Well, DD was the star in her science class because she managed to grow the most impressive bacteria --- taken from outside bottom of her purse.

Much better than toilets, streets, trash cans, etc.

DH is a microbiologist and he worries more about mold and lungs than he does about bacteria. Sometimes I read responses on here that amount to "it's just a bit of mold, clean it off with bleach" and I sincerely want to lecture...

Don't obsess, but be cautious with mold...unwanted psa for sure ;)

IMO, dirt and germs are two different things. We don't wear shoes in the house because we don't like the dirt and grit that they bring in. Germs could be on the bottom of my shoes, but they could also be on my groceries (how many hands have touched those things?). I don't worry that much about germs, but I am grossed out by some things if I dwell on them (like how many hands have touched my groceries).

Fun2 I was just coming back to amend my post and say that planes totally creep me out! They are filthy - talk about a flying petri dish - blech. That is the one and only place I use sanitary wipes on anything I might touch and I touch as little as possible. So many people I know regularly get sick after flying - really sick - so I am cautious there.

I'm one of those who gets sick every time after flying more than two hours. I have friends and relatives on the west coast and in Great Britain and Europe, and this has really curtailed my desire/ability to visit them. Oh, and time and money . . .

An impressive array of bacteria is not a sign of disease or ill health, and is often a sign of good health. It's an environment with one bad player bacteria that is the problem. A large array of bacteria protects against the likelihood that a bad bacteria will thrive and dominate. We only know the rudiments of who are the good players and their roles and which are the troublemakers. A tsp. of soil might contain 6 million DIFFERENT organisms. And none of them might be bad for you. I have to educate myself on the bad players and where they live. Histoplasmosis is a prime example. It's a fungus. The chance of you randomly bringing it in is extremely slim. But if you're cleaning a bird cage or chicken coup regularly or you run into a pigeon or bat roost in your attic, then you should have it on your mind and wear an appropriately designed face mask! I run into risks for it along with the hantavirus, in barns and other outdoor structures, which I frequent from time to time. I also wear a mask when I go into my crawl space and rake leaves on a dry dusty day. But the house, full of "germs" and we are none the sicker. We do routinely clean knobs, handles, faucets and counters with disinfectant though and I'm a stickler for thoroughly washing fruits and vegetables that come from outside my own garden. Even to the point of researching how best to get the bad stuff off, including petrochemicals. (Good luck on most of that). I am lax on my smart phone, computer keyboard and desk. That I should probably not be.

Edited to add that my immune system is so crap at battling colds and flu and getting them to leave that I am pondering how to add more fermented foods into my diet. I have no idea if that would make a difference. I've tried just about everything else imaginable. And I pick up these bugs from the people in my life, not the dirt. Sick people coming in to work, at the stores and restaurants, in travel centers, and sick kids in school, that's what scares me the most!

Pennydesign, thanks for the mold reminder.

Ipinkmountain, I heard Dunn's interview on Fresh Air. Fascinating! I got totally immersed in it even though on the surface (no pun intended) the topic didn't particularly appeal to me.

I'm not a germaphobe, but if I were, my pets and my kids would be the first things to go. I'll jinx myself, too, and say I have a strong immune system.

But when I'm at a restaurant, I have to try not to think about what's going on back in the kitchen. I worked in restaurants during college, and things are not pretty. I'm glad to see, though, that most restaurants around me have separate staff who clear tables who are not serving food. If my server clears the table next to me, and then goes back to the kitchen and returns with my food, I'm pretty sure he/she didn't stop to wash their hands in between.

After properly blessing it and taking a knee in thanks for its service, I set my purse on my counter, kitchen table, basically any flat surface. I never even considered it a health hazard until I read about it on this board. I put my feet up, with or without shoes, on my coffee table, where I sometimes eat dinner. I have my house cleaned twice a month and really try to keep things clean, wiped down, and tidy.

The one area where I'm more fastidious is around food. I wash my hands after using the bathroom, every freaking time. I wash before preparing food and before eating. I've noticed a difference, but you don't want me to go into detail. :)

I was also quite surprised by those who are horrified when a purse is set down on their counters or tables. I rarely if ever set my purse on the floor, so I don't know how it's transferring anything bad onto the table or counter. I also don't eat directly off the table or counter, or prepare food on them without a cutting board.

I don't carry a purse, but I'm guessing the germs on the bottom of a purse are picked up in places like shopping carts. If some dirty diaper has been sitting in that shopping cart and you set your purse on top of it, I guess you get those germs. Of course you just fling it on the seat of your car, so they're there too.

I haven’t had as much as a cold in many years (knocking on wood) and I do believe that it’s because I don’t think much about germs. I work in a variety of medical clinics and am surrounded by illness all the time. The only precaution I take is to wash my hands in sanitizing soap before I leave.

I have a place in the hallway that I keep my bag. I don’t like to put it on the floor but not because of germs. And even though I get a bit squeemish when I do it, I will still sit my bag in the seat of the grocery cart.

The one quirky thing I do not do because of germs is to share my tube of toothpaste with anyone including my DH.

Speaking of DH, he’s been on low dose Chemo for 7 years now, he too works in a hospital setting and is also never sick. 1 cold in 7 years when you have no immune system is pretty good I think.

ETA: I do wipe his areas down more often, we prep food on cutting boards and DH does use a lot of sanitizer, he has to.

I don't carry a purse, but I'm guessing the germs on the bottom of a purse are picked up in places like shopping carts.

I carry a small crossbody purse which I never put in a grocery cart. If there is no hook in a bathroom stall I just keep it on.

I feel pretty much the same as you do Jo. I don’t obsess about it, never use hand sanitizer, don’t use antibacterial cleaners, etc. The only thing I do is good hand washing - after restroom and before touching food. I also don’t touch the bathroom door after handwashing. I’m also rarely sick and believe basic day to day exposure to germs is good for your immunity.

Bunny you crack me up...I can't even...

Agree about planes...I wipe down everything...I refuse to get sick on vacation.

I'm only going to add that in the classic biology lesson on how to use aseptic techniques and grow bacteria, inevitably it is the lab tables that have the massive scary looking colonies, other than what was once the real scary one, the pay phone in the hall! And sometimes the drinking fountain was not so great either. The bathroom sinks and toilets that were disinfected regularly had almost nothing . . . the door handles were another story! And yet how many people got sick from using the pay phone or putting their elbows on the lab tables . . . I would say very few. A lot of bacteria does not mean ones that will make you sick. But that coughing person sitting next to you on the plane, oy vey! I got pretty once sick after a bus ride from Orlando to Gainesville for that very reason.

Good old fashioned hand washing can do so much to prevent illness, and in the absence of hot soapy water, the use of alcohol-based hand rubs can be used.

I worked in dentistry, where hand hygiene was essential and I rarely got sick. For the last 10 years of my career I worked teaching in schools. Despite being almost paperless and having an abundance of hand sanitizers all over the classroom, my years in a public high school were filled with more colds than previously. Kids came to school sick all the time.

In our home our kids/pets were in and out of the house.. We never fussed much about shoes or what was tracked in, but did teach hand hygiene. Our kids were (still are, thankfully) very healthy, rarely sick and devoid of allergies and asthma. I like to think it was my long-term breastfeeding, followed by a family diet full of fruits, vegetables, whole grains and lack of junk food that yielded such results. However, I think genetics played a larger role.

ETA: I Pinkmountain, you are so right. The biology students would swab my lab tables as part of their data collection. Discusting!

Jo, my answer is pretty much exactly like yours! I’ve worked in medicine most of my adult life, but I have a very relaxed view of most germ situations. BUT, that said, I do have a longtime specific germ phobia: I absolutely can NOT put my flatware down on a bare restaurant table! A tablecloth is ok, but I’ve seen those buckets of yukk water and the rags used to wash off tables between customers, if even then! If a bare table is laid out before I’m seated, I (very nicely) ask for a second napkin and my flatware ends up on the floor, so I get new ones. I know, it probably sounds obsessive, but that’s me. To totally gross me out, my DH and/or DD will occasionally get my attention in a restaurant, rub their forks on the bare table and then put them in their mouths . . . UGH!!! And, yes, I’m very aware (being married to a doctor for the past 25+ years) that your mouth and stomach are very effective in killing most germs, but I still can’t get over it (LOL)!

Actually the mouth is a means of both direct and indirect disease transmission.

Lynn, I do the same thing with my utensils. And, if a piece of food falls off my plate onto the table, I won't eat it. When leaving I open the restroom door with a towel. I have a work friend who does the same thing. After seeing her use her paper towel to also shut the water off I realized that I could possibly be contaminating myself if someone didn't use soap while washing their hands and shutting off the water! We actually have a few laughs about this.

A few weeks ago, while on vacation, I had a 24 hour bug. Although much can't be avoided there are some things that can't. When I came home I was tested and came back fine.

I also think though that if these germs are so bad, then why aren't we all in the hospital every other week?

I think a lot is just the yuck factor.

I do what I do, just to avoid getting a cold/cough etc. I think I do see a difference in the past few years that I have been vigilant. DH says, "Don't tell me you are turning into THAT person"

Yes, yes I am.

I also don't like my silverware sitting on the table in restaurants. And I really hate it when the waiter takes the used fork from my salad plate and sets it on the table for me to reuse for my main course. Yuk! I ask for a new fork.

I teach 6 year old germ factories so am surrounded daily. A hospital employee once told me to never put your fingers in your mouth, eyes or nose without washing them first. I could be wrong, but I think this advice has saved me - esp. not rubbing my eyes. Even tho I had always washed my hands before eating and, as an adult, don't usually pick my nose, I often rubbed my eyes without thinking about it or realizing it was a pathway for germs.

I also heard a story on the radio about a study that found the healthiest kids (IIRC, these were kids with the fewest allergies and diseases) were the youngest in a big family of boys. The idea was that they were exposed to loads of germs and therefore had better immune systems.

Daisy, my doctor DH says so right about keeping your hands away from your eyes and nose. Not so much your mouth (see my post above).

Keep your hands away from your mouth too. The mouth (via mucous membranes and inhalation) is a direct pathway for microbes to enter the body. I hate to see misinformation here. Lynn as an X-ray tech you must have had training in disease transmission. I know most X-ray techs do not wear gloves, but I have witnessed appropriate hand washing (fortunately the only X-rays ai have had are mammiograms,)

The CDC has current guidelines for preventing disease transmission,

Ugh - I also hate bare restaurant tables. Whatever happened to tablecloths and placemats anyway?

And also hate to have my flatware touch anything other than a clean napkin or my plate.

Jeez, I have never given a thought about silverware on bare tables.

Ok, so I guess I think about germs when I'm out. I also won't put my silverware on a bare table. Maybe the germs aren't that bad, but it's easy to avoid.

But I don't wipe off a grocery cart handle.

I know many of us here have dogs and/or cats that we adore and dote on. I have two cats and am kissing them all the time, mostly the tops of their heads, but sometimes on their bellies when they are relaxed and in good moods. Their fur smells soooo good, better than the finest cashmere sweater. Sometimes Bessie reaches out and taps me gently on the face with her paw. My cats walk on the floor, they use their litter box, they lick their nether regions. Is that better or worse than a purse on the counter? I still wash my hands before I cook or eat, but I'd do that even if I hadn't been touching my cats.

Bonnie at one science facility where I worked the lab supervisor had photos of those petri dishes as the illustration for signs outside of the labs that said, "No food or drink in the lab! This is why!" Folks were working in there all the time so they had little refreshment carts out in the hall so folks could take breaks.

Dedtired: I was curious what you mean by this? I know nothing about peanut allergies, I just assumed you are born with it. "I think peanut allergies are a perfect of example of how being exposed to things when you are young keeps you from being sensitive to them in the future"

IPink, shocking, isn’t it? We had those signs at the dental school too, along with a full-time infection control staff of enforcers!

I'm in the Bunny and Jojoco camp, right down to huggin' the puppies (10 and 13 year old puppies). I also raise butterflies and wash my hands a lot to prevent transferring diseases among them as well as always after using the bathroom and around food. Other than that, I don't usually worry about it. I even get myself injected with more -- get a flu shot every year and any other recommended vaccines. Sought out the shingles vaccine as soon as I was eligible for the new one. I want my immune system to work for me, so I let it do what it was designed to do.

always1stepbehind, I remember reading an article about how some parents are encouraged to introduce peanut-containing foods at a very early age to avoid peanut allergies. In particular, one woman fed her toddler peanut cheese doodles (an Israeli snack food, I think). One of my friends had a child with a severe peanut allergy and over time he was desensitized, under a doctor's care, with small amounts of peanuts in his diet. Once it worked, he had to continue to consume peanuts in his diet on a regular basis.

I was just telling someone today about Bamba which is the Israeli snack food (peanut cheetos). There was an article that Walmart is going to carry them. It's kind of like how we give our babies cheerios one and all- Israelis have been giving their babes Bamba and there is none of our common peanut allergy there.Bamba coming to Walmart I have seen it at some Targets, and some supermarkets (shoprite) .But I digress....

I mostly am quite casual with the germiness but--- in a restaurant if food falls off my plate onto the table I will not eat it. I do keep my bag anyplace (floor included but I am starting do that less. it is kind of gross). I too wear slippers in the driveway- I love slippers but only because they are so warm and comfy. We have a dog and kiss him as well.

I am very rarely sick.

I am with this crowd that doesn’t like to put down my purse just anywhere. I usually carry a small crossbody, so I will hand it in the arm of the chair, put it in a vacant seat, or just keep it in my lap.

I feel the same about putting eating utensils on a bare tabletop. Can’t stand it. I will use a spare napkin to put the utensils on it. If there is a pristine white tablecloth I will consider it, especially if the place setting is already there.

Washing hands is a routine part of the day. I keep hand sanitizer in the car for those times I can’t get to a sink right away, like right after I pump gas. We do wear our regular shoes in the house but if our shoes are wet, they come off on the rug at the door from the garage. I never wear my slippers outside. We keep a rack of ‘outside shoes’ in the garage, and I will change into a pair before going to the mailbox or whatever (we have a long driveway). And DH and I keep a pair of rubber garden booties on the back porch for quick trips outside to fill up the bird feeders or a quick trip to the garden.

I am another who is rarely sick.

Have you all heard of these purse table hooks? The ONE good purse I own is an LV so I got it for that but it's rather useful to keep in your purse. They're very cheap on Amazon..

Count me among those who really miss paper placemats in restaurants. I'll use a napkin as one as I hate my silverware to touch the table.

Also...my number one "yuck" in a restaurant is the menus. Especially the plastic coated ones that NEVER get wiped down.

I don't get why these places don't have a once-a-month top to bottom clean..

And no...I don't dwell on what goes on in the kitchen :) Ignorance is bliss.

Germs and shoes... the two households I've known who were religious in asking for shoe removal have done so out of concern for the flooring in their homes, not for reasons of germ control.

And while I prefer people remove shoes, I don't ask, just provide the bench and a shoe spot, and have mine own off - if they wish, fine (although I think I did note that if anyone came in with stiletto high heels on my broad plank pine, I might make some sort of suggestion - but I don't know anyone who wears that sort of thing these days! At least, not in my crowd.)

My handbag never goes on the floor or on a counter/table. I hang it off my knee when I am eating out (if I bring it into the restaurant or home I am eating at - I'll often leave it hidden in the car). At home it sits on a chair. Probably not perfect, but it doesn't bother me.

I usually don't over-worry about germs. They do say a lot of allergies are based on over-assiduous germ avoidance. But yes, there are places to play it seriously safe.

Most hand sanitizers don't really work.

I guess the thing I despise the most is "double dipping". It was really hard for me to eat with my father in his last years, and I tried my best not to show it, but he'd forgotten some basics along with his developing dementia. He'd eat from the serving utensil, and put it back on the platter, right in the middle of the food. Or the sauce. Or whatever. I had to learn to pick everything I'd want the first go-round, if I had that opportunity, and not plan on any seconds. Or, sauce.

Bunny, I too am a serial cat kisser and might have even given a tiny little lick or two to the top of an especially sweet and delicious baby kitty head. Unless that's just totally freaky, in which case, "just kidding."

I'm with those who never put silverware on a bare restaurant table. I also never put anything on my bare kitchen counter that is food or that will be put into food like a mixing spoon, etc. Everything like that goes on a cutting board. Bottom of a plate, bowl, etc. okay on the counter. This isn't about germs really, more about the idea that my troublemaker cat has walked on my counter with the same feet that walk in the litter box.

Ida, not freaky, says she who baptized her kittens.

Thinking I am somewhat in the middle. I wear shoes inside and out, just do not eat anything from the dropped floor. Dogs are going in and out anyway, so it would be a bit risky even if I kept shoes out of the house. Although as a kid I never had any problems, 3 second rule and all. Do not put anything on the floor in a public restroom. Like others here I do not like silverware directly on a table at the restaurant, will ask for napkins or a small plate. My purse is not put down on the same counter I prepare food, not really due to germs, it would be in the way. Habit from my early days is it hangs from the back of the kitchen chair/barstool until put away. Grocery bags, yes they land on the kitchen counter but the counter is cleaned before food prep. House is fairly clean. Not fixated on cleanliness but we entertain fairly often, helps keep the house cleaner for sure. Probably my biggest effort in germ control is hand washing, very diligent about washing hands often.

I'm definitely not a germaphobe. Even with my current bout of pneumonia, and my immune system issues, I don't fret. I do take caution when it involves putting anything near my face-hands, phone, and especially food. I use cutting boards, and avoid cross contamination when preparing meals. I ALWAYS wash my hands after using the restroom and I use hand sanitizer after I've been to the store or handled money. Most germs don't live long once exposed to hard surfaces, but I've noticed I often will rub my nose or use my phone after being in a public place and I don't want to chance it.

Other than that-we have dogs and cats that live in our house. A grandchild who's in day care and his daddy is an early education teacher-both huge vectors! We practice good hygiene but don't go over board. I don't use antibacterial soaps or cleaners. Food prep is the biggest issue-I once got salmonella 35 years ago and was very, very sick from that. Also caught the noro-virus about 15 years ago-those are NOT fun diseases so that is why I am extremely cautious about food borne contaminates and ensuring that my hands don't go near my face.

Life is too short and making up rules gets over whelming is my motto I guess. I lean toward the original post, and also am seldom ill. When a young mom, as we do, I watched others and compared. My kids were crazy healthy. No ear infections, my son threw up for the first time when he was 10--he had no idea what was happening. Unfortunately we were not at home. No day care saved us a lot of health care costs. We have not eaten out enough for me to have germ-a-fobe rules. No one has ever been ill from my cooking. As well as the TIME, it takes MONEY to go battle with every perceived contaminate. It is true the rich are healthier, they eat better and I imagine they have money for the non stop germ battles. So it seems there is something to be said for fighting grime. Truth is we all live as we can. Many could not--fight the fight. Other's just don't have the _________ to bother. Differences make the world go round!!

I would hazard a guess that the rich can afford to go to the doctor early on, and can afford to stay home when they are sick so are not exposed to all the germs in a workplace where sick days are frowned upon, rather than having particularly germy homes. My husband worked briefly in a factory that hired a lot of marginal people (just out of prison and just out of drug rehab) and expected them to work 12 hour days and come in sick, and he was never so sick in his life. Of course teachers will tell you all about the hazards of their profession for that same reason. Unless you have something vectoring disease in your home (like a mold problem, wonky vents, or sick kids) you're unlikely to run into bad germs at home. That's why they send people home from the hospital as soon as possible. You might make yourself sick from contaminated food if you don't watch it. But even there you have way more leeway than public health officials let on. But they err on the side of caution.

The greatest hazard I would worry about nowdays are bird flu, rocky mt spotted fever, lyme disease. We are narrowing down the diversity in the environment so much and creating a heaven for human pests and parasites. I have friends who have gotten all of these diseases. (Not all together, different friends, different diseases). Not being exposed to some of the common dirt and outdoor organisms and agricultural ones like we evolved with has definitely led to weakened immune systems. That was one of the main messages of Robert Dunn's book "Never Home Alone" and that's why I found it so fascinating. As a biologist, I know that the micro biome has immense effects on plant health, so it stands to reason the same would be true of humans. We found that out about our gut bacteria, but there is so much more to learn. If I ever get my PhD., it would be to study soil microbiology. It's very difficult however, to study things we will never see. It's a lot of biochemistry. I'm a little rusty on that. Also now we are studying genetic markers of a lot of things.

Not sure if I would qualify as a complete germaphobe since I'm ok with shoes in the house.

Now you have me thinking about menus and utensils on restaurant tables—which leads me to ketchup bottles.

I know someone who puts her handbag anywhere: public restroom floor, restroom sink, airplane and airport floor, restaurant floor... Apparently I'm scarred for life, so keep your handbag off my kitchen table. I won't say anything, but I'll move it to the entry bench. And I'll wait until you leave before I clorox the space.

OK. Maybe I am a germaphobe ;)

Buffet restaurants and salad bars, probably the only things I avoid.

Purses on floors reminded me: I was in a casual, Italian restaurant with friends. The chairs backs were the rounded type that won’t hold the strap of a purse so my friend put her purse on the floor, I kept mine on my lap, and the other friend put hers on the extra chair. After we eat, my friend bends down to get her purse.

She immediately sits up and says “OMG.”

We say “what?“

“Don’t look under the table.”

Of course, now I have to look under the table. There is a dead mouse under the table, I pop back up, like she did, and say to our other friend “Really, don’t look under the table.”

Our friend is both squeamish and trusting, so she grabs her purse and walks out without looking under the table. I’m not sure if I’m impressed by her resolve or disappointed she wasn’t curious.

There was a very young busboy near our table (family run place so he could be an under working age family member) so I motion for him to come over. I whisper, to be discrete, “there is a dead mouse under our table.“ He shouts “are you kidding me?!“ as he bends to look under the table.

Way to go, kid, draw everyone’s attention to the situation. We grabbed our stuff and left so I don’t know what he did about it. We had already paid our bill and probably could have asked for a discount but we just wanted to get out of there. And never return.

Was poor little dead Mickey there when we sat down? Did he run up and die as we were sitting there? Either way ewwwww.

Bottomline is I never put my purse on the floor, I don’t want a mouse to run up and die in it.

hh, I'm with the kid. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

I was in an outdoor cafe in London and watched a woman place her LV bag on the ground, practically under her chair. About 30 minutes later she's screaming that her purse is stolen. And it was. Vanished. Just like that, right under our noses.

^^Years ago, one of those news-entertainment shows had a feature about people having bags stolen. They did a demo of bags under chairs at an airport cafe and people coming along and stealing them from behind. It was incredible.

I guess I spoke too soon about our track records for getting sick. The day after I wrote my earlier post, DH started coming down with a cold. Gah!!!!