I call it a "processing charge". The point is that the cost of the damned seeds is higher than what is listed. But I agree with your frustration about this. Tell me the real shipping cost, and tell me the real cost of the seeds.

I don't think there is anything wrong with paying extra for what you want. They have to pack up and ship a few packages of seeds, get a padded envelope, I think it is unreasonable to think that is profitable to ship at even actual postage. Now Johnny's has also raised their seed prices too it seems, but if you want what you want, why not pay more? Not sure why more seed companies don't at least buy $10 or $20 amount and get free shipping.

Baker Creek has raised their prices but now have totally free shipping, I suppose you can figure out if that is worth the cost depending on what you order.

High Mowing Seeds has a $10 for free shipping deal.

Harris Seeds is not bad as prices are cheap, and they had deals.

Burpee.com seems to keep getting more and more of a highly questionable value.

The issue isn't how much it costs altogether, but that they make the seeds look cheap and then inflate the "shipping" cost well over what shipping should actually cost in order to make up the difference. I mean, a padded envelope, stamps, and thirty seconds to address shouldn't cost four or five dollars.

I try to avoid ordering seeds online as I have nurseries that stock good selections. But, of course, if I want something unusual, mail order is the only way to get it. The important caveat here for me is that for tomatoes, seed companies don't ship until February. Well, my tomatoes are in the soil in pots by mid-January to do plantout in mid-February. So that sure doesn't work. So for my tomatoes, if I need new seeds, even pretty pedestrian seeds, I have to get those by mail order like, now.

Johnny's and Territorial make the seeds look cheap? Umm... I have honestly never ordered from Johnny's because of their high prices ($4+ a pack) compared to other companies and the fact that a lot of their stuff is hybrid (no, I don't have anything against that, I just don't want to be overcharged for it while also having to rely on them for the seed year after year). Territorial I have ordered from on occasion as their seed prices are more reasonable.

As for the shipping costs, I don't mind companies inflating their shipping costs if I have a decent sized order but I am not going to pay that cost for just a couple packets. I have often settled on a similar variety of a vegetable/flower/herb with one company to avoid ordering and paying shipping for just a packet or two from a different company. There are always other options available if one is not absolutely set on getting a specific variety.

And adding to Noki's comment, Eden Brothers and Botanical Interests are two companies that often have free shipping deals with no minimum purchase going on throughout the year. All you need to do is subscribe to their email newletters and you'll be notified when they do.

Rodney

Southern Exposure seeds are $2.75/pack, and it cost $3.50 to ship one packet. About the same for SSE. A little hard to justify those shipping charges. Baker Creek is a pretty good deal, with $3-ish packets, and yes, free shipping. But yes, if you're going to mail-order seeds, try to get them all from one place to save on shipping.

Looking around Johnny's is not the best value, but they seem to be marketing much more for the small farmer who sells at markets, so they may deem the small orders to be unprofitable, so they do not make small orders cheap. Burpee online is absurdly priced, since almost all of their offers can be had at the store racks for less than half, or found elsewhere easily.

It all depends on what you want, what you consider worth spending money on. You probably can predict what you will be able to find at stores for $2 or less. If you make reasonable decisions, I don't see anything wrong with ordering seeds online.

Agree with Rodney. If all you need are a couple of packets why order from the most expensive seed companies to begin with? Many less expensive seed companies than the 2 you mention so why do you love Johnny’s and Territorial?

Shipping costs have gone up on everything so another way to cut costs is with less diversity. Why does anyone need 2 plants of 15 different tomato variety packs or 5 different lettuce or bean packs, etc.? Lastly, with a couple of exceptions, you can always order several packets of the varieties you want and then properly store the remainder for years.

Dave

My fav cantaloupe is Ambrosia from Burpee but starting several years it's never found on any of their seeds stands around here. They do offer Hale's Best, and 3-4 other varieties but never Ambrosia seed. I either have to order the seeds from them or find a nursery that sells the seedlings in Spring. Ordering just 1 packet of seed ($5.39/30 seeds) via mail ($3 shipping ) is nutz.

seed stand selections are usually decided by the store not the seed company.

Well no matter where I go in the Spring (nurseries, home improvements, feed & seed stores) every very large Burpee stand lacks Ambrosia, and these stands are very large with a wide variety of seeds. When these stores order a boxed Burpee Stand for display they order the prepackaged stand, doubtful they select the specific seed varieties that come with it.

I totally agree. I will not pay $8+ shipping for a few packets of seeds and I don't even waste my time looking at websites that charge that much. The seed companies with reasonable shipping charges get my business every time.

This year Baker Creek has won my business because they have free shipping and they also have a good selection of veggies and flowers, so it has been an almost one-stop shop for me this season.

High Mowing also has free shipping if you spend $10 which I find very reasonable.

Linda

Last spring, I 'helped' remove packaging from a Burpee stand. (The stand was on the floor enclosed in cardboard sections.)

It was already completely stocked with seeds.

Bakers Creek is my preferred, but sometimes I need a few hybrids, like a Totem F1 for an indoor grow.

10 seeds @ Pinetree $1.95 with $3.95 ship total $5.90, thats $0.59 cents a seed. I usually don't mind with the heirlooms because I can save seeds, but the Hybrids are a one shot deal.

The shipping isn't bad when ordering a bunch of packets, but ordering one is a killer.

I usually end up ordering from about 3-4 places to get everything I'm looking for.

I just order a bunch of seeds from GrowOrganic.com and they have free shipping if you order 5 packs of seeds or more.

Funny to read this today as I just got my Johnnys catalog. For me it’s just a small part of getting exactly the seeds I want. But I try to order enough so that the shipping fee doesn’t make me wince.

FEDCO seeds - you may get free shipping and the prices are good. The company also is very careful about offering only non GMO and as many organic varieties as they can.

J. L. Hudson - I ordered from them last year and I was very happy with the seeds I planted. 1-40 packets of seed is $3.50 shipping.

"The company also is very careful about offering only non GMO"

GMO'd seeds are not available to the general public/home gardener so NO seed company offers them. These are the purview of larger agribusiness only.

I realize that, but - I still think the attention they give to which companies are involved in any commercial sale of GMOs is something I appreciate as well. And many of these GMO large agribusiness companies were buying up small seed companies that provide seed to home gardeners, and that is something I also want to avoid.

Re GMO seeds, if you were to buy them from a large ag seed company, you'd be required to sign a contractual statement legally assuring the producer that their technology would be protected. Your local garden shop, online supplier and or big box store don't want to deal in such things.

And they are significantly more expensive to purchase than "regular" seeds!

I have a very hard time understanding the abhorence many have towards GMO'd (or more accurately, genetically engineered) crops. It is not like anyone anywhere has established scientifically that they are somehow "bad" to consume or that one is likely to grow a third eye or contract some untreatable disease by eating them.

I don't understand why just typing the word GMO always starts what I consider an unnecessary discussion that is confrontational. And Gardengal, I don't understand why you have no understanding of the opposite side of the argument, if you've spent any time listening to those who have that opinion. And I just don't have the time or inclination to get involved in yet another discussion of the subject. I've stated my views and my reasons many times on GW.

FEDCO and J.L. Hudson - I've found them to be very good suppliers of seeds with low to no shipping costs for seeds.

" I don't understand why you have no understanding of the opposite side of the argument"

It is necessary to my business to understand both sides of the argument.......and quite thoroughly!! But I have yet to see any scientific evidence that supports the contentions of the opposition. And because of this glaring lack of scientific evidence, it always boils down to the GMO naysayers getting heated.....it's hard to keep up a rational dialog when you have nothing but emotions to support it :-)

If you find the subject too confrontational, just don't bring it up!! It is hardly relevent to home gardeners anyway!

Wow - Gardengal - I'm pretty sure I've already had this discussion with you personally in the past. Spent the time to explain my reasons for my position on GMO, with reasons that were not emotional reasons. And here you are again, with the flimsiest of excuses to start an argument. Confrontational is when your statement of your opinion is basically saying that anyone who has a different opinion than yours, is pretty darn stupid. Because that is basically what you just said in so many words.

And simply stating that the reason I buy seeds from one company is because they offer non GMO seeds, is not an invitation to start a confrontational discussion.

Sometimes, you've been very helpful in the past, and provide information and opinions that I've appreciated, but there are other times, when I have to wonder if you are just looking for an argument.

Back to original programming....

I grumble about shipping costs and agree they can get high. But I look at it the same way as another poster -- I want what I want, and for that I will pay. Sometimes a preferred vendor doesn't have one or two items I want, so I have to order elsewhere and suck up the shipping cost {shrug}.

That being said, I do use leftover seed - I know some say that's a no-no, but really? Seed isn't "good" if it's a year old? If I have a packet of 25 or 50 seeds and only used a handful, why not use them again this year and the next year? I'd say probably after 3 years I order fresh seed.

But, the gardener in me can't resist trying new things, so of course there's something to order every year!

BTW: Johnny's is running a $5 off $25, got the coupon via email, so if you're not on their email list, sign up to get offers.

Non-GMO is basically just a marketing term. Any company that caters to home gardeners or small scale farmers can say they sell non-GMO seed because, well, they do. If you buy from a company and they don't ask you to sign a contract then you have bought non-GMO seeds. The term "non-GMO" works because it is a hot button issue. Seed companies know this which is why they advertise as such. Not saying all who buy non-GMO seeds are doing so simply because they believe some anti-GMO hype, but plenty do.

And for that matter, the term "heirloom" is another that gets thrown around and advertised a lot. Heirloom has slightly different definitions depending on what source you look at. Generally it means that the variety has been around for decades and/or that it has been passed down through generations in a family. Heirlooms will also breed true from seed, provided that cross pollination is prevented.

Now when a gardener says they want to only grow heirlooms what do they really mean? People tend to think that heirlooms taste better but that isn't always the case. It seems like most casual gardeners who say they want an "heirloom" tomato mean that they want a beefsteak type tomato that may be slightly irregular in shape. And while there are plenty of heirloom tomatoes that do fit that description there are so many more that don't. However, most who want to grow heirlooms just want something that is non-hybrid and that they can save seeds from. But they limit themselves in only looking at heirlooms because they do not get to see all the wonderful open pollinated varieties that are not yet considered heirlooms.

If you were to walk into a garden center or greenhouse and ask a random person about open pollinated seeds/plants you are likely to get a dumbfounded look in return. Again, seed companies know this. Now a lot of companies do say whether their seeds are open pollinated but it does not get nearly the amount of hype as the word heirloom. A shame, really.

Anyway, seems I have gone on a bit of a rant. Sorry.

Rodney

prairiemoon, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I was not trying to start an argument!! You were the one that brought up the non-GMO seeds with respect to seed companies.......I simply pointed out that one has nothing to do with the other. You took it from there as the remark being confrontational, I'm not at all sure why.

The fact is that many readers who may be very new to gardening can visit these forums and will read about seed companies and GMO seeds and get all squirrely on the topic because they are not better informed and the publicity behind any GMO'd crops or seeds is uniformily (and unjustifiably) negative!! So just throwing out a quick statement about seeds for home gardeners and that they are not GMO'd does not present a very helpful or knowledgeable picture for any newby.

And I honestly have to wonder why the topic of GMO's or genetically enegineered anything comes up in forums devoted to home gardening. As I have attempted to point out here and on other threads, one has nothing to do wth the other.

Gardengal, if you want to discuss GMO, do a search for GMO on Gardenweb and I'm sure you can quickly find many threads on the subject and discuss it to your heart's content. This thread is about high shipping costs on seed purchases and it's not fair to the OP or the others posting here to hijack the thread.

As a matter of fact, look at all the posts here now on the subject. 1/3 of the posts are on GMO. Maybe you could delete all of them and copy paste them to your own thread, so people don't have to weed through them all to get back to the topic.

MxK3 - you bring up a good point about using leftover seeds. I save
not only the seed packets I purchase but I collect my own seed too. I
store all my seed in the refrigerator. Some seed last a long time in the
refrigerator.

BTW, I just looked it up and Fedco seeds has free shipping on orders over $30.

Now that I've received a truckload of seed catalogs, as I do every year, and as nice as one or two are to thumb through, if you want to cut down the insane price of seeds and shipping, step #1 would be to stop sending a kazillion catalogs out. In the modern era, when I can sit down at my computer and thumb through a huge amount of marketing content from a seed company, truckloads of paper are an expense I don't need. And yes, when I buy seeds from them, I'm paying for it. Now, seed companies must have decided that it is a successful marketing strategy, but I wish it weren't.

When I place a mail order for seeds, I almost never look at the catalogs. My first stop is their website.

I find that true of all catalogs. As often as I can remember to do it, I call the company and ask them not to send me a catalog. I actually do get fewer catalogs since I've started doing that, but every time you make a purchase from a company, they put you back on the list to send one. [g]

I actually prefer looking at print catalogs but I do place my orders online. It is just easier for me to compare varieties in a catalog as all varieties of a veggie are usually on one page. On most websites I would need multiple tabs open and have to go back and forth between them to compare (it's been my experince that it is a rare few that have all the info available on one webpage). Plus, I tend to keep the catalogs of my favorite companies for future reference.

Rodney

"BTW, I just looked it up and Fedco seeds has free shipping on orders over $30. "

Prairie Moon, Does that include orders of 20 pounds of seed

Hi Wayne, I didn't notice whether there was a weight limitation. Here is their website link....see if you can find what their policy is. And they have a phone # you can call or an email you can send to ask.

Fedco Seeds

But really, about overabundance of print catalogs, maybe some visionary seed company will drop the price of their seeds and "shipping", and offer their thick, hefty, full color, glossy catalogs for a price. The latter would just be a printout of the web pages.

I finally got the Stokes catalog. This, too, has changed -- it now has a fraction of listings it used to. I did note that one can request a commercial growers catalog that has everything listed by calling and requesting one. I already placed my orders online, but I think I will request the big catalog for next year. For me, it way easier (and much more enjoyable) to thumb through a catalog to make choices opposed to opening webpages. I also don't like the webpage redesign - I think it's worse than before; I found it rather cumbersome.

I called FEDCO to ask a question and while I was there, I asked if the webpage has the exact same seed data base as the catalog and they said it does. I do enjoy catalogs as I still enjoy books and magazines. I don't have a digital reader. And if there is one company whose catalog is a great resource of information, then I like to have it, but I just get too many catalogs that I haven't requested and don't plan on looking at or ordering from, so it just seems like a big waste. It would also make a difference to me, if the catalog is printed on recycled paper.

Anyone notice that even just the seed prices are higher on websites? I look at the prices for some seeds on burpee's website, and I get the same exact burpee seeds at home depot for half the price. I understand paying a premium for seeds that you cant buy at a store, but these same high prices for seeds you can get anywhere? I dont understand it

buffalo - I believe the seed count on the off the rack Burpee packets are about 1/2 as many as their website. But then most people don't need 50 tomato or pepper seeds of the same variety.

I haven't bought anything from Burpee in over a decade. I don't think I even have any old Burpee seed left in my seed collection.

*Everything* seems more expensive...

I'm leery of Burpee anymore, have gotten poor quality seeds before when I ordered from them, but off-the-rack misc stuff has done ok.

The quantities on the seed racks are always way smaller as LoneJack has stated.

Also I have found that some seed companies hire other companies to do their website-consequently their prices are higher than what you would pay through their catalog or a phone order.

Ah, I have gradually changed my seed aquisition over the last few years so that I never buy any seed from 'established' seed houses such as T&M and even smaller, less corporate companies such as Chiltern Seeds. I will definitely scour the universe for something I badly need (my endless...and largely fruitless search for peucedanum/thyselium for example)...and will pay £££...although only in the direst of circumstances. However, a combination of seed collecting (I am crazed about this), membership of plant societies (and access to almost free seed lists) and a willingness to risk a few quid on the many, many internet sources. True, some of which are parlous but many others are brilliant (and a look at both the inventory and information makes it really easy to get a handle on some serious gardeners) This year, I ordered a slew of wild flowers from an ex-miner in Co Durham, including a few real surprises. None of these sources charge the ridiculous carriage costs of commercial companies with large payrolls and overheads, while I have access to an inventory which is vastly more expansive than well-known seed houses.