software and I would look for a new KD.

I also question the need for a butlers pantry in a house with such a modest living space, as well as the oversized island with lowered area for seating. This is not conducive to entertaining and mingling, which is usually the reason for such a large open kitchen. guests will not stand at a table height counter any more than they stand around the kitchen table. Instead, you will have guests standing at the ends of the island in front of the refrigerator and the aisle by the range.

Is there a dining area anywhere or is the counter the only one? Have you allowed enough overhang past the cabinets (minimum 18” for table height counter) to allow sufficient legroom? Chairs at the low counter will eat into your living area too.

How many are in your family with the tiny living space? Are there children?

ETA I realize now that the 3rd “dishwasher” is some kind of refrigeration. And I assumed, wrongly, it seems, that a full size fridge was on the wall to the right but on closer inspection after lots of comments, it doesn’t appear to be. So now I’m even more confused about this strange layout.

Not a fan of this plan.

I don't even see a standard sized refrigerator. Is there one in an adjoining pantry or are you using an undersized under/cabinet refrigerator? ????

You need a taller window over your sink. If you are not having your cabinets go all the way to the ceiling, then have the top of your window and the top of all your cabinets the same height for symmetry. Your cabinets will look better if all their tops are even. Better yet. have your overhead cabinets go all the way to the ceiling -- you can store seldom used items on that top space -- except over the window where a cornice can hide much needed lighting for the sink.

Unless there is a door in the back left corner, you've got an awkward space there -- you need a better design for the corner. You might consider leaving that wall on the left but opening it up as a peninsula.

That extra shorter cabinet by/attached to your island looks odd and unnecessarily takes up space.

You could change the island to a wheeled table/cart, enabling you to have the option to move it not only to your patio when you entertain outdoors but out of the way when you need more room in your living/sitting area..

When you're standing in front of the stove, you're blocking a major path way to the refrigerator and pantry. No kitchen table? What was your "wish list" for your designer?

That's a really tiny living room. I can't imagine arranging furniture in that size.

As noted above there are issues with this layout,

but why do you need so many cabinet when you have a butlers pantry? Base cabinets should have all pot drawers. All of my dishes & small appliances are in base cabinets. I only have 2 upper cabinets for glasses & cups. No food in upper cabinets. Food belongs in a pantry or pantry cabinet.

If you want a kitchen to really work place your items correctly.

that’s like 8’ x 15.5’. Can a living room this size work and not look awkward

No, that's just too small for a workable living room.

I understand your point about using your square footage where you really need it ... but a kitchen this size next to an under-sized living room will seem out of proportion.

Where's your table?

I don't actually love that layout that much. I'd want far more drawers and a real hood over the range. Plus the corner where the range is looks very awkward.

I agree:

- With this much kitchen space, I'd want much more window space over the sink ... and this window seems to be super short for some reason. Consider a special window here too: a bay window or box bay window will give you extra space for the faucet. Your sink is the most-used appliance in your kitchen, so you should make it special ... look into oversized ledge sinks.

- I don't care for the snaggletooth look on the uppers, though that is opinion.

- I agree that the range corner could use some work.

- I'd go with more drawers and fewer traditional cabinets ...drawers are one of the few things this board endorses universally.

- I don't get the little cabinet sticking out from the front of the island.

- You have space for a larger island in this layout.

- I think you're planning a walk-in pantry, not a butler's pantry.

- Regardless of the type of pantry, I don't like the idea of the refrigerator being out of the kitchen itself.

- Are those two dishwashers ... but one of them isn't adjacent to the sink?

- Have you mapped out zones (i.e., a baking area, an area for dishware) in the kitchen, or have you just placed cabinets where you think they'll look nice?

Seriously, you can do eons better than this. Consider the way we cook: You've correctly placed all your storage in the same area, but you want your food to "progress" through the kitchen in a straight line ... as you've placed things, you'll carry food from the pantry to the sink (passing over the range) ... then you'll backtrack towards the range ... and then pass over the sink again to reach the dishwasher.

Do some reading on what WORKS in a FUNCTIONAL kitchen ... loads of information is available, and a little bit of homework will result in a hugely improved finished kitchen.

The layout is a little odd in that it doesn't flow efficiently for cooking: Butlers pantry for refrigerated items and dry goods, pass the stove to wash, prep on the the right of sink (since that's the most expansive area) then back track for cooking with minimal space for landing and plating. Then there are three path ways that converge right at the range. That's potentially problematic. With a brand new kitchen design, I think you can do better.

A great post, on what I think was once Garden Web, recommends this practical order: Ice, water, stone, fire. Here's the link. It's a good and informative read.

[Looking for Layout Help?[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first-dsvw-vd~2699918)

Basically, you get your food items from the pantry/fridge (ice), take them to the sink to rinse and clean (water), then move them along to a prep surface (stone) and finally cook them (fire).

That aside, I think the question to ask yourself, is where do you and your family spend most of your time together? If it's in the kitchen, then maybe borrowing space from the living area won't be a big deal. But it will likely cause furniture arrangement challenges. If you spend more of your time in the living area, then I wouldn't sacrifice the space. If they are equal, give each space its fair shake.

I think it would be good to come up with a plan that integrates both spaces based on how you live, then you can make sure your most important desires are met.

" No, that's just too small for a workable living room. "

No, that opinion is baloney. You don't know anything about her home or family, yet you feel you can tell her what is appropriate or not. I know lots of families (let alone solos) in homes with smaller living rooms than that and they manage to enjoy their life and home just fine. My best friend lives with her husband and 2 sons, and their living room is also about 120 sq ft. Another friend and her husband live happily with a living room of about 100 sq ft. I think I'm lucky to have an apartment with almost 150 sq of living room. The idea that anything less than spacious is unacceptable is ridiculous, IMO. (I always knew this site was like house porn, LOL, designed to inspire people to be unhappy and constantly wanting something else.)

I have a 14.5'x17' living room and I'm a single person with a NYC apartment. Now granted, it's actually kind of palatial by NYC standards but it would be considered small in the rest of the country, especially for a family. And you are thinking of going even smaller.

Even my NYC apartment bedroom is bigger than your planned living room. It's 11.5" x 17'.

An 8'x15' space is SMALL, especially with furniture.

If I were you I'd nix the island because visually it cuts the room in half and if there's seating then when the chairs are pulled out they will encroach in to the living room and possibly block the TV view or flow of socializing.

Do you have a formal dining room in the house?

If so the island is redundant, in an area where space is at a premium. Better to eat in the dining room and skip built in eating space in the kitchen. If the new butler's pantry was the old dining room you'd frankly be better off keeping a dining room. A butler's pantry is a luxury when a pantry cabinet and bar cart could do the same job.

If you don't have a dining room then you might want to consider a regular table and chairs in the kitchen, which would be less imposing and is also more comfortable. And it might interfere with the living room less because it wouldn't create a permanent "wall" and could be pushed back a bit for parties. A table with leaves could be expanded for Holiday dinners but compact the rest of the time.

Or you could consider a small breakfast bar / peninsula attached to the far left base cabinets. That would give you an eating area without cutting in to the central area so much.

A lot of people love kitchen islands but they are big, tall fixed objects and sometimes cause more problems than they solve.

It would also be helpful if the kitchen and living room have the same flooring because then it's going to read more like a nice sized great room instead of a two smallish rooms.

It just doesn't make sense to have a house with a butler's pantry but a living room smaller than an NYC apartment's bedroom. An 8'x15' room is 120 square feet. That's just not the size of a standard living room. It's the size of a bedroom and a small one.

No. Not a great plan.

I'd never opt for the path to the refrigerator going past the cooking area. I don't need anyone walking behind me when I'm stepping back to drain pasta, toss the sauté pan, or opening the oven. What a pain.

How will you use the butler's pantry? Is it on the way to the dining room? Does it have a sink, dishwasher, dish storage?

My kitchen is where I work. I love hanging out with my family in the living room, lounging on soft furniture, enjoying a game or watching TV. No, I wouldn't reduce it to 8x15. That's a wide hall and you'd end up with diner seating on a long sofa. Draw it out on graph paper and try to furnish it. Then, mock it up in the space. You won't love it.

Without knowing where the other rooms are located, I won't hazard a guess at layout. You have plenty of room in what's shown to fit all the appliances and worktops. No need to place the fridge so awkwardly.

What's the reasoning behind two levels at the island? I'd choose countertop height or table height. Table height is nice for baking ergonomics or if you're small in stature.

Alternate idea:

Expand the butler's pantry several feet to the right and just make it a nice, formal dining room instead. Then eat in there and let the kitchen and living room area be a huge great room for entertaining. Rework the kitchen design. No island. Add a tall pantry cabinet to the kitchen for pantry storage.

That's a better division of space for the way most people entertain and leaves you with three decent sized areas for dining, cooking and entertaining.

But I agree with other people that we need more information about the rest of the house. Is there a family room or den? Is there a formal dining room?

If this area is your main living space then the plan is way too lopsided in the way it allocates space. Dining,cooking and entertaining are equally important and should at least have three equal spaces.

But if you have other living and dining areas in your house then this kitchen design might only need some small changes.

Wait wait wait.. all that kitchen space and the KD plopped in a standard four-burner range? For shame.

Seriously, there seems to be a disconnect between the cooking capacity (standard range) and the dishwashing capacity (two dishwashers - I'm going to guess the third thing is a wine fridge).

Can you clarify the role of the butler's pantry? Traditionally, they were for storing the china, crystal, and silver, while the regular pantry was for foodstuffs.

And yes I agree that the sprawlingly spacious kitchen does not leave enough living room room. Personally, I like having a closed work kitchen with the living room and dining room being the primary entertaining spaces, so I'd rather have a smaller (but efficiently laid out) kitchen and a bigger living/dining room. But that's me.

What I've noticed from old houses is that there were two kinds of butler's pantries. In grand houses, with actual butlers, they were separate rooms that stored all the china for huge dinner parties. But in smaller houses they were often in a pass through room or hallway near the kitchen. Instead of letting space go to waste the architects put the space to use ( and those of us who love old houses admire the ingenuity).

But more often than not, they were an amenity not a necessity.

When space is tight it just seems crazy to have one if it entails a tiny living room that won't fit standard living room furniture ( couch+love seat+ coffee table+ media center).

" Dining,cooking and entertaining are equally important and should at least have three equal spaces. "

Um, not in my home. Cooking is way more important than dining or entertaining. Why? Because I rarely entertain more than a single person at home, and because I rarely eat at my dining table. My kitchen is almost 50% larger than my living room. I love it!

Different strokes........one size never fits all.

Well, as you can see by the above comments, loads of issues here. One I don't think was mentioned is you seem to say there are two openings into the pantry? Just one is all you need. Wall space is the premium in a pantry. Easy access from the kitchen is also important, but not mandatory. As also mentioned above, I would need exact layout measurements to provide meaningful input. Many of the basics have been covered above. Kitchens are all about the "triangle of workflow" (sink to refrigerator to cook top/oven) and every inch is vital to a good layout. Measurements and appreciation of the adjoining spaces are needed. Thanks!

I’m not a pro, but the comments by others make sense. You really need to start over and get another kitchen designer. This is a flawed plan and squeezing out your living room to the size you mentioned isn’t necessary..
Sorry, but you asked for help. You need a new plan.

I’m having a real problem with this work triangle concept. I don’t think a triangle works at all (at least not with ones sink across from their cooking surface). Why is having the sink ACROSS from your stove better functionally? Why would you want to prep and wash veggies etc at your sink and then dribble them across your isle to your range or cooktop. Functionally, it makes more sense to have your stove, then your prep area, and then your sink all lined up on the same counter run.

In any case, regarding this kitchen design, the stove placement alone is enough to go back to the drawing board. Shoved very close to the corner and too close to the pantry doorway/walkway area. What happens when you open the oven door and someone needs to get into the butlers pantry?

agree with others on many issues..

i will admit, i did not read all the 'solutions' but my one question is why is the frig in the BP?? do u really want to go in there all the time to pull food out and then walk in the kitchen to prep/cook? that would get old really fast for me.!

how many people live here? do u cook routinely? do u have guests/family over regularly? IMO, this is not a 'cook's kitchen'.

That is FAR, FAR, from awesome. It is a kludge mess of cabinetry , busy looking as all hell, and equally inefficient.. Start OVER.

And in answer to the question of living space? Yes it will be too small.

Post the entire floor plan, but the first thing you need is a pro KD, not a cabinet seller.

I would not sacrifice that much living space, unless this is to be a keeping room, and not the only living room in the house.

This is such a good forum to go through as I'm getting ready to start working on my kitchen ..... just haven't found the cabinetry I love !

Any recommendations on transitional (modern yet dimensional) cabinet makers in the NYC area - most modern ones I have found so far are just boxes in various finishings ?

Every cabinet seller on earth does "FREE" design. Get an independent pro and pay. Perhaps one who listens just a bit less, and helps a lot MORE. : )

Dimensional but modern? Go to a CUSTOM shop, armed with an idea of what you want. Modern by definition, is more about the finish than the detail/dimension/trim of the cabinet. Yes.......boxes in a sense. Find an inspiration photo

Thanks I did - but the custom ones don'e have much either. I did send inspirations, but ultimately got the same !

Artajul-you might get more responses for this question if you start a new thread of your own . . .

thanks will do !

I am not a kitchen designer, so I will leave comments about placement to those who know a better arrangement. I am commenting on the island and the remaining living space.

Redesign the island so that seating can tuck under counter. If you remove the cabinets on pantry wall, the island can be wider, giving you extra storage needed when giving up the cabinets and allow for more seating.

Bar stools, allow 24” for each. Only when someone is sitting at the bar will a walkway be of concern. Give that area 3’ out from edge of bar counter. Now, add sofa or sectional with back to kitchen. Here is your space with a 120” sectional.

The left corner is useless, the "vent" over the microwave which appears to be a cheap recirculating vent which just shoots smoke and smells back into the kitchen (a real vent exhausts smoke and smells to the outside of the house through the wall or roof), the ridiculously small and low window, the apparent french door oven next to the range (that issue discussed yesterday on this site), too too many doors and too too few drawers, the dumb low cabinet in front of the island, uppers without crown trim.....let me count the ways I don't like this kitchen.
If you are going to spend the big money on the kitchen, why not get ideas from two different certified kitchen designers to make the best use of the space? Or three? They don't own you....you are getting "bids" and ideas from some professionals who are competing for your business.

Angelicatownshend - Are you there?

My guess is Angelica didn't love the answers. Just a guess: )

Oh my. Ok, I’m really glad I asked. Here goes. There is a dining room, the living room is actually more a family room. The space meant for the living room in the house we use as our dining room, and the space used as the dining room we use as a playroom, although I’m considering moving the playroom to my office and moving my desk to my bedroom (Getting tired of toys migrating into the hallway.)

So, it would actually be 12x15.5, but 4’ of which I wouldn’t place furniture in. But yeah I agree, I think it’s too small. The reason and purpose for my “butlers” pantry, which was going to have cabinets and counterspace on one side and shelving on the other, was to place a lot of the small appliances and breakfast stuff. I have a strong desire to hide the coffee grinder and toaster to a hidden space I can hide from unexpected visitors, since they seem to create such a disastrous mess of ground coffee, whole beans and crumbs that I’m constantly dealing with, especially on busy days when I’m gone all day and my family has had run of the house or when I go out of town. i put the fridge where it is because I was concerned my original plan of the middle of the cabinets on the left would cause us to have to shrink the island to preserve the walkway. I totally see the issue with the order of the appliances, but I had wanted the fridge on the window (which is currently lower but had a leak and needs to be replaced, perhaps with a taller window.) yes, I think we’ll need to go back to the drawing board. Two dishwasher, again, is a wishlist item we probably will end up nixing, but, again, I’m out of town a lot and my family needs all the help they can get keeping things in rotation and out of the sink, as do I. I considered just getting portable one on wheels and tucking it away to use only when needed Instead of a built in. I did want mostly drawers, but this was just the placement drawing. Here was how I drew it out to see how it would look next to the living room, ignore the blob of a chair, messed up on placement and couldn’t erase it... the KD is a cabinet salesperson. would an interior designer work for this project since we also have to furnish and arrange two other main spaces? We have 4 in our family, myself, my husband who loves to cook elaborate meals but isn’t tidy about it, also a coffee snob with more coffee gadgets than I can count, my almost 7 year old, my medically fragile but improving 3 year old...we then also usually have home nurses for my son in and out, and live next door to my brother and sister in law and their two young daughters. We also have friends that live in the neighborhood and visit with their girls. My priority is to make a space with amazing storage that makes it easier for me to keep up and makes for better traffic flow through the house, since often as it is now, we have walkway issues with two working in the kitchen or when my son in the kitchen his chair. would put a set of drawer cabinets and a pull out garbage in there somewhere, maybe on the island? can a traditional larger island be put on casters?

Just get a PRO KD, along with an interior designer and contractor! Of course you want to share all these specific and challenging issues with all of them. . But the money you save by not getting a really bad kitchen may buy a few hour a day housekeeper when you are GONE.

Start with that island design is NO. NO NO.

This is a big investment, one for the long term. You need a team talent to address the entire floor. Office, play space dining KITCHEN etc. Get off here and start looking : ) unless you use Houzz and a search in your area. Frankly, I would BEGIN with the interior design aspect, Virtually every good one will have the other talent in their back pocket.

Different people use their houses in different ways. For some people a big kitchen and a small living room might be fine.

But there is such a thing as TOO small.

You just can't have a Martha Stewart dream kitchen next to a Bronx tenement living room.

So if the OP has other space in the house as they said then I think they might need to rethink how they are using all the rooms not just this one. I'm relieved to hear it's a largish house with other living spaces. That changes everything.

Some other rooms can become the living spaces?

It would probably be OK to make the 120 sq foot area next to the kitchen in to a dining room. That can't fit a hutch but it can fit a nice sized dining table, That might be really nice and convenient for serving food. And with a few tweaks the dream kitchen might work out then.

-Get the dream kitchen and butler's pantry ( with a few tweaks)

-The space meant to be a living room that is now the dining room could go back to being the living room. It might even make more sense with the flow of the house if it was originally designed to be a living room.

-The dining room that is now a playroom could stay a playroom if the kids enjoy it. Or maybe it could become a TV room / gaming room/ playroom for the adults and kids to share and hang out together.

-The 120 sq foot space next to the kitchen could become the dining room. That would be very convenient for serving food and hosting parties.

-If the OP does want to turn the dining room back in to a dining room then the 120 sq ft area next to the kitchen could become a sitting area or sun room or something else. It's too small for a couch though IMO.

I'm just throwing out ideas.

It's up to the OP to decide. But if she is willing to use other rooms in the house for living spaces then the dream kitchen with a butler's pantry, two dishwashers and an island just could work out fine after all.

FWIW if budget allows it, an interior designer might be really helpful, not just for the kitchen, but for planning the other rooms as well.

The cabinet sellers kitchen design is not great and it sounds like the function and design of several other rooms might need to be rethought in order to allow a big kitchen.

Looking at your layout the first add I would suggest is a prep sink in the counter you have on the kitchen side of the pantry shelves. 16-18" wide is enough with disposal. I'd delete the uppers on that run for a more open feel for that area.

Thank you for all the input! The last thing I want is buyers remorse. We have a 5 bedroom, 3 bathroom home. I like the idea of a family game room/playroom. Our current playroom is probably even smaller than what the family room would become, a dining room makes sense there, but maybe relocating the playroom there would be a possibility. we spend a lot of time in the kitchen, I usually only sit on the couch for an hour in the evenings, but I do love movie time together there. My only qualm is having the main sitting area out of site from the kitchen, so I wouldn’t be able to work in the kitchen and talk to someone sitting on the couch. I considered opening the wall behind the official dining room and placing glass pocket doors there for the playroom, but with the dining space has a tray ceiling with pillars around it and only two official walls. I’m currently out of town (yet another hospital trip, that makes almost 5 months this year), but when I get back I want to find a designer. How do you make sure find one that is on your wavelength as far as style?

Oh, so the official dining room would not be able to fit my hutch AND buffet, although I haven’t refinished the buffet yet so maybe that wouldn’t be such a loss... here is the current layout and the floor plan, I had posted both on another post. I’m thinking I may have to nix the dream pantry that hides my husband‘s gadgety and breakfast mess and just do a more open version of what we already have, sadly.

Our house is a mirror image of the floor lane with no sliders in the back.

A good designer can do ANY style. That's fact:)

Before you even get to style? You consider function for living . Not to the point of over think- it's almost always a case of double duty solutions, compromises... ! Almost nobody gets a wish list 100% and that is despite having all the resources in the world!

Take your time, get help, and be open to possibilities you may have not even considered:)

Oh my. Ok, I’m really glad I asked. Here goes. There is a dining room, the living room is actually more a family room.

Okay, that does make a difference. I was under the impression this living room from which you propose to "steal space" was the only living space. Hearing this whole thing, I agree with those who say this space would be an ideal dining area. Its connection to the kitchen is ideal, and you'll have living space elsewhere.

The reason and purpose for my “butlers” pantry ... to place a lot of the small appliances and breakfast stuff.

You'll get a space you like better if you force yourself to be specific about what you want:

-This isn't a butler's pantry -- if you use the wrong term, you're going to get bad advice. It's a walk-in pantry ... or maybe a scullery.

- Do you intend to use these small appliances in the WIP, or do you want to store them in the WIP and bring them out to the kitchen to be used?

- Do you want the kids to be able to serve themselves breakfast from this room?

- If I'm reading your intentions correctly, I'd say you need a small sink in this WIP.

I have a strong desire to hide the coffee grinder and toaster

I understand where you're coming from: I very much want a secondary /placed away from the main work area cabinet, where I can keep the coffee pot, the cookie jar, the fruit bowl, etc. It's about keeping the main area clutter-free.

Regardless, a whole WIP to store these items is one choice, but it really means that the mess you want to avoid will be spread across two rooms instead of one. Take time to consider other options:

- You can do a coffee station "behind closed doors" within the footprint of the main kitchen ... your short cabinet run on the left side could hold such a thing nicely.

- You can put appliances on a pop-up or a pull-out ... people do these things most often with stand mixers, but such layouts can work for smaller appliances too ... you can choose how wide you want the shelf to be ... note that the items remain plugged in, so they're ready for instant use:

Two dishwasher, again, is a wishlist item we probably will end up nixing, but, again, I’m out of town a lot and my family needs all the help they can get keeping things in rotation and out of the sink, as do I.

I understand where you're coming from: my husband loves to cook, but he seems completely unaware that no dish fairy lives in our house.

However, I'm not sure you're not looking for a bandaid instead of addressing the problem; specifically, they're making a big mess and leaving it for you. I fear that two dishwashers would just mean you'd come home to a mess of dishes, and you'd end up loading them into the two dishwashers. Could they go with paper plates while you're away? Pay a housekeeper to come in the day before you return home /clean all the dishes so you come home to a clean space?

I considered just getting portable one on wheels and tucking it away to use only when needed Instead of a built in.

Eh, when I was a teenager I had a boyfriend whose mother had one of those ... she had to drag it out, hook it up, and then it took up all the space in her kitchen while it was running.

I did want mostly drawers, but this was just the placement drawing.

Good choice!

my husband who loves to cook elaborate meals but isn’t tidy about it

Yeah, my husband is the same, and I've given up on trying to change him; instead, I focus on the thousand things he does well and accept that I will always do 99% of the cleaning ... but I have no desire for a larger kitchen. He'd just mess up more space.

I'll reiterate what I said already: Larger isn't the same as functional or better.

also a coffee snob with more coffee gadgets than I can count

Okay, so I'm hearing that you're really serious about a coffee spot ... the real question is, where's the best space for it? I'm sure you want to keep coffee-making on the "edge" of the kitchen /out of the way of other cooking ... is the best edge a place in the WIP or on the far right? I don't think the short cabinet run on the left is the best ... that's getting into the heart of your cooking area.

My priority is to make a space with amazing storage that makes it easier for me to keep up and makes for better traffic flow through the house, since often as it is now, we have walkway issues with two working in the kitchen or when my son in the kitchen his chair.

Knowing your priorities is important. The WIP will give you the amazing storage ... as long as you don't plan too many tasks to be done IN that room. Do you want it to be amazing storage, or do you want it to be a place for kids to make bowls of cereal and your husband to make coffee?

How often do two people work together in the kitchen?

Do you mean your son uses a wheelchair, or are you talking about a high chair? If you have special needs, that's going to impact your design significantly.

I hate this angled island.

You just can't have a Martha Stewart dream kitchen next to a Bronx tenement living room.

I agree. It's about balance /proportion ... but if a comfortable-sized living room exists elsewhere in the house, these plans are fine. And I'll say again: This space would be an ideal dining room.

Additional questions and thoughts for the OP:

- Where do you enter the house? You want a convenient set-up for getting groceries into the house. Do you need other storage near this entrance? This may affect whether you need two doors on the pantry ... the two doors do cut into that awesome storage you want, and it plays into the improvement you want in traffic pattern.

- Have you considered some pegboard space in the pantry? I LOVE mine and intend to have a larger pegboard in my new pantry.

- Do you intend to store cleaning items (vacuum, extra paper towels, mops) in the pantry? If so, build in this space.

- You mentioned garbage. I'm sure you need trash in both the main kitchen AND the pantry ... and don't neglect recycling. You might consider a trash chute leading directly to the big outside trash can (either for trash or for recycling).

- Do you need a separate freezer?

- Do you cook out /BBQ on a regular basis? I'm not clean on whether you have a connection to the outside in this kitchen.

Do the hutch, buffet and dining table fit in to the 120 square foot area next to the kitchen in the plans?

I think that area makes more sense as a dining room than living room. And then maybe your kids could sit at the table and do homework while the adults cook and eat in the kitchen. As the island cuts the space in half you might be better off without it in terms of facilitating conversation.

The big question is what do you guys like doing together and how best to facilitate family time, rather than making a home that looks impressive to others.

Maybe make a list of activities you enjoy doing together, and things you'd like to do more of, and then try to work the house plans around that. Let all the family members have a wish list of at least one thing they want in their Dream Kitchen and Dream House.

For example if the adults like playing video games with the kids then maybe a couch for the adults to sit on and a gaming system could be incorporated in to the playroom. What activities do the kids need help from the adults with? What activities currently feel too cramped in the rooms they are now taking place in? What kitchen gadgets and types of cooking do the adults love that they don't have room for? When are the kids running in to other rooms looking for help or attention from the adults? Those activities need spaces where the adults and kids can be together. Where are people arguing that they can't hear the TV or one kid is knocking over another kid's toys? Those are activities that need more room. If the toys are migrating in to the hallway then toy storage needs a designated spot like a storage bench. Or maybe toy storage could be incorporated in to a media center for the gaming system. Do the kids like heating up their own snacks? Then a lower microwave instead of a microwave over the range they can't reach might be better.

How do you USE the house?

What makes you guys HAPPY?

What do you like doing TOGETHER?

Let those concerns guide your house plans.

You might find the Sarah Susanka's remodeling book useful. Not So Big Remodeling: Tailoring Your Home for the Way You Really Live. Or her first book The Not So Big House: A Blueprint for the Way We Really Live

http://www.susanka.com/books/default.asp

Don't be put off by the title - she's not about small houses. But she'll give you good food for thought about how you use your house, and for designing areas in your house that work now but are flexible enough to use differently as your family's needs change. You'll have much more productive discussions with your kitchen designer (and any other professional) after reading them.

A full height vertical drawer could hide small kitchen countertop appliances closer to where they are needed.

This layout is awkward and overwhelming and looks like too much was crammed into a small space. If you have the luxury from starting from scratch you can do better.

Wow karenseb, I love your idea! how would you change the windows and how would you arrange the furniture in the great room?