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eric_coleman10

floor tile lippage

eric coleman
February 21, 2019
Installer wants to get paid not fix say it’s acceptable

Comments (28)

  • PRO
    Dragonfly Tile & Stone Works, Inc.

    What is the size of the tile? What is the size of the grout joint? What is the pattern lay-out (take a picture from further back). Lippage is at times an issue with large format tile. There are standards to be met but the above questions should be answered first.

  • eric coleman
    12 by 24 he laid 10 full tiles and 5 cut .. it not the tile being warped from manufacture issue they are high end porcelain some are good
  • PRO
    Dragonfly Tile & Stone Works, Inc.

    Lippage is a condition when one edge of a tile is higher than the adjacent tile, giving the finished surface an uneven appearance. According to ANSI A137.1, when a pressed floor and porcelain tile is installed using a grout joint between 1/16” to less than 1/4”, the allowable lippage is 1/32” (about the thickness of one credit card). I would not accept that degree of lippage.

  • eric coleman
    I can visually see where the tile is lower in corner and higher at the other end like it wasn’t set correctly some are perfect . He use this system but if he would have set a tile check it add or remove some adhesive I think it would have turn out better
  • Bruce in Northern Virginia

    You need to have the right tile installer for large format tiles. The typical installer for smaller tiles will spread thin-set over a fairly wide area, lay down a half dozen tiles, and then carefully push them into place and line them up. There is enough play in the thin-set to be able to even out the height of all the tiles and reduce the lippage because the tiles are relatively small.

    However, the process for large tiles must often be done by installing one tile at a time and carefully building up thin-set at the right areas to limit lippage on all sides. It definitely takes more time and skill to allow for all the floor variations because the large size tile is not very forgiving.

    Bruce

  • PRO
    GreenDesigns

    All tiles are warped. It's inevitable. The firing process induces it. Looks like he tried the Raimondi wedges to control it. It's not my favorite. But he should have done better than that.

    Where did you find this guy? Sounds like you're hiring the trades individually? Or is there a GC who is doing the hiring? Is there not a designer involved as Project Manager?

  • eric coleman
    He on a list of contractors from my fixture supplier frank Webb .. all the names from my tile supplier best tile where book 3 to 8 weeks out..
  • PRO
    GreenDesigns

    Anybody good is 2-8 months out. You should have waited.


    Wedi isnt idiot proof. Far from it. You should post the in progress pics to see if ther is more ammunition.

  • mandy_redworth

    Eric - I feel your pain. I have a horrible tile job in my Bathroom as well after being told this tile setter is an artist at his work. Yea, maybe finger painting! I love the floor tiles you chose, would you be able to tell me what they are? Also, do t apologize for wanting your home beautiful. If it bothers you now, it will always bother you. I’m having mine redone. I want peace in my home not irritation every time I take a shower.

  • eric coleman
    Name of tile
    It was just a small simple bathroom didn’t think a designer was necessary.. but next time I will use a designer recommended tiler
  • eric coleman
    Progress pic from the start when I found Sheetrock in the shower area and wedi board cut smaller then the wet area I should’ve stop it then some pics
    Standing water that stays in the drain not even from a shower I was just testing the drain... he say it will evaporate.. none of the water flows to the left side of the linear drain
  • millworkman

    Yikes, as you are aware you have more issues than just lippage.

  • mandy_redworth

    I don't think you need a designer, your choices are lovely. You needed a good installer! I would show him this thread and tell him to fix the issues including replacing what materials he used and wasted. I would be VERY worried about water leaking under the entire job. I'd also check with a tile repair company and see what they would charge to fix the issues and see if your installer would refund you that amount. I'd be afraid of a bigger mess if he tried to do it over.

  • mandy_redworth

    Also, after my crappy installer did my bathroom, I hired HOME DEPOT to do the kitchen and hearth and canceled the original job with him. They were half the price and HD absolutely guarantees their work and wants you to be happy. They will fix anything you are not happy with and if you have problems down the line with leakage, they will fix. You work with them on issues, not the installer. I didn't want to use HD because I thought it was lame. Turns out, I should not have been such a snob about it Half the price and guarantees their work and your happiness - lesson learned for me. I also canceled my floor company and had them do my hardwoods and I LOVE them - 20 year guarantee on material and install. Can't beat it - and this install was 1/4 the price the floor company wanted! Really!

  • PRO
    GreenDesigns

    A designer creates the specifications and standards under which the job will be performed. A designer creates the design documents that show the layout of the space, and the design of the materials, as well as documenting the materials choices and their suitability for the function in the design. You don't end up with a wall tile on the floor, or slipping and breaking your shower glass because someone didn't understand the DCOF.

    I have never seen a homeowner "designed" room document or draw elevations of anything unless they were a former Pro. It usually relies on assumptions of the mental telepathy ability of the installer. And then picks the cheapest installer possible. Only to run into issues down the road.

    Box stores are jokes. They hire worse installers of anyone. They have no understanding of proper waterproofing practices either. That's why Lowes just discontinued their in home remodeling services. Too many lawsuits over shoddy work. HD isn't far behind. They already outsourced things to who knows who in each market.

  • PRO
    GreenDesigns

    You only think you're getting "insurance" with a box store. What's underneath that one year warranty doesn't show up until year 2 or 3. That's when the leaks are undeniable. Good luck going back and asking for someone to fix that mold.

    There are companies that offer lifetime warranties on wet area construction. Because there are systems that will create that. And the companies are reputable, and trained by the manufacturer of those systems. They won't be the cheap guys.

    A half price job never got full price work, ever. You ran towards a red flag instead of away from it. Just like the OP. And THIS is why we see so many bad installs here. It's people talking themselves out of doing a good job in order to save some time, or to save some money,

    Sometimes the half priced work shows up immediately. Those people are fortunate, like the OP. There may be a way to not have to pay for it then. Maybe. It's the stuff that looks good on the surface but that is built incorrectly that will end up costing the most. That's when something needs to be rebuilt as soon as 18 months. That is seen all the time too. Those people have no recourse st all but to pay for the actual full price job then. On top of the half priced job.

  • millworkman

    "There are SO many horror stories of bad installs on here"


    HD is not the end all be all. Just because you had a positive experience doesn't mean they are the cats ass as far as installations either. There are plenty of horror stories out there for HD as well.

  • eric coleman
    Well I’m doing a credit card check and I can get 3 card under the level this is two spots in the main traffic area where you really notice it with shoe on ...it really bad barefoot
  • mandy_redworth

    Hi - I am not sure if this will matter with your installer but here is a website that talks about standards for installs and what they say about lippage. And walking over lippage in bare feet hurts!


    https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/blog/porcelain-tile-installation-standards



  • chiflipper

    I suspect the installer did not use a self-leveler (poured product) beforehand.

    Anybody good is 2-8 months out. So true.

  • PRO
    Norwood Architects

    " The ANSI A108.02 standards say that acceptable lippage for floor tiles with a grout joint width of 1/16" to less than 1/4" is 1/32" plus the allowable inherent warpage of the tile. ... Allowable warpage per ANSI A137.1 depends on the type of tile, but ranges from approximately 1/32" to 3/32". "

  • felizlady
    The floor must be flat before tile is laid. This looks like the floor was uneven or he doesn’t know how to lay tile.
  • geoffrey_b

    As a DIY Engineer, I've installed 13 x 26 tiles in two bathrooms.

    To tell if the tiles are warped - put two tiles back to back - this will multiply the gap X 2 - measure it - report back.

    If the floor is uneven, you must use SLC (self leveling cement) to flatten the floor.

    Large tiles should have only a 1/3 overlap - not 1/2 as he has done.


    Also you need the correct thinset for heavier tiles, and backbutter the tiles.


    Lastly, he didn't use enough TLS (tile leveling system). They should be on all four corners - but that would cost 50% more than putting one in the middle.

  • eric coleman
    Floor was flat and new
  • PRO
    Inspiration Kitchen and Bath

    Curious, what brand of tile was used and where did you get the material? If you don't mind sharing.

  • eric coleman
    Best tile
  • eric coleman
    Store name Best tile

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