Welcome to my world. DS2 has BD, and I don't wish this on anyone.

First off, don't be afraid to talk to your friend about it. More than likely your friend needs to talk to someone other than her dh. Don't act like nothing is going on. Do not let it become an elephant in the room with you two because his (not sure if your friend has a son or daughter) BD is ALL she thinks about right now and will probably always think about.

The next time you're with her ask her how "John" is doing, and if he's started any medication yet. That will open dialogue between you two.

Your friend needs to read as much as she can on BD and read even more. I don't read books on the disorder because no two bipolars are alike and the web is full of information, and a lot of the info comes from bipolar people.

Here's a good website. Bipolar Hope

Other than mood change from normal to angry mania, most BP's are hyper sexual, spend more money than they have, delusions, and I'm not talking about "delusions of grandeur" either. They usually have anxiety and need an anti-anxiety med to take with their psychotropic med.

It can take a very long time to find the right medicine. Most meds make them extremely sleepy so they need to be taken at night, early. Many stop the meds because of side effects.

DO NOT ARGUE DURING A MANIC EPISODE!! They can say some of the weirdest things (delusions) and not remember what they said. Don't disagree during mania because there is no reasoning with them.

Your friend needs to be loaded with info. My son's been diagnosed for over ten years now and I still read up on it.

My heart breaks for my son because he was born with an illness where many people don't have compassion. But many do.

It's also hard for them to keep jobs because of the moods they get in.

I could go on and on. Read read read. And remember, no two bipolars are alike and they don't all have the same symptoms.

Forgot, DS2 has no problem putting my name on medical forms for me to have permission to talk to him with doctor's, etc.

Everybody should take a look at this, it's pretty interesting.

List of famous people with bipolar disorder

Thanks, again for sharing your experiences.

Sueb, there is compliance and accepting help from the parents right now and I hope it remains that way, but it's been all over the map in the last week, so I imagine that could continue until stabilization. I'm sorry you've gone through something similar with your child.

Nannygoat, I'll be cognizant of keeping the diagnosis out of the way of our relationships and how I relate to their child. I know it's a crisis right now but won't always be. That's great advice about being support but not advisor (unless asked). I think I'm pretty good about that, as well as confidentiality, so my friends do tend to tell me things they might not always share. Twenty-five years of professional crisis intervention gave me some good listening practice and skills. My friend already comes over sometimes for a slumber party, some wine and dinner, and the use of the guest room, so that will surely continue.

Blfenton, I'm sorry about your brother, too. I know that cycle of on and off meds with mentally ill people. It's great when people figure that out and convince themselves to stay on their meds. I hope that happens.

Thanks 3katz, glad your family member has been stable for so long. I agree, listening is so important and not everyone is good at it!

Rory, that is sad about your cousin and aunt's situation, but glad it's at a good place now, it seems. It is so true that people are often just on their own to figure this out and reinvent the wheel when it happens in their family. I think we need to revisit laws about intervention when people are making impaired decisions, potentially or actually harmful ones. But that's a whole other discussion.

eta: Dedtired and Oakley posted while I was writing the above.Thank you both.

Ded, I imagine worries of suicide are foremost in my friends' minds right now and I know they are talking with their child about it and have formulated some plans, but nothing is foolproof. I hope that doesn't happen - devastating for all parents and other loved ones.

Oakley, sounds like you've had some rough times, too. Glad your son is willing to let you help/be involved. Thanks for the advice about talking with my friends. We're talking or texting every day - they know I care and there is no fear involved in bringing up the subject in our conversations.

Oakley, thank you for the link to BPHope.com. I will forward it to my family.

Yes, Oakley, I forgot to thank you for that link and also for the list of famous and successful people with BP. Kind of an amazing list. Gives me hope!

So sorry for your friend's child's struggle. It is a struggle because each and every time the person gets their feet under them another wave of the illness knocks them for a loop. There is no normal when you are constantly swept up again and again in either the manic or the depressed part of it. Although there are different kinds of bipolar either one has its great difficulties.

My sister talks openly about her bipolar so if you have any questions it might be a good idea to ask the child who has the illness about their personal experience. Hopefully they will it be in a lucid state at that time.

Mental illness for an adult or child can be harrowing. I was 51/50ed twice in one week back in 2014. I was quite ready to end it all. I can still remember my father's voice talking to my friend Mary, as she was updating my very elderly parents who live in Ireland. For me, being open about it was the best kind of support I could have. That shame that surrounds mental health issues can be infinitely debilitating. Ironically, I worked in mental health, mostly with young people and their parents and also had a few of my own children who also struggled. Being able to acknowledge the illness, talk about the illness, accept the illness, without the shame or guilt, cannot be underestimated. Allow your friend to talk and cry and talk some more. Listen. Be that friend who listens.

And thank you for being that listening friend. Thank you.

Louise, thank you for telling your story. I hope you're doing better. Do you still have mania episodes while on meds? My son does and he's been on several.

Oly, you said, "I know it's a crisis right now but won't always be." It will always be a crisis because being stable all the time isn't guaranteed and most likely doesn't happen. Your friend needs to be aware that when her son is finally "stabilized" that she needs to be prepared for the next episode.

Basically it never ends.

Understand though that there can be varying degrees and this is not a one size fits all. While it can be helpful to compare personal experiences, each individual and experience is unique in it's own way.

I guess my "advice" would be a bit different. You're not family...and, if you were my friend, I would hate for you to ask if I (or my child) "was on medication yet"....

Before and after the worst times, my friends were my escape.

Penny, I so agree. But I am sure Oly knows her friends, and what support her friends need as well

Years ago when I faced unexpected major surgery, I told a few close friends and relatives, but then realized sharing this did NOT help me, So, I waited until right before to tell the rest of the people.

So true about the escape factor. I appreciated the friends who did not know as I could go and have fun etc. without the concerned looks and questions.

And, for the ones that did, although I appreciated their concern, in the weeks leading up, I didn't want to be reminded! But this is just me. I have a SIL that loves attention and will share everything and anything. Different strokes.

I've experienced a lot of the symptoms of bipolar disorder, much more so when I was in my 20s, and then they diminished somewhat as I got older although I still experience them today. I've always considered it to be a chemical imbalance in my body, and I've noticed that diet can have an effect - especially sugar, which should be avoided. I was originally diagnosed as borderline psychotic because I had a lot of paranoid delusions, and I can still have those, especially if I take Claritin or erythromycin. My doctor has told me that paranoid delusions are not supposed to be side effects of these drugs, but I have learned that I am not the only one who experiences these effects. I think my boss is also bipolar, and when we are together, we can get out of control. I do not experience long periods of depression, but I do have periods of mania, and in the past, I would write in my diary during these periods or else write (rather drastic) letters to friends of mine. At one point I started making copies of these letters before I would mail them, and while I felt like I was in a period of hysterical despair while writing them (as well as diary entries), when I would read them later, I would say to myself, "I can't believe I wrote this."

I think the people one surrounds oneself while experiencing this is very important - it can have a calming effect or it can exacerbate the problem. I do have medication that I take for this, but I do not need to take it every day, although I did when I was younger. I still believe that diet is an important consideration that I have not seen discussed much. I also found that reading Kierkegaard or Kafka also had a calming effect on me because they described situations that I could relate to or identify with.

Some medications for bipolar disorder can have side effects that make them relatively useless, and so I believe that it is important to document these and switch to something else if necessary. What works for me is anti-anxiety medication, but this is not normally prescribed for bipolar. I've also found that change of scenery often helps, as well as exercise, although exercise can also trigger manic episodes. I had suicidal thoughts as a teenager, but that was because of my relationship with my father, and once I got away from him, I no longer had them. I also knew back then that I had to be patient and that I would not always be around him.

Thank you, Louise and Lars for sharing your very personal experiences. I know whatever they figure out for my friend's child, medically, will take some time and trial and error. Some things are already helping, there is a psychiatrist appt very soon, so more specialized fine tuning.

Their child is a very healthy eater - organic, gluten-free, paleo, I think, and does not self medicate with drugs or alcohol (at this point) so hopefully that will continue.

Penny, they do consider me family...I've known them since before their kids were born and have been very close to all of them for years. We do holidays together, etc. I've helped with medical appts when one or the other couldn't be available. We are each other's executors, etc. So it's a close relationship. They would not be offended by any question I'd ask, but I do try to be sensitive.

eld, good point about escape so it's not all they think about. We do fun things together, so I'll make a point of making sure I try to press for that.

Oakley, I hope it won't always be a crisis, even though it could become one at any time. They are very grounded people and will take what comes when it does, without letting the possibilities rule their lives.

Yeonassky, I haven't seen their child yet, but we have a good relationship, so I will heed your advice about just being open about what's going on, if it seems right at the time.

Thank you all, for taking the time to write about this. It helps.

There is a lot of good information here. There isn't a lot I can add. I wanted to mention one thing. My granddaughter was diagnosed with BP in her senior year of high school. She is very self motivated and is in college at Baylor as a freshman. She is many hours from her family and has to take care of all her medical needs pretty much on her own. One thing she did was to get herself declared a special needs student so that she doesn't have to go to class on those days she can hardly drag herself out of bed. Her condition tends to the depression side and she was only going to class some days because it would affect her grades if she didn't. She has had to change doctors, therapists, and medications several times. I know that this probably doesn't apply to your friend's child since she is older but since so many of us are dealing with this I wanted to mention your school may be able to help if you ask.

peaceofmind, that situation doesn't apply to my friend, but I'm glad you posted for others who may find this thread. It's really good information to include here.

My health history is both troubling and interesting. I am heavily medicated in order to keep those suicidal ideations at bay. I cannot take anti anxiety meds because of my history of addiction. Some days the anxiety is the most prevalent. I know that I will never be "cured". I do hope that I can keep this illness in "remission".

A chronic illness in remission.

Eld and Penny, with all due respect, until you are a mother of a child with BD, you don't know how we feel. Having a friend, just ONE friend to talk about this nightmare is a godsend. I don't tell anyone my son is BP. Except for a close friend.

Can you imagine spending the rest of your life in the middle of a nightmare and keeping it to yourself?

BD isn't a temporary illness. It's forever and apparently gets worse with age. Talking about BD is the reason it's becoming less of a stigma now. Every time I hear a celebrity come out and say they're bipolar, I cheer!

Oly, I do hope it won't always be a crisis either, but realistically it will be. That's how BP works. A person can go months and be just fine, then BOOM! It's the nature of the beast.

A good example is when DS has been stable for weeks and I'd wake up to the sound of a slamming bedroom door. I knew what was in store & my heart starts rapidly beating.

Before he was diagnosed we brought him home from college, one semester away from being a senior, and we heard this pounding from his room over and over. We ran to his room and he was using his hands demolishing his DVD player. The next day we had him at a therapist.

Bipolar mania never goes away. It will be back. Your friend needs to be aware of this.

She also needs to know that the meds will need to be adjusted every now and then.

One bp med caused my son severe mania. Go figure.

Louise, can someone keep a low dose of anxiety meds for you? DS was addicted to drugs too, which we now know is common, but his anxiety can cause a manic episode. He's been really good at taking them only for his nerves. Pharmacies won't give an early refill and he knows how important they are for his moods.

I wish you nothing but peace. I'd hug you if I could. :)

My best friend's son is in his early 40's. Others have covered most of what I've seen or know about through discussions, but here are a few twists.

The son is often non-compliant with meds. Sometimes it's because he doesn't think he needs them. Other times, it's because they make him feel strange. That's hard to sort out. Is it because of his illness (drug is actually fine) or is there a strange side effect? As Lars pointed out, just because a side effect isn't listed for a drug doesn't mean that it isn't real. Also, some drugs just stop working. Each of these has caused multiple hospitalizations and involuntary commitments over the years.

Health care professions cannot share information with the parent unless the adult patient consents. This has caused enough problems that my friend has told the son that he is going to have to move to a group home rather than continue to live with her. (I don't think that will actually happen, but it would be better for both of them if it did. IMO.)

As a supportive friend, it's important to remember that people don't do things until they are ready - no matter how obvious it is to you that action is needed. It took years for my friend and her husband - intelligent and pragmatic people - to acknowledge the degree of their son's illness. I was at their home for dinner, and the son was psychotic (again) in ways that would be obvious to anyone. The husband took me aside after dinner and asked if I noticed anything different about the son. Huh?! It was a tactful, but difficult conversation.

Thanks, Moxie. I believe my friends have a pretty realistic view of what's happening with their child's behavior. I know they know they won't have control over what he does. I'm just hoping for the best for all of them.

Mtn, I so agree. I'm grateful to all who have contributed.

Oakley, for whatever reason, knowing that my psychiatrist can prescribe them is enough for me right now. If the anxiety is acting up, I have "a routine". And I know it will soon pass. In all honesty, my Leo (doggie) gets me through. And hearing my granddaughters voice, telling me I am her Special Grandma :-)

For me, the most important piece is acceptance. Both within myself and from others. My ex husband blamed me over and over. Both for physical and mental illnesses. To him, it was always about me getting too much attention. I so desperately didn't want that attention. Even now I hide as much as I can from others.

I am hoping you have some support too. Being a mama to a grown person is still being a mama. When your child is suffering, you are suffering too. I hope you have that "safe place" to vent and scream. And to cry. In acceptance, there is profound loss. I hope you have someone to hold that loss.

((((Penny)))) I'm sorry you see your survival as a failure. From what you give on these forums, I see it as a success. Probably more so to the people who love and know you.

Olychick, that's a very sweet thing to say. Stop making me cry with your sweetness, now :)

I'm usually quiet about the whole thing (although it doesn't bother me at all to share) and this thread isn't about me, but my experiences were questioned...

You'll do whatever you feel is right between you and your friend. Nobody can tell you what that is. Just don't forget that it's okay to distance yourself occasionally to recharge your own batteries. It can become very intense and draining if you don't.

Penny, I feel for you. and for all the others who deal with mental illness themselves or in the family. I have a son with mild autism and I can never take anything for granted. It’s nto the same as BD but you never know when he might be in a crisis or when he may get into a situation he can’t handle or when he may offend someone who doesn’t understand (or even if they know his condition, doesn’t have empathy). My anxiety levels are constantly high. When he is not home and the phone rings, i panic. Every single time.

Thank you nutsaboutplants. I do feel for you. In a way, it's much more difficult for family members...

I know you haven't slept well in years and that's probably the least of your issues. Would be nice though, right?

My heart goes out to everyone who's shared their struggles, either their own or those of loved ones. I can share 2 experiences. First, an acquaintance who I socialize with a few times a year has a daughter who was diagnosed with BD while in college. The details I know from another friend (not by gossip but genuine concern) and the biggest obstacle is that the parent has no medical or legal rights for the daughter. The daughter is very promiscuous in her manic phases and the mother is worried, on top of the BD itself, that her daughter will be raped, drugged, contract a disease, or become pregnant. The parents have no medical or legal rights over what the daughter does. The daughter is 22 now, but even a mentally and physically healthy 22-year-old is still a child to me. My family has a thread of mental illness and my adult siblings and I have made it a point to get our kids, once they turn 18, to sign over medical power of attorney and other legalities (sorry, I don't have the exact legal terms offhand) over to parents. Many mental illnesses will manifest in one's 20s. Especially seeing as how we're keeping our children on our insurance policies this isn't unreasonable to expect of them.

Olychick, I don't ask my acquaintance about her daughter. But my friend, who is closer to her, just asks how the daughter is doing. That simple question is enough. If the parent wants to talk, she will. If she doesn't want to talk about it, she'll reply, "She's fine." And move on. Just a question, showing your concern, will be very much appreciated I'm sure.

Penny, I have been there. And sometimes still am. Sending you love and strength.

Nutsaboutolants that sounds like PTSD. People who have repeatedly being exposed to highly traumatic events begin to react in the fight or flight response sometimes without any real reason. Personally childhood traumas caused me to withdraw in other words take flight. I have been challenging that over the years a bit more each year. It has helped. I no longer jump at every shadow only every 4th or 5th shadow. I stand in the situations and live with the results of my imperfections.

The swinging between a manic mood and a black mood of a bipolar person is very very difficult to manage with medication it seems. At least it has been for my sister.

My sister has attempted suicide several times. She did die one time. Thank goodness she was revived. She told me later that there was no real point in attempting suicide as she saw that her life essence would go on regardless of what she did. She wanted to ensure that her existence would end and found out exactly the opposite. She didn't really describe what she saw. She was just extremely impacted by it.

After much soul-searching she chose to have electric shock therapy. Now she describes her suicidal tendencies as a distant thought. She is on mood altering medication still and the current medication seems to be working better than others she's been on. It helps the highs to be less high and the lows to be almost manageable.

Penny, I 'm sorry for what you're going through, it's tough. Don't you have just one person you confide in? I'm not talking about a spouse if you're married. It's nice to have someone ask me how my son's doing, and mean it.

You have to know that none of this is your fault. A lot of mental illness is from genetics. I knew my undiagnosed late FIL was a mean and "crazy" sob but had no idea he was bipolar until I put the pieces together when my son was diagnosed. I'd never heard of BD at the time.

I have PTSD and am depressed because of DS's bd. My family has no idea though. I'm good at hiding it if I'm not alone. Which is why I have a friend to lean on.

Regarding what I told Oly about asking her friend if the doctors found a med for the son, I stand by that. Someone with bd takes meds. Period. It's not a secret and the meds are key to making their illness a bit better. It's not an intrusive question at all because of Oly's close relationship with her friend. If her friend doesn't want to go there, fine. If she does, she has Oly to talk to, to get things off her chest that she may want to keep from her spouse.

Many times a friend is much easier to lean on than a spouse because the spouse is also hurting.

Oakley...You don't know what I do, or do not do. Or who I do, or do not talk to. You're making assumptions again...

What works for you might not work for Oly's friend and you should at least consider that your way is not the best and only way for those who are NOT you.

Yeonassky, I'm glad your sister is doing better...so interesting about the changes she's felt since her near death experience. I'm glad they are good changes.

I think lots of us can relate to the ptsd because of trauma. Maybe in some cases (like mine), not an actual diagnosis, but ptsd-like symptoms in response to certain things and situations. I commend you for facing your ptsd and getting a bit of control/relief. It's really hard.

As I am reading this thread a thought has surfaced for me. Maybe even a fairly positive one :-) Acknowledging my own mental illness and (still working on) acceptance of it, has humbled me. I was never that judgemental of others to start with and dealing with my own very broken brain has made me even less so. Solutions come in so so many forms. Some of my own solutions are pretty weird to be honest. But they work for me. I am sure that all of us have differing ways we deal with differing situations. For whatever reason, my children's challenges don't freak me out. That's just who I am. I also think that I dealt with THIER diagnosis so I wouldn't have to fully look at my own.

Oakley sees it very differently. And Penny too.

The one thing that worries me is that staying quiet, only maybe sharing it with one other person, may not be the most healthy for any of us. With absolutely no malice, my parents were never comfortable discussing *this*, with anybody. My father struggled and I am certainly my father's daughter.

I really hope that all of us reach out as best we can. Love and connection may not solve every problem but it sure gives us a better shot :-)

Thank you, Louise. Wise words and perspective. I'm not sure how I'd feel or react if it were me or my own child, as far as disclosing or reaching out. I owe my friends the respect of honoring their request for confidentiality at this time. They may feel differently in the future. I spoke with my friend today and mentioned a couple of things that were posted here, which she found helpful, so I'm very thankful for all the sharing that has taken place in this thread.

Arcy, I'm not sure where your info comes from but where on earth is mental illness considered a lifestyle choice??!!!

(She's not referring to who you think she's referring to.)

I've deleted my comments. Not wasting my precious energy on trolls today.

Just an update on my friend, since a spammer brought this back to life. Their son continues to worsen, refuses meds and is captured by paranoia that he's being tracked by the gov't and everyone is out to get him. He moved to another state and is currently out of contact. It's heartbreaking, as I'm sure other families dealing with this know. I always ask about him, if there's been any contact, etc. Sometimes they want to talk, sometimes they just don't have anything more to say, but that it's killing them.

Teeda, I hear you. I think that is the same place I've landed. It doesn't want to talk, it doesn't want to have a calm rational discussion, it just plans to spew venom and then it always runs away. So there's no point in replying because you're wasting time.

I don't fault other people for trying either, but for me....I've given up. I just can't wade into its echo chamber and wade around anymore.

Oly, I’m so sorry to hear that heart-wrenching update. I hope that someday things will get better, and they find what peace they can in the meantime.

Oh Oly. I'm so sorry. (Your update and my reply above cross posted....)

My BFF had a child (well, young adult really - early 20s) go through a drug-fueled criminal phase and it almost did her in. Almost did them both in, actually. Child would fall off the radar for months in similar ways. I'm not saying drug abuse is exactly the same - just that the feelings of helplessness, fear, etc. as a parent in similar situations was so heartbreaking. All I could do was let my friend know I was honored to be her nonjudgmental listening safe space.

Yes, I'm sure having an addicted child is very similar in many ways. Luckily, their son has never used drugs; he was 'straight edge' in high school and I am confident he won't ever use. This has really upped my compassion towards all the people I see living on the streets here, mostly mentally ill and/or drug addicted. I'm sure many of them have families who are worried sick about them.

I'm so sorry, Oly. That's heartbreaking, and I can only imagine the helplessness they feel.

I'm so sorry to hear your update Olychick. An adult child with mental illness and/or addiction (which often has a base in mental illness) is one of the worst things than can in a family, I think, especially because the stigma around mental illness is still so prevalent. Unfortunately this may to families feeling the need to carry all the burden themselves. I am sure your friends feel very blessed to be able to share safely with you, when they choose to do so.

Oly, I'm so sorry to read your update. The paranoia may be usual. It's no better for my friend and her son but she does know where he is. He's spent more of his adult life in hospitals than independently. He's admitted now, for at least the last year. When he's taking his meds and is closer to reasonable and cooperative, they can see him - 1 hour visits. Medicaid, he's exhausted all resources and insurances.

It does put a different slant on the homeless. I can't imagine without parents fighting for him and doing all they can to intervene where he might be right now. It surely wouldn't be safe behind locked hospital doors - when even that is month to month. Our mental health system needs an overhaul....it's only recently he is court ordered to take just two of his medications, many months it was his right to refuse.

All I could do was let my friend know I was honored to be her nonjudgmental listening safe space.

I am sure that is a huge gift. I will be thinking of that phrase; it's a good one.

Oly, I am so sorry to hear that. There are no great answers to our mental health crisis, but I do think we can and should do better.

I am so sorry Oly that your friends and their child are not in a better place than last time you posted. While I have no sage advice, a friend of mine has a sister who has been on the streets for many years due to untreated mental illness (bipolar disorder I think, but I could be misremembering). After a long time of bouncing in and out of "the system", she has recently voluntarily gone into a longer term treatment facility and it seems like there is some hope for her. I am going to hold out hope for your friends that somehow this young person finds their way to help and treatment as well.

Oly I'm sure you know but the sense of isolation when you have an ill child can be overwhelming. Staying in contact with her is the best gift you can give and as Ally De says, a nonjudgmental safe listening space. If your friends have not been in contact with NAMI it's a gentle suggestion you could make. They may have a local chapter. I had a friend here who was very involved and it's part of what held her together with a mentally ill adult son living on the street. I'm sorry they are living in this nightmare with him. It's heartbreaking.

I see NAMI was already mentioned

Yes, they are in contact (or were at the beginning) with NAMI. Also therapists to help them navigate and deal with their own issues around his illness. I think the tightrope to walk has been between loving/supporting but not rescuing and enabling. It's tough.

Another factor to consider in treatment is diet. I have to be careful with what I eat, or I can have some bipolar symptoms, although this was more the case when I was much younger.

Also, it can be dangerous for bipolar people to be around each other, as this can exacerbate the symptoms because they reinforce them with each other.

Here is a list of some writers who were bipolar, but it is a short list. I frequently identify with writers who are bipolar and feel that they express my thoughts and feelings, which makes my thoughts feel vindicated and more normal. I particularly identified with Kafka, but also with Kierkegaard, whom many regard to have been manic-depressive. I think Dostoevsky may have been also.

Reading these authors may help you understand bipolar experiences.

I went through extensive psychotherapy in college and a few years afterwards. It was difficult learn which drugs would help me, but for me, Librium was the most helpful. However, my doctors have told me that I should no longer take it, but I think also that I seem to have grown out of my need for it, and so I am pretty much okay. The worst thing I have now is nightmares and difficulty sleeping. Gabapentin helps me with that.

My nephew was diagnosed as a psychopath, which is much worse, and he refuses to take his medications. He also believes that he can heal people by laying his hands on them.

Chemicals can definitely affect personalities, which is one of the reasons that diet is important. Certain medications, such as erythromycin and Claritin can cause me to have paranoid delusions and to appear borderline psychotic, except that I can realize what is causing the delusions and stop taking whatever is causing them. My doctor said that Claritin is not supposed to cause this, but I am not the only person who has this reaction to it.