rekha_anandkumar

Madame Alfred Carrier and zephirine Drouhin

I have a pergola, around 12' by 18' or bit larger. I want to put on a couple of climbing roses . The area gets morning sun, but once they reach the top, they can get out full TX sun.
Fragrance, especially classic rose, or musk etc is a must. Rebloom also is a must. I like cupped or fully double blooms. Cannot ball in wet weather which we have through the year. I dont think I would be able to deadhead on top. Can occassionally prune or train as needed.
I am considering
Madame Alfred Carrier and zephirine Drouhin, any thoughts? Alternates that I should thing about?
What is the fragrance and rebloom like on these?
Thanks!

Comments (46)

  • Lola Tasmania

    I have Mme Alfred Carriere and she has a lovely perfume and is a great rebloomer. She has no black spot and is very healthy. Her canes are pliable so they can be trained easily, and she has very few thorns.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Lola Tasmania
  • Melissa Northern Italy zone 8

    MAC in my climate gets a bit more disease than some roses, but blackspot isn't a problem here. I agree with Lola that she's a great rose and would likely meet your requirements. My plant is huge, the fragrance is wonderful, she has flexible canes and few thorns, an easy rose to work with. I don't know about Zephirine. Another variety you might consider, if you're interested in alternatives, is 'Crepuscule'.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Melissa Northern Italy zone 8
  • Perma n’ Posies/9A FL

    I’m planting a MAC in a few days, to climb a carport cover. From what I’ve read, she’ll take care of that quite well all by herself. If you have humidity, she’ll probably be healthier than ZD.

    Crepuscule is another great recommendation. I’d also suggest Devoniensis CL or one of the climbing Cochets (Pink or White) if you can tolerate thorns in this location. :-)

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Perma n’ Posies/9A FL
  • mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9

    I am always touting Renae as a climber. She is full of roses, hips and is thornless. She has incredible health and will cover your area with beautiful roses. Spent flowers drop off cleanly and she can take the heat and was bred for disease resistance. She is an amazing rose. She was named after a little girl who died. She is an older rose and is available on its own root from Burlington nursery.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9
  • Paul Barden

    I have never met a climber that got both Mildew and Blackspot with as much enthusiasm as 'Zephirine Drouhin'. It defoliated completely from disease in my climate, and when it did regrow some leaves in August, they were crippled by Mildew. Of course, it MUST grow well somewhere, in certain circumstances, but not here, and not for me. 'Mme. Alfred Carriere' on the other hand is a very sturdy, reliable and (generally) healthy rose.


    I second "mustbnuts"s recommendation for 'Renae', which would be absolutely spectacular in your climate (it was bred in Southern California and it loves the heat). It has vigor, great health, wonderful fragrance, and is generous with bloom. Alas, it has no thorns, so if you were hoping for a thorny rose, you will be sorely disappointed.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Paul Barden
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Thank you Paul and mustbenuts...I dont see Renae available anywhere except rouge valley. I will search for it more. Zephirine Drouhin off my list!


    Eta: I emailed Burlington regarding availability, many thanks!

  • HU-472323481

    Rekha, ditto for me for what Paul said about ZD, I live an hour away from Houston and she comp defoliates from black spot after her big spring flush and she is a one time bloomer for me too. I have her in the back of my property so I have left her alone but she was up closer in a more prominent spot she would be gone. If I get the opprotunity t o plant another climber it’s going to be Mac and Setina. Give the ARE a call too, they are very helpful in recommending roses for different climates in Texas.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked HU-472323481
  • summersrhythm_z6a

    MAC repeats much better than ZD, I’d pick MAC.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked summersrhythm_z6a
  • pat_bamaz7

    I still have my ZD although she blackspots badly here now that I don't spray....she stays for the incredible old rose wafting fragrance of her spring flush which comes earlier than most of my other roses and lasts for weeks. Mine does give me a few blooms sporadically throughout the summer and a small flush in fall, but nothing like the spectacular spring show. If you're looking for good repeat bloom, ZD isn't the rose you want unless you intermingle it with a good repeater (and have low blackspot pressure).



    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked pat_bamaz7
  • Lynn-in-TX- Zone 8b (Central TX)

    Another vote for Renae. The long pliable canes should be easier to train than that of some climbers. I can also attest to the heat tolerance but have no experience with fungal diseases.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Lynn-in-TX- Zone 8b (Central TX)
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Burlington nursery has Renae, but with shipping, the cost is super high...not sure if anyone else has her or not. Any other options I can try? If not, I'll get her for fall planting.

  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Would either Souvenir de Mme. Leonie Viennot or Lamarque work in this setting? I've been browsing available roses!! It is super annoying to find something you think is perfect and it end up being difficult to get a hold of.

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

    I would think any climbing tea or tea-noisette would work. I would personally choose Reve d'Or, but it does not have a very noticeable fragrance and that might be a deal breaker for you.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Thank you Ingrid, yes fragrance is very important in general, and particularly for this area as this is our main outdoor area where we have seating etc.

  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Souvenir de Mme. Leonie Viennot seems to be a once bloomer per ARE website. Sigh. Search is still on

  • Paul Barden

    Burling is probably the last place you will find 'Renae', so its Burling or nothing. (Angel Gardens HMF page suggests they offer it, but there is no evidence of it in their catalog) Its such a superior climber for a warm climate that its worth the effort/expense, IMO.


    I'm puzzled to hear you say Burling is too expensive. In my experience, her catalog is quite a bit cheaper than anyone else.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Paul Barden
  • mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9

    I am surprised as well as she charges the least I have found for mailing roses. She uses the going postal rates. I just ordered three roses from her (granted I am close--only 60 or so miles away) but have found her mailing rates to be very reasonable and cheaper than anyone else. She sells great roses. I have yet to have one not thrive from her.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9
  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR

    Burling does seem to be very much a bargain for here. Rose Petals, OTOH, is expensive for here being all the way from Florida, and it is also great and well worth it for treasures that last decades. I think they are all bargains for the joy they bring us.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • FruitCat (GA 7b)

    Ditto on Zephy D. being a disaster (blackspot) and only sporadic rebloomer; love her but she needs to stay in her (hiding) place of pride most of the year :) Ditto on Mme Alfred Carrier, here in Atlanta it's growing well on an arch and rebloomed well last year (2 yrs in the ground). I was going to suggest Crepuscle too based on reputation; mine's too young to speak from experience. In its list of noisettes, Rose Petal Nursery has a "Davis Store Rose" (sold out, not in the HMF database) that claims to be thornless, fragrant and a repeater. Can anyone speak to that one?

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked FruitCat (GA 7b)
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Burling said $27.30 for inspection for plants shipped to TX from California :(. Add this to the cost of the rose and it is north of $50..

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Yes, Burling just charges USPS flat rate and will trim your roses to fit. She can fit four in a small box. However one is just getting one rose that does add $14 onto the cost. But her roses are so inexpensive.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Vapor, in addition, there is a $27 inspection cost, so if you add all of that, I am having a hard time justifying the price.

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Wow. I've never heard of that unless you're in California. I didn't know Texas had that but I guess it depends where you live. So other roses don't have that inspection fee included?

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Wow. I've never heard of that unless you're in California. I didn't know Texas had that but I guess it depends where you live. So other roses don't have that inspection fee included?

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    I dont know? I had completely stopped trying to grow Rose's in my previous house, there I had ordered fro David Austin, of course based in TX, the only thing that did not die was a don Juan body bag and a lavender tree rose I picked up from Lowes. My backyard was full shade plus huge trees in the barn behind us.


    New house, moved3 yrs ago. tried some from Chamblees, few Austin's that I picked from whole foods. Nothing did well.


    Last year got several from ARE, both in person and mail and they are doing great. This year ordered from them again, from david Austin (3rd time is a charm?) And from roses unlimited, and from Heirloom. No extra charge. I am known to be reckless, but $27 on top of shipping is kinda tough even for me. Anyone else in TX? what is this inspection fee?

  • pat_bamaz7

    Burling has very reasonable shipping to Alabama. I haven't ordered from her this year, but last year there was no inspection fee for shipping here. If Texas has an inspection fee, it would be to make sure plants being shipped into your state aren't bringing in an unwanted disease or bug. I was waiting for Blue Mist from Burling for a couple of years. Finally got big enough to ship last spring. Shipping was $13.65 for up to 4 roses. I ended up getting three from her for a total of $49.05 which included shipping:

    Hello Pat,

    Below is the revised detail costl

    2 Blue Mist @ 9.95 each = 19.90

    1 Sophie's Perpetual @ 15.50

    Priority mail: 13.65

    Total Cost: $$49.05

    Burling of Burlington Rose Nursery


    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked pat_bamaz7
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Paul, I really wish you did not praise Renae so much! Now I really want her but at close to $70 for a single plant, I am not sure!!

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    I guess you'll just have to get more than one rose to make it worth your while! Lol! :-)

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Vapor, sigh...I wish I had the space to put them!! I already got so many this year that I somehow have to squeeze in. Most are going in containers.

  • sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida 9a)

    Thats really good, Pat. I dont remember what shipping was for one rose when I ordered it, but it wasnt bad.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida 9a)
  • Perma n’ Posies/9A FL

    We have the inspection fee for FL too. :-( That’s why I havent ordered from Burlington so far, it was quite expensive for just one rose.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Perma n’ Posies/9A FL
  • Perma n’ Posies/9A FL

    I’m wondering if there’s a citrus link? Just these states? I believe she said it was for the whole shipment, but at that that time she didn’t have any other roses I wanted in stock.

    Also wanted to add that Lamarque is in bloom here almost perpetually and I would think it would be the same for you. The leaves are always a dark healthy green. Or what about Mel’s Heritage? I’m putting that one on my swing pergola which is being built right now, and it’s been very happy here too. :-)

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Perma n’ Posies/9A FL
  • Lola Tasmania

    Rekha - I have Renae and while she is beautiful when the blooms are fresh she looks messy when they turn white/brown. I have it somewhere that I have to go out of my way to see it so I can ignore it when it is past its best. It is not worth $70 and the hassle of ordering it IMO, but if you come across it by accident somewhere, or if you can get a cutting, it would be a nice addition to your garden.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Lola Tasmania
  • Cathy Kaufell

    Grow Zephrine Druhin as a large shrub. My most favorite climber is Lavender Lassie.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Cathy Kaufell
  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)
    Cathy , your LL is absolutely beautiful. It is definitely a masterpiece in your garden with. such beautiful landscape.
    How old is your LL ?

    jin
    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    So, I asked ARE for suggestions and Mike recommended Madame Alfred Carriere. Also Buff Beauty which is out of stock or Lamarque.

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR

    Annie Laurie McDowell would be wonderful too, if only you could find her. Mike at ARE would know what would work from his holdings for sure.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Can't find Annie Laurie McDowel either. I dont understand why these Rose's that seem to be so highly recommended are not available more widely.


    Was trying to look into the inspection issue, but there is not much on the internet. At least nothing showed up in a casual search. We have very strict restrictions on citrus, they dont even allow you to buy from the nearby county. But it is well publicised and well known. For Roses, I thinks its it's only for plants coming from California.


    Speaking about citrus, my grapefruit and tangerine are in full bloom and my yard smells heavenly.





  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Some of these roses, such as ALM were created by individuals as opposed to large commercial concerns with correspondingly large distribution channels. Small nurseries just don't have the capacity to propagate or advertise some of their more unusual holdings. ARE has many that they have bred for the TX heat so it's really a great suggestion. That said, I do wish Paul Barden's were carried by a few other nurseries. Texas A&M received Mr. Moore's holdings upon his death so perhaps you could check with them for another source of Renae.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • K S 8b Seattle

    Annie Laurie McDowell is a rose that you'd have to get on a waiting list for.

    http://www.angelgardens.com/ecommerce/roses-by-type/annie-laurie-mcdowell.html

    I know Kim is sending/has sent budwood to Steve at Wisconsin Roses, but his plants are budded onto multiflora -- maybe not the best for your area (needs slightly acidic soil). http://www.wiroses.com/ 


    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked K S 8b Seattle
  • debbym, Tempe, AZ Zone 9

    ZD is huge in my yard, grows and grows and is very healthy, but very few blooms and I've had her for four years or so. I'm tempted to take her out since she takes up so much room and doesn't bloom much. I hate removing healthy plants though, so we shall see.


    Burlington also charges the inspection fee for roses sent to Arizona and although she had some roses I wanted, I declined to order from her due to shipping and inspection fee expenses.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked debbym, Tempe, AZ Zone 9
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    I did ask Mike about ZD, and he said it rarely repeats all the way to fall.


    I hear you about removing healthy plants, I have never done it, but in a couple of years, I will have no choice as I run out of space.

  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    So, I did get Renae from roses unlimited, she looked great when I got her. In the ground, she has a lot of blackspot and lost almost half her leaves. I hope it improves over time :(

  • Lola Tasmania

    Rekha - I planted Bella Rosa next to my Renae and BR is nearly naked from black spot but Renae is healthy. When I first saw the BS I sprayed every rose I have except the climbers because I figured they are too big to spray so if they aren't healthy enough to go it alone then they should not be there. Renae was not sprayed and she is 3 years old. Maybe yours will grow out of it.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked Lola Tasmania
  • HU-284226487


    I suggest Mac with Reve d'Or,

    Lux.

    Rekha A 9a Houston area thanked HU-284226487
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    I have Jude the Obscure on the other side, and Jude is dying yay! He never bloomed more that 2 to3 blooms a year and this summer was very harsh, most canes are dead. I don't think this is a rose for the heat, he may do well in cooler climates. Anyhow, my Renae is almost completely defoliated, and is on one side of the pergola, thinking of removing jude and trying Mac. Once you get on top of the pergola, its it's really harsh full sun, wonder if a) Mac is blackspot resistant enough to get there, and b) once she gets there,can she take the brunt of the full TX sun...

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